Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

I disagree vehemently that raising the minimum level would be beneficial.

Over the past few months, my linkshell has had an influx of new and returning players -- people who had been interested in the game but dissuaded by their initial impressions; people who last played when Chains of Promathia was new and got the nostalgia itch, people who serendipitously picked up a FF game for $5 on Steam -- and Abyssea has been the best way of letting the veterans and novices play together without boring the veterans or excluding the novices. The new players can contribute meaningfully to the group by opening chests, doing quests and helping with Raises and Cures, instead of being inert sync targets like in Korroloka Tunnel burn parties. Most importantly, it quickly brings the new players up to speed with the rest of us, so they can participate in the real interesting stuff. They level up their skills for the Maat fight, so they're not completely helpless by the time they hit 90.

Raising the level minimum wouldn't dissuade serial leechers from finding the lowest-effort way to get EXP -- they'd just return to the slightly slower methods of summoner burns and chigoe parties.

But guys, before abyssea came out, average was above average! All pick up pt members were utterly epic in performance!

I remember when Abyssea first came out, finished leveling all my mains up to the new cap, and then went back to leveling my lower job (at the time, it was SAM 45).

"Hey can I join your abyssea party? NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 70, GTFO NOOB" > Back to leveling in East Ronfaure (S) birds

Level 65: "Hey, let me into your abyssea part... NO, NOT HIGH ENOUGH LEVEL GTFO" > Reluctantly continue leveling in East Ronfaure (S) birds

Level 69 "INVITE ME DAMMIT! Ok, you can come to abyssea :)" > Proceed to whiff forever because your skills are capped on level 40 birds from East Ronfaure (S) -_-

SAM 90 has never looked better

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Originally Posted by darkShirou

I remember when Abyssea first came out, finished leveling all my mains up to the new cap, and then went back to leveling my lower job (at the time, it was SAM 45).

"Hey can I join your abyssea party? NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 70, GTFO NOOB" > Back to leveling in East Ronfaure (S) birds

Level 65: "Hey, let me into your abyssea part... NO, NOT HIGH ENOUGH LEVEL GTFO" > Reluctantly continue leveling in East Ronfaure (S) birds

Level 69 "INVITE ME DAMMIT! Ok, you can come to abyssea :)" > Proceed to whiff forever because your skills are capped on level 40 birds from East Ronfaure (S) -_-

SAM 90 has never looked better

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Skill-up properly first.
Also, if people won't accept you, make your own.
Anyone with a few Traverser Stones and the knowledge of getting Visitant Status can make a party and have it work out for itself.
Even if you don't have Cruor for Keys, recruit one or two box openers and then start keying after you have some Cruor.

We should just go back to 20 levels of robber crabs too, because that made really good players...

No allow lv30 players and what not , allows all players to have FUN, not be frustrated like old days. yea there gimp as hell but they will learn and go get there skill ups and what not, what need be done though make it harder on endgame once square done making game easy.
Yes it has sucks spending years on game then seeing a person level up in day a few lv90;s but you will still got something they never got that is game exp.
Amount returning players on new players would hate it , so back to servers 1/4 full.
ABYSSEA should been on the game 3 yrs ago and none this would been a point about lvs.

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Originally Posted by Dubberrucky

Well on a happy note those of us who believe that aby burning is cheap. Think of it this way the trend has already begun on my server of the aby burners getting all their jobs to 90, grabbing gear as fast as they can, getting bored, and leaving the game. By next year its only logical most of the aby burners will be done and leave FFXI to those of us who like the entire game not just part of it and a sense of accomplishment in getting our jobs to 90. Even though this will probably mean more server merges which never seem to go well.

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You don't like the entire game, lol

- I would rather spend my time doing Endgame events than spending mass amounts of time leveling.
- There were horrible players in 2003 as there are now. Leeching in Aby doesn't change the fact.
- Key leechers are needed in XP, it takes the job away from 75+ jobs that can kill mobs faster.
- Key leechers consume large amounts of Cruor to trade off for XP. Saves 75+ jobs Cruor for brewing.
- Areas outside of Aby got an XP increase and unlimited FOV, the option is still there.
- Would rather have multiple XP options for different play styles and playtimes Vs more restrictions.

I suspect that leeching jobs up in Abyssea is forever going to be a sore spot between two large and vocal camps, the same as chigoe burns / astral burns and to a lesser extent That Third Party Program. I don't think we'll be able to reconcile differences there, and thirteen pages of shouting at each other over it is certainly not going to fix the problem.

From my perspective, this boils down to "Hey Devs, this isn't fair, raise the level requirement" vs "You know what's not fair? Slogging through the old way" - which may be valid, but isn't much of a counterargument to raising the level requirement. Put another way, longwinded illustration argument:

A: "I want to be able to play another job, it would help me enjoy the game more and help out my friends." (Valid)
B: "So level a new job, you obviously have more knowledge and resources than you did the first time." (Valid)
A: "Starting a new job takes too much time. I need to be useful at the endgame, not at level 30. I'd need to spend weeks or even months to take a job all the way to 90 - that's a lot of effort in the name of utility. I'd rather burn it to the top then fill in the blanks." (Valid)
B: "So there's no journey, just destination? You'd rather have a button that says 'make me max levels on all jobs' because specializing in one or two isn't good enough and you don't want to spend any effort? Being able to build a house would be fulfilling and useful, but you don't just buy a degree online and start cutting wood." (Valid)
A: "Video games aren't real life. They're supposed to be fun. Grinding xp for hours isn't fun." (Valid for many people)
B: "You knew what you were getting into when you signed up for an MMO. Effort, Advancement, Actualization." (Valid)

Really both sides have their valid points, and that's not getting into "Endgame is the only game" and "Hey, I -like- leveling" arguments. Just a very complex issue that's really not going to have a victor unless the devs force one on us. They've been getting an earful of it for a long time now, I'd love to hear the opinions of individual members of the development team on the matter.

They have no valid points, lol they just want to force their way of playstyle on everyone else.

Us: level how you want
Them: Level my way or gtfo

People also complained about the same thing even before Aby.
Mostly 70+
- Bones Parties
- Mana Burns
- Bird Merit Parties

Any level
- AF Burn Parties

At least Aby XP isn't completely restricted to certain jobs and gives ppl the opportunity to level other jobs deemed not XP worthy by the "Community" at whatever point in time.

While I can understand some ppl like the old fashioned way, however the option is still there to do so if you find others with the same interest. As on my server I still see Qufim level syncs all the time.

How about this, if you like being legit, play the nostalgia way, which my LS on Odin is doing.
For those who dont care about the feeling of accomplishment and the sentimental value behind a piece of equipment let them be cheap and scoot through 30-90 with no skills, no spells, and the feeling of "ok im done now what".

Going through rank missions, farming for gear the normal way are just some of the reasons why people think aby just ruins the fun in the game. Its like someone just hit an easy button to get to 90

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Its like someone just hit an easy button to get to 90

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Exp'ing was hard?

I've never once said that people shouldn't be leveling the old way if they like it. By all means, get to 90 in whatever manner pleases you.

Just don't start asking for restrictions on the ways you -don't- like exp'ing, since there are likely some that like it that way. I like my leeching, thanks. And I don't do it with idiots, my LS does LS only leech runs on Sundays, only three of us are actually killing any of the mobs, everyone else is getting free exp, and we rotate each week. So we're not helping the derps of Vana'diel get to level 90, unlike all the pickup groups.

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

my LS does LS only leech runs on Sundays

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The much preferred method as you are also contributing to your LS with job variety for events. More LSes should be doing this and I don't understand why they shouldn't. It's a win win when properly rotated.

Abyssea is the best thing that happened with leveling in this game. If I have to go through Qufim Island for the 9001th time because of people want the level cap in Abyssea to get increased to 70, I think quitting is a very good option in case I want to use a different job.

I really don't have a problem with the method people use to level their jobs. In fact, I think it's fine for jobs where the skills for that job may already be capped, or at least close to capped. If you've got capped skills, then you probably know what you're doing or can figure it out.

The problem is, Abyssea consumes nearly the entire player population, making it almost impossible to find, or even form, a party in a reasonable amount of time. There is no incentive to form a regular party post-level 30. Abyssea has drained and broken every other battle endeavor in the game. Regular parties are dead. Campaign is dead. Besieged is dead, etc.

The level-floor needs to be raised, not to punish people who want to burn a job, but to re-purpose the areas and systems that were in place long before Abyssea made them obsolete.

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For those who dont care about the feeling of accomplishment and the sentimental value behind a piece of equipment let them be cheap and scoot through 30-90 with no skills, no spells, and the feeling of "ok im done now what".

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I'll never understand you people who think the game ends when you get an armor. What background do you come from? Pokemon? As I see it, the fun doesn't even start until you get the armor. It is like how DOOM is boring until you get something else than your hand gun. (My favorite is the shotgun) Or how Final Fantasy 5 is boring until you get your jobs.

I'm sure some people enjoy those early sections of games, but I promise you the majority likes it best further into the games.

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Originally Posted by Sagian

I really don't have a problem with the method people use to level their jobs. In fact, I think it's fine for jobs where the skills for that job may already be capped, or at least close to capped. If you've got capped skills, then you probably know what you're doing or can figure it out.

The problem is, Abyssea consumes nearly the entire player population, making it almost impossible to find, or even form, a party in a reasonable amount of time. There is no incentive to form a regular party post-level 30. Abyssea has drained and broken every other battle endeavor in the game. Regular parties are dead. Campaign is dead. Besieged is dead, etc.

The level-floor needs to be raised, not to punish people who want to burn a job, but to re-purpose the areas and systems that were in place long before Abyssea made them obsolete.

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And that's what SE is doing~ they have plans for older battle content~ i believe they are currently going to implement new things for Campaign this upcoming update~ who knows maybe they will even consider Besiege if there is enough demand for it.

Honestly, who is this hurting? No one. Most Abyssea parties I have been in have only one leech, keywhoring. So it's not like they're taking anything away from the party. Any party that has 4 or 5 leeches I usually just drop and put my flag up again.

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Originally Posted by Sagian

I really don't have a problem with the method people use to level their jobs. In fact, I think it's fine for jobs where the skills for that job may already be capped, or at least close to capped. If you've got capped skills, then you probably know what you're doing or can figure it out.

The problem is, Abyssea consumes nearly the entire player population, making it almost impossible to find, or even form, a party in a reasonable amount of time. There is no incentive to form a regular party post-level 30. Abyssea has drained and broken every other battle endeavor in the game. Regular parties are dead. Campaign is dead. Besieged is dead, etc.

The level-floor needs to be raised, not to punish people who want to burn a job, but to re-purpose the areas and systems that were in place long before Abyssea made them obsolete.

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Higher level parties were already rare before Abyssea came out and spending hours to look after a party didn't seem unusual.

I'm hoping they'll keep revamping the game like they did with Abyssea, so you can be more productive and not get the feeling you have to work yourself up in levels because the game says so. They're changing Campaign and Dynamis, both which I think greatly needs changes since they're both outdated by today's standards. If anything I hope they make TOAU more friendly for either solo or low man parties to level up in those zones.

i believe the main reason why there are hardly any low level parties is that there are hardly any low levels anymore T.T.

SE needs to make EXP chains start at Decent challenges. Also make the time required in between chains to keep it going longer~ that way low man parties or even solo can make a decent amount of exp T.T

that's just my thought

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Originally Posted by Solonuke

Higher level parties were already rare before Abyssea came out and spending hours to look after a party didn't seem unusual.

I'm hoping they'll keep revamping the game like they did with Abyssea, so you can be more productive and not get the feeling you have to work yourself up in levels because the game says so. They're changing Campaign and Dynamis, both which I think greatly needs changes since they're both outdated by today's standards. If anything I hope they make TOAU more friendly for either solo or low man parties to level up in those zones.

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I'm just going to chalk it up to another bit of poor planning by SE. Old content should have been revamped pre-Abyssea. It would not have been difficult to predict what was going to happen when you open areas that give insane XP and equipment.

I'm hoping they continue to try to fix this somehow. I never thought I would say this, but I actually miss Garlaige Citadel, Crawlers Nest, etc.

You know something is wrong when a level 60 doesn't even know where Garlaige Citadel is.

I disagree. If people want to KH then that's fine. Really it's not going to bother you or anyone else. Only a rare few people actually show their failure. Nothing to worry about. Shouldn't waste your time trying to fix something that doesn't need fixing.

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Originally Posted by Sagian

I'm just going to chalk it up to another bit of poor planning by SE. Old content should have been revamped pre-Abyssea. It would not have been difficult to predict what was going to happen when you open areas that give insane XP and equipment.

I'm hoping they continue to try to fix this somehow. I never thought I would say this, but I actually miss Garlaige Citadel, Crawlers Nest, etc.

You know something is wrong when a level 60 doesn't even know where Garlaige Citadel is.

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I could probably list up a whole amount of people who haven't been in the [S] zones yet, plus people who don't know where White Gate is.

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Originally Posted by Solonuke

I could probably list up a whole amount of people who haven't been in the [S] zones yet, plus people who don't know where White Gate is.

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These people have existed forever.
Pre-Abyssea it was not difficult to find various, gimpy geared people, at level 70+, who hardly know any Exp Camps outside of Qufim/Dunes. Level Sync was gimping idiots far before Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by rog

They aren't starting now, we've been leeching exp for years with chigoe, and astral burns anyway. Don't pretend free exp didn't exist prior to abyssea.

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Fair enough, there will always be leeches. And yes, no one will argue that there's not plenty of 'free exp' as you call it. While I doubt you will, I beseech you to examine the number of people actually doing it and reconsider your position. The problem I and others have with abyssea leeching is not that it's possible, but that it's so trivial to do. Unless you've got some linkshell full of summoners, it's not exactly easy to come across 4 of them.

http://oi51.tinypic.com/63w035.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bahamut_Norm

http://oi51.tinypic.com/63w035.jpg

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OMG!! Abyssea is OVER 9000!!

Easy to see that people don't know what the hell they want. Easy exp! Earned exp! Easy seals! No hard to earn seals! I want to solo! Noooo Game imbalance! *ramble ramble ramble* :P

Cest la vie (that's life), some like the hard way others like to take the easy way. Personally I like the hard way, got maats pre smn burns and abyssea (yes I want a cookie), but I can see why people would want to take the easy way. They should however have the common sense to solo their skills / buy spells afterwards so they aren't lv 90 while lv 10 skill in their main hand weapon etc. :P

Raising the level cap may seem like it would fix the no gear on the ah, gimp players and what not, but sadly the reality is, if they took this away all they would do would be a shift to smn burning lv sync'ing to fast camps etc. It would sadly solve nothing. If a player is going to be lazy, level up fast, and play with gimp ass skills; they're going to do it regardless of what enforcements you put in place.

I agree players should know the basics of their job and actually play through rather than level up their locksmithing skills, but you can't enforce your ways on another player. In the end they'll keep playing how they want :P

FFXI + Aby = Overnight Lvl90 n00b FTW

Hey that's life, aaand overtime that Lv90 newb will learn to play his/her job. They arnt going to bother you or ruin your gameplay. Most people have "common sense". I think this is a matter of jealousy... Why else would people waste their time getting angry over people who are playing their job up just fine.

Besides I think everyones here has burned a job up once or more.

If someone has a burned job and they didn't bother skilling up along the way you'll know. And you won't party with them again. Who care's about the 30 cap. It's a dead issue. A smart player will burn a job, then spend hours upon hours capping their weapon and magic skills. When you see a 90 BLM that cant land a nuke on a level 60 mob dump em and get a skilled BLM. Big deal.

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Originally Posted by Lilsanchez

Besides I think everyones here has burned a job up once or more.

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WRONG or it wouldn't even be a debate

Leeching is just as cheep a tactic as buying gil in my opinion. Jealousy is not a factor here regardless of what people in support of leeching think. Why would I be jealous of someone who rushed any game they paid their hard earned money for just to suck at the job they leeched? No, its silly to me but their choice and if aby level requirements are raised those silly people who do not want to play the first half of the game will just go back to smn burns for more exp than before thanks to updates so whats the problem? And yes despite what you may think leeched jobs more likely than not suck even on otherwise good players with very few exceptions. Several of even my friends who I used to be able to count on to be up to par now have worthless jobs thanks to feeling forced to aby burn or solo since a limited amount of people seek after 30. Aby leeching may not be the place it began but it definitely spread the problem like wildfire, at least on my server where smn burns were not common until our server merge last year.

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Leeching is just as cheep a tactic as buying gil in my opinion.

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You know what they say about opinions.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

You know what they say about opinions.

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That this thread is all opinion just like any other :P

Expecting people to fight a bunch of robber crabs, colibri, etc. is as cheap as buying gil in my opinion!

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Expecting people to fight a bunch of robber crabs, colibri, etc. is as cheap as buying gil in my opinion!

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Stretch much to prove a point that our opinions differ? lol but nice to see you again I hope you will bring me more laughable opinions today to amuse me :)

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Expecting people to fight a bunch of robber crabs, colibri, etc. is as cheap as buying gil in my opinion!

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and in my opinion that make's you lazy. lol
I have all 20 job's unlocked, the lvl range is vast, 30-78. And i enjoy leveling them the good'ol way. My drg is lv78, and i didn't use abyssea to level it, that was through party's and soloing. Iv been in 3 abyssea party's, only for merit's on my drg, and i can say this... it wasn't fun, it was boring. My major and really only problem with abyssea is the fact that it's taking away from party's else where in the game. I like working hard and keeping my skills caped to my lvl as much as possible. But I'm also saddened that all these player's are forgoing the rest of the game, FF11's game world is slowly being turned into abyssea only, and the developer's hard work on the other area's is going to waist because of it. And what's worse is that many time's in party's iv had, someone would get tells from people they don't know in abyssea wanting them to come... i mean, first off how do they even know they're real lvl? we're synced under lv30.