This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

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Originally Posted by detlef

You ignored the whole part about obsoleting content quickly and brutally.

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What does this have anything to do with me and my responses? I have not touched that topic nor have a ever disagreed with anyone who brought it up.

And if you are talking about Skirmish being killed off quickly when SoA was released? That's a whole other topic. SoA was new I admit. Delve killed it, I admit. But this conversation was already discussed that originally it seems Matsui created a Tier System expecting people to go from Coalition > Skirmish > Delve but the system was flawed and people ended up skipping Skirmish altogether diving straight into Delve.

It's also discussed that Matsui is now trying to fill in the gaps.

The way I see it, he put the base of the house down first and now he's trying to build on top of it. I doubt Matsui is going to kill off another event like WR because that would be wasting time and effort putting it in to begin with.

And I'm sure he is smart enough NOT to make the same mistake twice.

Sure Skirmish was a terrible tragedy but the best thing he can do is adjust it over time. Those who already got Delve weapons have no reason to get a Skirmish true but rather than accept defeat and abandon it, I see he is trying to adjust it for those who can't get a delve weapon. I mean how many DD complain they are not getting invites?

I'm sure this would be easier to obtain than a Mythic, cheaper than getting a Relic, and well much more fun than camping 8 hour NMs in old content for Emp.

Do you understand computer programming? You can't just fix something right on the spot. They have to adjust the files and then implement the changes which we download these files. And this takes a lot of time.

Now add up everything I've been saying.

Give the guy a chance.
They are paying attention.
They read our feedback.
They do try to address everyone but realistically they cannot please everyone.
They cannot afford to lose more players.
It takes time.
Be patient.
Progress can be seen, its not like they aren't doing anything.

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As we are in midst of working on the July version update as well as the August version update, I'll need a bit more time before I can tell you new information, but I’ll be doing my best to deliver it to you as it becomes available.

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Give the guy a chance.
They are paying attention.
They read our feedback.
They do try to address everyone but realistically they cannot please everyone.
They cannot afford to lose more players.
It takes time.
Be patient.
Progress can be seen, its not like they aren't doing anything.

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Have to stop you on that one, the first 2 are you giving them the benefit of the doubt, but if they tried to reply to everyone, we'd see something by now.

We'd see something actually done about inventory space. Chatoyant Gorget, and porter slips for bayld gear, as well base/fully mezzo'd delve gear are quite easy to implement.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

Have to stop you on that one, the first 2 are you giving them the benefit of the doubt, but if they tried to reply to everyone, we'd see something by now.

We'd see something actually done about inventory space. Chatoyant Gorget, and porter slips for bayld gear, as well base/fully mezzo'd delve gear are quite easy to implement.

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This is what Matsui said.

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The way everyone thinks is different, and while a universally accepted answer is not very realistic, I will continue to do my best to ensure that I connect my responses to our position and conclusions that can be easily understood.

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I dunno I spin in front of 2,000+ people on pride every year. I know I can't please everyone with my music but I try to play what's universally liked by most. Some people love Beyonce, some don't. So my POV is very much the same as the Devs therefore I can relate.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

What does this have anything to do with me and my responses? I have not touched that topic nor have a ever disagreed with anyone who brought it up.

And if you are talking about Skirmish being killed off quickly when SoA was released? That's a whole other topic. SoA was new I admit. Delve killed it, I admit. But this conversation was already discussed that originally it seems Matsui created a Tier System expecting people to go from Coalition > Skirmish > Delve but the system was flawed and people ended up skipping Skirmish altogether diving straight into Delve.

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When you said this:

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Who's to say they won't do the same when they do release the new delve? We may never know until it happens but I highly doubt they would stand there and let WR die out this early in the expansion. It's too big of an event to make it completely useless.

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I called you on it. As we have seen with Skirmish, SE can and will obsolete content before you can even blink.

Therefore there is no reason to think that Wildskeeper is somehow exempt. It's logical to think that the drops from Hurkan and Yumcax, while relevant now, will likely be considered trash in the near future.

It's really in your best interest to get in on the fights now if you want to obtain the good drops while they are still relevant. Yes, people will stop coming when they get all the gear they want. But as I've said so many times already, people are going to stop coming anyway when better gear comes out.

SE might as well make it easier for players to get at least some of their desired items before interest wanes. The other alternative that you support is for smaller groups of casual players to tackle Wildskeeper fights at lower colonization rates while more progressive players participate in Delve for better versions of the gear that isn't going to load for you anyway.

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Originally Posted by detlef

When you said this:

I called you on it. As we have seen with Skirmish, SE can and will obsolete content before you can even blink.

Therefore there is no reason to think that Wildskeeper is somehow exempt. It's logical to think that the drops from Hurkan and Yumcax, while relevant now, will likely be considered trash in the near future.

It's really in your best interest to get in on the fights now if you want to obtain the good drops while they are still relevant. Yes, people will stop coming when they get all the gear they want. But as I've said so many times already, people are going to stop coming anyway when better gear comes out.

SE might as well make it easier for players to get at least some of their desired items before interest wanes. The other alternative that you support is for smaller groups of casual players to tackle Wildskeeper fights at lower colonization rates while more progressive players participate in Delve for better versions of the gear that isn't going to load for you anyway.

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Ok but has the NEW delve happened yet? It maybe trash to those who already get drops from Hurkan and Yumcax but my response to you was i doubt it will be useless to those who don't even have it yet and if Matsui designs the tier system requiring people to have this gear to play new delve then I'm sure WR will survive longer than your example of people abandoning it right upon implementing new Delve.

People needed REM for delve and now many require delve weapons to farm plasm.

I seriously wonder how people will be when new Delve is implemented. You want the guy in AF3/NNI/Bayld gear? Or the guy in Nakuul gear?

And if the drop rate is a bad as people say it and takes so much time and effort to get it, then what will happen on the day you can only find 3-4 people with Nakuul gear and struggle to take down the new New Delve bosses?

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Originally Posted by Daemon

This is what Matsui said.

I dunno I spin in front of 2,000+ people on pride every year. I know I can't please everyone with my music but I try to play what's universally liked by most. Some people love Beyonce, some don't. So my POV is very much the same as the Devs therefore I can relate.

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But if the crowd's chanting for hip hop, and one guy happens to be close enough asks for adult contemporary, which do you put on? SE would put on A/C.

To be honest, in the scenario, if 10% of the crowd want A/C, would you ever turn on any A/C? Of course you wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

But if the crowd's chanting for hip hop, and one guy happens to be close enough asks for adult contemporary, which do you put on? SE would put on A/C.

To be honest, in the scenario, if 10% of the crowd want A/C, would you ever turn on any A/C? Of course you wouldn't.

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That example would be like if the crowd is asking to make FFXI more like diablo III and 1 guy in the crowd wants them to make it Tetris when the game is FFXI. Just like if I'm the DJ and my following knows I play EDM/ House and have followed me for many years then I'd stick to what my fanbase knows me for. As for the crowd wanting hip hop I could stop my flow and toss in a couple of tracks and go back to playing for the majority, but for the guy who wants adult contemporary, the only solution is to play a remix :)

But usually no tells me what to play. I have to play based on research, feedback and what I think the majority will like most.

And for the guy who wants country and opera? You are in a dance club.... Which deserves to be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Ok but has the NEW delve happened yet? It maybe trash to those who already get drops from Hurkan and Yumcax but my response to you was i doubt it will be useless to those who don't even have it yet and if Matsui designs the tier system requiring people to have this gear to play new delve then I'm sure WR will survive longer than your example of people abandoning it right upon implementing new Delve.

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My point is that the number of Wildskeeper participants is going to continue dwindling so you might as well give players more of what they want before you get to a point where there is insufficient player interest to even win the fight.

I dunno, you must be a glass half full kinda person. When I read that response in the JP thread, it sounded like the player (Quite respectfully and not at all like I am about to phrase it) said:

"WTF ARE YOU DOING? YOU"RE RUINING THE GAME AND EVERYONE IS LEAVING! STOP LISTENING TO YOUR FRIENDS AND LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!".


To which Matsui replied:

"oh well... If you don't like it don't play".

Every time he justifies a decision, he uses some outlandish excuse that has nothing to do with making group A or Group B happy. It's just a lucky coincidence if it pleases someone. Like when he said we had to have leveling through gear because the only option was raising the cap and that would mess something up... completely ignoring the merit system and the fact that gear messes up the whole game, not just the way some numbers display.

Then there is the fact that he keeps putting development time into crap like moogle gil storage chests that don't do anything useful while thousands of useful upgrades / fixes go unchecked for years. Would have really been that hard to make my gear all go in there instead?

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Originally Posted by detlef

My point is that the number of Wildskeeper participants is going to continue dwindling so you might as well give players more of what they want before you get to a point where there is insufficient player interest to even win the fight.

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Which would be a quick fix, rather than something over time.

What if the Devs added more Nakuuls? Different drops? Added other things to give people a reason to continue doing WR? Add better loots? More Kis? New spells with new scrolls? New Synthesis Materials?

VW wasn't perfect when it was first implemented and history shows that the Devs did add on top of events to improve them, not totally kill it. Why add Salvage II?

What 3-4 updates ago SE added Devious Die and Liminal Residue sachs to WoE because it took forever to get just 1. They could have left the event the way it was but they did it so people could make WoE weapons faster. They made it easier too so more people could low man play it.

Repeat, why on earth would they spend so much time making the event WR only to watch it die? This is MMORPG in real time. Not like you buy a PS3 game and move on to the next area never to go back to the previous parts of the game ever again...

You do know this is not the first time the Devs implemented an event like WR right?

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Which would be a quick fix, rather than something over time.

What if the Devs added more Nakuuls? Different drops? Added other things to give people a reason to continue doing WR? Add better loots? More Kis? New spells with new scrolls? New Synthesis Materials?

VW wasn't perfect when it was first implemented and history shows that the Devs did add on top of events to improve them, not totally kill it.

What 3-4 updates ago SE added Drvious Die and Liminal Residue pouch because it took forever to get just 1. They could have left the event the way it was but they did it so people could make WoE weapons faster.

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To be honest, when they released VW, it sucked. SO I didn't do it. Then they improved a little, but it still basically sucked, so I didn't do it. Then they made it somewhat tolerable, but by that point I was really far behind and they had an expansion in the works... So I didn't do it. I just basically took a few months off completely and waited for VW to go away. Which it more or less did.

EDIT: I really don't want them to keep doing that. I don't like investing in an event in the hopes that some day it won't suck. A lot of times, things suck for a really long time. Sometimes they make them tolerable right before they come out with the next thing, but a lot of times it's not even soon enough to matter. It really robs the whole game of purpose.

MORE fights that require 40-200 people is not the answer.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I dunno, you must be a glass half full kinda person. When I read that response in the JP thread, it sounded like the player (Quite respectfully and not at all like I am about to phrase it) said:

"WTF ARE YOU DOING? YOU"RE RUINING THE GAME AND EVERYONE IS LEAVING! STOP LISTENING TO YOUR FRIENDS AND LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!".


To which Matsui replied:

"oh well... If you don't like it don't play".

Every time he justifies a decision, he uses some outlandish excuse that has nothing to do with making group A or Group B happy. It's just a lucky coincidence if it pleases someone. Like when he said we had to have leveling through gear because the only option was raising the cap and that would mess something up... completely ignoring the merit system and the fact that gear messes up the whole game, not just the way some numbers display.

Then there is the fact that he keeps putting development time into crap like moogle gil storage chests that don't do anything useful while thousands of useful upgrades / fixes go unchecked for years. Would have really been that hard to make my gear all go in there instead?

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Because he cannot please everyone. Then again programming is complicated. And PS2 limitations is destroying the game because of how advance technology is now. Can only do so much with:

CPU 128-bit[4][5] "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294.912 MHz (launch), 299 MHz (newer models)
PlayStation 2 memory card (8 megabyte officially supported; also available in 16, 32, 64 and 128 megabyte storage space)
PlayStation memory card (128 kilobyte/1 megabit)
40 GB Hard Drive (add-on)

Memory 32 MB of Direct RAMBUS or RDRAM 4 MB eDRAM

Graphics "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147.456 MHz

13 years old technology.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Which would be a quick fix, rather than something over time.

What if the Devs added more Nakuuls? Different drops? Added other things to give people a reason to continue doing WR? Add better loots? More Kis? New spells with new scrolls? New Synthesis Materials?

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There are at least 7 Naakuals. We’ll probably fight all of them. I don’t enjoy fighting them, I only do it because the drops are relevant right now. What new spells or scrolls could they possibly add? There are no new spells other than Geomancy, and those are already available from Skirmish.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

VW wasn't perfect when it was first implemented and history shows that the Devs did add on top of events to improve them, not totally kill it. Why add Salvage II?

What 3-4 updates ago SE added Devious Die and Liminal Residue sachs to WoE because it took forever to get just 1. They could have left the event the way it was but they did it so people could make WoE weapons faster. They made it easier too so more people could low man play it.

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Voidwatch has always been barely tolerable because of the fact that you could spam the fights. Wildskeeper is not spammable and fights do not last 3 minutes like in Voidwatch. Please don’t use Walk of Echoes as a positive example. It was another event that was adjusted too little, too late. It may be that those coin weapons have a second life unlocking the weaponskills permanently but for now you can hardly consider WoE as one of SE’s triumphs.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Repeat, why on earth would they spend so much time making the event WR only to watch it die? This is MMORPG in real time. Not like you buy a PS3 game and move on to the next area never to go back to the previous parts of the game ever again...

You do know this is not the first time the Devs implemented an event like WR right?

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I’m pretty sure I’ve got way more experience playing this game than you do so yes, I’m aware that there have been large scale events in the game prior to Wildskeeper. You know what they have in common? They are hard to win when interest is low.

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Originally Posted by detlef

There are at least 7 Naakuals. We’ll probably fight all of them. I don’t enjoy fighting them, I only do it because the drops are relevant right now. What new spells or scrolls could they possibly add? There are no new spells other than Geomancy, and those are already available from Skirmish.

Voidwatch has always been barely tolerable because of the fact that you could spam the fights. Wildskeeper is not spammable and fights do not last 3 minutes like in Voidwatch. Please don’t use Walk of Echoes as a positive example. It was another event that was adjusted too little, too late. It may be that those coin weapons have a second life unlocking the weaponskills permanently but for now you can hardly consider WoE as one of SE’s triumphs.

I’m pretty sure I’ve got way more experience playing this game than you do so yes, I’m aware that there have been large scale events in the game prior to Wildskeeper. You know what they have in common? They are hard to win when interest is low.

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And I've only been playing since day one and took a year off for school >.>

To me you sound like nothing is good enough for you. You maybe in WR moment of the game but you are complaining and acting as if everyone is on the same page as you.

I never said there are new spells. You pointed out a future event that no one will be playing WR when new delve comes out because it will be killed.

I said what happens if they add new spells and new scrolls which means if new spells are added they could put new scroll for those spells in Nakuuls.

WoE is not a bad example because if Devs do upgrade REM and allow people to unlock emp WS WoE path then people will be farming Devious Die and Liminal.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

And I've only been playing since day one and took a year off for school >.>

To me you sound like nothing is good enough for you. You maybe in WR moment of the game but you are complaining and acting as if everyone is on the same page as you.

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I don't know about everybody being on the same page as me, but let me know if you find somebody who is on the same page as you.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I don't know about everybody being on the same page as me, but let me know if you find somebody who is on the same page as you.

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The only thing I said in all of my post was that I disagreed suggesting making everyone get a guaranteed rare drop from Wildskeeper Rieves.

That would be like saying I deserve a rare drop from every other boss. Which I think it's pointless.

How 1 opinion turned into a vs war with you.

I never disagreed how long it takes to kill a Nakuul. I've even agreed in other posts that it sounds retarded making us spend hours on 1 boss. I even stated Its a conflict with what the comment says on login screen "Do not forget your job, family, friends.

When I said same page as you it means that not everybody in game is the same as you able to play end game events and can complain that "I only got a grip and cape"

Which to me sounds like someone saying "I only got a Hyaline hat, Sanus Enis but no shield off PW." And I'm losing interest in this event because I can't stand fighting 3 bosses just to play PW.

Then again I could have been rude and said "Why you complaining? Stop crying over drop rate and how much time you spent and go back and try harder"

But I chose to be nice instead.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

To be honest, when they released VW, it sucked. SO I didn't do it. Then they improved a little, but it still basically sucked, so I didn't do it. Then they made it somewhat tolerable, but by that point I was really far behind and they had an expansion in the works... So I didn't do it. I just basically took a few months off completely and waited for VW to go away. Which it more or less did.

EDIT: I really don't want them to keep doing that. I don't like investing in an event in the hopes that some day it won't suck. A lot of times, things suck for a really long time. Sometimes they make them tolerable right before they come out with the next thing, but a lot of times it's not even soon enough to matter. It really robs the whole game of purpose.

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I agree with you Frank. I mean the anger meter was pretty high after 1,800+ out of 2k fights not getting a dagger off Qilin.

I just don't state that Nakuul is too hard or too time consuming because so much gear out right now and we don't know how the results can make a difference. I know gear makes a huge difference in anything you do but look at the player base who show up to Nakuuls or any event for that matter? Are they rocking out high end gear? Max upgraded delve weapons/armor? High end accessories? Using food?

Yet I'm seeing gimped mages, quick overnight paladins with Twilight gear etc...

Then again how would the difference be if people started showing up to WR with Nakuul gear pimped out? Colonization rate at 100%?

I means this is why I can't state facts like Hurkan takes 10 hours to kill!!! SE u suck!!! Plz fix it!!! (Yes that was an example not to be taken seriously.)

So that's why my POV is different than others.

I saw 1 person say Yumcax takes 27 hours, then someone else said 10 hours. So which is it lol? Cuz that a 17 hour big difference between the two.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

The only thing I said in all of my post was that I disagreed suggesting making everyone get a guaranteed rare drop from Wildskeeper Rieves.

That would be like saying I deserve a rare drop from every other boss. Which I think it's pointless.

How 1 opinion turned into a vs war with you.

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Okay this will be my last post (I say that but I can't guarantee that I'll be able to resist the urge to post again). I don’t think that you should get the exact item you want on the first try. What I think is that by the time you kill a Naakual for the nth time, where n = the number of unique drops, you should obtain the item. If you kill Yumcax 6 times and walk away with only 2 drops, then something is wrong. I hold this opinion for Wildskeeper only because of the demanding nature of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

I never disagreed how long it takes to kill a Nakuul. I've even agreed in other posts that it sounds retarded making us spend hours on 1 boss. I even stated Its a conflict with what the comment says on login screen "Do not forget your job, family, friends.

When I said same page as you it means that not everybody in game is the same as you able to play end game events and can complain that "I only got a grip and cape"

Which to me sounds like someone saying "I only got a Hyaline hat, Sanus Enis but no shield off PW." And I'm losing interest in this event because I can't stand fighting 3 bosses just to play PW.

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As I said, I only hold that opinion for Wildskeeper. PW is stupid too, and any reasonable person can see that the fight was and is worthless. That’s an example of what happens when items become unobtainable: people ignore the event. I personally only have the staff, which autosorted to me. After participating a few times, I realized that the probability of any item dropping was low and the probability of winning the lot was going to result in a 1% chance of me walking away with my desired item. So I stopped going.

That’s been my argument all along. That people will not view Wildskeeper as a viable event and will just ignore it because it’s not worth the headache.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Okay this will be my last post (I say that but I can't guarantee that I'll be able to resist the urge to post again). I don’t think that you should get the exact item you want on the first try. What I think is that by the time you kill a Naakual for the nth time, where n = the number of unique drops, you should obtain the item. If you kill Yumcax 6 times and walk away with only 2 drops, then something is wrong. I hold this opinion for Wildskeeper only because of the demanding nature of the fight.

As I said, I only hold that opinion for Wildskeeper. PW is stupid too, and any reasonable person can see that the fight was and is worthless. That’s an example of what happens when items become unobtainable: people ignore the event. I personally only have the staff, which autosorted to me. After participating a few times, I realized that the probability of any item dropping was low and the probability of winning the lot was going to result in a 1% chance of me walking away with my desired item. So I stopped going.

That’s been my argument all along. That people will not view Wildskeeper as a viable event and will just ignore it because it’s not worth the headache.

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Understood so now here's my point of view. FFX14 launches on the 27th. Devs know people are quitting. They know they need to do their best to keep us interested. It's their job and its pretty scary to be in Matsui's position right now because remember when 14 first failed? The worst disaster in final fantasy history. I'd hate to be the guy who ended an 11 year game entrusted to me to keep it going because I couldn't keep the fanbase happy.

Us DJs are exactly the same. Our biggest fear of the entire crowd leaving because we couldn't entertain them. Or didn't give the people what they wanted. And we are not mind readers.

We don't need content that makes people leave, so please focus on making content that will bring people back from here on out.

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Matsui's Response: If it seems that way, it's just my inadequacy and I will do my best to work harder on this.

There are times when I get a bit hung up thinking about how to respond to dissenting opinions and criticism, but I will do my best to grasp the real meaning and make the appropriate response.

As a result of this there are times when I do not make direct replies to feedback, and as I am not always quoting text it may seem that your feedback is being ignored. Also, there are cases it might feel this way when you don't receive an answer to certain things you were expecting and the subject continues to shift.

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While you may not have faith. After the last 2 updates I'm seeing better improvements than ever. When I first saw Tamaxchi I thought wow they are really trying to impress us now.

Yeah I know previous updates and fixes took forever but the man is showing he is trying. Look at the huge disappointment REM players complained about?

If I was in this guys shoes my face would be red and I'd be in panic mode right now.

Had they NOT made any adjustments in the past 2 months responding quickly to our complaints about several issues, then I'd be pissed off and be ranting even more and DEFINATLY would choose to move over to 14.

But I'm seeing something different in the DEV team right now that I did not see before.

We complained about colonization rieves being too hard. Fixed.

Gear difference from Abyssea to Adoulin. Did they make Bayld gear better? (I don't know because I haven't updated yet to check but I think DJ said they did) they sure made it easier to earn.

We complained 100k Bayld was too much. They lowered it. Raised rank for CR and now you can buy it even cheaper. To me that's a fix.

Point is. How long did they make us wait to fix these things? Not long.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think we should give them a chance and be a little more patient. I'm sure they cannot afford to disappoint anymore people as they already did. That would only make the game worse. And because I see how they have been responding lately is why I have been so defensive for the DEV team.

In my opinion, I don't see him trying.

I see talk, and not much of that. I see a lot of silence and some talk. I haven't seen much done.

You're saying give him a chance, and you assume we haven't. We never get action.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

In my opinion, I don't see him trying.

I see talk, and not much of that. I see a lot of silence and some talk. I haven't seen much done.

You're saying give him a chance, and you assume we haven't. We never get action.

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Yeah but the tables have turned. Lots of pressure with FF14 around the corner.

My question is how much work do you think an artist, team of programmers, debugging, testing, graphics design artist, composers, musicians, recording studio, budget meetings, communicating with translators, feedback, responding to the community and so on do you think can fix everything people complain about?

How much time can you make your team do all of this? They are human beings too. In fact I'm surprised they could even release so much in 1 month with the previous 2 updates.

As I said if I did not see any improvements since before July and August update, I was already prepared to drop the game and move to 14.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Understood so now here's my point of view. FFX14 launches on the 27th. Devs know people are quitting. They know they need to do their best to keep us interested. It's their job and its pretty scary to be in Matsui's position right now because remember when 14 first failed? The worst disaster in final fantasy history. I'd hate to be the guy who ended an 11 year game entrusted to me to keep it going because I couldn't keep the fanbase happy.

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You see these complaints? You see them popping up all the time and not going away? These are not signs of a happy playerbase. If you want to see a happy playerbase you can not change the games direction radically while outdating some of the most popular and time taking things in every way relevant and then on top of it do very little to fix the issues your players have, and what you are doing that they ask, you put at the back of the line while you work on more things they think of as less important.

They changed the progression and speed of this game again, kept all of the annoying and horrible drops still, outdated RMEs as well as 90% of the rest of the game, and have received many complaints about it. Many people quit not long after Adoulin came out, more after Delve, and more even recently I am sure. As a whole, the playerbase does not seem happy, and the attempts to fix the issues we have such as RMEs seem so far at the back of the line it will be months before we see any update to fix the issues, after FFXIV comes out. So while you are pointing out he needs to keep the fanbase happy, he seems to be doing a horrible job at it. The best thing, or rather most well received thing to happen since Adoulin's release has been Monstrosity, which is great and fun, but will only last so long, people will eventually grow tired of leveling each type of mob starting at level 1 each time over and over again, fighting in the same areas at the same levels with the same targets. For now, its very enjoyable, but it will only last a while before it becomes boring to most.

As you said, he very likely knows that people will be quitting for FFXIV, and needs to keep us interested, so tell me, why is it they are doing more things which are chasing us away? I assure you, WK Reives and the time I have spent on them are not a great feature that would keep me playing, they are adding to the reasons for me to quit and move to FFXIV. So I can assure you, if his goal is to keep people here & playing this game, if he does not want to be known as the man who brought down the 11 year old FF game, he better fix some of this shit right now, because he has less than 20 days till FFXIV releases, and a ton of unhappy people will be leaving.

No offense intended, it truly perplexes me how you can see the last several months as signs of good things. I see a lot of things that we weren't asking for.

Mog garden has its uses..I guess, but most days I get about 20k in npc'able stuff. How much time was wasted on that? It's not really gardening, it is its very own thing.. and noone was asking for it. It's nice to be able to npc things straight my moogle but they could have done that a long time ago, with the moogle in every mh.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

No offense intended, it truly perplexes me how you can see the last several months as signs of good things. I see a lot of things that we weren't asking for.

Mog garden has its uses..I guess, but most days I get about 20k in npc'able stuff. How much time was wasted on that? It's not really gardening, it is its very own thing.. and noone was asking for it. It's nice to be able to npc things straight my moogle but they could have done that a long time ago, with the moogle in every mh.

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I never said several months, I said the last 2 months have shown me the Devs made much better improvements enough to prove they are working harder.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

My question is how much work do you think an artist, team of programmers, debugging, testing, graphics design artist, composers, musicians, recording studio, budget meetings, communicating with translators, feedback, responding to the community and so on do you think can fix everything people complain about?

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I will go by just WK Reives alone right now. Artist has nothing to do with drop rates, programmers do, debugging sure, testing yeah, graphics nope, composers nope, musicians nope, recording nope, budget meetings sure, translators nope, feedback sure, and responding to the community yeah. So out of your list the things that would be involved actually would be Programmers, Debugging it, Testing it, and looking at feedback while replying to it. Now, Programming I assume would be the most time taking, changing how the drops work and all, testing would be easy, throw a person in, give them a Brew, have them kill the NM, force it to repop instantly as well as give them the KI instantly, things I think would be easy for them, kill it again, do this over and over while dropping the items every time you have all 6, do this 25 times to make sure you get a gear drop each time, simple test, would easily see if it worked right I think. Feedback is simple too, look at forums, read forums, give devs a summery of player feedback, get told what to reply with if anything, have Com Rep make post in 5 minutes. Job is finished, players are happier.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I will go by just WK Reives alone right now. Artist has nothing to do with drop rates, programmers do, debugging sure, testing yeah, graphics nope, composers nope, musicians nope, recording nope, budget meetings sure, translators nope, feedback sure, and responding to the community yeah. So out of your list the things that would be involved actually would be Programmers, Debugging it, Testing it, and looking at feedback while replying to it. Now, Programming I assume would be the most time taking, changing how the drops work and all, testing would be easy, throw a person in, give them a Brew, have them kill the NM, force it to repop instantly as well as give them the KI instantly, things I think would be easy for them, kill it again, do this over and over while dropping the items every time you have all 6, do this 25 times to make sure you get a gear drop each time, simple test, would easily see if it worked right I think. Feedback is simple too, look at forums, read forums, give devs a summery of player feedback, get told what to reply with if anything, have Com Rep make post in 5 minutes. Job is finished, players are happier.

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DJ you know very well SE doesn't adjust 1 thing. Look at the last 2 updates July and August. They just adjusted Colonization rate which also effects WR and reduced the amount of Bayld it takes to purchase a Ki. With this change alone do you think does nothing to WR?

Then it takes time to read and watch to see how the new adjustments works. Decide which complaints to address, pile onto the million on the other complaints DEV team is working on.

You do know DEVs just don't make instant schedules and say "Hey today I'm going to work on WR because I just read a post created 3 days ago."

Seriously?

Do you know how long it takes to produce music? Some days I can write a simple track in 4 hours or take up to a month or more. Then mixdown a few days, mastering a day or 2.

Listen to one of my remixes Wondergirls - Like Money. Also has one of my DJ mixes up.
Http://Soundcloud.com/djsparrownyc

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

You see these complaints? You see them popping up all the time and not going away? These are not signs of a happy playerbase. If you want to see a happy playerbase you can not change the games direction radically while outdating some of the most popular and time taking things in every way relevant and then on top of it do very little to fix the issues your players have, and what you are doing that they ask, you put at the back of the line while you work on more things they think of as less important.

They changed the progression and speed of this game again, kept all of the annoying and horrible drops still, outdated RMEs as well as 90% of the rest of the game, and have received many complaints about it. Many people quit not long after Adoulin came out, more after Delve, and more even recently I am sure. As a whole, the playerbase does not seem happy, and the attempts to fix the issues we have such as RMEs seem so far at the back of the line it will be months before we see any update to fix the issues, after FFXIV comes out. So while you are pointing out he needs to keep the fanbase happy, he seems to be doing a horrible job at it. The best thing, or rather most well received thing to happen since Adoulin's release has been Monstrosity, which is great and fun, but will only last so long, people will eventually grow tired of leveling each type of mob starting at level 1 each time over and over again, fighting in the same areas at the same levels with the same targets. For now, its very enjoyable, but it will only last a while before it becomes boring to most.

As you said, he very likely knows that people will be quitting for FFXIV, and needs to keep us interested, so tell me, why is it they are doing more things which are chasing us away? I assure you, WK Reives and the time I have spent on them are not a great feature that would keep me playing, they are adding to the reasons for me to quit and move to FFXIV. So I can assure you, if his goal is to keep people here & playing this game, if he does not want to be known as the man who brought down the 11 year old FF game, he better fix some of this shit right now, because he has less than 20 days till FFXIV releases, and a ton of unhappy people will be leaving.

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And I would have agreed if we didn't see any updates, no improvements, no responses from Matsui himself.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Seriously?

Do you know how long it takes to produce music?

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No, but I also know music is not coding, and music has nothing to do with this kind of adjustment as the music is in the game already, nothing need be changed on that, only the drop rates, which should be as simple as changing a few numbers around.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

No, but I also know music is not coding, and music has nothing to do with this kind of adjustment as the music is in the game already, nothing need be changed on that, only the drop rates, which should be as simple as changing a few numbers around.

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Well yeah I know that >.> that doesn't mean it's not time consuming in ones schedule to go over music and figure out where to put it.

I'm thinking of Matsui.

Changing a few numbers? Lol I'm not arging about changing WR. I'm arging that it takes time to implement adjustments. They just changed WR, does it not make sense to give them time to see how the new adjustments are working? Get feedback from everyone before adjusting it again? Not like its an emergency where they should shutdown all the servers for 12 hours.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

And I would have agreed if we didn't see any updates, no improvements, no responses from Matsui himself.

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The problem is Matsui talks a ton, but seems to hardly get things done that really make us happy. As I said, the only event which I have seen come from this game post-Adoulin is Monstrosity. He has failed to make Reives fun, they have an impossible time creating a balance that allows everyone to be rewarded the same, honestly, before this update it was perfect except for afk people, and Elemental Magic. They fixed Elemental Magic and afk people, but fucked up everything else it seems. Had they made it so performing an action on a mob or the objective automatically qualified you for the final evaluation, and fixed the Elemental Magic issue, it would be fine, instead, they messed with everything, and now it sucks again. Skirmish was to hard to get things for, they keep making it easier, but its pointless now cause of Delve. Delve is great except its boring & repetitive after a while. Wks are unrewarding if your unlucky, which many people are, which makes it not only annoying, but also flat out infuriating when you spend hours working to kill a NM to walk away with a worthless rock. Coalition Assignments are fine, except half of them are boring and to much work, or flat out stupid to do, like walking all the way from Adoulin across 7 different zones just to take supplies to some guy to get a waypoint built so you can get out there more easily.

All in all, I like that Matsui responds, yes, I just wish it did not always seem to be a bunch of talk with few results. If he wants to fix this game, listen to the players, stop making a ton of new things, stop doing improvements without telling us about them when they are really not improvements but rather, problems waiting to happen, and stop just moving forward when there are issues you create behind you along the way. He needs to stop at some point and clean up the mess he made, and he has yet to do it without simply making another mess at the same time it seems.

"It sometimes seems like we're only reponding to people who agree with us" is not validating those who disagree with them. That sentence could as easily finish with "but we're not" or "and that's because we are".

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

The problem is Matsui talks a ton, but seems to hardly get things done that really make us happy.

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From what I read on a previous post was that Matsui decided not to give anymore yearly roadmaps and just go with the flow at the moment than make promises he cannot keep because things change over time.

He did give us a 2 month roadmap July & August and came through with his word.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...142#post448142

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Up until now we have released year-long roadmaps for FFXI.

We also tried releasing half-year roadmaps as well; however, the further out we write a schedule the less accurate it becomes, and we are only able to let you know about major and limited content.

As a result, many have been disappointed because of schedule changes, it's been difficult to make frequent updates to it, and there are too many cons to having this, so we'll be changing it so we provide something like the current style moving forward where we go over what will be in the version update to come.

We appreciate your understanding.

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That's why my POV has changed.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

He did give us a 2 month roadmap July & August and came through with his word.

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He kept his word, I give him that, but here is the issue, he told us a bunch of things he would do when very little of it all was actually good or well received. I have to ask myself every time something like this comes up, where are Cait Sigh and Atomos? The second expansion of Meeble Burrows? The extra use for Crystal Petrifacts? Haste II? RDM's unique Enfeebles? The new UI? The other hundred things which were promised between now and 3 years ago which never came about, where are all of those things? I understand trying to work on new things but he is doing nothing relevant to old promises or content. Right now he is talking about updating JSE & RMEs, no idea of when, very little details, and these are very big things that to some people such as myself could mean the difference between staying & leaving. At the rate he is going with things, eventually people will lose interest anyways, and simply leave, then even if it does happen they will no longer care anyways. How many things has he done that the players have requested versus how many things has he done which were not requested, but rather were their own ideas they were implementing? If the latter out weighs the former and players are quitting, they are doing it wrong. When your player base starts to leave you and your still doing mostly what you think is best while doing very little that the players are asking for, your only asking to continue to fail.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

He kept his word, I give him that, but here is the issue, he told us a bunch of things he would do when very little of it all was actually good or well received. I have to ask myself every time something like this comes up, where are Cait Sigh and Atomos? The second expansion of Meeble Burrows? The extra use for Crystal Petrifacts? Haste II? RDM's unique Enfeebles? The new UI? The other hundred things which were promised between now and 3 years ago which never came about, where are all of those things? I understand trying to work on new things but he is doing nothing relevant to old promises or content. Right now he is talking about updating JSE & RMEs, no idea of when, very little details, and these are very big things that to some people such as myself could mean the difference between staying & leaving. At the rate he is going with things, eventually people will lose interest anyways, and simply leave, then even if it does happen they will no longer care anyways. How many things has he done that the players have requested versus how many things has he done which were not requested, but rather were their own ideas they were implementing? If the latter out weighs the former and players are quitting, they are doing it wrong. When your player base starts to leave you and your still doing mostly what you think is best while doing very little that the players are asking for, your only asking to continue to fail.

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And don't you think it's common sense that if he released a new expansion where things didn't work out as planned to fix that first because that's more important especially when a good portion of the community threatened to rage quit after The REM drama? Previous content was made irrelevant? Skirmish killed because people were skipping his Tier plan?

Seriously DJ I would love to see him fix RDM just as bad as you but to me SoA is a much bigger issue because everyone complained it was lacking. Barely any quests other than go here. Thank you go there. Yes now do this and come back. The end.

He apologized, admitted he wasn't doing things right and even stated he was going to work harder. Gave us a 2 month road map and came through with his word.

Rather than seeing the improvements, is it better to hold a grudge?

Ever since Adoulin was released, I feel like the player base is decreasing with every update, and it seems like this is going to continue.

If you really want to proceed with content levels and items levels, I really think you should hurry and address inventory issues and improve the job disparity due to item levels.

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[Matsui] If it seems that way, it's just my inadequacy and I will do my best to work harder on this.

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Had they not adjusted Colonization Rieves making it easier, colonization rate to last longer, reduce Bayld from 100k to buy ki, I wonder how many people would you find to even do Wildskeeper Reives? Would we not be in a worse state than now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daemon

And don't you think it's common sense that if he released a new expansion where things didn't work out as planned to fix that first because that's more important especially when a good portion of the community threatened to rage quit after The REM drama? Previous content was made irrelevant? Skirmish killed because people were skipping his Tier plan?

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I think its common sense to do something to make the playerbase happy right after you piss them off so they don't all leave you. The RME thing pissed a lot of people off, rather than fix the issue immediately and make everyone happy, it has been I believe 3 months now and yet no word on an actual release date or much of any details at all except them saying it will happen, some day, sometime. I also think doing what you said you would do, or the company as an entity said it would do before, should be done first, or at least should be worked on at the same time. Simply making promises or statements then acting as though they never happened in the first place does nothing more than make your players lose faith in your word, and question every statement or promise you make. Really with them its the boy who cried wolf, they keep crying that RMEs will be updated, RMEs will be updated, but where are they?

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Seriously DJ I would love to see him fix RDM just as bad as you but to me SoA is a much bigger issue because everyone complained it was lacking. Barely any quests other than go here. Thank you go there. Yes now do this and come back. The end.

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The point was not about RDM it was about the fact he says things which never happen, never finished what was previously promised. There are many other things, DRK Fast Cast for instance, which never happened, never have happened, and seem to never be happening. Monstrosity is actually about a year late, or at least 6 months or so late if I am not mistaken from the old plans. While I understand he can not get everything done exactly when they said, I have to say I am fairly fuckin disappointed that with the money we pay them as a whole they could not get some of this content out before half a year or more had passed.

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He apologized, admitted he wasn't doing things right and even stated he was going to work harder. Gave us a 2 month road map and came through with his word.

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Yes he did, part of the issue is he said he wasn't doing things right, part of that is he is doing things in the wrong order, and at the same time, made a roadmap which showed he wanted to work on things in the wrong order still, and went ahead and did it. I am happy he kept his word, I am not happy he did not do it better, if he wants to show he knows he is doing things in a way we rather him not, he needs to show it by changing how he is doing them, that, is something he has not done.

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Rather than seeing the improvements, is it better to hold a grudge?

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Its nothing about a grudge, its about him failing to move the game forward. He is making people leave, he is making the game more annoying, giving less reason to play by outdating the majority of things not long after their release, making the game transform into something it was not. I hold no grudge, but I hate what he is doing, my only way to tell them that, is to voice it, as I do here, every single day I can. The problem this thread was made to address is one of my larges issues by far, and has not been addressed by even a single rep a single time, that disappoints me greatly, and shows how much they try to respond to feedback.

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Had they not adjusted Colonization Rieves making it easier, colonization rate to last longer, reduce Bayld from 100k to buy ki, I wonder how many people would you find to even do Wildskeeper Reives? Would we not be in a worse state than now?

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Did it help? Yes, does it still suck? Yes.

I dunno man I thought even you said they only have a small team after the majority went over to 14.

Are you reading his responses?

It seems he is trying to address issues.
No matter how much adjustments they do, I just don't see any DEV team having the ability to make huge adjustments bigger than what they have been doing in such a short time. It's not easy balancing a game this big stuck with ps2 limits.

PS2 [13 years old technology]
Memory 32 MB of Direct RAMBUS or RDRAM 4 MB eDRAM

VS.

iPhone 5 [Today's technology]
System memory:
1016 MB RAM

http://m.techradar.com/news/phone-an...ox-360-1141979

Lol...

Thing about balance. The bigger the adjustment, the bigger the effects are, not just good but also bad effects.


Inventory Issues

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We are also looking into Gobbiebags, but as there are risks that these will cause other inconveniences such, as items not displaying right away when logging in or changing areas, we would like to closely investigate methods that have low risk and have a high possibility of realizing (including methods other than Gobbiebags).

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Paladin

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We'd like to avoid the consequences of nerfing Ochain, and have selected to add stats to shields we introduce here on out so they can gradually get closer to the stats of Ochain. If anything is unclear with these intentions, please let me know.

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Summoner

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Equipment that has "Avatar Lv. ***" has accuracy and other stats built into it.
We will be adding Avatar Lv. 114 and higher equipment in the future.

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Ninja

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Similar to the adjustments of the damage values for physical blue magic spells, this adjustment will only be applied to ninja when it is your main job.

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Redmage Bluemage Darkknight

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I believe it looked as if red mage was left out of the equation with the question I answered yesterday that was phrased "How will you be enhancing magical accuracy for blue mage, dark knight, and ninja?"

Sorry about that.

The plan is not limited to only these jobs and we will be boosting magical accuracy based on the "combat skill +" added to weapons in general.

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Looks to me he has a lot on his plate. Can only do so much per update I mean, small team.

Game programming
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_(game_design)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynam...ulty_balancing

Stuff I went over during a Game programming course:
Anything in 3D is going to require a good working understanding of mathematics. 2D will too if you want physics or dynamic environments.

These days, a typical commercial game might take 100,000 lines of C++ code written by a team of 3 programmers over a period of 18 months with a budget of a million dollars.

Surely this games has more than 100,000 lines of coding to dig through and adjust...

Knowledge requirements:

Programming
Assembly Level Programming
Computer Architecture
Software Engineering
Computer Graphics
Data Structures
Algorithms
Communication Networks
AI and Expert Systems
Human Factors
Mathematics
Physics

Lol... After I saw what was required when taking courses in computer programming I lost interest in learning Game Programming.

Point is its not easy.

If that doesn't change your point of view then I dunno..

It doesn't, but I grow tired of this argument which is going no where. The entire argument that has gone on for pages upon pages is all very far stretched from the original topic. The original topic of which I most definitely agree, WKs need fixed to be rewarding so that people are not spending an extreme amount of time for an extremely lackluster reward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

It doesn't, but I grow tired of this argument which is going no where. The entire argument that has gone on for pages upon pages is all very far stretched from the original topic. The original topic of which I most definitely agree, WKs need fixed to be rewarding so that people are not spending an extreme amount of time for an extremely lackluster reward.

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Which I agreed, I just don't think making rare drops guaranteed is a reasonable solution.