Merton Vs Odin: What the hell SE?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yamimarik44

There is no translation it is a song, and the title of the song is "Scheibe" meaning "crap" in german basically, so all I was saying was, anything that he has to say is "crap" b/c he has no grounds to stand on, and is just wanting to cause un-needed controversy and wanting attention.

---

I would've just posted the Hitler-flipping-out speech, but that's me.

You know what, fine. If you don't think Odin needs fixing, whatever.

There is a reason this place is the joke it is. I'm done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Septimus

Honestly, I think I put more work into getting other people Empyrean weapons than making a full set of -6 perp staves, it really isn't that hard when you have Empyrean Body and Feet to flatten out your perp cost. Besides, I played through unnerfed CoP, Square stole my sanity years ago.

---

I'm not interested because my avatars are free with Hvergelmir, but I just can't imagine trying to get kill shots with carbuncle... yuk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

I'm sure the staves are well worth it, and you actually free up some invintory space (though not enough probably) from not needing anything other than staff + yinyang robe for BP delay.

---

Well, you really don't free up any inventory space from ability delay gear since there are 8 staves versus 1 staff for perp and 5-6 pieces of gear for ability delay. But I do get 4 MP a tick back from my Avatars and 1 MP a tick back from Elemental spirits outside of Abyssea and before any other form of refresh. That is pretty sick for Voidwatch where you can be a self-sustaining damage machine and stay very far away from the incredibly bad TP moves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarage

You know what, fine. If you don't think Odin needs fixing, whatever.

There is a reason this place is the joke it is. I'm done.

---

No one is saying that Odin doesn't need/deserve a major boost, I am sure that nearly every poster here thinks that he does. However, the majority of posters do not agree with your "no one is allowed to get anything until my demands are met" message. Kaustra and Odin are only similar on the surface, just because someone was able to kill a bunch of Easy Prey to level 95 mobs by using their two-hour AND Elemental Seal AND Manifestation it doesn't mean that the spell will have any practical value on HNMs, NMs, or anything over Even Match. I could go post a video of me using Predator Claws on a Easy Prey mob that takes of 75% of its life, does that mean that every other job should be enraged because SMN is too godly? No, because we know that there are limits to Blood Pact: Rage and that that was used against a trash mob. Same thing with Kaustra, it damaged a bunch of mobs under an incredibly specific circumstance. Let's see the video where the SCH uses Kaustra against a bunch of IT mobs, whoops the SCH just got devoured because things didn't get one-shotted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

I'm not interested because my avatars are free with Hvergelmir, but I just can't imagine trying to get kill shots with carbuncle... yuk.

---

But for the bosses in Voidwatch, it is highly impractical for a SMN to melee. Even the Stage II bosses have tons of horrible AoE moves that can one-shot non-tanks from a moderate distance. It is important to stay far away from their nastiness, having a full compliment of perp staves so that you can try out every Avatar in case its weakness is against a specific Blood Pact.

And there is a fairly significant chance that Empyrean weapon upgrade items are going to come out of Voidwatch, so people should not feel so confident that they will be able to ignore it forever.

Carbuncle, Levianthan, and Titan were the absolute worse because they do so little damage, not to mention that the level 70 blood pacts for Titan and Leviathan love to miss. Those are the staves where it is best to bribe someone to come help melee the mobs down for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Septimus

But for the bosses in Voidwatch, it is highly impractical for a SMN to melee. Even the Stage II bosses have tons of horrible AoE moves that can one-shot non-tanks from a moderate distance. It is important to stay far away from their nastiness, having a full compliment of perp staves so that you can try out every Avatar in case its weakness is against a specific Blood Pact.

And there is a fairly significant chance that Empyrean weapon upgrade items are going to come out of Voidwatch, so people should not feel so confident that they will be able to ignore it forever.

Carbuncle, Levianthan, and Titan were the absolute worse because they do so little damage, not to mention that the level 70 blood pacts for Titan and Leviathan love to miss. Those are the staves where it is best to bribe someone to come help melee the mobs down for you.

---

Please, don't argue with him. He has a superiority complex and several mental handicaps, so it won't do much good. He doesn't believe that SMN is a "stay back and watch it die" job but rather a "i wish i could be a war" job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Please, don't argue with him. He has a superiority complex and several mental handicaps, so it won't do much good. He doesn't believe that SMN is a "stay back and watch it die" job but rather a "i wish i could be a war" job.

---

I am not arguing. Arguing is entirely pointless because neither side can ever win. I am instead explaining my rational. Things that can be done in Abyssea cannot necessarily be done the same way elsewhere. Voidwatch is a very different beast, people need to get used to it or they are going to be incredibly shocked come the next update when the "good times and frequent drop rate" bus comes to a screeching stop and everyone has to load up on the "soul-crushing misery and terrible drop rate" train.

And I am very proud of that last sentence.

It'll become an argument, you see he doesn't have the factories to perceive common sense and rational thought.

I agree with you, either way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Septimus

I am not arguing. Arguing is entirely pointless because neither side can ever win. I am instead explaining my rational. Things that can be done in Abyssea cannot necessarily be done the same way elsewhere. Voidwatch is a very different beast, people need to get used to it or they are going to be incredibly shocked come the next update when the "good times and frequent drop rate" bus comes to a screeching stop and everyone has to load up on the "soul-crushing misery and terrible drop rate" train.

---

From this day forward, my new name for a certain part of my anatomy shall be "'the soul-crushing misery and terrible drop rate' train". I don't even care that drop rate barely makes sense in that context, or that "express" would be more descriptive than just "train". It shall be what it shall be.

Which reminds me, how does Odin perform on VoidWatch monsters? Well, assuming they aren't already whittled down to 50% by the time everything has been procced... I guess that's not an ideal situation for the big guy, now that I think about it. So I guess I'd just say that I'm curious if they're immune/resistant or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Septimus

I am not arguing. Arguing is entirely pointless because neither side can ever win. I am instead explaining my rational. Things that can be done in Abyssea cannot necessarily be done the same way elsewhere. Voidwatch is a very different beast, people need to get used to it or they are going to be incredibly shocked come the next update when the "good times and frequent drop rate" bus comes to a screeching stop and everyone has to load up on the "soul-crushing misery and terrible drop rate" train.

---

You can't be rational to Dallas. I tried that for months and all he gets from that is his WAR complex and how he thinks that he can beat an Ukon WAR in terms of damage and survivability. I now just sit back and watch his arguments (plus, I believe he blacklisted me) and point out the flaws of his argument, the most recent one being that he can kill DC mobs melee in the same time it takes for a SMN who lets the avatar do the job kill 2 EP mobs. So, I guess the emp staff is worth it when you take twice as long to kill something a few levels below you than letting the avatar kill them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Septimus

But for the bosses in Voidwatch, it is highly impractical for a SMN to melee.

---

The features of Hver and Magian perp staves are identical in potency when you don't use the features. Those magian staves offer -perp and -bp timer, 2 things which have been capped by other gear ever since L75. Timer gear is macro-able with no other options. -perp gear can't be replaced since a lot of it is now refresh gear, superior to -perp.

Hvergelmir at least has a regain earring for the worst situations. I'll repeat it here, since no one ever looks for it: 1 TP = 3.6 MP (1800 MP base), only with Myrkr. This is replenishing mp, superior to -perp.

Props to you for getting the staves. I don't know exactly what you will win for completing this task, but I do sincerely hope you will win that mythical rainbow staff. I just leave Hvergelmir on, and if I go somewhere "inconvenient," which is infrequent, I manually put on Soulscourge. Better damage, timer is still 45 seconds, and avatars are still free. Inventory +6-7.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Which reminds me, how does Odin perform on VoidWatch monsters? Well, assuming they aren't already whittled down to 50% by the time everything has been procced... I guess that's not an ideal situation for the big guy, now that I think about it. So I guess I'd just say that I'm curious if they're immune/resistant or not.

---

Ignoring this entire thread, I really hope for the day where SE "forgets" to make a mob immune to Odin's death move, just so you can have a long drawn out fight with a massive mob, and a Summoner in your party uses his two hour and accidentally hits Odin instead of Alexander. The look on everyone's face will be priceless, the tale legendary, and the Summoner a hero, even if SE went and patched it later.

Too bad it is probably just "NM tag = immune to XYZ."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

The features of Hver and Magian perp staves are identical in potency when you don't use the features. Those magian staves offer -perp and -bp timer, 2 things which have been capped by other gear ever since L75. Timer gear is macro-able with no other options. -perp gear can't be replaced since a lot of it is now refresh gear, superior to -perp.

Hvergelmir at least has a regain earring for the worst situations. I'll repeat it here, since no one ever looks for it: 1 TP = 3.6 MP (1800 MP base), only with Myrkr. This is replenishing mp, superior to -perp.

Props to you for getting the staves. I don't know exactly what you will win for completing this task, but I do sincerely hope you will win that mythical rainbow staff. I just leave Hvergelmir on, and if I go somewhere "inconvenient," which is infrequent, I manually put on Soulscourge. Better damage, timer is still 45 seconds, and avatars are still free. Inventory +6-7.

---

Quote:

---

But for the bosses in Voidwatch, it is highly impractical for a SMN to melee.

---

the first is quoted for lolz, the second for truth

So, what about -perp staves turns the resident Ukon WAR on? It doesn't matter what the situation is, you can't undo the L80 perp nerf that rendered the staves useless.

You better start campaigning against the people calling for a cait sith regain favor. That's a sure-fire way to make Hver useful even in BCNMs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

That's a sure-fire way to make Hver useful even in BCNMs.

---

What the heck? Where did that come from? Hver isn't useful period, including BCNMs.

What are you going to do, melee Behemoth at 10% or less? I would LOVE to see you try.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

So, what about -perp staves turns the resident Ukon WAR on? It doesn't matter what the situation is, you can't undo the L80 perp nerf that rendered the staves useless.

You better start campaigning against the people calling for a cait sith regain favor. That's a sure-fire way to make Hver useful even in BCNMs.

---

Well I honestly doubt they would give Cait Sith's favor, assuming regain, more than 4/tick. However that statement also assumes that Cait Sith itself is worth keeping out. Meaning it out DD's Garuda or out supports... other avatars...

At 1/tick regain, you're waiting 5 minutes for 100 TP. That's probably what Cait Sith will start out as. You'd have to keep him out for a while, making it pretty useless in BCNMs/Voidwatch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Well I honestly doubt they would give Cait Sith's favor, assuming regain, more than 4/tick. However that statement also assumes that Cait Sith itself is worth keeping out. Meaning it out DD's Garuda or out supports... other avatars...

At 1/tick regain, you're waiting 5 minutes for 100 TP. That's probably what Cait Sith will start out as. You'd have to keep him out for a while, making it pretty useless in BCNMs/Voidwatch.

---

Dallas doesn't "see" anything unless it directly(and positively) effects SMN melee, this now appears to include picking what will most likely be an inferior Physical DD to Garuda, and likely inferior Magical DD to anything with 5/5 in a merit pact.

inb4 with the moonshade earring he gets 1TP per tick back already so even standing around he would get 2TP per tick, meaning a Myrkr every 2.5 minutes, because even though every SMn has unlimited MP now it's important that he has more unlimited MP than everyone else's unlimited MP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razushu

inb4 with the moonshade earring he gets 1TP per tick back already so even standing around he would get 2TP per tick, meaning a Myrkr every 2.5 minutes, because even though every SMn has unlimited MP now it's important that he has more unlimited MP than everyone else's unlimited MP.

---

Even with Moonshade Earring, he still needs to whack on the mob to get TP in order to keep avatars out. 1 TP per tick or 2 TP per tick will not keep avatars out with the gear he uses, and all it will do is take his 13 hit down to a 12 hit. Which is not a big improvement to be honest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Korpg

Even with Moonshade Earring, he still needs to whack on the mob to get TP in order to keep avatars out. 1 TP per tick or 2 TP per tick will not keep avatars out with the gear he uses, and all it will do is take his 13 hit down to a 12 hit. Which is not a big improvement to be honest.

---

lol I know that, but he doesn't. I was just preempting his counter point. I reckon he'll argue that you don't need to fight the mob, just be engaed but out of AoE range, and Hvergelmir will still be better than a -perp stave, or something equally out there.

LOL, you don't need to whack at the mob...

Also, no one has ever seen people build TP before a fight? Stupid SMN. Build TP, remove favor, done.

Finally, I love the continued expectations that SMN will have unlimited mp, and they are defending a -perp staff like that's the secret. Very stupid SMN. Imagine if some idiot SAM defended Conserve TP for his 5-hit build. You should be shamed back into hiding.

Alright, SMN have Odin, SCH has this sweet looking kill everything in a huge radius, where is DRK's ability to kill everything in a huge radius? After all isn't the point of a damage dealer to deal damage and not be out damaged by the people in the back?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

LOL, you don't need to whack at the mob...

Also, no one has ever seen people build TP before a fight? Stupid SMN. Build TP, remove favor, done.

Finally, I love the continued expectations that SMN will have unlimited mp, and they are defending a -perp staff like that's the secret. Very stupid SMN. Imagine if some idiot SAM defended Conserve TP for his 5-hit build. You should be shamed back into hiding.

---

Called it!:D

So stand around for 5 minutes before a fight, so you can regain MP you wouldn't have lost if you used a -perp set during the fight? Imagine if some idiot SMN defended melee as a fulltime means of keeping their Avatars ou....

Hey short bus, what part of free avatars WITH Hver is too complicated to you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

Hey short bus, what part of free avatars WITH Hver is too complicated to you?

---

LOL

I never said that you can't use Hvergelmir to replenish lost MP from -perp, just that everyone has free Avatars now. I'm merely pointing out the flaws in your argument of:

If I build TP before a fight I can't melee in I can use Mrykr to refill my MP during that fight.

When all you would need to garner the same effect is equip a -perp staff and junp right in, with the added benefit of not being locked into a single weapon.

Perp gear does not replenish anything. You fail SMN 101.

SMN melee is the black hole of the official forums, isn't it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarage

You know what, fine. If you don't think Odin needs fixing, whatever.

There is a reason this place is the joke it is. I'm done.

---

It's more:

"QQ! WTF YOU GIVE SCH SOMETHING SIMILAR TO ODIN? YOU GUYS BETTER FIX ODIN WTF SE?"

Instead of:

"Odin should be adjusted"

As a different topic, but instead the route to cry about SCH was taken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

Perp gear does not replenish anything. You fail SMN 101.

---

I never said it replenishes anything. It does however negate the need to replenish MP that is lost because someone is trying to justify their empyrean weapon.

Back to the question then, what do you think free means?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

Back to the question then, what do you think free means?

---

Don't you have access to a dictionary?

I'm not the epic fail SMN who thinks that perp is better than mp recovery.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

I'm not the epic fail SMN who thinks that perp is better than mp recovery.

---

-perp is better than unnecessary MP recovery, cancelling perp cost saves 13MP a tick. After that MP recovery tools come in to play which is how everyone else gets free Avatars and unlimited MP.

Raz, if you don't know how to get perp down without a magian staff, you can not be spared. Wrap it up, I don't intend on teaching you anything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

Raz, if you don't know how to get perp down without a magian staff, you can not be spared. Wrap it up, I don't intend on teaching you anything else.

---

You're terrible at twisting words you know that? Getting perp down is easy, the TotM staves aren't needed to cap -perp, but they are by far the most efficent single piece for it(Nirvana 90 aside). Getting the +2s isn't necessary to cap -perp, it's necessary to optimise refresh from gear though. I won't baffle you with the math, but the more -perp you can cram into the least amount of gear slots = the more refresh/other beneficial gear you can equip to full time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dallas

LOL, you don't need to whack at the mob...

Also, no one has ever seen people build TP before a fight? Stupid SMN. Build TP, remove favor, done.

Finally, I love the continued expectations that SMN will have unlimited mp, and they are defending a -perp staff like that's the secret. Very stupid SMN. Imagine if some idiot SAM defended Conserve TP for his 5-hit build. You should be shamed back into hiding.

---

Hi guys, I want to melee, but since we all know that if I melee I will die, so I want you guys to wait 5~10 minutes for me to get enough TP to keep my avatar out. Plus, I have to rest my MP afterwards so I can have full MP for the fight, so that will be an additional 3~4 minutes, and I have to do it before every fight. That is just so I can have unlimited MP one time. Yeah, I could have gotten full -perp stuff, but I got this staff for a reason! Please don't kick me out of the party though, like everyone else did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Korpg

Hi guys, I want to melee, but since we all know that if I melee I will die, so I want you guys to wait 5~10 minutes for me to get enough TP to keep my avatar out. Plus, I have to rest my MP afterwards so I can have full MP for the fight, so that will be an additional 3~4 minutes, and I have to do it before every fight. That is just so I can have unlimited MP one time. Yeah, I could have gotten full -perp stuff, but I got this staff for a reason! Please don't kick me out of the party though, like everyone else did.

---

Didn't I tell ya?

You did Raz, you told everyone what Dallas is going to say 15 minutes before he even said it, so he is not only dumb enough to become monotone, but also dumb enough to not read what you said and not say something different.