[Suggestion] How to reintroduce HNMLS gameplay in FFXI Lv99‏

I respect the OP for his well formed, and thought out Post. However, I don't think HNMs are going to bring back what you're really after. Emotions.

Think of it like this, You're remembering how much excitement you felt back when you got the Rare item you wanted, or what have you. In a sense, You're trying to recapture the excitement of that first victory, or the first rare item you got.

I remember the first piece of Sky gear i got, Hecatomb Feet, Loved them to death, Was so happy. Only later masked by Valor Surcoat, and Valor Cape.

But you have to remember, What you're doing is essentially trying to relive your best moments. its like when people try to play new MMOs, basically trying to recapture that feeling of awe they felt when they played their first MMO.

Its like your first real girlfriend/relationship. Sure other relationships are nice, but none will quite match that mystery, or excitement, of that first real intimate relationship.

Basically, what you're asking for won't bring you want you're seeking, Excitement or Emotion. Its really quite simple, Its like an Old man dreaming of his youth, You're wanting something you can't have.

Even if they brought back world spawn HNMs, It won't give you the excitement you felt back then. Nothing will. Its only natural :|.

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I want people to push hard, so sure. Kill new players easily, but make them understand that it was easy. Got to make the game feel natural, like something that anyone can do.

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Actually quite true, but it's sad at the same time that the primary source of enjoyment was not from the HNM itself but what was done to pass the time waiting for it to pop.

I ahve to agree, that even if the old HNM scene suddenly returned, you would not get the same emotional attachment to it now that you did then. I'ts just something that happens as time goes on.

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Originally Posted by Lafaiel

The problem with world HNM and this game though Hercule, this game is old, and many players that started long ago do not have the time to camp HNM anymore, most that were in college or young at the time now have wives and children, homes and bills to pay. Most of the older players cannot do that anymore but they are also the ones that stay around because of friends and time invested.

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I keep hearing this argument in several threads, and I completely understand it. Here's the thing, though, if people have grown up and won't stay up until 4AM anymore, wouldn't that make HNM camping better? The way HNMs were intended was to cycle through different timezones, so every region would get a shot at claiming it (hence the 21h-24h repop window). If the window got to early, you had two choices: either screw over your schedule to camp it, or leave it to the guys in the respective timezone. And in older days, people would always choose the first option. However, if now people start being more casual about it and not give a crap, wouldn't that system start to work out? People would camp it when it's in their timezone, and others would camp it in their timezones. Effectively the rate at which your schedule agrees with the NM window will be smaller (say from 6PM to 12AM instead of 4PM to 4AM), however, since that will likely affect people from all over the globe, the competition in that smaller personal window will also be less. Sure, there will be some people who do have more free time, and they'll still show up in your HNM window, but some also won't.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Sure, just like I don't have to go to work, or pay my bills. But guess what? Nobody likes partying with a smelly homeless scrub. In game or out.

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I also hear this argument over and over, and I completely agree with it. However, there are ways to counter that, ways that SE employed for the last few years: make alternate routes to obtain said gear. Abjurations could be obtained from Einherjar, Black Belt items from KS99, most other things were not exclusive and could be bought. So in the end doing HNM camping wasn't as much about obtaining items as it was about selling them and making money. There were only a handful of notable HNM drops and even they became money items after a while (Ridill and Hauteclaire) and the only item I remember that no LS would sell was Defending Ring. And none of them were required in any way or even gave a significant edge over other items (again, excluding Defending Ring). I don't remember a single time hearing a WAR wouldn't get invited without a Ridill (or Adaberk, for that matter, but that's another story) or a PLD without a Hauteclaire (or Defending Ring).

Could you agree with a system that doesn't force you to participate, but only offers you additional ways to get to new content? It feels to me like most people will simply want to be part of endgame, but don't want to be part of the HNM scene, which is why they're against it. Which is something I can agree with, but if the game indeed offers alternate routes and if people are indeed more mature and casual these days, it shouldn't be hard to find people who simply don't do HNMs (or just casual HNMs), but still everything else endgame.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Even if they brought back world spawn HNMs, It won't give you the excitement you felt back then. Nothing will. Its only natural :|.

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Very nice post. Very sad too, but very true. Even I don't believe HNMs will ever be what they used to be (or, for that matter, FFXI itself). I just don't see anything wrong with adding something optional that people used to enjoy (if it is indeed optional, SE would have to make an effort to design a good system for it). I have to admit, I was also more attached to the emotion that came with the experience of camping HNMs than HNM camping itself. Your post was a bit of an (maybe unwanted) eye-opener. I'm starting to wonder whether I'd enjoy HNMs as much if it was new again.

Well, I think part of that is though, if they released new HNMs and an alternative route to getting tthe items they drop (einherjar, BCNM), most people will prob just do the alternative route so while others will be able to camp HNMs again, they wont get that same excitement since there wouldn't be as much competition for them and creating that drama they seem to like.

Also, with the way the game has gone (not needed large LS to get things done, even something like VW is done more so through shouting and seeing up runs though seacom), I don't think many people would be willing to join a larger LS again to fight such nms (after all, more people = more chance to claim)

I do understand what you mean, but I think in the end, adding HNMs along with alternate routes to getting their drops, won't accomplish what people really want when it comes to HNMs.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I also hear this argument over and over, and I completely agree with it. However, there are ways to counter that, ways that SE employed for the last few years: make alternate routes to obtain said gear. Abjurations could be obtained from Einherjar, Black Belt items from KS99, most other things were not exclusive and could be bought. So in the end doing HNM camping wasn't as much about obtaining items as it was about selling them and making money. There were only a handful of notable HNM drops and even they became money items after a while (Ridill and Hauteclaire) and the only item I remember that no LS would sell was Defending Ring. And none of them were required in any way or even gave a significant edge over other items (again, excluding Defending Ring). I don't remember a single time hearing a WAR wouldn't get invited without a Ridill (or Adaberk, for that matter, but that's another story) or a PLD without a Hauteclaire (or Defending Ring).

Could you agree with a system that doesn't force you to participate, but only offers you additional ways to get to new content? It feels to me like most people will simply want to be part of endgame, but don't want to be part of the HNM scene, which is why they're against it. Which is something I can agree with, but if the game indeed offers alternate routes and if people are indeed more mature and casual these days, it shouldn't be hard to find people who simply don't do HNMs (or just casual HNMs), but still everything else endgame.

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There's really no way around the fact that they would be botted. It's a terrible idea, regardless of how it's implemented.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

There's really no way around the fact that they would be botted. It's a terrible idea, regardless of how it's implemented.

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If it's implemented in a traditional sense, yes. Something like what the OP suggested would make botting impossible.

Regardless, my point was that if there was an alternate route, people wouldn't have to put up with botting (or not botting, whatever the case my be). People could ignore it altogether if they didn't wanna be a part of it.

Funny story, the other HNM proponents don't like HNMs for the battles. They like it for the drama, the botting, and the trash talk.

You can't say "They can implement world spawns without those!" because they wouldn't be world spawns. Random claims wouldn't make most of these people truly happy either unless they were one of the shells that couldn't afford (or were too slow to buy) NASA.

Besides, random claims just puts emphasis on the number of bodies you have present rather than any sort of skill. That's the single worst facet of HNMs and hardly needs to be extrapolated even further.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

If it's implemented in a traditional sense, yes. Something like what the OP suggested would make botting impossible.

Regardless, my point was that if there was an alternate route, people wouldn't have to put up with botting (or not botting, whatever the case my be). People could ignore it altogether if they didn't wanna be a part of it.

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The only way people could avoid it entirely is if it had nothing worth doing it for. In his system, people would just use bots to cap valor points or w/e currency they use for it on 1,000 mule accounts.

Even if no one found a way to cheat, that claim system is almost completely random once everyone has points, meaning people could do it forever and never get the drop no matter how good they are. There seriously is no way to make a cheat free lottery / timed spawn NM system. The whole concept of Timed and lottery spawns is poor. If people want to waste hours / days / weeks camping an NM, Argus still has a good drop. Have fun.

Chram was outdated when Visions of Abyssea was released.

HNMs= so many tears. Can you imagine the outrage? It was be.. chaos on these forums. The rivers of tears would be epic.
It would be down right cruel.