Any new HNM coming?

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

No fame in killing fafnir etc either, it's just who claims.

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Pretty much this.

If you're that worried about how you look to other people (omg this guy can claim an NM, he's so effin cool), then idk what to tell you.

Most of my posts are satire actually :( and it's the idea of fun for an extremely small destructive minority.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

113 posts, willing to bet most are complaints? just sayin. don't bash my idea of fun bc you don't approve.

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It has nothing to do with bashing. It's just true. Fafnir was never hard. Nidhogg was never hard. it's all in the claiming, so it comes down to which shell's bots are that day's victor.

I'm excited to hear about a new HNM, this is some great news.

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It has nothing to do with bashing. It's just true. Fafnir was never hard. Nidhogg was never hard. it's all in the claiming, so it comes down to which shell's bots are that day's victor.

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They were challenging when they added them, best you could do at the time was pld/wars tanking and smns doing blinkga rotations with DD struggling damage it. After many updates and merits etc they became a hell of a lot easier and it was all about claim though yeah, wasn't even worth hanging around once a shell got claim in the last few years cause even crappy shells never wiped..even the ones that kept linking all the darters could recover easily.

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Ppl who whine about bots need to suck it up, i went to Fafhogg for a year and maby got 3 or 4 claims a month when there would be 100 ppl in aery, same with KB.

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I did them for about 4 years I think, we got about the same claim rate..4-5 a month if we were lucky and maybe 1 HQ every few months. The 2 other botting LS got the rest and never left DA, winning by cheating should never be this obvious. If they learned nothing from HNM of old they better be ready for a hell of a lot more botting, everyone will bot now cause they have just had enough and it's been written in stone that cheaters are winners in FFXI.

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When SW/DI came out my PS2 stomped all the competition using bots, why? because botters aren't focused as someone who is spamming WS till it pops. Im not saying i don't get where your comming from, i know how frustrating it is to lose claim, but when you do claim you feel really good "awwwwww yea whose mad now?!" like that. I never gave up thats why i got so good claiming vs SW/DI.

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I was the same but you know what? You spent 5-6 hours scanning constantly since it had no windows, the death point scanners were watching teletubbies on youtube while you worked your ass off for 6 hours straight and with enough mules they could still beat you out on those now since both those HNM had very specific spawn spots on the map.

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They wiped SO many times to cerb bc they weren't smart enough to stun.

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Bots stun stuff.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Ppl who whine about bots need to suck it up, i went to Fafhogg for a year and maby got 3 or 4 claims a month when there would be 100 ppl in aery, same with KB. When SW/DI came out my PS2 stomped all the competition using bots, why? because botters aren't focused as someone who is spamming WS till it pops. Im not saying i don't get where your comming from, i know how frustrating it is to lose claim, but when you do claim you feel really good "awwwwww yea whose mad now?!" like that. I never gave up thats why i got so good claiming vs SW/DI. No lie my group beat a LS with 30 scanners (1 on each pop spot and 1 on Death spot per zone for them) almost every time bc they were so obsessed with getting bots and claimers out there that they would die holding and watch us claim bc we know how to hold and have 2-3 pairs of powder boots each. A LS like that will only excel at easy NM that pop in small areas. They wiped SO many times to cerb bc they weren't smart enough to stun.

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I'm sorry but the old NM(HNM) system in this game is just poor game design. I do not care how you argue it...putting monsters in that have revolving spawn times and have 21-24 hour respwans with 3 hour spawn windows (or worse) is poor game design. Endgame content should be about making fights that are a real challenge yet accessible to anyone that wants to participate. The old system forced you to be in an HNM shell due to the spawn mechanics and it is unrealistic for people to have to get up at 3AM to participate in content because some LS decided to hold King Arturo for 5 hours.

The game has consistently been moving away from the old HNM system seeing as the majority of endgame content since Zilart has been instanced, or forced spawn with the end results being things like Abyssea, Nyzul, Assault, etc. They still threw in some absurd HNMs to appease the LSs that think fun is sitting somewhere for 4 hours and spamming a provoke macro for 30 seconds every 30 min. The result? Many people liked Nyzul, and Assault, and pretty much anyone who is playing currently likes the abyssea system. The reason is because unlike with HNMs, you get rewarded for the time put in as well as the effort, whereas I would venture to guess that the vast majority of players have never even seen (let alone killed) Dark Ixion.

TL;DR: Endgame content should be about teamwork and effort, not about who can spam their provoke macro the fastest or who can have the most players awake at 3 AM.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

113 posts, willing to bet most are complaints? just sayin. don't bash my idea of fun bc you don't approve.

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Your idea of fun comes at the price of inconveniencing others.

I really hope the devs can make a comment on how they plan to implement the spawn system cause I think thats as important as the fact they are adding them, if they are world spawns or anything we have seen before I'll just pretend they don't exist as content as will a lot of others. No point getting excited about content tthat is being made for botters, hell not even botters in general but the serious botters with more powerful claiming systems.

As long as it doesn't require hours of camping, and competing with other claimers on better connections than I have, I think this is a good idea.

Only inconvenient if you see it that way, all i see is pessimism in most of the ppl posting, its gonna be another ??? HNM or something that actually requires skill to kill thats hard to find out in the field.

One idea might be to have the old school HNM system (rotating 21-24 hour respawn with 3 hour pop window and everything) AND a BCNM type battle field that people could enter and fight the same mob. Make it so that the drop rate might be higher (not absurdly so) for the HNM but make sure that everything that drops from said HNM still drops from the BCNM. Kinda like how we have the KSNM battles for Black Belt items - just put the "abjuration" drops in the pool, as well. Then, those that like competing with others (whether botting or not) have a chance at still enjoying their aspect of the game but everyone else that would rather not participate in the "botting" fest have their chance to get the items, too.

I really hope this "new HNM are coming" isn't the first sign of the dev team trying to push FFXI back to the old types of endgame, I don't think they will be ready for the backlash if they try that after allowing everyone to do content to making it just for the few with bots or putting every endgame event on a timetable to log on to. Did the old pre-abyssea XI staff working on FFXIV that got fired come back to FFXI recently? >_>

Idk about anyone else but I got sick of dynamis/limbus/Ein/salvage at "time" twice a week that all cost money (very often at times you had to stay up late to attend) and HNM camps for the rest of the time you were online. Could be the FFXI update of FFXIV proportions if they try that.

World spawns will rise again.

And retards with it.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Only inconvenient if you see it that way, all i see is pessimism in most of the ppl posting, its gonna be another ??? HNM or something that actually requires skill to kill thats hard to find out in the field.

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I suppose you'll only be happy if they drop the best gear in the game right? Cause you know only people with no lives and bots deserve to have that gear right?

the real life card? well played sir, well played.


Edit: i would be happy, why add the best gear to stuff that can be spammed? at least with HNM you see who really put the time/work in to earn it.

Seriously though content should be available to everyone not a select few with big wallets to spend on bots.

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Seriously though content should be available to everyone not a select few with big wallets to spend on bots.

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It used to be accepted cause it was how FFXI was, people accepted that do get an Ebody you had to join certain botting shells or buy it off a RMT linkshell and that was just how it was. They changed all that with Abyssea and many people came back due to the changes, so people really won't take it very well if they try to go back down that road now lol

Can the FFXI dev team be stupid enough to try change the game back now? will see I guess. Old HNM = Botting and linkshells that sold the drops for RMT.

This staff comment is more worrying than exciting to me, I wish they would post how they plan them to be spawned or something. If they are going back to old FFXI I'm calling it quits after 8 years, I've had enough of that crappy bot ridden life draining endgame. Can't give people steak and go back to coconuts.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

It used to be accepted cause it was how FFXI was, people accepted that do get an Ebody you had to join certain botting shells or buy it off a RMT linkshell and that was just how it was. They changed all that with Abyssea and many people came back due to the changes, so people really won't take it very well if they try to go back down that road now lol

Can the FFXI dev team be stupid enough to try change the game back now? will see I guess. Old HNM = Botting and linkshells that sold the drops for RMT.

This staff comment is more worrying than exciting to me, I wish they would post how they plan them to be spawned or something. If they are going back to old FFXI I'm calling it quits after 8 years, I've had enough of that crappy bot ridden life draining endgame. Can't give people steak and go back to coconuts.

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Yeah complaining about botting kings is a moot point at this point. I just don't want to see SE add more bottable HNMs.

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Originally Posted by Satyr

I'm sorry but the old NM(HNM) system in this game is just poor game design. I do not care how you argue it...putting monsters in that have revolving spawn times and have 21-24 hour respwans with 3 hour spawn windows (or worse) is poor game design. Endgame content should be about making fights that are a real challenge yet accessible to anyone that wants to participate. The old system forced you to be in an HNM shell due to the spawn mechanics and it is unrealistic for people to have to get up at 3AM to participate in content because some LS decided to hold King Arturo for 5 hours.

The game has consistently been moving away from the old HNM system seeing as the majority of endgame content since Zilart has been instanced, or forced spawn with the end results being things like Abyssea, Nyzul, Assault, etc. They still threw in some absurd HNMs to appease the LSs that think fun is sitting somewhere for 4 hours and spamming a provoke macro for 30 seconds every 30 min. The result? Many people liked Nyzul, and Assault, and pretty much anyone who is playing currently likes the abyssea system. The reason is because unlike with HNMs, you get rewarded for the time put in as well as the effort, whereas I would venture to guess that the vast majority of players have never even seen (let alone killed) Dark Ixion.

TL;DR: Endgame content should be about teamwork and effort, not about who can spam their provoke macro the fastest or who can have the most players awake at 3 AM.

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I couldn't have said it better myself. No one in their right mind likes spending hours upon hours sitting in one spot to claim one NM that spawns once a day. It's ridiculous and it shouldn't be done.

I'm pretty sure SE has learned from their mistakes and we won't be seeing 24 hour day spawns ever again.

EDIT: I hope we'll get a chance to somehow fight the great dragon Drogaroga. :)

"Botting" was the biggest problem which disabled the fun factor for legit players everywhere and I don't think we deserve to suffer the consequences from those who are lazy, greedy or who are utterly disrespectful and inconsiderate of the rest of the community. The game suffers, more countermeasures are added and it's plain cheating the challenge. If there was a way to tracked third party tools, how come "botters" where never punished?

Okay, enough of my yappin, I think the zones where HNMs reside are just plain targeted because of the lack of precaution needed to claim them when they pop. Let's say you need more than one person (like six members), the area would be guarded by EP mobs with no value that would link to the ground king if it aggroes any by-standards.

I think the same method would apply as to the fisher-bots, keep the character activated and busy. No two set of bots would constantly be doing two things at the same time and before you know it, they'll be dead, or reported and probably banned.

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Originally Posted by Satyr

I would venture to guess that the vast majority of players have never even seen (let alone killed) Dark Ixion.

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Funny enough I just saw dark Ixion awhile ago, wandering around, no one interested at all...

Because he does no longer drop anything interesting. Which is just proof of how nobody kills a single HNM for challenge, only for items.

The hoel thing stupid. It better not be 21 to 24 hour+ spawn nm agan i do not want to see botting come back agan. Unfair to everyone who is trying to play the game fair and legit.

There are only three possibilities for HNM "challenge"

A. A 100% win strategy is figured out, and it becomes easy.

B. It's impossible to kill (e.g. oldschool Absolute Virtue)

C. Whether you win or loose is a lottery based on what it does. Either you get lucky and win or you are unlucky and it does something and destroys you.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Because he does no longer drop anything interesting. Which is just proof of how nobody kills a single HNM for challenge, only for items.

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I remember something I read years ago about this.

"People who claim to want "challenge" in MMO endgame bosses are clearly lying. They don't want a challenge, they want something slightly harder than easy"

An example of this in FFXI would be Einherjar. People said they wanted king/sky gear without having to camp and SE gave it to them. Then they complained that Einherjar was too hard, so SE dumbed it down. Then they complained that they had to show up to a 30 minute event twice a week so SE changed it so only the person trading the lamp had to have all feathers.. Then they complained that the drop rates were too low.

People will never stop complaining until everything they want is handed out by a NPC for free.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I remember something I read years ago about this.

"People who claim to want "challenge" in MMO endgame bosses are clearly lying. They don't want a challenge, they want something slightly harder than easy"

An example of this in FFXI would be Einherjar. People said they wanted king/sky gear without having to camp and SE gave it to them. Then they complained that Einherjar was too hard, so SE dumbed it down. Then they complained that they had to show up to a 30 minute event twice a week so SE changed it so only the person trading the lamp had to have all feathers.. Then they complained that the drop rates were too low.

People will never stop complaining until everything they want is handed out by a NPC for free.

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I do not want anything handed to me i just want a system that more fair and does not promote cheating aka botting. It is unfair to the people who actualy trying to play the game right. Harder more challenging nms is ok by me as long as being able to fight the nm is fair for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Sasukeuchiha

I do not want anything handed to me i just want a system that more fair and does not promot cheating aka botting. ITs unfair to the people who actualy trying to play the game right. Harder more chalanging nms is ok by me as long as being able to fight the nm is fair for everyone.

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If that's true then you shouldn't have any problems with this idea:

Have the mob stay yellow for 5 seconds after it pops. During this time anyone can attack it. After 5 seconds are up claim will be passed to a random person on the mob's hate list.

This way you still have the excitement and competition of world spawns because you have to be paying attention and be fast to get into the claim pool. But bots would give no advantage to claiming the mob.

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Originally Posted by Sasukeuchiha

I do not want anything handed to me i just want a system that more fair and does not promote cheating aka botting. It is unfair to the people who actualy trying to play the game right. Harder more challenging nms is ok by me as long as being able to fight the nm is fair for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

If that's true then you shouldn't have any problems with this idea:

Have the mob stay yellow for 5 seconds after it pops. During this time anyone can attack it. After 5 seconds are up claim will be passed to a random person on the mob's hate list.

This way you have to be paying attention and be fast to get into the claim pool and bots won't give any advantage to claiming the mob.

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I beleave they still did that with old hnms and people still botte. The time spawn 21 to 24+ spawn nms just promoted botting. Harder is good promoting cheating is not.

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Originally Posted by Sasukeuchiha

I beleave they still did that with old hnms and people still botte. The time spawn 21 to 24+ spawn nms just promoted botting. Harder is good promoting cheating is not.

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No they did not do that. What they did was make the mob unclaimable for 0.5-3 seconds after it spawns and if you try to claim it during this "unclaimable" window your abilities are stunned for a few seconds.

If you did the reverse of that i.e. make the mob able to be attacked by anyone for a few seconds window after it pops and then pass claim randomly to someone who attacked it then it would make bots completely useless. It wouldn't matter if they botted or not because it wouldn't increase their chance of getting claim.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

No they did not do that. What they did was make the mob unclaimable for 0.5-3 seconds after it spawns and if you try to claim it during this "unclaimable" window your abilities are stunned for a few seconds.

If you did the reverse of that i.e. make the mob able to be attacked by anyone for a few seconds window after it pops and then pass claim randomly to someone who attacked it then it would make bots completely useless. It wouldn't matter if they botted or not because it wouldn't increase their chance of getting claim.

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Well that would work but without a dout someone with time will find a way to manipulate the system just to make sure they get the nm anyway. They need a way better way to camp and claim a nm then a 21 to 24+ hour spawn nm.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

the real life card? well played sir, well played.


Edit: i would be happy, why add the best gear to stuff that can be spammed? at least with HNM you see who really put the time/work in to earn it.

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Because sitting around for up to 3hrs at a time is your definition of work?

A NM doesn't have to be a 21-24 hour spawn to be difficult, lol.

"Oh hey, I put in so much work. I sat there for 3 hours, actually tried to claim it for 2 minutes, and fought it for 20 minutes!"

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Greetings fellow adventurers!

Seems like many of you are looking for a new challenge in Vana'diel.
It's great to know that spirits for a challenge is burning in your heart.

Well guess what? Dev. team is working on to implement new HNM in the next major version update! :D

More details will become avaialble soon so stay tuned!

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Hooray. New army of botfests.

Respectfully, I welcome the challenge of some HNMs that are tougher than what is out now. Force spawn is cool, but having a little old school time popping isn't bad neither. I agree with everyone about the bots. People who use them, clearly are more than just cheaters, they are poor sports. I mean, why else would you want to use a tool to claim a monster from everyone else ALL THE TIME? lol.

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Originally Posted by BurnNotice

Respectfully, I welcome the challenge of some HNMs that are tougher than what is out now. Force spawn is cool, but having a little old school time popping isn't bad neither. I agree with everyone about the bots. People who use them, clearly are more than just cheaters, they are poor sports. I mean, why else would you want to use a tool to claim a monster from everyone else ALL THE TIME? lol.

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So you can sell ridills to noobs for 20 mil each.

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Originally Posted by Sasukeuchiha

Well that would work but without a dout someone with time will find a way to manipulate the system just to make sure they get the nm anyway. They need a way better way to camp and claim a nm then a 21 to 24+ hour spawn nm.

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And how exactly are they going to do that? You need to come up with something better than "they'll use their magic powers to find a way around it... somehow"

I think the real problem here is that you just don't like competition.

However some people do and they deserve to enjoy the game as much as people who don't like to compete.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

And how exactly are they going to do that? You need to come up with something better than "they'll use their magic powers to find a way around it... somehow"

I think the real problem here is that you just don't like competition.

However some people do and they deserve to enjoy the game as much as people who don't like to compete.

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So only you people who like competition deserve the gear that would come from these HNMs.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

And how exactly are they going to do that? You need to come up with something better than "they'll use their magic powers to find a way around it... somehow"

I think the real problem here is that you just don't like competition.

However some people do and they deserve to enjoy the game as much as people who don't like to compete.

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The isue is a 21 to 24+ time spawn nm is going to promot cheating. Unless it has a extreaming high drop rate to get the botting people away from it soon to let the people who want to play fair have a chance the hole system is flawed. They need to impliment a system that does not promote cheating. There nothing rong with compition is the fact people wont have there fair chance at the nm.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Greetings fellow adventurers!

Seems like many of you are looking for a new challenge in Vana'diel.
It's great to know that spirits for a challenge is burning in your heart.

Well guess what? Dev. team is working on to implement new HNM in the next major version update! :D

More details will become availalble soon so stay tuned!

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^+1 I approve this message!

Timed world pops were the best. That new abyssea crap is mehhh... sure it's fun for all but FF in it's roots has been more about the stature. Spamming abyssea nm's and e'one in the same gear is ftl. World spawn HNM's would be ftw and might bring players back. AFk'n @ joachim with what you whiners will never equip so you can see it on your way to get what e'one else has. And fyi I did quit; after 8 years it was time to go. Might come back for some old skool DA action!