Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

Considering they've planned their updates out as far as March, they're pretty much saying nothing more than "We've thought of doing this, however we currently have not allocated the time to implement it". They've got a whole new zone planned so I imagine they're quite strapped for extra time.

Best case scenario they change their mind, but I don't think they'll buck the trend of Relic weapons representing each weapon type rather than job - the furthest they could go I imagine is adding a Relic Grimoire and Animator for the ammo slots of Scholar and Puppetmaster. Adding what would effectively be copies of existing weapons just to make people work harder is highly unlikely (and when I say make people work harder I mean us and the developers).

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Mandau triple damage favors a DNC far more than the ODD from Twashtar because a DNC doesn't spam RS unless they want to gimp their damage. In abyssea they spam Evisceration and outside they spam DE. They get to use RS once every 90 seconds when climactic flourish is up. That's 30% ODD 33% of the time at optimal performance which is not gonna happen vs. 12% Triple damage 100% of the time. MATHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

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Empyrean ODD can proc on the second and third hit of double and triple attack, the ODD/ODT on relics can only proc on the first hit.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

SE practically confirms what I'm saying when they said they're thinking about putting new jobs on Relic weapons.

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What they actually said was that they aren't going to do it. "we considered it but have no current plans to do it" has always been SE speak for "hell no we're not doing that"

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

What they actually said was that they aren't going to do it. "we considered it but have no current plans to do it" has always been SE speak for "hell no we're not doing that"

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Expect you know, the whole level cap thing I just said 3 posts ago.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Empyrean ODD can proc on the second and third hit of double and triple attack, the ODD/ODT on relics can only proc on the first hit.

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I'm aware of this but it doesn't effect DNC that much outside of abyssea as they don't have a particularly high DA or TA rate without atmas. 13% DA (23% if /war) and 3% TA? I may be forgetting a bunch of gear since I haven't leveled DNC because it can't use Mandau. But.. using those numbers:

1000 attack rounds 1283 swings
Twashtar - 128 ODD procs
Mandau - 120 Triple procs - Equivalent damage increase of 180 ODD procs.

In abyssea with 23% DA and 28% TA (Apoc and AO)

1000 attack rounds 1790 swings
Twashtar - 179 ODD procs
Mandau - 120 Triple procs - Equivalent damage increase of 180 ODD procs.

Now RS will do more damage with Climactic flourish because of it's stat mod and the atmas your are using inside abyssea but then you have to look at the fact that the DEX you get from Twashtar amounts to almost nothing but a WS mod since your dDEX and acc will be capped. Your pDif however will not and there just happens to be 35 att on mandau and increased crit rate from the MS aftermath. In abyssea I would say they are too close to call but outside, from my perspective, Mandau takes the lead for DNC.

All this favors Twashtar by quite a bit too because it assumes you are never not fighting and you never have to wait on timers or TP and your aftermath is never up while you are moving to a new mob and you never kill the mob with the first swing on your main hand. In other words a situation which does not exist. It also assumes /war which may not always be the case.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Expect you know, the whole level cap thing I just said 3 posts ago.

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So they might change their minds 5 or 6 years down the road. But for the forseeable future, they aren't going to do it.

(double post)

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

So they might change their minds 5 or 6 years down the road. But for the forseeable future, they aren't going to do it.

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Nope, all it means is while they wont do it now, doesnt mean they wont ever. They have said this many times before about other things as well. When they actually mean they wont, they don't even say that they have looked into it. They just say "the development team has no desire to add this"

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

So they might change their minds 5 or 6 years down the road. But for the forseeable future, they aren't going to do it.

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This is really bothering you deeply isn't it? It's like you're trying you're hardest to hope this will never happen.
What will you do if it does happen?

I'd say they should worry more about correcting the issues with the weapons themselves. Only a handful of them are worth getting over their mythic/empyrean counterparts. A lot of them suffer from a poor aftermath and/or a poor WS.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Yes, people who level the new jobs should have to get a new relic for them. It would be unfair to other players for them to start out having the super weapon for that job before anyone has even leveled that job or knew what kind of weapons it used.

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I hate to bring this up again, but, if I lvl RNG, and get the relic bow, then decide I want to lvl SAM/RNG to also use the bow, would I have to make a 2nd relic bow just to use for SAM? Because it seems to me that is what you are implying should happen.

I have a friend who Got a Mandau for her THF and decided to lvl BRD and RDM to use it also, are you saying she should have had to make 2 more Mandaus?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No. Blue mage being slapped on Excalibur means people who already got Excalibur long before Blue Mage came out get suddenly have the super weapon for that job the moment the job is released. That wouldn't be fair to the people who didn't know ahead of time that BLU was going to get the sword relic and that they could start working on the job's super weapon before the job even comes out.

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what?
because BLU was able to equip exca when BLU was released? or BLU doesn't exist yet and will only exist after SE add em on exca? we dont ask SE to get a time machineso they can go add blu on exca on AU release but to ad a job that existed for 5years on some older item

and how is that different than a RDM get exca then unlock and lvl PLD ?

your point is just stupid!

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I'm aware of this but it doesn't effect DNC that much outside of abyssea as they don't have a particularly high DA or TA rate without atmas. 13% DA (23% if /war) and 3% TA? I may be forgetting a bunch of gear since I haven't leveled DNC because it can't use Mandau. But.. using those numbers:

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Saber Dance!

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I have a friend who Got a Mandau for her THF and decided to lvl BRD and RDM to use it also, are you saying she should have had to make 2 more Mandaus?

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No, I'm not saying that at all. That dagger was created with those jobs in consideration. It was not created with DNC in consideration. DNC was not even out when the weapon was created. I feel it would be unfair for people to automatically have the best weapon for a NEW job when it comes out when everyone had to work for the best of most of the rest of the gear after the job's release. It also punishes people who started working on a relic with the understanding of what jobs could use it, only to have that suddenly change. I imagine there are some people who got this or that relic that would have regretted getting it if they knew they were going to play a new job and it used a different relic.

Maybe it seems kind of silly, and it's fine if you think so. I'm only giving an opinion, and I'm not trying to force you to agree with it. By all means, hate it, disagree with it if you want.

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I haven't leveled DNC because it can't use Mandau.

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Honestly one of the silliest things I've ever heard. It just goes to show how lazy relic users can be and how entitled to everything they feel they are. Heaven forbid you should need to get a new weapon for DNC. What if DNC didn't use daggers in the first place? Would you still be refusing to play it purely because you can't use your relic on it?

Regardless of what you think of the opinion I gave, SE has already weighed in on this. I don't really see any reason why this has to keep going on and on.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Regardless of what you think of the opinion I gave, SE has already weighed in on this. I don't really see any reason why this has to keep going on and on.

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Because the more and more people that show they want this change, the more and more SE will look further into and make this change.

They said they wont do it now, they didn't say they never will.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No, I'm not saying that at all. That dagger was created with those jobs in consideration. It was not created with DNC in consideration. DNC was not even out when the weapon was created. I feel it would be unfair for people to automatically have the best weapon for a NEW job when it comes out when everyone had to work for the best of most of the rest of the gear after the job's release. It also punishes people who started working on a relic with the understanding of what jobs could use it, only to have that suddenly change. I imagine there are some people who got this or that relic that would have regretted getting it if they knew they were going to play a new job and it used a different relic.

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You are right, that sounds very silly to me.

A newbie DNC who has to work for their Mandau is no different from a newbie THF who has to work for their Mandau. I seriously don't see how you can't understand this. If relics had been released before RotZ, would you be arguing that SAM shouldn't be added to the bow? or BRD shouldn't be added to the dagger? Or SMN shouldn't be added to Claustrum?

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A newbie DNC who has to work for their Mandau is no different from a newbie THF who has to work for their Mandau.

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It's very different. This isn't about a newbie making a new weapon. this is about people who already have the weapon before another job that might use it even exists.

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Or SMN shouldn't be added to Claustrum?

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Summoner does not require Zilart and isn't officially a Zilart job.

But yes, jobs should not be added to the weapons after the fact when those weapons were not designed with the existence of those jobs in mind. SE typically responded to this issue by adding new items.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You have no basis to declare the argument invalid. Your statement has no relevance to mine.

Basically, you want all existing staff/dagger/sword/gun relicholders to have a free pass to the ultimate weapons for the new jobs. We get it, I disagree and I feel that they must do some work before they have the best gear for a new job.

You're not going to convince me, I'm not going to convince you, it's time we ignore eachother and be on our way.

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Wrong. Working on a relic, even at this point of the game is NOT an easy endeavor. These jobs have already been around for far more than 4 years. Getting relic weapon, alone, is enough as it is. This isn't a free pass. They already spent a lot of effort making a relic weapon, why should they work on another relic weapon just for one job.

I'm close to finishing mandau myself for my THF, why do I have to work on another dagger when bard and red mage can also use mandau. This makes no sense.

Those five jobs shouldn't even be considered as new. Dancer and Scholar has been around for 4 years. Corsair, Blue Mage, and Puppetmaster has been around for five years.

Not to mention nearly every relic weapons are equipable by multiple jobs. So therefore, there is no reason for new relics to be made JUST because those 5 jobs are newer.

Basically what you're saying is, at the time I'll be getting Mandau, THF would the only job i have that could equip it. Leveling Red Mage and Bard to use it would be getting "free pass" to the weapon. The only different is, Dancer is a newer job compared to RDM and BRD. So I agree, that is a flawed and silly argument.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It's very different. This isn't about a newbie making a new weapon. this is about people who already have the weapon before another job that might use it even exists.

Summoner does not require Zilart and isn't officially a Zilart job.

But yes, jobs should not be added to the weapons after the fact. SE typically responded to this issue by adding new items.

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So, anyone that had Homam, Nashira, Crimson gear before BLU came out, should have to go back and re get those items if they got it before BLU was put on it back then?

SE was being shortsighted by not planning this change when they were planning to add new jobs. Hell it took them like, 2 years before they even added af1+1 and af2 for COR/BLU/PUP. This is just another thing that they have been dragging their ass on that needs to be changed.

Not everything SE does is right.

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why do I have to work on another dagger when bard and red mage can also use mandau.

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BECAUSE YOU DO! Making a relic doesn't give you some kind of magic entitlement to have the best weapon for every job that could use a dagger. It was designed for specific jobs, and those specific jobs only. X job and Y job using a weapon does not automatically mean job Z should also be able to use it.

Maybe they should have made a single relic weapon, and made it all jobs. It magically morphs to whatever weapon class your have the highest skill in. That way everyone would only need to make one superweapon to have the best weapon for every job in the game.

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Those five jobs shouldn't even be considered as new.

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I'm not speaking about right now. I'm speaking about when those jobs were released. Does a passage of X number of years suddenly justify a change?

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So, anyone that had Homam, Nashira, Crimson gear before BLU came out, should have to go back and re get those items if they got it before BLU was put on it back then?

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Huh? No, absolutely not. If an item has the job on it, then it has the job on it. We're talking about items that do not have the job, not items that do.

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SE was being shortsighted by not planning this change when they were planning to add new jobs. Hell it took them like, 2 years before they even added af1+1 and af2 for COR/BLU/PUP. This is just another thing that they have been dragging their ass on that needs to be changed.

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I 100% agree it was shortsighted- obviously they don't plan as far in advance as we might expect. That doesn't mean this situation needs changing, however.

It boggles my mind why people are even arguing about this when in essentially all cases, the options already given to these jobs are better than the relics. This is something that simply just doesn't need to be done. This is really such a trivial issue.

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No, I'm not saying that at all. That dagger was created with those jobs in consideration. It was not created with DNC in consideration. DNC was not even out when the weapon was created. I feel it would be unfair for people to automatically have the best weapon for a NEW job when it comes out when everyone had to work for the best of most of the rest of the gear after the job's release. It also punishes people who started working on a relic with the understanding of what jobs could use it, only to have that suddenly change. I imagine there are some people who got this or that relic that would have regretted getting it if they knew they were going to play a new job and it used a different relic.

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How is it Unfair? They already worked their ass off for the relic weapon already. They deserve to be able to use the relic on Dancer, if and when Dancer is finally able to equip it. Obtaining a relic weapon is not as easy as obtaining a homam gear, let alone empyrean weapon, and most of the other shit in game.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

BECAUSE YOU DO! Making a relic doesn't give you some kind of magic entitlement to have the best weapon for every job that could use a dagger.

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Is it really so unreasonable to want a job that excels in said weapon, to be able to use the relic of that weapon?

No one is saying "hey, lets add NIN and WAR to dagger!" They are saying add DNC, a job who excels in dagger, to be able to use it.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

How is it Unfair? They already worked their ass off for the relic weapon already. They deserve to be able to use the relic on Dancer, if and when Dancer is finally able to equip it. Obtaining a relic weapon is not as easy as obtaining a homam gear, let alone empyrean weapon, and most of the other shit in game.

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They worked their ass off for it knowing full well what jobs could use it. There was no reason to expect that some unknown job in the future would be able to use it or even that it would be good for the job if they did get to use it. Nobody made a Mandau specifically to benefit an unknown job that didn't exist when they made it.

I swear to god you disagree just to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

I swear to god you disagree just to disagree.

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I disagree.

[/intentional irony]

I don't disagree just to disagree. You can find me agreeing with people in many threads. I disagree with something when I honestly, truly don't think it should be done.

I did not take on a contrary viewpoint in this thread with the intent and purpose of having a fight. i took on that viewpoint because that was my actual viewpoint.

So really, in your opinion. Any gear we have now, should never be allowed to be used by any job that might be added, because that is just unfair?

Again, BLU should have never been added to crimson/homam/nashira then?

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BECAUSE YOU DO! Making a relic doesn't give you some kind of magic entitlement to have the best weapon for every job that could use a dagger. It was designed for specific jobs, and those specific jobs only. X job and Y job using a weapon does not automatically mean job Z should also be able to use it.

Maybe they should have made a single relic weapon, and made it all jobs. It magically morphs to whatever weapon class your have the highest skill in. That way everyone would only need to make one superweapon to have the best weapon for every job in the game.

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Dancer isn’t a job “that can use a dagger” it is a job that PRIMARILY uses a dagger, which is exactly the same case as Thief. Red Mage doesn’t even primarily use dagger, AND they also have Excalibur. Bard, even though it CAN primarily use dagger, the job barely melees as it is and you will likely never see a bard having Mandau and not having Thief NOR red mage leveled.


This isn’t about giving relic to jobs just because they can use it. This is about giving relic weapons to five newer jobs that primarily uses it. Especially in the case of Mandau, Corsair, Blue Mage, and puppet master. Scholar is still iffy because of the ‘fake relic’ situation. (Scholar can wield fake club relic but not staff, despite them using staff primarily).

And finally, Twashtar is equippable by Dancer and Thief, and they are the two jobs that primarily uses dagger. Wow. What an amazing coincident.

It makes sense to even argue that Dancer can equip mandau because they are primarily dagger users, and same with annihilator and corsair and for spharai for pup, and excalibur for Blue mage, and staff for scholar.

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I'm not speaking about right now. I'm speaking about when those jobs were released. Does a passage of X number of years suddenly justify a change?

Huh? No, absolutely not. If an item has the job on it, then it has the job on it. We're talking about items that do not have the job, not items that do.

I 100% agree it was shortsighted- obviously they don't plan as far in advance as we might expect. That doesn't mean this situation needs changing, however.

It boggles my mind why people are even arguing about this when in essentially all cases, the options already given to these jobs are better than the relics. This is something that simply just doesn't need to be done. This is really such a trivial issue.

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It was an oversight by SE and situation that SE refuses to correct. You cannot sit there and tell me that it’s fair that just because the five newer jobs were made after dynamis, they can’t equip relic.

For some jobs, sure, empyreans are better. For Mandau and Dancer, that’s actually a debatable option, and also, since SE is considering giving these relic weapons a significant boost for level 99 cap, that’s going to very likely change.

Also, it boggles my mind why you are even saying that it’s fair for five newer jobs to get completely new relic weapons (Not to be confused with empyrean and mythic) just because those five jobs didn’t exist at the time Dynamis came out.

It would be obvious as hell that if Those five jobs were around when Dancer came out, they would be able to have the said relic.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

They worked their ass off for it knowing full well what jobs could use it. There was no reason to expect that some unknown job in the future would be able to use it or even that it would be good for the job if they did get to use it. Nobody made a Mandau specifically to benefit an unknown job that didn't exist when they made it.

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So. What. That's like saying it's unfair for blue mage to use Homam because it didn't exist when Homam came out. That is like saying it's unfair for corsair to even wield Blood/Crimson Cuisses (aka W.Legs)

Edit: let me tell you that W.legs is NOt an easy piece of gear to obtain due to its rarity.

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Those five jobs shouldn't even be considered as new. Dancer and Scholar has been around for 4 years. Corsair, Blue Mage, and Puppetmaster has been around for five years.

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I feel it's worth noting that Blue Mage has been in FFXI since its release. I'd go as far as to say all Treasures jobs were; the original trailer quite clearly shows zones similar to Wajaom and Blue Magic. Bare minimum these jobs and zones were planned from the word go.

I think I'm actually going to listen to something Alhanelem has said and ignore him. His opinion is clearly in the wrong, forcing a person who leveled Thief and Dancer to work on what will effectively be a clone of Mandau - a weapon they may already have - is completely ridiculous. SE has basically already confirmed what they're doing. This is less of a debate or discussion and more of a tantrum with Alhanelem desperately trying to offer an alternative by spewing increasingly ridiculous claims.

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They worked their ass off for it knowing full well what jobs could use it. There was no reason to expect that some unknown job in the future would be able to use it or even that it would be good for the job if they did get to use it. Nobody made a Mandau specifically to benefit an unknown job that didn't exist when they made it.

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So if I leveled Paladin, obtained Excalibur, then leveled Blue Mage, it's unfair for Blue Mage to be added to Excalibur? Because I'd rather spend an additional 150m, right?

Or is it, I leveled Paladin, obtained Excalibur, then leveled Dancer, so it's unfair that I wasted effort on Excalibur when I now want Mandau?

I don't know which I want you to mean, because both are equally stupid. If I worked on Excalibur I can very easily work on a new Relic weapon - certainly by todays standards - but ignoring that it's not like I've got to toss Excalibur to obtain Mandau - it's not wasted effort.
Unless I originally worked on Claustrum before really enjoying Dancer I'm not going to look at my Relic weapon and go "What a waste". It means I'll have two unique Relic weapons, having what will effectively be copies of existing weapons just to satisfy some nonexistent sense of wrong doing towards Relic holders makes absolutely no sense. Either way someone with a Excalibur is going to have to work on a Relic dagger for Dancer. It's not unfair for this Paladin turned Dancer, it is unfair on the Mandau Thief turned Dancer, though.

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Also, it boggles my mind why you are even saying that it’s fair for five newer jobs to get completely new relic weapons (Not to be confused with empyrean and mythic) just because those five jobs didn’t exist at the time Dynamis came out.

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it's fair because those jobs would have to work for their relics instead of automatically having one for free because people made them before the job came out.

Id go so far as to say it's hard to imagine why anyone wouldn't want new ones over being tacked on to the old ones, which were not in any way made with the new jobs in mind. New weapons would be built with the new jobs in mind. It would also mean new weaponskills with new additional effects. Who wouldn't want that? It would make a lot more sense than slapping jobs onto weapons that weren't designed for those jobs.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

it's fair because those jobs would have to work for their relics instead of automatically having one for free because people made them before the job came out.

Id go so far as to say it's hard to imagine why anyone wouldn't want new ones over being tacked on to the old ones, which were not in any way made with the new jobs in mind. New weapons would be built with the new jobs in mind. It would also mean new weaponskills with new additional effects. Who wouldn't want that? It would make a lot more sense than slapping jobs onto weapons that weren't designed for those jobs.

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Because all that does, is take a crap on the 15 other jobs that have relic. Adding jobs to existing relics would give 4 of the 5 a benefit (mandau being a strong DD weapon for DNC, Gun being a good physical weapon for COR, H2H being a good defensive weapon for PUP, and sword being a good DD choice for BLU)

You keep whining that adding jobs to current weapons is unfair because if someone owns a relic and happens to have a job leveled that is being added to said relic would mean they are getting it "for free" No, they arent. They already spent the time and money to get the weapon.

I know I said I'd ignore you, but wow.

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it's fair because those jobs would have to work for their relics instead of automatically having one for free because people made them before the job came out.

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[SIZE="5"]THEY DON'T GET IT FOR FREE!

THEY STILL SPENT THE GIL TO OBTAIN THE WEAPON. THE PALADIN WHO LEVELED BLUE MAGE WHEN IT CAME OUT STILL PUT THE TIME IN TO OBTAIN HOMAM GEAR. THEY. DON'T. GET. IT. FOR. FREE.[/SIZE]

Seriously, do you think Blue Mages are just going to get Excaliburs in the Mog House if SE does this? The job doesn't matter; only in the sense that the new jobs match the weapon. The individual still put the work into the weapon.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

it's fair because those jobs would have to work for their relics instead of automatically having one for free because people made them before the job came out.

Id go so far as to say it's hard to imagine why anyone wouldn't want new ones over being tacked on to the old ones, which were not in any way made with the new jobs in mind. New weapons would be built with the new jobs in mind. It would also mean new weaponskills with new additional effects. Who wouldn't want that? It would make a lot more sense than slapping jobs onto weapons that weren't designed for those jobs.

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That's just it. They're not getting it for "free" they already spent a HELL of an effort getting these relic weapons (I will admit that relic weapons are easier to get relic now compared to before). So therefore, there's no "free pass" because it was already damn difficult to get the relic weapons, and there is no need to make it anymore difficult just because the said jobs are newer.

I already spent 3 months working on Mandau. I'm most certainly not getting it for free

400 byne bills != Free
1400 Ordelle Bronzepieces != Free
6200 Tukuku Whiteshells != Free
10000 (technically 7000) != Free

Not to mention getting the required items as well. (Fragment, attestation, necropsyches, crafting materials needed for it).

It took a LOT of time getting the relic weapons. Like I said, I'm almost done with Mandau (I am taking a break now because I can't get on FFXI for now), why do I have to do even more work just so I can equip it on Dancer?

And also, that's just it. Every jobs can use Empyrean. Every jobs can use Mythics, so, why CAN'T every jobs use relic weapons? That's the argument here, every job should be able to use relics as well, to maintain equality.

The Homam wasn't "built around BLU" and yet they can equip it.

The W. Abjuration set wasn't built around "Corsair" and yet they can equip it.

I could just go on and on and on.

Let's not even forget that all 5 of the newer said jobs can equip the fake relic weapons.

It's now an issue because relic weapons are now easier to obtain than before thanks to Dynamis changes. they don't need to rely on 18 to 36 people to get relic done when they could solo it to doing it in small group.

Oh look he's back to "It would be better for the jobs because the new weapons would be built around them". Not like I shot that argument down ten pages ago.

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It took a LOT of time getting the relic weapons. Like I said, I'm almost done with Mandau

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Just because you spent X million gil on something, it doesn't entitle you to have the weapon twisted to work on any job you want it to work on.

I spent many millions on the PUP attachments. not 100 mil, to be sure, but still a lot. I can't use any of these items on anything but PUP. Does that mean it wasn't worth it? Should these items be made to be useful to everyone else? No. You paid 150 mil to get the best thief/bard/redmage weapon, not the best dancer weapon.

A somewhat poor analogy, I admit, but just because you spent a lot of gil on something, that doesn't mean you can have everything you want.

Making relics easier to get makes this less of an issue, not more, in my eye. Everyone who feels they can get a relic is going for one with the understanding of what jobs it can be used on. I don't know anyone who's making a mandau because they think SE will change it so DNC can use it, at least. The sooner they would make new weapons, the sooner people who want a relic for DNC could just switch to that.

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Every jobs can use Empyrean. Every jobs can use Mythics, so, why CAN'T every jobs use relic weapons?

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Because there isn't any obligation to make <insert content here> useable by all jobs. Not every activity you do has an equivalent item for every job. I suppose it would be a good thing, but that doesn't mean they have to do it.

By the by, if you really want to you absolutely CAN get all your currency for free, since dynamis doesn't cost anything anymore. Gil only expidites the process, it's not an absolute necessity.

I swear, I was literally about to edit in that you'd say this.

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By the by, if you really want to you absolutely CAN get all your currency for free, since dynamis doesn't cost anything anymore. Gil only expidites the process, it's not an absolute necessity.

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Ever heard the saying time is money?

Heck, screw that line of thought, you are aware that what you've just described has always been the case? Vastly slower but you still could have obtained a Relic for free; it would have just taken ages. Get a Linkshell, have someone buy the Hourglass, you take all the currency, donate an appropriate sum of the currency to cover the cost of the Hourglass. You don't pay a dime and obtain the majority of the currency. Quite a few Dynamis Linkshells worked on the basis that one person obtains all the currency and the rest are just their for their Duelist's Chapeau; before you say anything.

Since Relics have always been free, I guess you no longer have any complaint with other jobs obtaining them for free.

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Just because you spent X million gil on something, it doesn't entitle you to have the weapon twisted to work on any job you want it to work on.

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That isn't even what this argument is all about.

This isn't about "any job you want it on" this is about the fact that Dancer has no access to relic weapon, and giving them access to Mandau fixes it. If SE wants to make magian trial to do that. Fine. I'll understand that. I'll even understand if it requires 400 byne bills.

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I spent many millions on the PUP attachments. not 100 mil, to be sure, but still a lot. I can't use any of these items on anything but PUP. Does that mean it wasn't worth it? Should these items be made to be useful to everyone else? No. You paid 150 mil to get the best thief/bard/redmage weapon, not the best dancer weapon.

A somewhat poor analogy, I admit, but just because you spent a lot of gil on something, that doesn't mean you can have everything you want.

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Completely flawed anology, I will agree. Those are exclusively puppetmaster attachments. The different is. Thief and Dancer are primary dagger weapons, therefore I believe Dancer should have access to it because of that reasoning alone. This is the same with all the other jobs.

So, once again, this isn't about granting access to relic weapons just because they could use the weapon. (IE, Ninja, etc), this is about granting the five newer jobs access to relic weapons because they have no access yet and I feel that it's time that they do. This is about fixing an oversight that SE should've fixed long time ago.

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Making relics easier to get makes this less of an issue, not more, in my eye. Everyone who feels they can get a relic is going for one with the understanding of what jobs it can be used on. I don't know anyone who's making a mandau because they think SE will change it so DNC can use it, at least. The sooner they would make new weapons, the sooner people who want a relic for DNC could just switch to that.

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See, that's a completely flawed logic there, and is a silly idea. There are already one relic weapon for each type and no more. Why is it that SE have to make new relic weapons, made ONLY for one of each of the five newer jobs. How does it even make sense, especially lore-wise. It doesn't even fit, story-wise.

So far, every argument you have made is a poor argument, and is completely silly. Not one of your argument is sound.

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By the by, if you really want to you absolutely CAN get all your currency for free, since dynamis doesn't cost anything anymore. Gil only expidites the process, it's not an absolute necessity.

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Never said it doesn't cost gil but it is certainly not "free". Ever heard of the phrase "TANSTAAFL" Aka There aint no such thing as a free lunch. Just because you get free lunch doesn't mean it was free. Efforts were made to get you the free lunch. Efforts were made to make the lunch. SOMEBODY paid for the lunch, and it isn't you that got the free lunch.

This is the same case with relics. No one gets the "relic weapon" for free (Except for Nomad Moogle Bonanza). A LOT of effort put into getting it, whether you paid for it yourself, or whether you farmed up for currencies, or whether the LS farmed up the currencies for you. It was not free.

You don't get the relic for "free" even if you spent not a single gil on it. I personally have farmed up every currencies, with the help of my friends to get the relic weapons, and have spent several million gils to somewhat expedite the process.

I'm getting Mandau for my THF, and I would love to be able to use it on my Dancer as well. Thief and Dancer are two of my three favorite jobs in the game.

I have thought over this for a while and I can't even come up with a reason why Dancer can't use Mandau, as well as other 4 said jobs and the said respective weapons.

Granted, for lore, it's questionable for blue mage, Corsair, and puppetmaster. However, Dancers and Scholars have clearly been involved with the Crystal war, and lore wise, could have been cleary sucked into Dynamis as part of the lost Hydra corps.

Dancers use daggers as a primary weapon, as much as thief does, so Mandau benefits Dancer perfectly. Dancers even have access to Clement Skean, which is the only other weapon that have Mercy Stroke, further justifying that Dancers should be able to use Mandau.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Saber Dance!

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Derp~ I was thinking Saber Dance was the one that didn't allow you to use sambas and wasn't used that often. There are a lot of situations where you wouldn't be able to use it and it doesn't stack with the trait so it doesn't make a huge difference in the numbers.

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How does it even make sense, especially lore-wise. It doesn't even fit, story-wise.

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there are plenty of ways you can make up stuff like that. It's a freakin' fantasy world, SE can do whatever it wants.

You'd expect the key representatives of DNC and SCH at least to be using a relic weapon in the crystal war, since there are NPCs wielding the other relics. Adelheid is seen wearing some club in battle. I don't really recognize the model, but it looks unique. The lead NPC in the dancer squad in Pashhow [S] doesn't use a mandau, if I'm recalling correctly. They really wouldn't need to twist the lore much to add in relic weapons for those two. The other three would take more work but they can essentially make up whatever they please.

So whatever you do, don't play the lore card. SE can do whatever they want with the lore. There is lots of lore in the game that doesn't make much sense, especially in WOTG.

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Derp~ I was thinking Saber Dance was the one that didn't allow you to use sambas and wasn't used that often.

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Fan Dance

Mathematically it makes sense to let the new jobs join the old relic weapons because of what they are, a categorical partition of the weapon classes ("the best of each weapon"), which would be directly violated by adding new weapons. That's the only rational argument in here, everything else, no matter if well founded or not, is an opinion and not worth arguing about.