New 2-hour Abilities

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Originally Posted by Zirael

You bring PLD to zergs?

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I'm more confused by the implication that a sch would be at a zerg and not have already used their 2hour. If you're zerging without embrava, but you have it at your disposal, you're doing something very, very wrong...

Scholars new 2hr ability: Force death on afk leechers in abyssea exp parties.

Seriously though, Would you be zerging with only one party? Or would you be wasting a SCH 2hr in every party? Because putting all of one parties hate on the "Tank" doesn't really do diddly squat in an alliance.

/sadface

So thief does just get trick attack.

Maybe the trick attack version could be good if it does like 5000+ damage.

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Originally Posted by Cowardlybabooon

Maybe the trick attack version could be good if it does like 5000+ damage.

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A MightyStrikes-WAR or Souleater-DRK next to you will be spamming 5000 Resolutions every five seconds in a proper zerg. I'm not even joking.

It was bad enough that most of these 2hrs seem like abilities that should have a recast of more like 5-10 minutes... but now we're told we need to choose between these or our older (in most cases superior) 2hrs? What part of this seemed like a good idea again?

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Originally Posted by Calamity

It was bad enough that most of these 2hrs seem like abilities that should have a recast of more like 5-10 minutes... but now we're told we need to choose between these or our older (in most cases superior) 2hrs? What part of this seemed like a good idea again?

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I agree. They should have put the old abilities (or some of these) onto a separate timer and in many cases wayyyyyy shorter.

So here's my question, will there be more 2 hour abilities too come? Or is this it. Just kind of curious.

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

So here's my question, will there be more 2 hour abilities too come? Or is this it. Just kind of curious.

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Dude, if this is what they believe new 2hrs should be, I don't want any more -.-

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Originally Posted by Camate

these new 2-hour abilities will share the recast timers of the original 2-hour abilities, so players can choose which one to use based on the situation.

Finally, in regards to a question about thief’s ability:
The major damage dealt will be a single attack. You can kind of think of it as the way Sneak Attack is used.

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SE once again proves that they have no idea how to develop their game.
Seriously. A good portion of these 2 hour abilities are much, much worse than the original 2 hours.
Most of them are better suited for a Job Ability on a 10-20 minute timer.
I thought they were bad enough NOT sharing a cooldown...but now, lol.

Please scrap this and try again. I sincerely ask this of you.

So I read the list and all I can say is..................

THF: should be constant emnity transfer to person infront, Critical rate and damage increased, doesn't effect weaponskills.

RDM: Should be more along the lines of all self buffs become transferable to the party upon cast. Thats more i can save the party than i get a slightly stronger protect or stoneskin or phalanx or whatever you would envision "Enhance enhancement effect".

BST: Really? eat your pet? I would rather see something more along the lines of Recover Pet HP/TP and reset pet ability timers than eat my pet and attempt to save my own skin.

WHM: Should be something like high Regen Regain Phalanx and then Reraise 3 for the entire party. Embrava +2, protection from status aliments just is lackluster against Benediction. Unless it prevents instant KO, but somehow i doubt it.

SCH: This should just be changed to something else. I only see people using this to grief other players. Even if they have to be in your party, i can just see this being used to MPK people.

Thats my two cents!
~Chuk

Hey guys, I love whining as much as the next guy, but could we wait until they get to the test server before we start pouring the haterade?

Please change SCH new 2-hour abilite
I have 2 Ideas:

1-would be better to have the ability to use Embrava and kaustra
2-use the grimoire red (Crimson Grimoire) as if it were a pet

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Originally Posted by Keyln

Hey guys, I love whining as much as the next guy, but could we wait until they get to the test server before we start pouring the haterade?

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SCH's will be rubbish, it doesn't matter if it's on the test-server or not, unless it's a separate timer it'll be a waste....

RDM's was nerfed before even being added, enough said!

If these are just the descriptions, they might not be quite as bad as they sound.

Trance - While in effect, lowers TP cost of Waltzes and Steps to 0. (doesn't mention that it also reduces Waltz timers to a flat 6 seconds)

Perhaps the new DNC 2-hour does something similar! Otherwise it'll only really be good for one more WS every two hours.

I just don't get all the hate on the new sch 2 hour, it seems awsome to me although yes I will use it to mpk leeches in abyss, riight before I kick them. Don't get me wrong I love embrava but I've gone days without using my 2 hour, this wouldn'tbother me at all. It's not like its hard to stay alive and kill quickly anymore.

The amount of pure BS and not knowing their own game and what the player base want is utterly ridiculous on these new 2 hours idea, it's like they are completely out of touch with the player base and totally clueless on what those jobs do. I feel sorry for these reps that constantly have to deliver bad news after bad news. Ever since they finished with Abyssea content, everything else that come out from the developers are grade A craptastic grind fest content all in the name of cheap time sink that require very little effort from their end. With "barance" after "barance" right and left nerfing most of the jobs in the game.

If you so kindly forward the messages here to the developers in Japan, with a note: that there are non japanese players out there, who also have opinions and play this game and pay the monthly fees. As well as maybe try to emulate the vision and effort of one of your own visionary director that is currently handling the impossible task to save the mother of all disaster that is FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

SCH's will be rubbish, it doesn't matter if it's on the test-server or not, unless it's a separate timer it'll be a waste....

RDM's was nerfed before even being added, enough said!

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And maybe that nerf was necessary. And maybe the SCH 2 hour will have applicable uses when in party play (not everything is a zerg fest).

All I'm saying is at least we give a try on the test servers before we start whining about them. The way I see it, these abilities will simply not be used, and nothing will be gained, but nothing will be lost either.

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Originally Posted by Keyln

And maybe that nerf was necessary. And maybe the SCH 2 hour will have applicable uses when in party play (not everything is a zerg fest).

All I'm saying is at least we give a try on the test servers before we start whining about them. The way I see it, these abilities will simply not be used, and nothing will be gained, but nothing will be lost either.

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Yeah, a duration increase is so OP it's sickening..... Stupid Perpetuance.....

Do tell me in which way would SCH's new two-hour be more useful than a 15 minute spell that gives Regain, Haste and huge HP Regen? Remembering how easy it is to cap hate again.

Change most of these to being enmity based.

WAR - Attacks deal additional non-elemental damage proportional to enmity.
BLM - Elemental magic deals damage proportional to enmity.
BST - Pet deals additional damage proportional to its enmity.
RNG - EES but proportional to enmity, enmity is wiped after attack.
DRG - Delivers a jumping attack with damage proportional to enmity.
NIN - Mijin Gakure II, damage proportional to enmity and modified by number of shadows.
PLD - Physical attacks deal damage proportional to enmity.
THF - Transfers enmity to the player in front of you and inflicts bleed damage proportional to enmity.
SCH - Absorbs all enmity from party members and transfers it to the target, removing their enmity cap.

All of those 2Hrs wouldn't be weak either, with just the regular enmity cap PLD, BST and WAR would be dealing 1k damage per swing, BLM would be doing 20k Thunder Vs, DRG, RNG and NIN with full shadows would be doing 30k damage, THFs bleed damage would do 1k/tic. Stack it with SCHs 2Hr and you've got "We could zerg... Or we could one hit it".

OK, I'm not really being serious there (though THFs should inflict Bleed damage) I just want to illustrate a point: Why does SCH have anything enmity related?

Seriously, think about it. Why does SCH have anything related to seeing and controlling enmity when there is absolutely no tactical application for it? DDs can all pretty much tank. WHM doesn't gain enmity. BLM can wipe it clean completely. Literally the only jobs that have an issue with enmity that they can't natively deal with are perhaps RNG and SCH itself. What's the bloody point in giving a job pseudo-control over enmity when there is absolutely no point in controlling enmity? It's bad enough that the developers do absolutely nothing with this concept, it's actually a pretty decent concept (illustrated above, just tone it down a notch) that I was looking forward to when I was blissfully unaware back at Lv.75, then they gave me Libra which does absolutely nothing and is just annoying to use (because of the range on it), followed by Animus spells which are a waste of MP and certainly don't require Libra since they're just Pax and Anti-Pax. A year later they finally come back to the concept, with something that would actually sort of work... And it's a 2Hr... What? No.

Take SCHs new 2Hr, change it to an enmity based Sublimation and put it on a similar recast to Sublimation. Use it on Target A (can be self targeted), it stored their enmity over time up to a certain cap. Use it again on Target B, they gain the stored enmity (or, use it again, it enhances the effect of your next Animus spell, giving or removing the stored enmity depending on the spell). There, I can use Libra, see who's getting the most enmity that isn't the tank, use this on them to maximize its potential and then use it again to help with enmity control. Still fairly worthless because who the hell cares about enmity, but at least it's something.

A new SCH 2Hr if I think this one should just be a regular ability? As far as I'm concerned Embrava and Kaustra are SCHs new 2Hr, we just got them many months in advance. Tabula Rasa was adjusted when they tripled its duration and had it enhance Helices and Regen, Embrava and Kaustra should be a whole other 2Hr. I said as much when they first released Embrava and Kaustra followed by announcing every job would get new 2Hrs, and I'll do it again now: Why the hell did you waste an update only adding to SCHs 2Hr when you intend to add new 2Hrs anyway?
So, new SCH 2Hr:
Summa Omnium (Sum of All, if I'm not mistaken) - Grants access to Embrava or Kaustra for a single cast. Constitutes as a nerf as well, since it knocks Embravas duration down ~3 minutes and you can only apply it to a single PT.

Thanks for getting back to us so quick, Camate.

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Originally Posted by Camate

We are also planning to introduce a way to enhance the abilities via merit points, which will be the next step for adjustments planned for the latter half of 2012. While the specifics for this have not been decided at this time, the plan is to add this to each job category. Also, there won’t be any restrictions on which jobs you can enhance as it will be possible to put merit points into each one.

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This makes me feel a bit better about how lackluster most of the abilities seem to be.

The Development Bros are big fans of making the base level of something worse than sentient herpes if there is a way to improve on it. So if nothing else, the new two-hours make more sense to me compared to relatively recent additions such as Perfect Defense or Embrava now.

Plus, I can hold out hope to just merit the old two-hour abilities if some of these (Beastmaster and Blue Mage REPRESENT) are as sad and broken on even a conceptual level as they sound.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Finally, in regards to a question about thief’s ability:

The major damage dealt will be a single attack. You can kind of think of it as the way Sneak Attack is used.

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And this makes me feel worse again! In the best case scenario, this will at least have a DEX/AGI modifier so it scales better with level than Eagle Eye Shot. In the worst case scenario, Eagle Eye Shot.

After saying it so many times, Eagle Eye Shot is haunting this topic. Rattling all 5.0 of its chains and moaning, "Thee~eeee chii~iiii~llld~'sss sss~ooo~uuu~llll iiis mii~ine! ONE OF US!" as it looks upon the birth of the saddest of the incoming two-hour abilities.

A new 2 hours ability should be extremely overpowered and game changing since you can only use it every 2 hours. It should mean to turn the tide of battles, from no chance of winning to ensure your chance of WIN. Embrava + Kaustra were developed during the golden age of Abyssea - as well as puppetmaster update and dragoon. Perhaps the developers should hire that same group who came up with this fantastic idea instead of spewing up bullshit after bullshit of ideas.

To Red Mages requesting a buff transfer as a new 2-hour . . .

I'd much rather have that as a regular Ability, thank you very much. \('_'\)

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Originally Posted by Camate

new 2-hour abilities will share the recast timers of the original 2-hour abilities.

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WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New?
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=New
NIN=New
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=New
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

A new 2 hours ability should be extremely overpowered and game changing since you can only use it every 2 hours. It should mean to turn the tide of battles, from no chance of winning to ensure your chance of WIN. Embrava + Kaustra were developed during the golden age of Abyssea - as well as puppetmaster update and dragoon. Perhaps the developers should hire that same group who came up with this fantastic idea instead of spewing up bullshit after bullshit of ideas.

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Very much agreed, the most overpowered 2-hours in the game are Tabula Rasa, and Astral Flow, not because of their normal effects however, its due to the spells/summonings available during them. Embrava, Kaustra, Perfect Defense, and Instant Death, are all great. Why not have more 2-hours like this, that warrant a long recast like a 2-hour has?

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Plus, I can hold out hope to just merit the old two-hour abilities if some of these (Beastmaster and Blue Mage REPRESENT) are as sad and broken on even a conceptual level as they sound.

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I hate to say it, but I would be really surprised if they let us merit the old abilities. Could you imagine if perfect defense and embrava got even more powerful?

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Originally Posted by Keyln

And maybe that nerf was necessary. And maybe the SCH 2 hour will have applicable uses when in party play (not everything is a zerg fest).

All I'm saying is at least we give a try on the test servers before we start whining about them. The way I see it, these abilities will simply not be used, and nothing will be gained, but nothing will be lost either.

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Honestly, so many of these are either conceptually terrible or blatant repeats of abilities jobs already have that we don't even need them to hit the test server to see how terrible they are.

However, knowing SE, it's going to play out like this:
- This thread gets posted
- Everyone is disappointed by how much the new 2 hours suck
- SE says that they have no intention of drastically altering any of these abilities, they will only adjust values and potencies
- Everyone reiterates how terrible these abilities are, despite SE refusing to listen to our feedback
- new 2hours go live on the test server
- Everyone gets on and confirms that most of these abilities are useless/terrible, and the ones that aren't end up being even weaker than they sounded on paper due to horribly short durations, or draw-backs SE conveniently forgot to mention
- Everyone continues to explain to SE why these new 2hours are terrible and why most of them need to be completely redesigned
- SE ignores feed back, as per always, and releases the new 2 hours as they are on the test server, only changing some values here or there to weaken some of the stronger ones for BALANCE.
- SE manages to yet again affirm that it doesn't care about NA player feed back at all.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists, unless fighting something that can hundred fists right back
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New, while crying
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New, unless it sucks, then it'll still be bloodweapon/souleater
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=Meikyo Shisui, unless fighting an Ironclad or some other TP-move melee attack monster, then either/or
NIN=New, unless they want a free warp later
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow (if PD is necessary), otherwise New
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=Neither, because they're both terrible and not worth using over having your 2hour on a different job
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

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Fixed for accuracy

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Originally Posted by Keyln

Hey guys, I love whining as much as the next guy, but could we wait until they get to the test server before we start pouring the haterade?

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Why? Some of them are so bad (for a 2-hour timer), that they need to be reassessed right away, before they waste time and money with their implementation on to the test server.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New?
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=New
NIN=New
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=New
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

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If I didn't have this terrible suspicion that SE would make it amount to like 5tp per hit AND be highly resistable on anything that counts, I'd probably agree. But I refuse outright to get my hopes up for this in any way.

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Originally Posted by Calamity

If I didn't have this terrible suspicion that SE would make it amount to like 5tp per hit AND be highly resistable on anything that counts, I'd probably agree. But I refuse outright to get my hopes up for this in any way.

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5TP/Hit on a 5hit build should make it a 4hit build so wouldn't be so bad in all honesty :x

as for the other remark on my list...

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MNK=Hundred Fists, unless fighting something that can hundred fists right back
THF=New, while crying
DRK=New, unless it sucks, then it'll still be bloodweapon/souleater
SAM=Meikyo Shisui, unless fighting an Ironclad or some other TP-move melee attack monster, then either/or
NIN=New, unless they want a free warp later
SMN=Astral Flow (if PD is necessary), otherwise New
PUP=Neither, because they're both terrible and not worth using over having your 2hour on a different job

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MNK I agree, but still, not alot of things use HF so I figured not worth noting.
THF, yeah, shitty choices, new looks... somewhat more useful than PDodge is now days... I think.
DRK I figure it will be better than BW in almost all cases as long as it doesn't completely suck , but I could be wrong.
SAM I figure alot/most endgame mobs that have been added recently are TP attacking mobs (Harpia, Ironclads, Naraka...) so it would be the more likely if your 2-houring, not to mention imo the best use of Meikyo Shisui is gone seeing as it was for SCing :x.
NIN yeah, has a free warp or can lose weakness but at the same time I don't see it as such a good thing as the current 2-hour is... well... suicide, not alot of battle usage.
SMN soloing yes, new will be great, however~ anything party related, SMN will have no use at all, which is why I said Astral, same with RDM & Chainspell, outside of partys I never chainspell really, but enhancing buffs doesn't seem likely because if you want that, you get a SCH for Embrava, RDM is for Chainspell.
PUP yeah, PUP's may not be to good, same as THF, same as NIN, but still, out of the 2 the new one is probably what will be used more often than not.

May as well bet on it already the DRK one will yet again be Nigh useless on anything Undead.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

.....lolpup2h.....

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If the current PUP 2 hour was 3-5 minutes (and maybe had some sort of minor refresh, regain, and regen) instead of 1 minute then it would not be such junk, but the new one is at least better than the old one. Certainly better than not 2 houring at all if you are on the job.

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Originally Posted by Raucent

May as well bet on it already the DRK one will yet again be Nigh useless on anything Undead.

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Nigh useless is being optimistic, it it drains tp as it says, it will in fact be, completely useless. Can I have the new sam 2hr instead?

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

A new 2 hours ability should be extremely overpowered and game changing since you can only use it every 2 hours.

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I severely disagree. No 2 hours should be overpowered like that, because it will lead to Embrava situations all over again. Events don't happen often enough for the 2 hours to be an issue. So what if you have to take a 2 hour break between Odin and Legion? If everyone gets insanely overpowered killer abilities every two hours, that's exactly what would happen. People would keep abusing them and normal gameplay would lose all of its current value at endgame.

I don't care how (much more) unpopular this will make me sound, but I'll say it: remove all 2 hour abilities. They're a design flaw. In a game with sparse events like this waiting two hours means nothing if 2 hour abilities are overpowered, and people will do just that, wait for their timers. If they aren't overpowered though, they won't even be worth using due to their huge delay and will always remain very situational. My suggestion is weaken their effects and make them all on a 5~10min recast. I know it would break many current strategies (and by that I mean the one strategy everyone uses on everything, namely Embrava and Perfect Defense zerg), but it seems like the only reasonable thing to do to keep the gameplay this game was designed on in the game somehow, because right now it isn't.

So.... THF's new 2hour is going to be a 1-hit Ability.

I wonder if its going to be weaker than a Normal Trick Attack WS. My bet is... Yes. Significantly weaker, to the point I'll probably stick to Keeping Perfect Dodge timer up incase I get links in Dynamis or something.

Oh... Poop. I promised myself i wouldn't be negative about updates. I can't help myself. :(

Thanks for the update :)!

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Originally Posted by Camate

We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

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Translation: Quit your bitching till you try them.

Response: No. Most of these aren't even mildly good with the most over-optimistic fantasies about best-case-scenario effects and durations.

So here's a question, SE: Who do abilities have to be on 2 hour timers anyway? I mean we have abilities that range from 15 seconds to 15 minutes, and then there are no abilities on a cooldown between 15 minutes and 2 hours. Can't you just add these new abilities on a 30 minute timer or something? Or let the cooldown actually vary based on the power of the ability. 30-60 minutes is enough to make these abilities feel special, and not something you just throw out whenever the ability has cooled down.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

And this makes me feel worse again! In the best case scenario, this will at least have a DEX/AGI modifier so it scales better with level than Eagle Eye Shot. In the worst case scenario, Eagle Eye Shot.

After saying it so many times, Eagle Eye Shot is haunting this topic. Rattling all 5.0 of its chains and moaning, "Thee~eeee chii~iiii~llld~'sss sss~ooo~uuu~llll iiis mii~ine! ONE OF US!" as it looks upon the birth of the saddest of the incoming two-hour abilities.

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It'll be hilarious if Auto Eye Shot actually deals good damage when used by an automaton ;D

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Originally Posted by Theytak

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WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists, unless fighting something that can hundred fists right back
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New, while crying
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New, unless it sucks, then it'll still be bloodweapon/souleater
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=Meikyo Shisui, unless fighting an Ironclad or some other TP-move melee attack monster, then either/or
NIN=New, unless they want a free warp later
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow (if PD is necessary), otherwise New
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=Neither, because they're both terrible and not worth using over having your 2hour on a different job
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

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Fixed for accuracy

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mnk: disagree, HF is near useless in zerg situation (cap delay reduction without it), the new one adds some extra hit
sam:same, with embrava/tactical you WS as fast without MS (you don't get TP while MS)+no dmg taken from physical AOEs

I agree with all who say these "2-hour" abilities seem more like 10 - 20 minute abilities instead.

Honestly, I was expecting to see something that would stand out and make my jaw drop.

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Originally Posted by Tanama

I agree with all who say these "2-hour" abilities seem more like 10 - 20 minute abilities instead.

Honestly, I was expecting to see something that would stand out and make my jaw drop.

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After what we have seen with Astral Flow & Tabula Rasa thanks to the additions of Embrava, Kaustra, Alexander, and Odin, I think we all were, and we were all disappointed in some way as soon as we started to hear about these.