Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by Arconis

I fully Support raising Cap to 70+ all leeching has done for the game is make old areas obsolete and baron of people no one party's anymore. What is point of MMO if your not out partying and meeting new people and friends. As Abyssea stands right now game has gotten stagnant no one does anything but goto Abyssea and leech as many jobs as they can to 90, whats the point so you can get Maat's Cap oh wow now that was challenging wasn't it not. Let bring the fun back to all areas (The World) in game not just Abyssea.

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I absolutely agree

then don't leech in abyssea and don't leech gear off other players. No one is making someone leech or not. If you want to level up the old way fine. Don't enter abyssea and don't level sync.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

I have personal PL'd them on many occasions long before TAU even existed.(No, the leecher wasn't the one fighting.) We've just found a new and exciting way to do it.

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This ^ as well as all the endgame gear someone can leech off of an LS or group they are not needed.

I support this but really? 173 pages? I believe this thread needs to die.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

I support this but really? 173 pages? I believe this thread needs to die.

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Someone's just going to make a new thread. You don't remember Krystal?

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

I support this but really? 173 pages? I believe this thread needs to die.

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but new people keep coming in and telling us their idea.

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Originally Posted by Nacht

Someone's just going to make a new thread. You don't remember Krystal?

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I thought she died off already >_>

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

I thought she died off already >_>

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There will always be someone to take up the Krystal mantle. If there wasn't, this thread would be 150 pages shorter.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

I thought she died off already >_>

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Well I didn't mean Krystal was going to make a new thread. I meant someone else would, similar to how Krystal made useless thread after useless thread.

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Originally Posted by Gunit

then don't leech in abyssea and don't leech gear off other players. No one is making someone leech or not. If you want to level up the old way fine. Don't enter abyssea and don't level sync.

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The old leeching was strongly limited, PL still keept the Pl outside pt and the Leecher needed to kill mobs by himself. Eighter no EXP. And the exp reward was low becouse you couldnt kill stronger mobs. Whould take too long.

Sure we enter Abyssea, but for gears, not to leech, and noone should be able to enter abyssea for leeching. Becouse you got nothing from that, just bad habits.

Anyways sleeptime for me, GN.

In pretty much every FF there's a small area/island that has high level mobs where you can level faster if you go and grind in that area. Isn't that what Abyssea is in a way? I mean I take 2 or 3 of my characters with 1 or 2 of my lower level guys and head to the island. The max level guys kill the mobs fast so the lower level chars can catch up, then go to a town, gear them up and get to the last boss. Would you rather sit around Coneria to level all your characters to the max?

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Sure we enter Abyssea, but for gears, not to leech, and noone should be able to enter abyssea for leeching. Becouse you got nothing from that, just bad habits.

Anyways sleeptime for me, GN.

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Saves time for leveling SJs. Who cares if someone knows how to play a job, if all they're going to use it for is as a SJ.

Have the people who support raising the cap so that people are forced to exp the "old way" ever questioned why there is no one to exp with when trying to make an exp party for the "old way" style of exping?

Just a thought but maybe its cuz they like the new way :D

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

There will always be someone to take up the Krystal mantle. If there wasn't, this thread would be 150 pages shorter.

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Yeah you really wear that mantle perfectly, its suits you. For keeping the wrong idea that leeching is okey.

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Originally Posted by Sprieth

In pretty much every FF there's a small area/island that has high level mobs where you can level faster if you go and grind in that area. Isn't that what Abyssea is in a way? I mean I take 2 or 3 of my characters with 1 or 2 of my lower level guys and head to the island. The max level guys kill the mobs fast so the lower level chars can catch up, then go to a town, gear them up and get to the last boss. Would you rather sit around Coneria to level all your characters to the max?

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Or... there's some gimpass character that can't do shit (Rydia when you first get her) who leeches along side other characters that do all the work.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

The old leeching was strongly limited, PL still keept the Pl outside pt and the Leecher needed to kill mobs by himself. Eighter no EXP. And the exp reward was low becouse you couldnt kill stronger mobs. Whould take too long.

Sure we enter Abyssea, but for gears, not to leech, and noone should be able to enter abyssea for leeching. Becouse you got nothing from that, just bad habits.

Anyways sleeptime for me, GN.

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So you just enter abyssea to leech gear off other people? Its still leeching lol.

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Originally Posted by Nacht

Or... there's some gimpass character that can't do shit (Rydia when you first get her) who leeches along side other characters that do all the work.

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Don't worry though, she gets better. Unlike some idiots in Vana'diel.

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Originally Posted by Sprieth

In pretty much every FF there's a small area/island that has high level mobs where you can level faster if you go and grind in that area. Isn't that what Abyssea is in a way? I mean I take 2 or 3 of my characters with 1 or 2 of my lower level guys and head to the island. The max level guys kill the mobs fast so the lower level chars can catch up, then go to a town, gear them up and get to the last boss. Would you rather sit around Coneria to level all your characters to the max?

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Well you low level chars could get killed by 1 strike in that FF part of the area.
And its grinding.
Abyssea is no grinding, its pure leeching with overstated exp reward for level 30.
Huge difference.
And now really GN.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Well you low level chars could get killed by 1 strike in that FF part of the area.
And its grinding.
Abyssea is no grinding, its pure leeching with overstated exp reward for level 30.
Huge difference.
And now really GN.

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wait so pretty much even if a party of 90 go there to merit it's still pure leeching?

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Originally Posted by Gunit

So you just enter abyssea to leech gear off other people? Its still leeching lol.

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Doing something togehter on your true level to get a reward is teamwork and is no leeching.
Beeing a level 30 openeing chest, or getting synched up to 90 while orginaly beeing 30 is cheating.

Final goodnight, GF is waiting.

It is very much leeching if you not helping the group and don't need to be there.

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Originally Posted by Juxtaposition

please restrict abyssea content to only level 90s ty they ruining my experiences

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LOL!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Gunit

It is very much leeching if you not helping the group and don't need to be there.

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If you dont help the group then gtfo the area, we need no afk ppl who dont do anything, you get warped out of any area from BLM if you do such a think, thats how it has been in FFXI all the time, you stand afk in Dynamis? D2 goodbye.

Ok GF is angry. Im off >.<

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Doing something togehter on your true level to get a reward is teamwork and is no leeching.
Beeing a level 30 openeing chest, or getting synched up to 90 while orginaly beeing 30 is cheating.

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Why bother playing anymore? If synching and abyssea is cheating then what else is left? Basically if I try to level at all I will be considered a cheater now. If you don't want the game to be updated play a offline FF while finding a FF chat forum. That way the game will never change and you won't have to worry.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Doing something togehter on your true level to get a reward is teamwork and is no leeching.
Beeing a level 30 openeing chest, or getting synched up to 90 while orginaly beeing 30 is cheating.

Final goodnight, GF is waiting.

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As a linkshell we have an unstated rule regarding Empyrean weapons from Tahrongi Canyon. If you want one there, you're going to AoE burn for chests and most of the linkshell is going to leech a job.

As a team, there are several of us opening the contents of chests for keyitems while other members of the team focus on killing shit. By working as a team, we maximize the number of chests we obtain. If we were to do this on a level 90 job, it's unfair that we get no reward (from exp chests) for helping our linkshell members obtain their empyrean weapons while we take on the incredibly important task of holding key items for them.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

will say this though. I think its better for the new player if abyssea is 70 or 75, that could be part of the reason of lack of new people, even though we been getting lack of new people for a while.

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I think part of the fact that there's no new people is because:

A) SE never aggressively marketed FFXI
B) SE Flailed with FFXIV and brought shame to their name as an MMO provider (because ppl don't understand the roman numerals and think only of it as "Final Fantasy Online" and how they're hearing how much that game sucks!
C) The few people on other MMO forums that know the difference between XI and XIV blast XI for its primitive graphics.
D) Without the PS2 holding us back, we could have had a complete graphical overhaul similar to what WoW had done (I guess, never played it after that but i heard it had better 3-D graphics or something)
E) People defending to the death their 640x480 Obsolete2 consoles.
F) Japan is a ripe target for natural disasters. It's been pointed out in other forums that interruption or discontinuation of service was always a possibility there (more so than in most other places).
G) SE is STILL not marketing their online game. In fact, I wonder if they aren't secretly trying to brush XIV under the rug and starting a new MMO. XIV is like Windows Vista - it had such a horrible start that no matter what M$ did to turn it around (and it eventually didn't turn out to be a TERRIBLE OS), nobody wanted anything to do with it because of its reputation. SE is lying low and hoping they're more or less forgotten by the current gen of MMO players. Then when they're forgotten, they'll pop out like they're a completely new company and blow the onlookers away with gorgeous gfx, non laggy controls, great story, but (and this is 12 years from now) you STILL won't be able to Alt+Tab in fullscreen mode without crashing the game. Which brings me to H:
H) Final Fantasy Online games are the only MMOs or any kind of DX games that simply CANNOT be Alt-Tabbed out of in fullscreen mode. Not because of technical difficulties. Not because of lack of programming skill. This was intentionally added to the game 8 1/2 years ago to force monopolization of the computer so that cheat programs couldn't be manipulated in the background (is what I assume anyway, else WHY would anyone do this?!). This practice not only didn't stop cheats from being developed, it hastened their development as people that wanted a sizable Window and Alt-Tab banded together to make a wrapper for FFXI. Windower opened the door to all kinds of bots, hacks and cheats. Flash forward 8 years:
SE releases its next MMO - which still can't Alt-Tab without crashing.
I) Nevermind how much SE bowed and scraped after the fact, they completely ignored the cries of the hacking victims from '07. They blameshifted on people that used gilbuying sites without knowing the situation - that legit FFXI info sites (as well as many other MMOs) had their ad banner servers compromised to deliver drive-by exploits. I blasted them in a post for their Official Statement on the matter, which I summed up as this:

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We have received reports that a popular third-party FINAL FANTASY XI website had been infecting customers with malicious software...

We suggest that our customers read up on precautionary measures they can take to ensure the safety of their information online.

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Square Enix, a company who cares... about your money.

Work on all of the above and stop developing for hardware that is already on its way to extinction and releasing halfassed games, then maybe some new people will want to join!

People who think that the PS2 (or 360, or PS3) is what keeps FFXI from having "omg uber graphix" never cease to amaze me.

Protip: No.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Well you low level chars could get killed by 1 strike in that FF part of the area.
And its grinding.
Abyssea is no grinding, its pure leeching with overstated exp reward for level 30.
Huge difference.

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I know I`m late to the party but I`m amazed that people keep regurgitating the same nonsense about this...

A lot of people like leeching in Abyss for the following (but not limited to) reasons
-It's a sub they want to level, equipping it is a waste of time and money
-They have the skills capped from other jobs, traditional leveling is a waste of time and money
-Leveling jobs to 90 gets boring after several jobs

Why must you all try to block the enjoyment of people who prefer it for the above reasons? I don`t understand

The `it makes bad players` argument has been pointed out as a total fallacy several times in this thread and is no longer valid as an argument, sorry.

The solutions to this perceived `problem` are these:
-Don`t allow an excess of leechers in your groups (If you don`t make the groups then stop complaining because you haven`t actually tried to fix the `problem`)
-Don`t exp in abyss. There are plenty of ways to make EXP outside. News flash: you don`t need a full 6 man party to pull in reasonable EXP in a group.

Raising the level cap in Abyss will do two things, and not much more:
-Annoy the hell out of a lot of people
-Make a lot of people quit

Both of those things are far, far worse for the game than the perceived issues stemming from leeching, which people are fabricating for their own devices really.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

People who think that the PS2 (or 360, or PS3) is what keeps FFXI from having "omg uber graphix" never cease to amaze me.

Protip: No.

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So true, the amount of stupid is pure entertainment.

Leeching means you are contributing nothing, like the lv 70+ people who stand around at the dominion ops NPC. If your xp group is good, keying the chests keeps you busy the whole time, and you're spending 50,000 cruor per stack of keys, which you can go through very fast. Therefore, if you're lv 30 or lv 90, you're contributing the same thing, and you're your true level, too!

Pre-abyssea "leeching", the leech just stood in korroloka tunnel or in an xp party and did nothing. In abyssea, the leech has to actively contribute to the group. You could also level jobs over time via xp scrolls and campaign ops, without fighting a single mob.

The pro-increase arguments have been debunked again and again, only to be repeated with an "its cheating, its wrong, it kills low level stuff that about 10 people want to do!" Most of the playerbase has done the grind, several times, and don't want to go through with it for the 5th or 8th or 12th time.

If people wanted to do low level content, you'd see shouts for eco-warrior or garrison.

SE has taken a stance on grinding before. Its called the April 21, 2005 update.

What? XI has way better graphics than a certain more popular MMO, I fail to see how that's the problem.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

What? XI has way better graphics than a certain more popular MMO, I fail to see how that's the problem.

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You're thinking design, not graphics.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

What? XI has way better graphics than a certain more popular MMO, I fail to see how that's the problem.

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I agree.. WOW graphics suck.. its like a cartoon. No realism!

Edit: What i mean is... I would rather see FFXI more realistic design in lower lvl graphics than cartoony design in high lvl graphics.

I'm pretty sure I'm thinking graphics because my character is still better dressed than they could ever hope to be.

The graphics could be redoable even without dropping PS2 support, so that's not really why

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Originally Posted by Skybrit

I agree.. WOW graphics suck.. its like a cartoon. No realism!

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Lol, the technical quality of WoW's graphics are much higher than in FF11. The art direction is however (in my opinion) utter shit.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

The graphics would be redoable even without dropping PS2 support, so that's not really why

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Other way around. They could release significantly larger textures (taking up much more hard drive space for PC users), but they cannot perform a complete overhaul of the graphics without reprogramming the entire game engine. Even if they dropped PS2, they could not make FFXI look like FFXIV. Ever.

They could redo most of the engine without changing the PS2 version. As long as both clients are compatible with the servers, both can coexist. Graphics overhaul is therefore possible without scrapping PS2. :)

There are however a lots of non-graphical features that you couldn't add without creating incompatibilities between the versions.

Is it likely to be financially viable to keep two very different clients up to date simultaneously? nope.jpg

BUT I WILL NEVER STOP HOPING

i truth be told have mixed feelings. on one had the old FoV sucked and Qufim was unbelievable crowded, but i never had much of a problem making lv 55 bird camp parties pulling off 10k+ exp an hr with the right set up. As for Abyssea i have 8 lv 90 jobs and one 80 (MNK) That i did Leech from 38 to 70 b4 i can actually got to fight. In all honesty i felt like i was not pulling my weight unlike being like being n a party would demand. With all of that being said Both ways have valid qualities, but as is stands now for example WG lv sync 55 parties can make decent gil off of Imp. Gold Pieces being 20k a pop. Now i am not sure about if the Exp Raise includes WG and Shadow zone (and if n e one has info i would love to know) but if it did with a decent party you can make 100k with in a few hrs. Now as for Abyssea, It is with out competition as being the best Exp area Hands down!!!!!! Gil drops come and go with a group of 18. So in "some" cases not all, some (old school) party can become profitable that is a +.... But as for Abyssea "most" ppl go there Exp, and as i said earlier wins hands down if you are basing it on EXP/hr... I have my own opinion's about Leeching Some may agrees some may not but its a game ppl play game to enjoy "themselve" NOT for everyone else............. Like i said if n e one know if the Exp raised included WG and Shadow Zones please let me know ^^

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Leeching means you are contributing nothing, like the lv 70+ people who stand around at the dominion ops NPC. If your xp group is good, keying the chests keeps you busy the whole time, and you're spending 50,000 cruor per stack of keys, which you can go through very fast. Therefore, if you're lv 30 or lv 90, you're contributing the same thing, and you're your true level, too!

Pre-abyssea "leeching", the leech just stood in korroloka tunnel or in an xp party and did nothing. In abyssea, the leech has to actively contribute to the group. You could also level jobs over time via xp scrolls and campaign ops, without fighting a single mob.

The pro-increase arguments have been debunked again and again, only to be repeated with an "its cheating, its wrong, it kills low level stuff that about 10 people want to do!" Most of the playerbase has done the grind, several times, and don't want to go through with it for the 5th or 8th or 12th time.

If people wanted to do low level content, you'd see shouts for eco-warrior or garrison.

SE has taken a stance on grinding before. Its called the April 21, 2005 update.

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I don't think you can even "grind" anymore like we used to back in the day. I just took Rng from 20-65 in about 3 weeks without the Abyss and I dont play 24-7 or even every night. The increases in exp for the regular areas has made a huge difference. I think its a great opportunity for new players to earn some lvls and get some of the storyline done before endgame comes into play.

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Originally Posted by Nacht

Some of you people need to get it through your heads retarded people are going to be retarded no matter how they level jobs. Even if a retard levels outside of abyssea, they're still going to be retarded.

Decent/good people are going to do decent/good at their jobs no matter how they level. Knowledgeable players are going to play their jobs relatively well regardless of whether they leeched in abyssea or not.

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This needs to be repeated here.