Since no one seems to have posted yet: Final LB fight

Please stop making content for the panzies in this game that came when the strategy for fighting Maat was as wide spread as how to tie your shoe, and make it for those of us that have been the pioneers of this game -_-

well now... I think this is the single most opposed development ever stated by the dev team. I certainly hope they change things or it'll be another BST thread issue.

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Originally Posted by thania

a suggestion i made on FFXIAH forum :

square-enix will make it easy to please all the mass of players
but as mentioned earlier we will loose the pleasure to get a real challenge and a special last instant like the maat fight was

there's something square could do !!!

after this last genkai ( for the mass of people) adding a last challenge @ 99 versus a master of our own job

for example for sam a fight versus noillurie
for drk a fight against zeid etc etc ...

the fight would be hardcore and will give you a special item 99 for your job or a new job ability

and for hardcorehardcore gamers finishing fights against the 20 heroes with the 20 jobs will allow you to gain a mega special item like : maat cap II

what do you think about it ?

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I'd suggest you suggest your suggestion in a dedicated suggestion thread, as it may go much un-seen here! ^^;


As for the lowering of the difficulty level of the topic battle, I did see if coming and I do think it is a good choice. I don't think it should require 6 characters or so. I am up for a challenge but what it was is just too much, me thinks. I still disagree with the quest in itself a bit, though. Having a fight was also a rather obvious decision but I bet many expected Maat to be involved. I still might hope a little that it is Maat in disguise but eh, I don't know...

As for alleviating congestion through time-sinks... I got only a few words of something many might call 'rage', and that is Treasures of Aht Urhgan missions and Mercenary Rank quests... I don't think I need to use any power words to describe the feelings towards 'waiting for the next day (earth- or/and game-time).

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

I'd suggest you suggest your suggestion in a dedicated suggestion thread, as it may go much un-seen here! ^^; .

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ok ! thank for the advice i created a topic here : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...659#post237659 thats resumes everything

There was a post in japanese as a response to this I believe :x has over 130 likes already

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...515#post237515

Google isn't making much sense out of it :confused:

Camate we needs you! /o/

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Originally Posted by thania

ok ! thank for the advice i created a topic here : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...659#post237659 thats resumes everything

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Again, love the suggestion Thania. I hope SE gets to take a look at that and considers it. Something special at 99 would be nice to have.

1 BC for everyone in the whole server.

Serious SE, you can't be that brainless. Let's say that on avg there are 6k players on each server that will want to do the LB. And let's say for now, assumed that everyone already gotten the item (it's just another bottleneck). And let's for agrument that all 6k players all line up (it wont in reality). So 6k/6 members/party = 1k parties of ppl who has to enter and let's say for worst case it's 30min allocation for each party. So that would be 1k parties * 30min ~ 30k mins. That would be 500 hrs or 20.8 days of full non stop entry of groups of 6 players 24 hrs a day around the clock. The reality would be much much worst with small groups of people per party. And what if others want to use the BC for other use such as Missions?

Someone in SE need to seriously buy themselves a calculator or better yet, LEARNED what is realistic and what isn't. At least make the damn BC instanced.

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Originally Posted by Kalilla

There was a post in japanese as a response to this I believe :x has over 130 likes already

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...515#post237515

Google isn't making much sense out of it :confused:

Camate we needs you! /o/

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Looking at google translate this might read that it will be similar to the old first 3 promy fights. You can go straight in and fight the hard mob or take time to farm items to use during the fight to make it easier.

As usual the english speaking community get left in the dark while what actually will happen get agreed on the jp forum.

I'm reading it as saying there will actually be two difficulties to the fight (or rather, two different fights), and it will take less grinding to get the item to enter the harder version of the fight. That, or it's like the Shantotto fight where more grinding gets you buffs (or debuffs for him) that make it easier.

Seems reasonable, but Google Translate's still pretty inscrutable so we'll just have to wait and see what Camate says.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and comments regarding our previous update.

Based on the opinions across all regions, we have decided to make multiple versions of the battlefield. Along with this change, we’ll need a few more days for development and testing, but we’re working diligently to get this in for the version update.

I’d like to outline details for the two items that will be used in conjunction with the battlefield.

• The item required to enter the battlefield
We’ll be preparing a new item that will be necessary to enter the battlefield. It will be possible to obtain this item from high level monsters in each area and the drop rate is quite high.

• The item that can be used to lower battlefield difficulty
Previously we said that we’re making adjustments so that you can win without having a full party of six members, but you can take this to mean that you’ll need the enfeeble item to achieve this.

This enfeebling-type of item exists for two reasons:
The first is the player’s choice to increase their chances of winning.
The second is to set up a countermeasure so as time passes it will be possible to clear the battlefield with fewer people. Note that it will take a bit of leg work in order to obtain the enfeeble item.

In other words, there will be two methods for challenging this battle. In exchange for spending some time preparing for the battle, you’ll have the option to increase your chances of winning. If you deem it unnecessary to obtain this item, you can take on the battle without spending any time preparing ahead of time.

In the case that you fail the battlefield, you will not need to re-obtain the entry item. Instead we might make it so you will need merit points or High Kindred’s Crests, but we are currently making adjustments in the direction of lowering the amount of merit points required to challenge it again.

Thank you Camate, please please make it so that there is the hard mode and easy mode. For those who love challenge can go for the hard mode, others who actually have real life things to attend, can choose easy mode :) Please cut down the leg works.... no need to punish people who have other things to do, to do more things that take hours and hours...

You want easy mode? Work for it.

One of the times I love the devs.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

You want easy mode? Work for it.

One of the times I love the devs.

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FFXI's always been pretty good about giving the sense of rewarding preparation as much as execution.

This will also have the effect of staggering congestion even more, so cheers to that.

I do enjoy the way they are going about it, kinda reminds me of CoP where you would/could take the time to obtain the enfeebles needed to make the BCNM easier whether it would be the empty memories for promyzion, the liquid for the mammets, scales for the wyrm fight, salt for the bomb etc. While for some it may have felt necessary to have for others they may have been able to do it without obtaining said items and that's the fun in it all. if you want the challenge don't obtain the item, if you want to make it easier then take the additional time to obtain it.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

You want easy mode? Work for it.

One of the times I love the devs.

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They want you to work for it either way. Hard mode - do it over and over and die over it, Easy mode - work for the items and if you still loose, spend your merit and keep repeating till you succeed. At least they are giving us options so both type of gamers can get some enjoyment out of it. I wonder if more people choose the hard mode or the easy mode.

Stupid to waste all that time to develop 2 versions when the big killer will be congestion. Develop a version for 6 burning circles instead.

o great more boring running around clicking on 20 ??? spread all over the maps, did you not learn from the 3 xpack's how rubbish this was. damn what am i talking about its se they never learn from anything

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Stupid to waste all that time to develop 2 versions when the big killer will be congestion. Develop a version for 6 burning circles instead.

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No one is forcing you to get level 99 as fast as you possibly can once the servers open up. You'll have all the benefits of getting level 99 in 2-3 days after than you would get when the servers open up. If you know there is going to be congestion the obvious solution is not to do it right when the servers open.

Waiting a day or two will help and probably make it more enjoyable. If you can't wait a few days and do other new content instead while you wait then there should be no surprises when trying to get into the battlefield. Sure, the congestion will last for more than just a few days but I think people should try to avoid it for the first day or two anyways.

They already explained why they wouldn't split it up between different battlefields, and the reason isn't stupid either. The battlefield area should be important when choosing the scene to fight this battle.

Eh, someone put some math up that it will take 20 days for everyone to even get in. LOL Cramming the whole server in 1 room is lame.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Eh, someone put some math up that it will take 20 days for everyone to even get in. LOL Cramming the whole server in 1 room is lame.

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If you have to get an item before, then there won't be a whole server in 1 room.

The whole server will be spread around multiple zones fighting the monsters that drop the item. That's going to be the annoying part of the process.

After that then there will probably be 20-30 people in the room.

Plus there will probably be people trying to make the battle easy so they will be spending even more time getting that done.

Also, not sure why it would take 20 days.

In 20 days you can easily have 280,000 battles holding up to 1.7 million players at the most, and at least 140,000 battles with 864,000 players.

You want easy mode? Go on BST, call Gooey Gerard, and spam Dawn Mulsums for an instant win. Good luck, the other 19 jobs!

IE use gil toss to win though im tottally fine with this.

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Originally Posted by Mifaco

You want easy mode? Go on BST, call Gooey Gerard, and spam Dawn Mulsums for an instant win. Good luck, the other 19 jobs!

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Yay, finally!! Easy easy breezy mode for instant win :) Good thing I have been stocking on white honey and apkalu eggs, these will come handy when this stupid limit break comes. Now just need to lvl beast on my other two characters. I wonder if summoner can also do it with dawn muslum strategy?

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Stupid to waste all that time to develop 2 versions when the big killer will be congestion. Develop a version for 6 burning circles instead.

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Agreed. They should make a version where you can do the bcnm battle, and another version where you just trade 3 items (and 20 merits) or so with no battles. This way if you want to fight you can do it - if you just rather farm and have 20 merits forfeited, you can do it too with no battles needed. This will cut congestion by a great deal and the bcnm will only be done by those who wants some extra challenge.

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Originally Posted by Kalilla

No one is forcing you to get level 99 as fast as you possibly can once the servers open up. You'll have all the benefits of getting level 99 in 2-3 days after than you would get when the servers open up. If you know there is going to be congestion the obvious solution is not to do it right when the servers open.

Waiting a day or two will help and probably make it more enjoyable. If you can't wait a few days and do other new content instead while you wait then there should be no surprises when trying to get into the battlefield. Sure, the congestion will last for more than just a few days but I think people should try to avoid it for the first day or two anyways.

They already explained why they wouldn't split it up between different battlefields, and the reason isn't stupid either. The battlefield area should be important when choosing the scene to fight this battle.

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You might want to do some real math 1st. Yes, having people running all over to farm the entry item will lessen congestion @ the BC, but it still have the congestion at the farming point. You ever drive in a highway at rush hour where it goes from 3 lanes of not moving to 2 lanes of not moving? Yeah, it's the same extact issue with trying to spread out congestion - you're only pushing matters up/down and not really solving congestion issues.

My post was the one just above Camate's.

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assumed that everyone already gotten the item (it's just another bottleneck). And let's for agrument that all 6k players all line up (it wont in reality). So 6k/6 members/party = 1k parties of ppl who has to enter and let's say for worst case it's 30min allocation for each party. So that would be 1k parties * 30min ~ 30k mins. That would be 500 hrs or 20.8 days of full non stop entry of groups of 6 players 24 hrs a day around the clock. The reality would be much much worst with small groups of people per party. And what if others want to use the BC for other use such as Missions?

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

You might want to do some real math 1st. Yes, having people running all over to farm the entry item will lessen congestion @ the BC, but it still have the congestion at the farming point. You ever drive in a highway at rush hour where it goes from 3 lanes of not moving to 2 lanes of not moving? Yeah, it's the same extact issue with trying to spread out congestion - you're only pushing matters up/down and not really solving congestion issues.

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The access item will drop from every high-level monster in the world. The farming competition will be less than it was with Kindred Crests at the 80 LB last year.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

The access item will drop from every high-level monster in the world. The farming competition will be less than it was with Kindred Crests at the 80 LB last year.

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Still doesn't make things any less congested at the BC at some point. Unless SE going to make the entry item stupidly low in drop rate so that people would be spending a ton of time farming for the item. Either way, you're still looking at a potently long time before all players on the server will be able to get through because the fastest the BC can process through assuming a 6k active players per server is about 20.8 days of 24hr of non-stop BC usage. [See my original post above Camate's for my assumptions that arrive at those numbers. If SE is smart, then they would make this BC instanced and multiple instanced can happen concurrently. Otherwise, there's no other way but everyone having to go through the congested point at some point in time.]

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

Still doesn't make things any less congested at the BC at some point. Unless SE going to make the entry item stupidly low in drop rate so that people would be spending a ton of time farming for the item.

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Who cares? Unless you want to hand in more merits for the LB, congestion's unavoidable. If they couldn't easily instance Dynamis, I am sure as hell not going to be bent out of shape that the can't instance a quest BC I am going to do one time and then forget about.

At any rate, the BC congestion will be thinned out not by people getting the initial required drop, but by jumping through whatever farming hoops are necessary for the easy mode I assure you 95% of the playerbase will go for without a second thought.

Good afternoon fellow players, casuals and elitists alike. I stand humbly before you to offer my words, most will be misspelled, but I ask for forgiveness on that, old brain injury. I have been off for a few days, I made the mistake of criticizing the almighty SE, I must learn to come to terms with the fact that they know all, although ten year olds I coach could have figured out there would be massive backlog if one bc was used, but I digress.

I have been reading comments about the challenge of this fight. It is noble to want to undertake this fight at the highest possible difficulty, but I see very few people here that truly want that. Now I do see many elitists that say they wish that, but is that the real truth?

Focusing on these elite players, I must say this. You hypocrites. Let me explain how this will really play out, and this is not up to debate because this way of doing things have spanned many many years of FFXI on almost every type of content.

These elite players will prepare for battle. Their squires will make sure all their armor is shined and their weapon's edges razor sharp. Time to gather the party. There are many people willing to go to this fight, but the elitist only require specific jobs. No, they cannot just choose any jobs, they must find the set of jobs that will allow them to win this battle as easy as possible, with very little real CHALLENGE. Will the pup and bst get invited, no. How about the dancer that works in the seedy bar living on waistband tips. no. The elitist cannot be seen with such riffraff, because they read in an informative news article that if they go with 4 monks and 2 white mages they will be able to two hour and complete the fight in record time!!

So they ignore all the /tells from all the wrong jobs, and they will gather all the empyrean monks they can find and head up along with some well geared white mages. The fight as expected, posed no challenge to this super setup.

They walk out, heads held high, they have beaten the fight on hard mode. hurrah hurrah the crowd shouts.

That is how it will really play out for all these people shouting for challenge. They will not go up there with a balanced party with a tank, any three damage dealing jobs a healer and support. That would be the real challenge.

Many of you will say, no no no, that is not how it will happen, but history says otherwise.

I bid you goodnight.

Old brain injury indeed.

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Originally Posted by ShadowHeart

nothing personal taken concerned i actually am one of the few who gives free tele's and helps the new comers do the limit breaks i gave up endgame ls's few months back and actually just spend time in social ls's helping new members and up and comers progress and try new things in the game. if we dont teach and help new players as we go then sooner or later there wont be new blood and nothing left for us to do... personally if brings me back to the day remembering the fun and excitement of when i achieved the goals they are attaining. who knows what the future will entail i just think that the option to do it solo should be available and there will be people like myself at 99 who will drag noobs through with bst smn rdm etc for just sheer enjoyment of reliving the battle. But unfortunately in my current server there are many mercenaries who will merely seek to profit from the people who are not patient enough to fight the battle as there are not enough people at their current level to fight it with them with the appropriate cookie cutter jobs.

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Your right and it's a shame some people are that short sighted, I help others for two reasons, the first is because I know how it feels to /shout for hours and get nobody's five-50minutes of help for something they (the veterans standing in jueno unwilling to assist) can afk thru half of it and auto-follow the other half to whatever event said person needs a quick assist on; and the second main reason I help is I see it as an investment. By assisting new players, I am helping to create an experience that they hopefully will enjoy. This enjoyment for them translates into: a) potential help for me down the line when they are a veteran, and b) another player who will stay playing the game I love, which means one more person paying SE, means the game will last that much longer for me.

I cant understand some veterans short sightedness, I love noobs, I hope SE releases this game on the new portable playstation or whatever so more noobs can join. More noobs means the game will last that much longer for the veterans, who some of them don't want to help the noobs. But 11 needs noobs just like baby boomers need young people to goto work and have social security payments from their paycheck deducted.

Hard mode or easy mode..... most peeps will take the easy way out. There's alot of players out there that don't understand what they need to do. All these abby burned noobs don't understand the basics of a party. Hell I got some in my linkshell, and they ask the dumbiest things that they should know if they took the time to level their job. As for the hard mode there will be people that do it that way, like the ones that have been playing this game pre-abby.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Thanks everyone for the feedback and comments regarding our previous update.

Based on the opinions across all regions, we have decided to make multiple versions of the battlefield. Along with this change, we’ll need a few more days for development and testing, but we’re working diligently to get this in for the version update.

I’d like to outline details for the two items that will be used in conjunction with the battlefield.

• The item required to enter the battlefield
We’ll be preparing a new item that will be necessary to enter the battlefield. It will be possible to obtain this item from high level monsters in each area and the drop rate is quite high.

• The item that can be used to lower battlefield difficulty
Previously we said that we’re making adjustments so that you can win without having a full party of six members, but you can take this to mean that you’ll need the enfeeble item to achieve this.

This enfeebling-type of item exists for two reasons:
The first is the player’s choice to increase their chances of winning.
The second is to set up a countermeasure so as time passes it will be possible to clear the battlefield with fewer people. Note that it will take a bit of leg work in order to obtain the enfeeble item.

In other words, there will be two methods for challenging this battle. In exchange for spending some time preparing for the battle, you’ll have the option to increase your chances of winning. If you deem it unnecessary to obtain this item, you can take on the battle without spending any time preparing ahead of time.

In the case that you fail the battlefield, you will not need to re-obtain the entry item. Instead we might make it so you will need merit points or High Kindred’s Crests, but we are currently making adjustments in the direction of lowering the amount of merit points required to challenge it again.

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Ok, now that is a better explaination then what was previously posted, and is acceptable. As long as farming the enfeeblement items isn't a walk in the park and there is some penality for losing the fight, even if it's only 3 merits to redo the fight, then yes that'sd a decent comprimise and we are already light years ahead of the U.S. Government's ability to prepare a bi-partisan balanced budget.

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

You might want to do some real math 1st. Yes, having people running all over to farm the entry item will lessen congestion @ the BC, but it still have the congestion at the farming point. You ever drive in a highway at rush hour where it goes from 3 lanes of not moving to 2 lanes of not moving? Yeah, it's the same extact issue with trying to spread out congestion - you're only pushing matters up/down and not really solving congestion issues.

My post was the one just above Camate's.

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Why think so hard into it? It's not going to be 20 days of congestion, that's ridiculous. I don't care what math you do to prove mine wrong, it's not going to happen.

So what if I threw a few numbers together, it's not going to take 20 days for a whole server to finish.

So what if it's all going to be a single area, I swear some people will complain about anything. You know the first few days to the first week will be crappy, just wait a few days before you start or don't complain about what you're putting yourself through.

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

You might want to do some real math 1st. Yes, having people running all over to farm the entry item will lessen congestion @ the BC, but it still have the congestion at the farming point. You ever drive in a highway at rush hour where it goes from 3 lanes of not moving to 2 lanes of not moving? Yeah, it's the same extact issue with trying to spread out congestion - you're only pushing matters up/down and not really solving congestion issues.

My post was the one just above Camate's.

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

assumed that everyone already gotten the item (it's just another bottleneck). And let's for agrument that all 6k players all line up (it wont in reality). So 6k/6 members/party = 1k parties of ppl who has to enter and let's say for worst case it's 30min allocation for each party. So that would be 1k parties * 30min ~ 30k mins. That would be 500 hrs or 20.8 days of full non stop entry of groups of 6 players 24 hrs a day around the clock. The reality would be much much worst with small groups of people per party. And what if others want to use the BC for other use such as Missions?

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Since everyone won't be taking their level 1 mules along, you can cut that number by 1/3 I should think.

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Originally Posted by xbobx

These elite players will prepare for battle. Their squires will make sure all their armor is shined and their weapon's edges razor sharp. Time to gather the party. There are many people willing to go to this fight, but the elitist only require specific jobs. No, they cannot just choose any jobs, they must find the set of jobs that will allow them to win this battle as easy as possible, with very little real CHALLENGE. Will the pup and bst get invited, no. How about the dancer that works in the seedy bar living on waistband tips. no. The elitist cannot be seen with such riffraff, because they read in an informative news article that if they go with 4 monks and 2 white mages they will be able to two hour and complete the fight in record time!!

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I'd imagine a BST, PUP, or SMN burn party would work just as easily. The problem I see is with how bad congestion will be. I'm not sure how a DNC burn would go. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Vagrua

I'd imagine a BST, PUP, or SMN burn party would work just as easily. The problem I see is with how bad congestion will be. I'm not sure how a DNC burn would go. :confused:

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You're missing the point, he's not saying that the PUPs, DNCs, etc... won't win the fight, or even how easy it would be. He's pointing out that a lot of the people that are saying they want a challenge, are going to find out that a specific combination of jobs makes the hard-mode fight a joke, only invite people of those specific jobs that have a Relic/Mythic/Empy, so that they can win the fight in 15 seconds. Thus defeating the purpose of wanting a "hard-mode" in the first place.

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Originally Posted by xbobx

Good afternoon fellow players, casuals and elitists alike. I stand humbly before you to offer my words, most will be misspelled, but I ask for forgiveness on that, old brain injury. I have been off for a few days, I made the mistake of criticizing the almighty SE, I must learn to come to terms with the fact that they know all, although ten year olds I coach could have figured out there would be massive backlog if one bc was used, but I digress.

I have been reading comments about the challenge of this fight. It is noble to want to undertake this fight at the highest possible difficulty, but I see very few people here that truly want that. Now I do see many elitists that say they wish that, but is that the real truth?

Focusing on these elite players, I must say this. You hypocrites. Let me explain how this will really play out, and this is not up to debate because this way of doing things have spanned many many years of FFXI on almost every type of content.

These elite players will prepare for battle. Their squires will make sure all their armor is shined and their weapon's edges razor sharp. Time to gather the party. There are many people willing to go to this fight, but the elitist only require specific jobs. No, they cannot just choose any jobs, they must find the set of jobs that will allow them to win this battle as easy as possible, with very little real CHALLENGE. Will the pup and bst get invited, no. How about the dancer that works in the seedy bar living on waistband tips. no. The elitist cannot be seen with such riffraff, because they read in an informative news article that if they go with 4 monks and 2 white mages they will be able to two hour and complete the fight in record time!!

So they ignore all the /tells from all the wrong jobs, and they will gather all the empyrean monks they can find and head up along with some well geared white mages. The fight as expected, posed no challenge to this super setup.

They walk out, heads held high, they have beaten the fight on hard mode. hurrah hurrah the crowd shouts.

That is how it will really play out for all these people shouting for challenge. They will not go up there with a balanced party with a tank, any three damage dealing jobs a healer and support. That would be the real challenge.

Many of you will say, no no no, that is not how it will happen, but history says otherwise.

I bid you goodnight.

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....bob, you drunk?

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Originally Posted by xbobx

That is how it will really play out for all these people shouting for challenge. They will not go up there with a balanced party with a tank, any three damage dealing jobs a healer and support. That would be the real challenge. Many of you will say, no no no, that is not how it will happen, but history says otherwise.

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Ah, you finally stated the truth :) At least the options are there. Personally I rather just hand out 20 merits and be done with it, no battle or mini games or dumb ideas - just give me my level 99 and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Thanks everyone for the feedback and comments regarding our previous update.

Based on the opinions across all regions, we have decided to make multiple versions of the battlefield. Along with this change, we’ll need a few more days for development and testing, but we’re working diligently to get this in for the version update.

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Will there be a Maat's Cap II for players that complete the hard mode fight on all 20 jobs? Probably not right away, since the BC area will be spammed with people unlocking lvl 99, but the update after?