A Simple Request from Thieves: An upgrade to Thief's Knife.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

No, because then you can still do that trial and then get a new TK to equip in off-hand, completely NOT fixing the problem.

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they could just give it the same id as thief knife so that you couldn't hold em both. call it a raiders throwing knife or something.

The easiest suggestion, as mentioned (and apologies if I dismissed it earlier) is just to release a dagger with Latent Effect: Treasure Hunter +1m Laten activatd when Thief's Knife is not equipped. With the TH proc system, it would bemuch easier to test the latent than it would ahve been previously.

I just don't see the point in changing it at all if it still requires me to swap out my dagger.

I believe the argument is people would generally be ok for a small hit to their DoT in exchange for TH+1 but aren't happy with the big hit to their DoT they trade for TH+1 that they currently deal with.

I know, I just believe that if somethings worth doing, it's worth doing right. Why half ass fix it?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I know, I just believe that if somethings worth doing, it's worth doing right. Why half ass fix it?

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Asking them to create an item that shares an ID with another item that is a combination of two separate items is incredibly far fetched, and i would even debate impossible for them to do, as no other item in this game appears to follow anything remotely similar to that type of coding.

Beyond that, with SE, Its naive to expect a solution that perfectly solves every aspect of the problem that doesn't involve nerfing in some way. What ideas we toss out are suggestions for a middle ground, Not a Fking NERFBAT that the THF's knife currently is, But not the RELEASETHEKRAKEN Knife either.

We're pretty much settling, I don't expect an expert solution to this, In fact i pretty much expect "We aren't doing anything because you can Upgrade TH now, So we dont wanna waste time on it"... which, Honestly, Isn't a bad solution albeit a bit lazy.

I Can't demand them to give us a Second farking Mandau-THF-Hybrid Knife to be the perfect off-hand weapon of god... So i ask for a middle ground, Something OF LEVEL 95+ With Similar DMG/Delay of daggers of that level so the impact on our DPS is not as severe as it is now, Like Noodles explained.

I would gladly except a Kraken Knife if they'd give it to us. Anyway, As for "whyhalfassit", Its because Even if the Dagger only had 10 more base damage, Its still a huge improvement over what we currently have, and I'm the kind of man who'd take Something over nothing.

Yah IDK, To sum it up, Your solution just seems a bit out there, Its so bad I honestly think you're messing with us just to poke fun >_>

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I just don't see the point in changing it at all if it still requires me to swap out my dagger.

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In events like Dynamis or Limbus with multiple enemies in large numbers, Switching out your daggers every fight will make you lose significant amounts of TP, really hurting our overall DPS.

This is where we're asking for a solution.

I mean, Theoretically they could give us a Piece of Armor like... a ring... "Thief's band" with Latent:TH+1 similar to my Raider's Knife Suggestion... This way it would just be an Armor that can be freely swapped out whenever, and remove the use for Thief's Knife.

I think you must be having a bad day. Replacing an item with another is extremely easy to code. they do it with tons of Magian items. You trade in X item and X amount of another item and receive a different item in return. They then add a line that says something like: if item(Raiders Whateveritscalled) = true then()....;

There are probably a million other spots in the code where they can copy it from, and just change the item name.

I don't want a perfect dagger. I want an item that goes in a different slot and negates the need for that dagger, or makes it so you don't need to equip an item at all, like a Key Item, or something that is in effect anytime its in inventory. If you ask them for a better Thief Knife, you will in all likelihood end up with 2 Thief Knifes that you have to equip. I try to not suggest things that allow for misinterpretation by the reps. I'm terribly afraid that this is gonna get translated into "we want 2 thief knifes".

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I mean, Theoretically they could give us a Piece of Armor like... a ring... "Thief's band" with Latent:TH+1 similar to my Raider's Knife Suggestion... This way it would just be an Armor that can be freely swapped out whenever, and remove the use for Thief's Knife.

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Something like this really sounds like the best solution. It should be easy to code, it gives people another item to work towards, and it fixes the problem completely and forever since that would be a swappable slot.

Of course, given that it's SE, I'm sure it's not actually easy to code.

"Yeah, adding the LootMonger's Lutefisk-flavored Long-johns just made Absolute Virtue spawn in Port Windurst."

"Oh, what's he doing?"

"He is...well...he is buying a level 1 sword and leveling Red Mage. And somehow, he just made a post on the forums advocating melee enhancements for Red Mage."

"Does he have better grammar than that 'Rosina' person who makes the translation team scream at each other and cry under their table?"

"Somewhat. It's pretty much exactly the way he talks in-game, so it's just a smidgen north of incomprehensible."

"Add the LootMonger's Lutefisk-flavored Long-johns now, and we'll work the bugs out before the December update. Let's take off early today."

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

....the LootMonger's Lutefisk-flavored Long-johns

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No matter what it is, this should be the item name.

I liked this latent idea a lot too. Giving that to a different equipment piece fixes the dps issue because a th dagger will probably be sucky in comparison to what's the best out there on dps terms. Also, a ring doesn't affect our dps like a weapon choice does, and there is also the option of giving it a secondary dps stat. I mean, even if we gave such stat to the weapon, its damage and delay will be what make or break it.

I'm going to add the Armor idea to the OP, as i think we can agree that its the best solution short of a nerf.

Make the armor item lv 95, RA EX and have it obtained through a quest that involves consumption of a thief's knife in order to maintain the value of the knife on the market.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Not that i dont agree.

That would not solve the problem of THF's knife being forced in our hands, It would just be a matter of Mainhand the new one and offhand THFs Knife.

My idea was to upgrade the knife to be acceptable since its pretty much forced in our hand for most events.

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The thing is, you recommended magian trials as a possible way to upgrade the TK. If they did do it that way, it would most likely end up w/ a +1 or a +2 next to the name. Therefore allowing you to offhand a 2nd TK.

And most LS would probably be forcing alot of THF's to do that. If you wanted to keep Treasure Hunter" only in the offhand, it would more than likely have to be done with synergy, or not at all.

I for one hate using TK, but understanding it's value, I bite the bullet as needed.

You make it sound like its impossible to code a restriction disallowing the equipping of TK and "TK+1"....see: grips, Novennial gear, cloaks, expendible thrown ammo/ranged (cant equip raider bommerang and thew bomblet)

I would rather they made it a piece of gear than a weapon. I like the idea that I saw of a ring with "Latent effect: Treasure Hunter +1" and that latent is not equiping TK.

It doesn't matter how good a new dagger is, it will still end up being a situation where it is inferior to other daggers and we'll be swapping it anyway.

If they do decided to address this in some way, I would much rather we weren't tied to the weapon slot for TH enhancing as a part of the solution...but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Classikal

The thing is, you recommended magian trials as a possible way to upgrade the TK. If they did do it that way, it would most likely end up w/ a +1 or a +2 next to the name. Therefore allowing you to offhand a 2nd TK.

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Haven't suggested Magian trials in like, 12 pages... I mean really. So far the best solution we have is a Piece of Armor with a latent effect that is TH+1 when THF's knife is not equipped. Solves the problem from every possible angle.

I keep the other stuff in the OP simply as a means of choice, if SE is like "no no, not that" i want the other options to be there so maybe they'll chose one..

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And most LS would probably be forcing alot of THF's to do that. If you wanted to keep Treasure Hunter" only in the offhand, it would more than likely have to be done with synergy, or not at all.

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Synergy was also suggested. By me. Something we've moved away from a bit, as its not a perfect solution.

So far, as you neglected to mention, the best option is what we've stated above. a piece of Armor (Thus,, can be switched out at will with no TP lost) that has a latent that only works when THF knife is not equipped.

Literally solves every possible problem. Which is why its the only one most of us actually agree on.

I'm no THF, but as far as I can recall, THF's new TH "proc" system procs whatever TH you have equipped when you first give enmity to a monster. From there you have a chance to proc TH a tier higher, up to Lv10. I may be mistaken, but can't you unequip all TH gear after gaining a value of enmity and it still be that tier of TH?

I KNOW this works once you've proc'd TH into that first tier higher than you have equipped, but - assuming you have traits/gear up to TH6 - can't you just hit it and it have TH6? If I'm right, then having a piece of gear with a latent of TH while not wearing Thief's knife would be a little silly. Just hit the monster once then change weapons. TP shouldn't really be an issue with THF.

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Originally Posted by Retsujo

I'm no THF, but as far as I can recall, THF's new TH "proc" system procs whatever TH you have equipped when you first give enmity to a monster. From there you have a chance to proc TH a tier higher, up to Lv10. I may be mistaken, but can't you unequip all TH gear after gaining a value of enmity and it still be that tier of TH?

I KNOW this works once you've proc'd TH into that first tier higher than you have equipped, but - assuming you have traits/gear up to TH6 - can't you just hit it and it have TH6? If I'm right, then having a piece of gear with a latent of TH while not wearing Thief's knife would be a little silly. Just hit the monster once then change weapons. TP shouldn't really be an issue with THF.

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10/10

I lol'ed.

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Originally Posted by Retsujo

TP shouldn't really be an issue with THF.

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That is the entire issue and it's the sole reason why this thread was created. This stuff is "TH mechanics 101", everyone here knows that, but that has nothing to do with the problem at hand, which is losing TP on swapping weapons. Many people in here feel that infringes on their already very scarce DD rights.

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I'm no THF, but as far as I can recall, THF's new TH "proc" system procs whatever TH you have equipped when you first give enmity to a monster. From there you have a chance to proc TH a tier higher, up to Lv10. I may be mistaken, but can't you unequip all TH gear after gaining a value of enmity and it still be that tier of TH?

I KNOW this works once you've proc'd TH into that first tier higher than you have equipped, but - assuming you have traits/gear up to TH6 - can't you just hit it and it have TH6? If I'm right, then having a piece of gear with a latent of TH while not wearing Thief's knife would be a little silly. Just hit the monster once then change weapons. TP shouldn't really be an issue with THF.

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u think its ok to lose your tp?

if any other job here had to lose there tp there would be outrage

in before we are thfs and thats our job.
/old fart rant mode on
we was invited to pts back in the day cuz we closed distortion,did big damage and controlled hate and had a decent time keeping up with dot and SC with other DD

I remember when war wasnt wanted in XP pts cuz its not an "advanced job.. didnt have good SC options" but i knew better and met sum great wars that showed me rampage and the other things they got.
/old fart rant mode off

and yeah get rid of thf's knife SE. All its ever done is make drama, create bots to camp it and nerf our dot

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Originally Posted by Retsujo

.......... something stupid

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I know that nobody has time to read alllllllllll the posts, but please try to at least read the first one.

As I said, I'm no THF and only stated an idea/opinion from a standpoint outside of career Thieves. I obviously don't 'get it' which is why I asked ^^;

I also wasn't thinking about multiple mobs in succession, just the big, long fights against one mob at a time. Now I understand :D

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

If you don't know why losing 10~90 TP just to switch weapons, and you don't know how significantly that impacts your damage, let alone how significantly using a THF's knife impacts your damage, I cannot help you or explain it well enough, thusly i will no try.

However do understand, Every THF hear realizes, on longer fights, You can easily hit a Mob and put on full TH, then take the Knife off, the problem is Farming in places like Dynamis or Limbus where every single mob you'll want your fullest TH on, and switching on/off the knife before every kill/fight is where a problem comes in.

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1. I dont understand why one needs to switch out the knife in the first place since most of a ws damage is done with the weapon in main hand which i imagine isnt the Thief Knife in the first place. The offhand weapon only attacks after the ws is executed anyway.

2. if you near 100% tp why the hell are you such an idiot and dont just use Dancing edge at 100% tp then perform the switch if u need to greatly reducing the tp loss in the first place. Especially isnce tp only affects accuracy and not damage.

3. if damage is really such an issue if your main weapon dmg is like 45 and thief knife is like 28 than u are still doing like an average of 36dmg/weapon. sure it isnt as good as say two daggers with the same damage but it is barely noticeable unless you fighting nm that are paladin with high defenses like nm crabs or something so wtf is everybody whining about? plus you could always use meat mithkabobs to increase damage further as well not to mention the other attack and strenght boosts as well

4. You really dont need to equip the thief knife at all with the mod they made to theif main job where ur TH effectiveness increases with more consecutive hits landed so investing in more accuracy gear could also be an alternative solution though they are rather few but dont sushi foods or something boost that as well? Also the effectiveness remains as long as u stay in the zone as well doesnt it if i remember correctly like composoure and phalanx of RDM

In any case i'm just saying, lol

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. I dont understand why one needs to switch out the knife in the first place since most of a ws damage is done with the weapon in main hand which i imagine isnt the Thief Knife in the first place. The offhand weapon only attacks after the ws is executed anyway.

2. if you near 100% tp why the hell are you such an idiot and dont just use Dancing edge at 100% tp then perform the switch if u need to greatly reducing the tp loss in the first place. Especially isnce tp only affects accuracy and not damage.

3. if damage is really such an issue if your main weapon dmg is like 45 and thief knife is like 28 than u are still doing like an average of 36dmg/weapon. sure it isnt as good as say two daggers with the same damage but it is barely noticeable unless you fighting nm that are paladin with high defenses like nm crabs or something so wtf is everybody whining about? plus you could always use meat mithkabobs to increase damage further as well not to mention the other attack and strenght boosts as well

4. You really dont need to equip the thief knife at all with the mod they made to theif main job where ur TH effectiveness increases with more consecutive hits landed so investing in more accuracy gear could also be an alternative solution though they are rather few but dont sushi foods or something boost that as well? Also the effectiveness remains as long as u stay in the zone as well doesnt it if i remember correctly like composoure and phalanx of RDM

In any case i'm just saying, lol

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Going from 45-36 damage is actually pretty bad. Also, that's not how treasure hunter works. Everyone here is very clear on what the stats of the dagger are, and how to swap out a weapon. The point of the thread is that doing so is detrimental to job performance (however insignificant you may think it is, it is still a detriment). If any other job had this sort of situation suddenly imposed on them, there would be torches and pitchforks outside the home of the developer that did it. Its a minor improvement to a job that could use some love. It wouldn't hurt any other job. It wouldn't be hard to design. It would however show that the devs do actually care a little.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. I dont understand why one needs to switch out the knife in the first place since most of a ws damage is done with the weapon in main hand which i imagine isnt the Thief Knife in the first place. The offhand weapon only attacks after the ws is executed anyway.

2. if you near 100% tp why the hell are you such an idiot and dont just use Dancing edge at 100% tp then perform the switch if u need to greatly reducing the tp loss in the first place. Especially isnce tp only affects accuracy and not damage.

3. if damage is really such an issue if your main weapon dmg is like 45 and thief knife is like 28 than u are still doing like an average of 36dmg/weapon. sure it isnt as good as say two daggers with the same damage but it is barely noticeable unless you fighting nm that are paladin with high defenses like nm crabs or something so wtf is everybody whining about? plus you could always use meat mithkabobs to increase damage further as well not to mention the other attack and strenght boosts as well

4. You really dont need to equip the thief knife at all with the mod they made to theif main job where ur TH effectiveness increases with more consecutive hits landed so investing in more accuracy gear could also be an alternative solution though they are rather few but dont sushi foods or something boost that as well? Also the effectiveness remains as long as u stay in the zone as well doesnt it if i remember correctly like composoure and phalanx of RDM

In any case i'm just saying, lol

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This is the kind of post that I don't even know if I should reply to.

1. Depending on the offhand you are using you could be losing out on any number of things. TP bonus, STR/DEX +10 acc att crit damage triple attack et. ect. Very important things.

2. The problem comes in when you are fighting things that are often dead before you hit 100% and a stacked WS would 1 shot.

3. This is nonsense. The DPS hit you take from off-handing a TK is massive.

4. This is so insanely incorrect. I don't know why you are posting here when you don't have the slightest clue how TH works.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

This is the kind of post that I don't even know if I should reply to.

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Posts like his are a great injustice. Either you reply, which is wasting your breath on someone who doesn't deserve any, or you don't, and a post like that stays in front, which is an insult to everyone else's intelligence. I only wish whoever even reads part of his post realizes, that this forum sadly doesn't require half a brain to sign up on.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. I dont understand why one needs to switch out the knife in the first place since most of a ws damage is done with the weapon in main hand which i imagine isnt the Thief Knife in the first place. The offhand weapon only attacks after the ws is executed anyway.

2. if you near 100% tp why the hell are you such an idiot and dont just use Dancing edge at 100% tp then perform the switch if u need to greatly reducing the tp loss in the first place. Especially isnce tp only affects accuracy and not damage.

3. if damage is really such an issue if your main weapon dmg is like 45 and thief knife is like 28 than u are still doing like an average of 36dmg/weapon. sure it isnt as good as say two daggers with the same damage but it is barely noticeable unless you fighting nm that are paladin with high defenses like nm crabs or something so wtf is everybody whining about? plus you could always use meat mithkabobs to increase damage further as well not to mention the other attack and strenght boosts as well

4. You really dont need to equip the thief knife at all with the mod they made to theif main job where ur TH effectiveness increases with more consecutive hits landed so investing in more accuracy gear could also be an alternative solution though they are rather few but dont sushi foods or something boost that as well? Also the effectiveness remains as long as u stay in the zone as well doesnt it if i remember correctly like composoure and phalanx of RDM

In any case i'm just saying, lol

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Okay, let's see here...

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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffon

http://files6.fliiby.com/images/_thu...xf2whqlgj1.jpgSay whaaaaaaaaaaa

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

This is the kind of post that I don't even know if I should reply to.

1. Depending on the offhand you are using you could be losing out on any number of things. TP bonus, STR/DEX +10 acc att crit damage triple attack et. ect. Very important things.

2. The problem comes in when you are fighting things that are often dead before you hit 100% and a stacked WS would 1 shot.

3. This is nonsense. The DPS hit you take from off-handing a TK is massive.

4. This is so insanely incorrect. I don't know why you are posting here when you don't have the slightest clue how TH works.

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1. From the original post I was under the impression that the TK wasn't being equipped for the entire duration of the fights. I also was making an assumption that a person would go for direct accuracy and attack boost over STR/DEX since only half of the stat actually goes to attack/accuracy anyway therefore more expensive to me but I suppose it still can be effective when str is compared to vit or dex to agi. I also made the assumption that triple attack % would be merited as well as critical hit and a person would have access to Assassin Charge so those wouldnt be as much of an issue. My fault for making those assumptions. In additon I dont really use anything that boost stats beside the pepto bismal armor from abyssea so I'm USED to doing WITHOUT those things on the regular.

2. Ok good point but I usually just dont ws and save the tp until reaching a decent mob to use it on then WS, then switch but that may not work for everybody I suppose.

3. Again making another erroneous assumption of being in the party and other ppl are still dealing damage along side with you. In the grand party damage/attack round 9 dmg/ attack round isnt that bad and even solo with thief high evasion and probably all the other evasion gear i'm sure many other ppl have as well. Again my fault for assuming but I guess i'm one of those ppl that have grown comfortable with dealing less damage and enduring longer battles as a result but not everybody has the stomach or patience for that so my mistake.

4. I was confusing how TH actually works versus how I would like it to work and have been lobbying for this change to TH alot lately. In any case I wasnt talking about the TH trait itself but the new effectiveness increases that raises TH 3 to 4 to 5 and so on if you are main thief without any equipment like the TK. Again sorry if I wasnt clear/specific enough.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Posts like his are a great injustice. Either you reply, which is wasting your breath on someone who doesn't deserve any, or you don't, and a post like that stays in front, which is an insult to everyone else's intelligence. I only wish whoever even reads part of his post realizes, that this forum sadly doesn't require half a brain to sign up on.

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........NVM [Ignore the ignorant]

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. From the original post I was under the impression that the TK wasn't being equipped for the entire duration of the fights. I also was making an assumption that a person would go for direct accuracy and attack boost over STR/DEX since only half of the stat actually goes to attack/accuracy anyway therefore more expensive to me but I suppose it still can be effective when str is compared to vit or dex to agi. I also made the assumption that triple attack % would be merited as well as critical hit and a person would have access to Assassin Charge so those wouldnt be as much of an issue. My fault for making those assumptions. In additon I dont really use anything that boost stats beside the pepto bismal armor from abyssea so I'm USED to doing WITHOUT those things on the regular.

2. Ok good point but I usually just dont ws and save the tp until reaching a decent mob to use it on then WS, then switch but that may not work for everybody I suppose.

3. Again making another erroneous assumption of being in the party and other ppl are still dealing damage along side with you. In the grand party damage/attack round 9 dmg/ attack round isnt that bad and even solo with thief high evasion and probably all the other evasion gear i'm sure many other ppl have as well. Again my fault for assuming but I guess i'm one of those ppl that have grown comfortable with dealing less damage and enduring longer battles as a result but not everybody has the stomach or patience for that so my mistake.

4. I was confusing how TH actually works versus how I would like it to work and have been lobbying for this change to TH alot lately. In any case I wasnt talking about the TH trait itself but the new effectiveness increases that raises TH 3 to 4 to 5 and so on if you are main thief without any equipment like the TK. Again sorry if I wasnt clear/specific enough.

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1. There is no assumption that will change the fact that equipping thief knife for however short of a duration == less damage.

2. Your hurting your damage even more by doing this.

3. Other people being in your party doesn't make it OK to suck.

4. Less TH is less TH no matter how you slice it. Starting out at a lower number will always mean you end at a lower number.

Please delete or change your posts. We really don't want anyone reading them and thinking that is how things work.

You basically said that you assumed everyone doesn't mind being gimp. You assumed wrong. And..

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

........NVM [Ignore the ignorant]

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.. that's not ignoring.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. From the original post I was under the impression that the TK wasn't being equipped for the entire duration of the fights. I also was making an assumption that a person would go for direct accuracy and attack boost over STR/DEX since only half of the stat actually goes to attack/accuracy anyway therefore more expensive to me but I suppose it still can be effective when str is compared to vit or dex to agi. I also made the assumption that triple attack % would be merited as well as critical hit and a person would have access to Assassin Charge so those wouldnt be as much of an issue. My fault for making those assumptions. In additon I dont really use anything that boost stats beside the pepto bismal armor from abyssea so I'm USED to doing WITHOUT those things on the regular.

2. Ok good point but I usually just dont ws and save the tp until reaching a decent mob to use it on then WS, then switch but that may not work for everybody I suppose.

3. Again making another erroneous assumption of being in the party and other ppl are still dealing damage along side with you. In the grand party damage/attack round 9 dmg/ attack round isnt that bad and even solo with thief high evasion and probably all the other evasion gear i'm sure many other ppl have as well. Again my fault for assuming but I guess i'm one of those ppl that have grown comfortable with dealing less damage and enduring longer battles as a result but not everybody has the stomach or patience for that so my mistake.

4. I was confusing how TH actually works versus how I would like it to work and have been lobbying for this change to TH alot lately. In any case I wasnt talking about the TH trait itself but the new effectiveness increases that raises TH 3 to 4 to 5 and so on if you are main thief without any equipment like the TK. Again sorry if I wasnt clear/specific enough.

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You know very very little about THF and this game. When you see a topic like this that you don't really understand, instead of taking the time replying to it using your gut you should learn about the conversation we are having before you decide to take part in it and end up being wrong on a level that is rarely seen.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

1. There is no assumption that will change the fact that equipping thief knife for however short of a duration == less damage.

2. Your hurting your damage even more by doing this.

3. Other people being in your party doesn't make it OK to suck.

4. Less TH is less TH no matter how you slice it. Starting out at a lower number will always mean you end at a lower number.

Please delete or change your posts. We really don't want anyone reading them and thinking that is how things work.

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1. No arguments here totally agree
2. I disagree if the mob is so weak that using a ws can one shot it with the ws and also preventing th from procing on the mob then to me that is a viable solution since it will probably be dead in like 30 seconds anyway for the nexxt mob. You are effectively saving that damage for the next mob and still giving a chance to maximize drops.
3. Assuming one is dual wielding going from 80 damage between 2 daggers to 71 damage from 2 daggers is hardly sucking and is still considerably contributing to killing the mob and building tp all the same unless either of the weapons have some sort of latent or additional effect like "occassionally attacks 2 -4 times" and that isnt even counting the natural triple attack with or without merits.
4. That is why I wish they expand the effectiveness effect of main thief to the entire zone and not just the mob like how composure where it only wears off after 2 hrs or when you zone so people can just do away with the knife altogether

As for the rest of that I will neither delete or change any of my posts as nothing I said is politically incorrect, racist, sexist, agist, derrogatory, hate speech or anything else protected by law and well simply put you dont run me. Take it up with the mod or something because that is the only way it is getting changed or deleted. -_-

How you play down "You only lose a bit of DMG" is beyond me. Also how are you going from 80DMG to 71DMG? Swapping out a STR Kila+3 to a Thief's Knife loses 17DMG and 10STR. The 10STR will equate to another 2-3DMG meaning you're losing 19-20DMG, and the 17DMG on the weapon means you drop 2 weapon ranks on that offhand wepon. That is absolutely huge. Playing it down so much like you are suggests you have done no research into how the game works.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

How you play down "You only lose a bit of DMG" is beyond me. Also how are you going from 80DMG to 71DMG? Swapping out a STR Kila+3 to a Thief's Knife loses 17DMG and 10STR. The 10STR will equate to another 2-3DMG meaning you're losing 19-20DMG, and the 17DMG on the weapon means you drop 2 weapon ranks on that offhand wepon. That is absolutely huge. Playing it down so much like you are suggests you have done no research into how the game works.

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Not only that, this is still Lv95. At 99, and further down the road, more better daggers will be available. However, the fact that Thief's Knife has TH on it won't change. Which means, to get the most out of TH, we'll be forced to gimp our damage more and more with every further update. He's completely understating everything without any evidence at all.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. No arguments here totally agree
2. I disagree if the mob is so weak that using a ws can one shot it with the ws and also preventing th from procing on the mob then to me that is a viable solution since it will probably be dead in like 30 seconds anyway for the nexxt mob. You are effectively saving that damage for the next mob and still giving a chance to maximize drops.

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If it dies in 30 seconds, you are not procing any treasure hunter increases after the initial hit. If it take longer to kill, you should have wsed.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

3. Assuming one is dual wielding going from 80 damage between 2 daggers to 71 damage from 2 daggers is hardly sucking and is still considerably contributing to killing the mob and building tp all the same unless either of the weapons have some sort of latent or additional effect like "occassionally attacks 2 -4 times" and that isnt even counting the natural triple attack with or without merits.

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See noodles post below

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

4. That is why I wish they expand the effectiveness effect of main thief to the entire zone and not just the mob like how composure where it only wears off after 2 hrs or when you zone so people can just do away with the knife altogether

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At least we agree that the knife sucks.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

As for the rest of that I will neither delete or change any of my posts as nothing I said is politically incorrect, racist, sexist, agist, derrogatory, hate speech or anything else protected by law and well simply put you dont run me. Take it up with the mod or something because that is the only way it is getting changed or deleted. -_-

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I didn't tell you to change / delete it because it was derogatory, inflammatory (although judging by the responses it is to thiefs), racist, or sexist. You should delete / change it so that other people don't get the impression that it is true, and end up looking silly on another thread by repeating it. However, if you just like evoking angry responses and spreading fodder, by all means continue. Just know that everyone wants you to stop.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

You basically said that you assumed everyone doesn't mind being gimp. You assumed wrong. And..



.. that's not ignoring.

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I guess I need to rephrase that for clarity sake. What I am saying is that not every has access to or even want or feel a need for the best armor to get things done. Sure it probably would be best and wise but that doesnt exactly mean it is necessary to have. I guess I am just a glutton for pain though and don't expect others to endure what I do but I like experience near death victories myself and feel like I earned the kill instead of flat out owning mobs.

And that was apparently a failed attempt at humor BUT considering the lengthy post I had typed up before I deleted it and just posted that it kind of is ignoring him for me considering that fact.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

How you play down "You only lose a bit of DMG" is beyond me. Also how are you going from 80DMG to 71DMG? Swapping out a STR Kila+3 to a Thief's Knife loses 17DMG and 10STR. The 10STR will equate to another 2-3DMG meaning you're losing 19-20DMG, and the 17DMG on the weapon means you drop 2 weapon ranks on that offhand wepon. That is absolutely huge. Playing it down so much like you are suggests you have done no research into how the game works.

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Sorry I didnt respond sooner as I didnt see this post way down here. If one is referring to the individual damage you are dealing yes 17 dmg is alot of damage but come on most of the time you will only use the dagger for a few hits anyway before unequipping it for it to not really be that big of an issue. The only thing I will say and admit is I am unsure of what happens when u unequip the dagger after procing to a higher TH level. For instance if with the dagger equip I am at TH4 and I proc to TH level 5 then unequip the dagger will the TH level reset? I never noticed this because usually I never unequip the dagger in the first place if the goal is to increase the chance of a specific drop. Again I am probably more willing to accept the lower damage trade of to increase my chances of the drop so I dont have to be bothered with that mob again if I dont have to than other people so I can understand people wanting to unequip the dagger back for more damage. An alternative would be to increase your attack with meat mithkabobs but not everybody has cooking that high i imagine or want to either.

In any case I was including the fact of have Triple attack rate merited up, as well as miscellanenous gear and having assassin's charge for on demand triple attack as well. For the most part auto attack is nothing but a "place holder" for WS where the real damage is dealt anyway which is what everybody want to do anyway. Because I image most ppl just want to Dancing Edge, Evisceration, and Rudra's Storm their way to victory, the auto attack damage dealt is less of an issue anyway since the tp gain rate kind of averages its way out with the exception of "occasionally attack" stuff and latent effect stuff where the damage increases. The overall auto attack damage dealt is still relatively high when you factor in all those things especially when you are dual wielding and triple attack has the chance of procing for each equiped weapon.

Look I get it everybody wants the most base damage possible but correct me if I am wrong even to this day people still dont exactly consider thief as a "True Damage Dealer" anyway and daggers still have the lowest base damage of all weapons at the same level anyway so wtf is anybody crying about anyway? In addition if we talking about abyssea mobs..... really? With all the atmas and bs that crank up overall damage ... seriously? In any case it isnt about how much you indivdually deal to the mob anyway and people need to put their egos to the side and remember it is about the team working to defeat a common threat. Oh and I didnt even factor in Sneak and Trick attack either since I mainly solo and rarely use it. OOh and omg almost forgot in abyssea how the faster you kill mobs the higher level the mob respawns though there is probably a limit to it that I am not aware of and knowing SE style.

I guess I am just a little more willing to make trade offs and deal with things as they are than maybe other people are and that is why it "seems" as if I down play stuff to you guys as I have a higher tolerance for certain things than other people. For instance if I know the mobs strongest move only deals 600 damage even if it critcal hit I am more willing than most people to leave my around liek 750/1400 hp than others as I know I have the tp to heal back up fast. In fact I get kind of pissed of people use thier mp to heal me before that point, LOL. Guess I probably would be better off as a Paladin then huh, lol.

Oh in additon to all that but you can agree to disagree if you like but if keeping and maintaining damage was important wouldnt you be better off with a "lowers defense+15" dagger anyway than a str and attack stat boost since essentially reducing the mob defense essentially increases not just your damage but the party damage as a whole anyway? I mean everybody is so busy with the "who has the biggest $%%^ contest" over damage that is more important improve the PARTY overall damage than the whole "look at me look at me and the damage I do" bs that they forget about the party. Geez let go of your egos and focus on the party and just take the hit already. The party wont die because the output of the party goes from 550damage per attack round to 533damage from swapping out one little dagger.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

1. If it dies in 30 seconds, you are not procing any treasure hunter increases after the initial hit. If it take longer to kill, you should have wsed.



2. See noodles post below



3. At least we agree that the knife sucks.



4.I didn't tell you to change / delete it because it was derogatory, inflammatory (although judging by the responses it is to thiefs), racist, or sexist. You should delete / change it so that other people don't get the impression that it is true, and end up looking silly on another thread by repeating it. However, if you just like evoking angry responses and spreading fodder, by all means continue. Just know that everyone wants you to stop.

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1. Yea it is always a judgement call that is never really easy to make. Sometimes it is a good call sometimes it not such is life.

2. Yea I saw and replied. LOL I'm pretty sure people wont like it but that just how I see things so I'm sure there will be plenty of detractors.

3. Well yes but I was thinking more along the lines as the Treasure Hunter implementation stinks. If it was up to me I would keep the traits as it is as I have no problem with the trait itself and how it works. My concern is how the Treasure Hound effectiveness is implemented an being limited to just the current mob which is the real source of the problem. Personally I think this would be better:

Name: Connoisseur

Increases Treasure Hunter effectiveness and lowers evasion.

• Obtained: Thief Level 55
• Recast Time: 15:00
• Duration: 30-90 minutes

This would prevent it from being accessable as support job and increase drop rates from levels 55-90 when Treasure Hunter III becomes available which is really where all the good stuff to raise your crafts up start to become a factor. It would do just like composure and the effectiveness level wouldn't reset until you zoned. This would render the knife useless yes but then people can quit crying about it and use thier better weapons all the time.

4. Ok well in my short life so far, one thing I have learned is that just is no pleasing people and no really "right" way to say things. Some people will always be offended no matter how you preface or phrase what you say. Even still if there is a right way to say something it still wont change the fact that what is being said will still hurt none the less so at this point in my life I really dont see the point in wasting the energy trying to do that for annonymous people on a forum that I never see in game anyway. While I'm not here to cause a riot, I damn sure am not hear to stroke people egos, kiss a$$ or manage people emotions and reaction to what I say that is their job as a "Mature" adult, NOT MINE.

In any case, despite what it may seem or how it is interpreted some people are determined to see things a certain way no matter how contradictory the evidence presented before them is so save yourself the stress and ignore it.