Walk of the no Coin drops??? formerly Walk of echoes

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

so wait, if you suck more you get better drops?

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I thought it was weird that my whm got 2k exp and a coin but my nin got 8k exp and crap drops.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Alrighty everyone, as I mentioned earlier I submitted your feedback to the development team and got a response from them.

Their idea and the current specifications are set so that you are guaranteed a reward by receiving a personal treasure chest, but getting exactly what you want each time is a difficult request.

They also commented that changing this to a lotting system is fine; however, since Walk of Echoes is a non-reserve system, you are playing with a maximum of 36 characters at the same time and if everyone single person says they want a specific item, you might not receive a reward at all. The development team wants to make sure you are okay with that.

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Camate a lotting system will not work with 36 people. PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE IT BACK TO A LOTTING SYSTEM. Alot of people did not do WoE because of the lotting system in the old way. If they want to add something allow us to trade in coins same as we do now with beastmen seals or tell them to make use of the extra coins somehow.

I would prefer that the chests remain as individual rewards, because with an open-to-anyone event, everyone is going to lot on anything of value whether they "need" it or not.

I believe most of the complaints could be satisfied by allowing players to trade coins with each other, even if that meant reducing the total number of coins that appear.

If the devs are not willing to consider that, then I believe that other options previously mentioned, such as allowing a 3-for-1 exchange, would be reasonable.

I'll be really brief:

I'm tired of Gold Ore and Gold Ore is tired of me. I love the current mechanics of Walk of Echoes (particularly compared to how it was before), but the current chests are a reliable source of disappointment, Gold Ore, and little else.

I think the point system is only way, when people stop doing Woe, which they will, it will become almost impossible to get coins, there has to be some way to get coins by not winning woe.

A petition should be started , we want our coins, we want our +2 WS, so fade up with 20+ run no one drop ( and yes as smn 12k exp+ ) still not a single coins, so when you want to do a multiple magian trial ... you are f...........


So disappointed, i am logging off and going to play something more fun and with rewards.

Is it me or does SE always seem to get it wrong? We make suggestions when they ask for it then they somehow completely come to an opposite conclusion.

It's not hard to see that, only getting a reward when beating a flux, means that once people stop doing it everyone is boned. Campaign type points is the way to go. Anyone and everyone can benefit from it as someone else mentioned before. Do a flux, get rated for participation, get points, spend points on what you want. Heck since SE wants to give out the new gear in these WoE chests you can still give people chests at the end of the run win or lose based off same participation and even though its filled with that same old random crap at least we get random crap with the ability to purchase coins.

And how SE thinks that getting random crap from chests is a good thing (FoV, GoV, WoE) is beyond me. At least the random crap you can get in abyssea is worth something in most cases even if you are just npcing. Random drops should have the lowest drop rate percentage as an extra, dare i say, bonus.

We traded the ffxi dev team for the ffxiv dev team why?

First off, PLEASE DO NOT GOT BACK TO A LOT SYSTEM.
We definitely like the individual drops. It just needs minor adjustments.

Unlike some others here, I have to admit that I like the logs and ores (hey, I have crafter friends and Elm Logs are a wondrous thing). It seems that lower tier runs tend to favor coin drops and higher tier are random things with the occasional coin or die. If we are getting random things over scrolls, coins, and dice, it isn't pleasant.

Without a way to know how the drops actually work, us players pretty much only can blame the lack of high profile drops (like dice or coins) on the lower profile drops (ores, logs). If getting stuff that is more of a bonus and not what we are after is truly interfering with drops, this needs to be changed, and if not, it would be nice to hear that it isn't.

Players can be quite superstitious about the way a game works, or else there wouldn't have been questions about stuff like removing gear for a Maat fight, or four leafed buds (and people still believe these things help them). Please clarify this.

The biggest problem with the coin drops currently is that you can get ones for things you totally don't need or want with no way to use them. Some sort of trading system (either with other players, or NPC at the standard 3:1 ratio) would be the solution to this.

The second biggest problem is that effort does not appear linked to rewards. If this isn't true, some reassurance will help, and players will get statistical samples to back this up, eventually.

I pretty much agree with nearly everyone here, when I say that I am pretty disappointed with the drops in the new WoE.

This is my experience so far. Mind you, I am not that "hardcore" of a player, so I haven't done 100+ runs yet. However, I have done 32 runs (started keeping track of my drops after the first 2 runs because I got nothing but synthesis materials from my first 2 runs) Needless to say, when it comes to getting coins, my luck is HORRIBLE.

Also, FYI I am needing Coin of Advancement for building some Revenant Fists +2. I'm 12/30 on those right now. That number was prior to the update. This is what I've gotten in terms of coins post-update in 32 runs. I won't list the synthesis materials since......it's crap.

Coin of Advancement - 1
Coin of Decay - 2
Coin of Glory - 2
Coin of Ruin - 2
Coin of Birth - 2
Devious Die - 3
Some neck armor, had CHR +6 on it - 1

That's it in 32 total runs. So yeah, it'll take me forever and a day to finish Revenant Fists +2 unless SE introduces some way for me to obtain more Coins of Advancement. I would be more than willing to trade the other coins I have for them to an NPC! I DON'T NEED/WANT THEM! I would be fine with a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio for that "balance" that SE ever so desires!

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I'll be really brief:

I'm tired of Gold Ore and Gold Ore is tired of me. I love the current mechanics of Walk of Echoes (particularly compared to how it was before), but the current chests are a reliable source of disappointment, Gold Ore, and little else.

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I'd rather have gold ores than the bone chips and revival roots I've been getting! :(

Include a new npc to convert coins at a 3:1 ratio, and I believe most people will be pleased.

We are also not looking for this an update from now in November, December, etc. We're looking for a solution now.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I'd rather have gold ores than the bone chips and revival roots I've been getting! :(

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Yes I have to say that a 2 gil, and 49 gil reward or w/e root npc's for is a massive let down after a fast paced action filled flux 11 run.

Keep personal reward chests, add a drop pool to the final clear that anyone can lot on.
Allow only single coins in personal chests. Allow certain items to be only in personal chests and certain items (for example, pouches) to be only in the final clear pool.

/solved

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

Include a new npc to convert coins at a 3:1 ratio, and I believe most people will be pleased.

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Shemo seems like the type of guy who would run a business like this. He'd even store them for his loyal customers (heh, suckers).

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Shemo seems like the type of guy who would run a business like this. He'd even store them for his loyal customers (heh, suckers).

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Shami (S).

Just so we all know he's been ripping people off since the Crystal War.

I'm mostly repeating what everyone here is saying. but to Camate: i think there keep being some kind of misunderstanding either from us to you, or you to the dev team. we are NOT (most of us at least) asking to go back to the lot system, which obviously if 36 people are running the same conflux, drops would be miserable overall (assuming 10 item max drop).

all we want is SOME way to not get coins we don't want and get coins we do want. yes the overall coin drops has been increased, BUT since the coins aren't tradable/sellable they aren't being thrown into any kind of circulation. LESS coins are going into existence because people will be trying for one type of coin, and toss all the others.

as far as lotting things, everyone is saying that want the OPTION to kick items from our gold chest that we don't want, into a pool. but obviously that's not the only thing that could be done. you could let us trade/baazar them like devious dice, or do that 3:1 trade that was mentioned. anything that would allow for some conversion/circulation of the coins at this point would make most people happy.

like it was stated, getting the NQ form of emperyn weapons should not take 3 times the time to get the better version

I think the personal loot pool should be altered. There should be one slot that is 100% 1 coin, and the rest can be the current random. This way players can get 1-3 coins each run.

I also like the ratio coin trade npc idea, or making coins able to trade/bazaar.

I am going to offer one of my crazy suggestions here.

How about if you get over a certain amount of XP (I haven't done WoE, so I cannot gauge this to give a specific number, I am not sure if 4,000 would be adequate) you are guaranteed one random coin drop. If you get over a certain amount of XP that is higher, you are guaranteed a Silver Mirror or a Devious Die. If you get over a certain amount of XP that is very high you are guaranteed a Heavy Metal Plate.

And of course you can get more than one of any of those items in a pool, but at least people will walk out of there feeling rewarded. And I like the idea of converting the coins. Put Shemo's and Shami's father someplace in the past where he can store coins and exchange them, a 3 : 1 ratio seems fair. Also exchange coins for Devious Die or Silver Mirrors at a higher ratio, maybe 10 : 1. Then Heavy Metal Plates at a higher ratio, perhaps 20 : 1. And maybe some gear or scrolls for higher amounts of coins. Suddenly you have a happy playerbase that feels like it is working towards something instead of throwing out lame crafting materials.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

Yes I have to say that a 2 gil, and 49 gil reward or w/e root npc's for is a massive let down after a fast paced action filled flux 11 run.

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"Damn, that run was tough. All of those NQ and HQ Skeleton Samurai's ending with Ganesha himself whom call any undefeated minions to his side to rape the unprepared..it was tough."

WoE Chest: "Rest easy, Heroes! I have your Gold Ore, Oak Log and Rainbow Cloth here!"

"...."

Just to be clear, I understand exactly what you are asking for in terms of a reward system. I will be re-submitting feedback with your suggestions again and see if I can make this a bit clearer for the development team. Give me a bit of time and I will try and get a response.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Alrighty everyone, as I mentioned earlier I submitted your feedback to the development team and got a response from them.

Their idea and the current specifications are set so that you are guaranteed a reward by receiving a personal treasure chest, but getting exactly what you want each time is a difficult request.

They also commented that changing this to a lotting system is fine; however, since Walk of Echoes is a non-reserve system, you are playing with a maximum of 36 characters at the same time and if everyone single person says they want a specific item, you might not receive a reward at all. The development team wants to make sure you are okay with that.

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Could make it the best of both worlds, personal chests with a Union-type chest that spawns at the end of the battle which has a higher chance of having higher grade loot in it, but is also up for lots against other people.

I think my biggest problem with the loot is how silly some of it is. I was in a group that completed conflux 10, and I got a two leaf mandragora bud for my trouble, among other minor things. Later I completed conflux 11 and got a bone chip, among other things.

I can understand that everything can't be awesome, but bone chips and mandragora buds simply are not loot worth putting into a end game event.

tldr; I'd like to see them reevaluate the rewards obtainable from WoE, because a lot of it is terrible.

The lotting system from before was crap; PLEASE do not give that back to us. Rather, give a function like in abyssea where you could transfer items from gold chests to the loot pool for lotting. And allow those drops to be free lotted by people in the same zone.

Clear a flux, and you a personal pool.
Take the item(s) you need/want.
If there are extra items left over, you have the choice to add them into a pool for everyone to lot.

That seems perfectly fair to me. Though I assume there'd be problems with what I mentioned?

Why not make it a system similar to Einherjar ichor? I never understood why SE never used that system more. It works really well... earn some form of tokens for killing mobs in WoE (or killing bosses, or clearing fluxes, anything) and exchange those for cards you actually want.


Edit: bad grammar. It's late here. Shhh...

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Originally Posted by Camate

Just to be clear, I understand exactly what you are asking for in terms of a reward system. I will be re-submitting feedback with your suggestions again and see if I can make this a bit clearer for the development team. Give me a bit of time and I will try and get a response.

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Thanks for taking a lot of the players' rage Camate, and we know it's not your fault. :)

The current personal chest can remain. As is, I'm like 0/30+ on new scrolls while probably sitting on about 10 misc coins and 11 die. I'm not really in WoE for coins at the moment, anyway.

However...

Like others have noted, implement a currency system like Ichor, Allied Notes, Conquest Points, and so on. Let the amount of this you receive be 1/4 your EXP rate, so a 15000 EXP clear would get you 3750 WoE points. While most people seem to be reporting numbers around half that, you can balance Coin costs from the new related vendor around maybe 3-4 clears, or 5000 WoE points for a coin. On the other hand, SE could also make it pouches for 25000 points, where if you're lucky you could beat that average, or not and get like 3 coins instead of 5 for the same. And since you'd still be getting chest loot, a WoE weapon won't take nearly as long as it does now.

Additionally, all the current equipment found in the various fluxes should be available from this vendor, maybe 100000 apiece. Not all will be worth that, obviously, but it'd help take the sting out of people not doing specific fluxes despite them having something you'd want, and in the rare chance you could do it, the drop wouldn't come anyway.

People won't be grinding WoE forever, so maintaining some means of individual or low-man progress needs to remain, which also means EXP and WoE Points need to be rewarded even if you don't get the clear.

Ok, run #33 was my best run in terms of getting exp. 11.5k exp, no deaths on my SMN.

This was my loot...

Revival Tree Root
Silver Ore
Wyvern Scales
Unicorn Horn
Phrygian Ore

REALLY? More than 11k exp and this is all I get? Now you can understand why a vast majority of the playerbase is upset, Camate.

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Originally Posted by Darkvalkyr

Thanks for taking a lot of the players' rage Camate, and we know it's not your fault. :)

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Haha, I have special rare/ex rings that absorb that kind of stuff. Pretty high proc rate too :)

But on a serious note, I am here for you guys ;)

just want to point out that all these little items that you guys don't want help the economy, these little items provide ways for people starting out in new crafts where as before the materials just were not there.

Additionally, if they made the rare drops common, then they would be worthless so why bother.

Finally the coin system does kinda suck, would be nice if you could trade one type of coin for another at a 2 for 1 rate.

Ok, those of you saying you want some sort of a lot system......just.....NO

You're just inviting douchebags to lot on stuff they don't really need for a quick profit.

The absolute best solution for the coin problem is to introduce a new NPC (I liked the Shami [S] idea) who you can trade unwanted coins you obtain from Walk of Echoes in exchange for coins you need at a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio.

I also liked the idea someone mentioned earlier, mentioning at least 1 item in the loot pool should be a coin 100% of the time. If it turns out to be a coin you need, GREAT! Lucky you! But if you get coins you don't need 3 times in a row, then you can simply trade those in for 1 you need. That way, it takes you 3 runs at most to obtain 1 coin you need. Assuming you keep doing WoE continuously and never get a coin you need, it would take 90 Walk of Echoes runs to complete a WoE weapon trial.

If the dev team would consider it, would it be reasonable for them to remove the horrible items such as silver ore and whatnot that people usually just leave in the chest, and instead change them into Devious Die?

I made 5 WoE weapons before this update, and after doing runs religiously in my downtime, I've managed to walk away with only 5/500 Die I'd need if I wanted to upgrade them all, let alone come close to upgrading a single one at this rate. I'm not sure exactly what the devs were thinking with the 100 Die requirement as far as balance goes, but with such low drop rates overall, coupled with the fact that on my server the WoE craze has already died down from 100+ people to barely 15 in Flux 9 during US Prime, I'm not really certain how they expect me or other players to reasonably upgrade our weapons any higher. I also do not wish to pay 50k-100k per Die, since that'll basically be 5M-10M at the rate the players are bazaaring them on my server, and most mercenary shells will sell you an entire stage of an Emp Weapon for that much money...

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Originally Posted by Daniel

just want to point out that all these little items that you guys don't want help the economy, these little items provide ways for people starting out in new crafts where as before the materials just were not there.
rate.

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I think the majority are fine with helping out crafter's. I craft myself, and while none of the WoE drops pertain two my leveled crafts I have happily put the stuff I received on the AH, and made a bit of cash. What people don't want are things like bone chips, and revival roots.

In regards to people asking for coins to be bazaarable I'm not a fan of that. 3:1 ratio will keep people coming to the event. If coins are sold through bazaar's as well as dice the event will fade to low attendance a lot faster imo.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Alrighty everyone, as I mentioned earlier I submitted your feedback to the development team and got a response from them.

Their idea and the current specifications are set so that you are guaranteed a reward by receiving a personal treasure chest, but getting exactly what you want each time is a difficult request.

They also commented that changing this to a lotting system is fine; however, since Walk of Echoes is a non-reserve system, you are playing with a maximum of 36 characters at the same time and if everyone single person says they want a specific item, you might not receive a reward at all. The development team wants to make sure you are okay with that.

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The current system is fine, it's just that it currently seems slower to obtain trial items than it was before. Remember that before, only small groups did Walk of Echoes, thus your odds of getting the coins you wanted were actually the same if not better.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

"Damn, that run was tough. All of those NQ and HQ Skeleton Samurai's ending with Ganesha himself whom call any undefeated minions to his side to rape the unprepared..it was tough."

WoE Chest: "Rest easy, Heroes! I have your Gold Ore, Oak Log and Rainbow Cloth here!"

"...."

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I think this sums everything up, really. (Sorry for doublepost!)

Really, in the current state of things, Walk of Echoes weapons are slower to aquire than Empyreans. And this really shouldn't be the case.

Again, if you want coins, try to spam #7 it will help. #8-11 are mostly for a small chance on big money items/scrolls. A fiend and I spam mostly 6 & 7, we don't have very similar results but close enough. Here are the numbers after ~80 runs

Mine:
Birth: 44
Adv. : 36
Glory: 60
Decay: 60
Ruin : 36

Friend:
'' 46
'' 33
'' 36
'' 32
'' 23

Imo the drop rate is steady enough that you will get whatever you want eventually, although not instantly. Don't go back to the old system, it won't work with 36ppl per run.

The friend misses a few runs, that's why she has smaller numbers overall.

Maybe make a Walk of Echoe's only currency system similar to Dominion Ops, or Grounds of Valor tabs, where you always get an amount of that currency then spend it on the coin you need. It would still keep the challenge of obtaining them, without making the whole server compete with one another.

You could just adjust the magian trials themselves so that 30 of any coin can upgrade any weapon. Either that or just get rid of the different types and replace them with a generic one. As a counter to this to stop very quick completion remove the coin pouches entirely.

You're still looking at a good 60 clears on average of the upper tiers to get 30 total coins of differing types, I would say that's fairly reasonable.

Always remember that SE is the Wishmaster. Ask to not have to complete with leeches in WoE and they turn us all into leeches. Complain that Relics aren't powerful enough compared to Emps that are easier to get and they make 95 Emps nearly impossible to finish. Tell them you want force pop kings so you don't have to pay HNM shells millions of gil for BB items and gear and you get 5-10mil hq king pops.

i vote bloodsucker's be added to ffxi so i can have S.T.A.L.K.E.R flashbacks in game.... when is the 4th game comming?!