Summoner in Colonization Reives = Broken

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Originally Posted by RAIST

No, I'm saying that the issue at hand here is SoA content, not the others. If you take out SMN's usefulness, you may virtually remove it from an important portion of the content. See my last post. In some ways, this feature of SMN makes it WANTED in reives.

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I thought you meant that the other events were worthless now. PD is still very effective and needed in the other events. In the case that you meant they are no longer relevant because of the expansion then nor is the claim that SMN is the red headed step child. They are now raining supreme with the new expansion.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

So which is it.... one job is taking the xp from everyone else (including yourself), or you are able to get good xp regardless if this other job is so broken that it is stealing the xp from everyone?

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Ever see a SAM or BLU in action in there?

Or a well geared PLD?

Methinks you may be a bit confused on what is going on out there.

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You are the one confused and you're taking certain parts from certain conversations and mashing them together into one paraphrased sentence to misconstrue my points.

1. Yes SMN is taking Bayld from other support classes by making it literally impossible to perform their function when there are more than 1 or 2 SMN's.
2. Yes I can get good Bayld when I change my job class. Which shouldn't be necessary.
3. I stated that I often go as SAM.

Anything else?

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Originally Posted by RAIST

key word there.. Attempt. What happens when there isn't enough healing and shedding of enmity and the healers die and everyone wipes?

What happens when that healer is a SMN's avatar?

What happens when it's a handful of mages?

Just saying.. need to put all this in the proper perspective.

Oh, yeah... and there are TWO SIDES to a reive. You can always go to the other side if there is too much competition for your usefulness....or go to another reive for that matter. ATM, there's tons of people doing them. Wait until it dies down, then what? lack of support in general and it becomes too much a chore for people to complete them easily enough, then what? Perhaps this is working as intended as an ounce of prevention from SE (I know.. giving them too much credit for the forethought, but who knows?).

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You cannot simply "go to the other side" of a Reive. Have you even done this event? Have you left Ceizak Battlegrounds?

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Originally Posted by Malphius

I thought you meant that the other events were worthless now. PD is still very effective and needed in the other events. In the case that you meant they are no longer relevant because of the expansion then nor is the claim that SMN is the red headed step child. They are now raining supreme with the new expansion.

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But, you're missing the point. If you take this feature away from SMN, you may wind up taking away it's usefulness in reives. Well, at least outside of a very limited scope of being in a party trying to take them on I guess. But, if one is putting forth that level of planning, they are more likely to take the job that is best suited for healing a party. Which jobs would they be considering for that role? SMN? I guess if nothing else is available, maybe.

So, what does the lonely SMN get for it's efforts in reives if it's not in a party?

What does nearly every other job get for it's efforts in reives if not in a party?

That's the problem. You are advocating taking away the one thing that makes them truly desirable in the new content. Having this feature doesn't lessen the desire for other jobs NEARLY as much as it would reduce the desire for SMN if it was taken away. Therfore, it actually does (in SE's twisted way) provide balance for the jobs.

Just think about it. If Garuda/Leviathin/Carbuncle are able to provide just enough healing support to sustain a reive long enough for the HP restore rewards to kick in and refill everyone, it frees up other jobs to focus on other aspects. Couple this with the fact that it is virtually the only way for a SMN to make sure they get decent rewards, while most other jobs aren't faced with that delimma (lets face it, most other jobs are considerably more durable than SMN if they are getting smacked by a mob--even BRD gets access to more durable gears at times)...than you are faced with a serious deficit if you take away the one thing that really gives the job a truly desired slot in the event.

The simple fact that a WHM can get somewhat decent rewards without focusing on healing should be evidence enough that it is NOT required that a healer gets all it's reward from curing, even if it is the one most suited for it. So, what is SMN REALLy taking away from the healer? At least there is another option for those other jobs to still perform relevant roles and get rewarded for their efforts...SMN actually pretty much IS the red-headed step-child here if you really think about it.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

SMN is good at something? By Altana! Red alert! AWOOOOGAH! AWOOOGAH! This is NOT a drill! Emergency maintenance! Patch it NOW! GO GO GO! Let's move people! Let's MOVE!

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this, this, this, a thousand times this.

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You cannot simply "go to the other side" of a Reive. Have you even done this event? Have you left Ceizak Battlegrounds?

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You most certainly can, as long as you've been to each of the bivouacs.

I can't for the life of me comprehend why someone is upset that a typically very unwanted job is able to perform a useful task in an event and be rewarded for it.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

You cannot simply "go to the other side" of a Reive. Have you even done this event? Have you left Ceizak Battlegrounds?

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Umm.. yes... have you not read my posts?

Roots always spawn in the same spots. The campers all gather and wait. Some gather more heavily on one side than the other. If one side is heavier with SMN, just go join the other group.

Now, with the crags and trees, it gets a little more complicated I guess...unless you can use waypoints to navigate around to the other side somehow. That may be too much a bother though. But with the roots, it's pretty easy to choose a side...provided you've done it enough to have a feel for where the roots will pop.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

You are the one confused and you're taking certain parts from certain conversations and mashing them together into one paraphrased sentence to misconstrue my points.

1. Yes SMN is taking Bayld from other support classes by making it literally impossible to perform their function when there are more than 1 or 2 SMN's.
2. Yes I can get good Bayld when I change my job class. Which shouldn't be necessary.
3. I stated that I often go as SAM.

Anything else?

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And I just actually went and spent an HOUR IN GAME showing that I did not have to change my job class and still got rewarded for my efforts on a WHITE MAGE without relying on healing while the SUMMONERS were supporting the group.

Now, what DID i change? My TACTICS.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

this, this, this, a thousand times this.

You most certainly can, as long as you've been to each of the bivouacs.

I can't for the life of me comprehend why someone is upset that a typically very unwanted job is able to perform a useful task in an event and be rewarded for it.

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You get a time out penalty for leaving a reive. Again not upset they're useful. However it's useful to the point of being unbalanced. Thank you for your comments.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

You get a time out penalty for leaving a reive. Again not upset they're useful. However it's useful to the point of being unbalanced. Thank you for your comments.

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Not here to defend Alhanelem (he can do that himself) but you CAN go to the other side of reive. Especially in Morimar Basalt Fields, it's very easy as long as you get there before the rock crack and block the "bridge". Also, if you were to stand at the right spot, you can heal ppl on both side. I've been going there for Reive and even my mule gets 3k per reive as sch just healing/buffing me (and the occasional healing of other DDs).

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Originally Posted by RAIST

But, you're missing the point. If you take this feature away from SMN, you may wind up taking away it's usefulness in reives. Well, at least outside of a very limited scope of being in a party trying to take them on I guess. But, if one is putting forth that level of planning, they are more likely to take the job that is best suited for healing a party. Which jobs would they be considering for that role? SMN? I guess if nothing else is available, maybe.

So, what does the lonely SMN get for it's efforts in reives if it's not in a party?

What does nearly every other job get for it's efforts in reives if not in a party?

That's the problem. You are advocating taking away the one thing that makes them truly desirable in the new content. Having this feature doesn't lessen the desire for other jobs NEARLY as much as it would reduce the desire for SMN if it was taken away. Therfore, it actually does (in SE's twisted way) provide balance for the jobs.

Just think about it. If Garuda/Leviathin/Carbuncle are able to provide just enough healing support to sustain a reive long enough for the HP restore rewards to kick in and refill everyone, it frees up other jobs to focus on other aspects. Couple this with the fact that it is virtually the only way for a SMN to make sure they get decent rewards, while most other jobs aren't faced with that delimma (lets face it, most other jobs are considerably more durable than SMN if they are getting smacked by a mob--even BRD gets access to more durable gears at times)...than you are faced with a serious deficit if you take away the one thing that really gives the job a truly desired slot in the event.

The simple fact that a WHM can get somewhat decent rewards without focusing on healing should be evidence enough that it is NOT required that a healer gets all it's reward from curing, even if it is the one most suited for it. So, what is SMN REALLy taking away from the healer? At least there is another option for those other jobs to still perform relevant roles and get rewarded for their efforts...SMN actually pretty much IS the red-headed step-child here if you really think about it.

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Taking away this feature once again for the 1000th time will put SMN back on a level playing field and would make them operate exactly the way they do literally every where else in the game.

1. This is not a solo event and SMN is a buff job. Party up or fail like any other support job.

2. If you are a DD solo you get the reward of probably dying. Unless a SMN is around to spam BP's.

3. It doen't make them less useful it just makes them less all powerful. Having this feature lessens the desire not from other DD or PLD's but from the actual mages who would have come to cure but didn't because DD is better.

4. This paragraph proves my point. SMN's are able to provide healing support all on their one for the duration of a reive using an unfair advantage.

5. The simple fact that a support class job (again I never brought WHM into this, it's the same for rdm,sch,geo or bard) cannot get rewards by performing their function which by the way is why they're called "jobs" is evidence of how this is an unbalanced game mechanic.