The official Dark Knight adjustment and suggestion topic.

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Originally Posted by Taint

Lets pray then aren't intelligent then.

Maybe all the DRKs preeching Magic damage don't have the gear to compete on the melee side, or never played when DRK was considered a top tier job. Or they forget how BLM was used prior to Abyssea. Casting in this game will never compete with buffed Melees.

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I can't agree more, if we want to be relevant again they must boost our melee/ws aspects. Casting is great and a nice utility but people just seem to ignore the fact that to get a spot as a dd, you have to actually do damage comparable to war, mnk, drg, rng, nin, etc. I'm not saying beat, but being able to hang with the rest is the idea. Otherwise we're a token job suitable for standing in jeuno and looking pretty in our full bale+2

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Originally Posted by Taint

Lets pray then aren't intelligent then.

Maybe all the DRKs preeching Magic damage don't have the gear to compete on the melee side, or never played when DRK was considered a top tier job. Or they forget how BLM was used prior to Abyssea. Casting in this game will never compete with buffed Melees.

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You act as if doing DRK melee in PvE is hard. Your gear argument is ridiculous, I have excellent gear.

You act as if everyone who wants the job with second highest INT, second highest elemental and #1 dark magic to have more magic is asking for something that doesn't logically follow.
On that note I don't believe I ever said "our melee is perfectly fine" it sure as hell is not.

Melee is simple and so is PvE, capped haste set up, WS setups for every WS, research mobs and adjust ATK and Stat Mod gear accordingly.

People preaching magic don't want the job to be Monk, you have a Monk and a Masamune.

So if you are so obsessed with pure Melee go play them?


They don't have MP pools, and I'm sure you have excellent gear.

The argument is not that our melee is fine, and to just boost magic.

The real point is that both need to be fixed, the game has several other damage dealing jobs with no MP pools or magic. Why the hell would we want to be more of jobs that already exist, and that you have: MNK and SAM.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

You act as if doing DRK melee in PvE is hard. Your gear argument is ridiculous, I have excellent gear.

You act as if everyone who wants the job with second highest INT, second highest elemental and #1 dark magic to have more magic is asking for something that doesn't logically follow.
On that note I don't believe I ever said "our melee is perfectly fine" it sure as hell is not.

Melee is simple and so is PvE, capped haste set up, WS setups for every WS, research mobs and adjust ATK and Stat Mod gear accordingly.

People preaching magic don't want the job to be Monk, you have a Monk and a Masamune.

So if you are so obsessed with pure Melee go play them?


They don't have MP pools, and I'm sure you have excellent gear.

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i do agree we need new magic as well as something like BLM new trait to speed spells up

With the release of the "Like" system, please rate-up this topic so the dev team might take it more seriously, in case they haven't already.

I was talking to Urteil earlier and he mentioned Dark Magic "nuke" spells. Dark mgaic spells tailor made to deal damage, much like there is Banish and Holy for Divine Magic.

That may give room for us to make use out of Occult Accument and make us have reason to get INT and Dark Magic skill builds against monsters that normally there wouldn't be any need to DD on.

Urteil's idea so he has that credit. I invite him to mention anything different to his idea from what I posted.


Also, I admit the idea of "Stances" are growing on me. In fact, I think many of our woes can be fixed this way. Think about it.

Melee Stance
Pros: Includes some or All of these

• Increased Last Resort Duration.
• Higher Critical Hit% or Critical Damage added to Weapon Skills
• Higher Critical Hit Damage
• Maybe a little bit of a Haste boost, like 5%.
• Increased Parry Rate

Cons: Includes some or all of these.

• Longer Dark Magic recast time.
• More Enmity Generated (Might be good for those acting as Tanks though)
• Occult Acumen Trait cancelled.
• Longer Dark Magic casting time.

Magic Stance
Pros: Includes some or all of these.

• Greatly Shortened Dark Magic casting time.
• Shortened Magic recasting time.
• Potent Magic Attack Bonus
• Boosted Dark Magic Skill
• Slower decay on Absorb spells
• Attack while casting?

Cons: Includes some or all of these.

• Slower delay on melee attacks (10% Slow or something to that extent)
• Lowered Attack and Defense
• Lowered Parry and Evasion

This could include a lot of our requests into 2 job abilities and balance things out with each ability's cons. We'll get a melee boost when we DD and a magic boost when we can't so we can have more uses overall.

What thoughts does everyone else have on this?

I like the stances thing, but reduced defense needs to be taken away, Dark Knight drastically needs survivability not to have things or anything taken away from it.

If anything the Dark magic stance should drastically buff dread spikes; in addition to the other ideas were very plausible and sound.


On that note, dread spikes needs to be buffed to where it has a higher threshold of damage, 75% base, with the AF+2 boosting it to 100% of your max hp. Have you seen the crazy shit BLU gets? It honestly is a drop in a bucket compared to that crap, that and OR:

Remove the one minute duration, extend the duration to three to five minutes so it doesn't wear off before the limit is reached, as it stands its a rather useless spell.

So either have a stance that has the side effect of boosting its power greatly, or the spell needs to be fixed.

And Dread Spikes is nerfed so badly in ballista its stupid, 20%? Come on what the hell.

Just recently started playing DRK again, slightly annoyed by how lame we seem to be at the minute!
Here are my suggestions:

Idea 1) First off, a pair of Job traits to make casting worthwhile.
"Job trait 1": When any absorb spell is used on the enemy, for the duration of the absorbed effect, the caster also gains an increased Crit Hit rate. Multiple tiers increase Crit Hit %.
"Job trait 2": When the DRK scores a crit hit, they gain a buff for a very short period of time (~3 sec?). During this window, all direct damage dark and elemental spells have their cast time reduced to near instant (think stun cast time). Wears off after 1 cast. Multiple tiers increase duration of window of opportunity.

My reasoning behind this is thus: A crit hit boost is good for DD... so DRK will want to keep an Absorb effect up at all times (so more absorb casting). Then, when they do get a crit, they have a short time in which to cast a Nuke. Even if it's weak, with a short cast time it's basically free damage (plus free TP from occult accumen). These traits should be gained low enough to encourage casting... lv50 or something?

Idea 2) New spells
Absorb: X II: A second tier of absorbs. These should have near atma levels of stat boosts. I also thought it would be nice if they applied a small "Drain over time" effect.
This DoT would help make up for the melee swings lost during casting. Furthermore, as each Absorb would be its own debuff, you could potentially stack many of these DoTs. Would also add some survivability, esp in longer fights.

Idea 3) Job ability to help with casting
"Blood Price": User sacrifices 10% of their HP in order to instantly cast their next spell.

I personally think this idea is less cool than idea 1, but perhaps "better"... I suppose it would need a suitable recast for balance etc. Would be nice if it could be used when subbed, lv40?

GDI... i just typed a really long post just to have it erased cuz the site logged me out automatically... (i knew i shoulda copy-pasted first)

Anyways... here's my 2 cents:

1. I know people want to increase Last Resort's duration... but instead of going with with a mock Berserk... why not just add better job abilities/traits...going by it's name... it should be a LAST resort... not FIRST resort... and maybe if they DO buff it... make it stronger that Berserk... it IS the LAST resort after all... maybe add abilities something along the lines of buffing WS damage/crit rate/crit damage/haste/fast cast/recast reduction or some other stat that affects direct damage...

2. HP/MP/TP... DRK is known to be the job that specializes in sacrificing themselves to damage their foes... Going with that theme... why not take that to the next level... instead of just having Souleater... how about abilities that consume TP or MP to increase their damage (kinda like MP Attack in FFIX)... or maybe an ability to use HP/TP to cast spells... or an ability that consumes MP or HP to use/buff weapon skill... Also someone brought up the idea of having a trait that increases damage as HP goes down... Since most JA's tend to have a trade-off... DRK's trade off is health consumption... or maybe have some overpowered ability's side-effect to be a short weakened state...

3. After using up yourself and dealing all that damage...time for recovery... Since DRK also specializes in draining/absorbing as well... take that to the next level too... first of all... CHANGE THE 2 HOUR ABILITY!!!... DRG had its 2hr changed... why not DRK?... Blood weapon is powerful yes... but why not make the recast more readily available?... it'll be one the DRK's major arsenal as recovery from just ravaging that poor bluffalo with its HP consuming abilities... that being said... maybe the new 2hr should be something that makes your abilities (going from suggestion #2) not consume HP and be in the low-HP-high damage state without having HP be in that level... maybe also add more ways to drain/restore HP... not just with spells... or maybe some ability to restore HP with TP (kinda like Chivalry for HP... not so much a Curing Waltz)... also maybe have some ability that uses HP to recover MP (kind of like a self-use devotion not so much convert)... also... maybe also reduce enmity generation of these abilities... or maybe some ability that consumes HP/MP to reduce enmity... i just think its funny that other jobs get some defensive abilities... and DRK gets.. what... arcane circle?

4. Spells/Abilities... on top of the abilities suggested above... I agree with everyone about adding more absorb-stat spells and having no decay... What I don't agree with is being able to attack while casting... maybe... just reduce the casting times instead... 1 second or less... maybe along the lines of the length of a JA animation... i also agree about dark-type nukes maybe make them have some added effect as well (plague, virus, amnesia, def-down to arcana or some other non-elementally attached enfeeble) (always thought that Doomed-family ability "Abyss Blast" would be a good example for the dark spell)... dread spikes and endark are good ideas... maybe improve their effects a little... also maybe an ability that turns your weapon damage into dark elemental damage (ala formless strikes)...

5. Weapon skills... my idea would be some kind of AoE drain WS (kinda like blood drain... maybe magic damage based) instead/on top of the PAINFULLY DREADFUL infernal scythe... i mean... with all gear available to drk... it's still not gonna match other WS's in damage... might as well make it useful... Also, i agree with improving modifiers to WS... and maybe increase them at the 100 TP level... as far as a crit based WS... WS's shouldnt be a DRK's main source of high damage... HP-consuming abilities that improve every swing should be the focus IMO... strong enough that it the damage from every swing + WS damage would add up and be comparable to spike-damaged-RR-buffed-crit WS... example: maybe DRK can do 700-1k damage on a buffed critical hit :X... and maybe in brew mode... every DRK swing does 2k damage :X... i mean our main weapons isnt about fast hits... its about strong slow hits...

Gah... my mind is spent... im really pissed that the stuff i typed earlier got erased... now my train of thought is gone... and i might have missed some of the ideas i typed earlier... but hopefully these suggestions would pique ideas... im sure some would disagree.. but hey... this is my opinion...

Meh, don't like the idea of tier II abs-spell. DRK doesn't need any more spells in that aspect, getting rid of the decay is the way to go. Dread Spikes should remain the same % but increase its duration. I like the idea of casting while you melee, it would make DRK much more versatile; the problem isn't so much as casting speed imo as people wanting to not have the negative effects from their /sam, and honestly. ~That's too bad~ People chose to go the heavy DD / TP / WS route, they can't have it both ways, its a good limiter. For WS I'd like to see another level of the Crescent Moon / Sickle Moon line, make it a 3 hit (Sickle Moon + Spinning Slash animation would be cool, I'd name it Full Moon Slash ^^) and that "could" be the crit-hit WS people have been wanting. Scythe WS ... we have an HP return WS already, no need for another imo, BUT to equal out GS new WS I'd suggest Hell Scythe, 3 hit WS, and the animation would basically be 3 "Spinning Slash" in a row.. shouldn't be that hard, but those are just my dream WS that I'd make~ (tho honestly I don't see us getting any real WS to outshine Emp / Relic / Mythic). Our 2hr does seem a lil' underwhelming, but TBH 2hr aren't meant to be more than those things we use in the most dire of situations or as tactical tools, and ours is just that. I don't believe we should have Last Resort changed @ all, I heavily agreed in a prior post about an Impetus style JA that would fit DRK "Grim Fervor" I had originally thought it'd be an Att+ Def- w/ successful swings, but I see others views on survivability so id make it Att+ Def- on successful swings: occasionally convert dmg dealt into HP (% converted would increase on successful hits).. this would work on undead as well which has been a gripe for MANY DRK in the past, as they can Drain us, but we are 100% useless vs them AND I don't think it'd be TOO game breaking as there would probably be a % cap. This is all i really would suggest DRK to get, I don't see a great deal wrong w/ DRK atm other than it's not Abyssea Easy Mode friendly, but that solely depends on the DRK~ ~Fiory Janus Griever~

An idea that just came to me is Venom Spikes, something that inflicts a poison that gets stronger each time a monster hits us. 1 hit 1/tic 2 hits 2/tic 3 hits 4/tic 4 hits 8/tic etc, just have it double each time and wear off if the monster doesn't hit us for a given period of time, say a minute.

I don't think DRK needs a pure DD type of magic we need magic that can augment our melee dmg there is already a few good examples of this...

Drain II ---> Souleater WS (pre abyssea)
It added some extra dmg but also made the hp it used not important unfortnatly now Drain II and souleater sux
Endark giving 50 attack
and Absorb-Tp

DRK needs a complete overhaul at this point. I firmly believe SE doesn't know what they're doing with this job and are just tossing noodles at the wall, hoping something sticks. Between silly job traits like Tactical Parry(with our huge Parry skill), to getting 2 or 3 tp off of a spell that takes longer to cast than it takes to swing a scythe. Even our other job traits/abilities are like a poor man's dollar-store version of other jobs; Last Resort is like a neutered Berzerk, Diabolic Eye is a bad Aggressor clone, with the added bonus of costing merits and taking 15% of our HP away, etc. WTF is SE thinking?

The elemental spells we have serve no purpose, and the long casting times do more harm to us than good. It's pathetic. We have a higher skill rating in Elemental Magic than even RDM's, and they nuke circles around us. SE could up and remove all the elemental spells from the DRK spell list and I don't think anyone would miss them.

But, the biggest thing I see holding DRK back right now in the Abyssean Age, is that we bring nothing unique to the table. Anything DRK can do, some other job can do better. DRK can do good melee numbers, WAR does it better. DRK has a few debuffing spells, any other mage can do it better. Even Abyssea specific roles, other jobs do them better. WAR has more red procs. Mages have more yellow procs. BLU's at least have their own job-specific spell procs to offer. Maybe if Absorb spells became yellow procs?

Parties in Abyssea going after specific gear/atmas/etc don't want to settle for a dollar-store version of a jobthat can only proc a couple things, they only want the best job. My DRK only gets invites to xp parties just to fill up alliance space, my WAR gets invited to actually get stuff done. If DRK is ever going to shine again and be a worthwhile job, it needs something it can do that nobody else can. Given that the job was conceived as a hybrid of existing jobs, I don't see this happening.

Just give us a multi-hit, crit WS and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

Just give us a multi-hit, crit WS and call it a day.

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This would be nice but wouldn't solve any of the problems we, and even you, have listed.

Really, a great number of our problems can be fixed using 2 job abilities. Stances like Hasso and Seigan. One to fix all our Melee woes while nerfing magic, the other fixing all our magic woes while nerfing melee. Switch up when required.

After that, the rest is dependent on new Dark Magic spells. Curse, Plague, some sort of DD Dark Magic spell, new absorbs, ect. That will give us unique options that other jobs cant copy. Plague especially would be useful for NM fights. Samurai has it as a WS after effect, so why cant we have it as a Dark Magic spell? Curse would also be incredibly useful for faster kills and our own small form of Gravity for kiting if lowered HP and MP wouldn't work on NMs. However, pulling little monsters with Curse would make the fight go that much faster, letting us be more useful for exping.

Hell, even Zombie would be a good spell against enemies with Healing abilities to prevent them from healing themselves for a while. Perfect Dark Magic contender.

I don't see any other changes needed. Stances to fix what we currently have troubles with and new, unique spells to solidify our identity as Dark Knights and not Watered Down DD/Mage.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

This would be nice but wouldn't solve any of the problems we, and even you, have listed.

Really, a great number of our problems can be fixed using 2 job abilities. Stances like Hasso and Seigan. One to fix all our Melee woes while nerfing magic, the other fixing all our magic woes while nerfing melee. Switch up when required.

After that, the rest is dependent on new Dark Magic spells. Curse, Plague, some sort of DD Dark Magic spell, new absorbs, ect. That will give us unique options that other jobs cant copy. Plague especially would be useful for NM fights. Samurai has it as a WS after effect, so why cant we have it as a Dark Magic spell? Curse would also be incredibly useful for faster kills and our own small form of Gravity for kiting if lowered HP and MP wouldn't work on NMs. However, pulling little monsters with Curse would make the fight go that much faster, letting us be more useful for exping.

Hell, even Zombie would be a good spell against enemies with Healing abilities to prevent them from healing themselves for a while. Perfect Dark Magic contender.

I don't see any other changes needed. Stances to fix what we currently have troubles with and new, unique spells to solidify our identity as Dark Knights and not Watered Down DD/Mage.

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I agree, I know just giving us a crit ws wouldn't "fix" the job, but at this point we're fooling ourselves if we think SE is going to go all out and give us the big list of new spells dealing Dark damage or whatnot. It'd be great if they did, and I really hope I'm wrong, but let's face it; DRK is not a new job. This job has been around for years, and SE has done more to F' it up than help it. I mean, really, was Absorb TP that powerful that it needed a nerf? Hell no. That was almost insulting.

I really like the idea of stances, like Hasso and Seigan. The rules of this game show you can't just toss nukes during melee, it just doesn't work. So maybe a stance that allows for near instant-casting of nukes, but maybe hits us with 15% Slow or something, I dunno, something like the polar opposite of Hasso.

Well being a magical class malee should only be HALF of our optimal dmg i like stances or give us and elemental/dark magic spesific fastcast, or dosomething with occult omen with cast time or something but lets not over power blm and sch <they have it to > i personaly like cast while fighting.

Hello fellow drks,

I like all the ideas you all are posting. Hopefully SE likes them too and impliments some of them.

I agree with we need tier two absorb spells, or just make the current ones more potent, no decay in numbers and shorter recast times.

I would like to have a native Refresh too, .... tbh all jobs that have mp should have it lol.,
also ( now this is gonna sound like i smoked something lol) how about giving drks native haste , say a 5% delay on Scythe or GS,

and of course make Guillotine or whichever WS critical ... its only fair most other ws has at least one. :D

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Originally Posted by Karuyag

GDI... i just typed a really long post just to have it erased cuz the site logged me out automatically... (i knew i shoulda copy-pasted first)

Anyways... here's my 2 cents:

1. I know people want to increase Last Resort's duration... but instead of going with with a mock Berserk... why not just add better job abilities/traits...going by it's name... it should be a LAST resort... not FIRST resort... and maybe if they DO buff it... make it stronger that Berserk... it IS the LAST resort after all... maybe add abilities something along the lines of buffing WS damage/crit rate/crit damage/haste/fast cast/recast reduction or some other stat that affects direct damage...

2. HP/MP/TP... DRK is known to be the job that specializes in sacrificing themselves to damage their foes... Going with that theme... why not take that to the next level... instead of just having Souleater... how about abilities that consume TP or MP to increase their damage (kinda like MP Attack in FFIX)... or maybe an ability to use HP/TP to cast spells... or an ability that consumes MP or HP to use/buff weapon skill... Also someone brought up the idea of having a trait that increases damage as HP goes down... Since most JA's tend to have a trade-off... DRK's trade off is health consumption... or maybe have some overpowered ability's side-effect to be a short weakened state...

3. After using up yourself and dealing all that damage...time for recovery... Since DRK also specializes in draining/absorbing as well... take that to the next level too... first of all... CHANGE THE 2 HOUR ABILITY!!!... DRG had its 2hr changed... why not DRK?... Blood weapon is powerful yes... but why not make the recast more readily available?... it'll be one the DRK's major arsenal as recovery from just ravaging that poor bluffalo with its HP consuming abilities... that being said... maybe the new 2hr should be something that makes your abilities (going from suggestion #2) not consume HP and be in the low-HP-high damage state without having HP be in that level... maybe also add more ways to drain/restore HP... not just with spells... or maybe some ability to restore HP with TP (kinda like Chivalry for HP... not so much a Curing Waltz)... also maybe have some ability that uses HP to recover MP (kind of like a self-use devotion not so much convert)... also... maybe also reduce enmity generation of these abilities... or maybe some ability that consumes HP/MP to reduce enmity... i just think its funny that other jobs get some defensive abilities... and DRK gets.. what... arcane circle?

4. Spells/Abilities... on top of the abilities suggested above... I agree with everyone about adding more absorb-stat spells and having no decay... What I don't agree with is being able to attack while casting... maybe... just reduce the casting times instead... 1 second or less... maybe along the lines of the length of a JA animation... i also agree about dark-type nukes maybe make them have some added effect as well (plague, virus, amnesia, def-down to arcana or some other non-elementally attached enfeeble) (always thought that Doomed-family ability "Abyss Blast" would be a good example for the dark spell)... dread spikes and endark are good ideas... maybe improve their effects a little... also maybe an ability that turns your weapon damage into dark elemental damage (ala formless strikes)...

5. Weapon skills... my idea would be some kind of AoE drain WS (kinda like blood drain... maybe magic damage based) instead/on top of the PAINFULLY DREADFUL infernal scythe... i mean... with all gear available to drk... it's still not gonna match other WS's in damage... might as well make it useful... Also, i agree with improving modifiers to WS... and maybe increase them at the 100 TP level... as far as a crit based WS... WS's shouldnt be a DRK's main source of high damage... HP-consuming abilities that improve every swing should be the focus IMO... strong enough that it the damage from every swing + WS damage would add up and be comparable to spike-damaged-RR-buffed-crit WS... example: maybe DRK can do 700-1k damage on a buffed critical hit :X... and maybe in brew mode... every DRK swing does 2k damage :X... i mean our main weapons isnt about fast hits... its about strong slow hits...

Gah... my mind is spent... im really pissed that the stuff i typed earlier got erased... now my train of thought is gone... and i might have missed some of the ideas i typed earlier... but hopefully these suggestions would pique ideas... im sure some would disagree.. but hey... this is my opinion...

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I'd like to remind you that Last Resort's potency can exceed Berserk's starting with your first merit point upgrade into "Last Resort Effect." Thus, a longer duration's just fine.

Regarding your ideas on the Two-Hour Ability, how about we make this the new Two-Hour Ability, then give us Blood Weapon at level 30 or something, since it's really only good with Souleater?

Fell Weapon
Dark Knight's Main Two-Hour Ability
Duration: 1 minute
Critical hit rate doubles, all changes to HP are nullified while in effect (meaning you can't be healed, but you also can't be hurt, nor do you take damage over time from effects like Poison or Dia), your current level of Haste is doubled, ignoring the current Haste caps (i.e., you had 26% Haste in equipment, this would double to 52% Haste), and your attacks never miss. When this effect wears off, you instantly drop to 1 HP.

I think, regarding magic, we do need a second tier of Absorb spells. They should be at least twice as potent as our current ones, and without any decaying effect. Dread Spikes needs a major buff, too. Regarding weapon skills... Well, just giving the scythe and great sword a new weapon skill that can land critical hits would be just fine, especially if we earned it at a weapon skill level, rather than having to do a quest.

[QUOTE=Cruentus;69320]I'd like to remind you that Last Resort's potency can exceed Berserk's starting with your first merit point upgrade into "Last Resort Effect." Thus, a longer duration's just fine.

check wiki... LR's default is about 15%... merits add a total of 10% meaning it's pretty much equal to Berserk in effect ONLY after merits...

I'm not particularly dedicated to the development of DRK, but just in case, I thought I would post a link, to another useful thread on this very forum right here, in this very thread. It seemed the best choice.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...d-the-Dev-Team

おねがいします～＾＾

You guys do know that from a Melee damage standpoint DRK is one of the top DD in and outside of abyssea?

the only difference in damage between us and a war is WAR has better weaponskills (not empy) and they ONLY win inside abyssea with RR taking affect..

we dont need fukin berserk to cap PDIF.. and giving us super last resort would make us so overpowered....

If you want to keep up in abyssea on DRK you need to get one of the empy weaponskills.. just like to be a good WAR you need Ukko's and a good sam has Fudo.......... the WoE version even..

Stop askign for some crit weaponskill to be handed to you and go work and get a good weaponskill yourself..

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Originally Posted by Jar

You guys do know that from a Melee damage standpoint DRK is one of the top DD in and outside of abyssea?

the only difference in damage between us and a war is WAR has better weaponskills (not empy) and they ONLY win inside abyssea with RR taking affect..

we dont need fukin berserk to cap PDIF.. and giving us super last resort would make us so overpowered....

If you want to keep up in abyssea on DRK you need to get one of the empy weaponskills.. just like to be a good WAR you need Ukko's and a good sam has Fudo.......... the WoE version even..

Stop askign for some crit weaponskill to be handed to you and go work and get a good weaponskill yourself..

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a test that was made here says otherwise about DRK being ahead in melee damage. There's no way to put it, we need a buff badly.

Drk needs an empy weapon to stay equal with generic wars and mnks. The melee spreadsheet on another forum put drk 40% behind war in damage, both using empy weapons for comparison. You are fooling yourself if you think drk is anywhere equal. I hope enough info is being put out on forums. One of the longest job threads on the Japanese side is "do something about drk its obsolete, or similar to that.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

a test that was made here says otherwise about DRK being ahead in melee damage. There's no way to put it, we need a buff badly.

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ill go with my Hundreds of parses over whatever they tested this with......................

Lmao....

Rich.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Lmao....

Rich.

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When you put ANYTHING that isnt just what your childish ass wants on here than you can laugh.. Also Ignore me agian

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

a test that was made here says otherwise about DRK being ahead in melee damage. There's no way to put it, we need a buff badly.

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Never seen that program before. I'll have to mess with it a bit.

Your own signature springs to mind, Jar. Do you have/have you already posted your own evidence to support your argument? Seeing as DRK was my first 75 (back in the day), I have to agree with everyone else who says DRK is in need of some adjustment love. We haven't received anything worth while, anything that's made a drastic improvement to the job since the 2h update, and even that back seated us to a lot of other 2h jobs.

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Originally Posted by Sedres

Your own signature springs to mind, Jar. Do you have/have you already posted your own evidence to support your argument? Seeing as DRK was my first 75 (back in the day), I have to agree with everyone else who says DRK is in need of some adjustment love. We haven't received anything worth while, anything that's made a drastic improvement to the job since the 2h update, and even that back seated us to a lot of other 2h jobs.

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Do you even have any other 2handed jobs leveled? anything that doesnt have a crit weaponskill is behind but asking for one is like asking for an empy weaponskill to be handed to us.

I have hours of parses on WAR SAM and DRK with very small gear differences that say DRK and SAM are about equal in all aspects(DRK alot more melee damage while sam tips to weaponskill damage) while war has about the same melee damage but way stronger weaponskills(ONLY inside abyssea).

I didnt use empy weaponskills or anything to test but from what i see DRK is not THAT far behind WAR and the only shortcoming atm is the crit weaponskill.

from this it seems obvius that DRK would need a crit weaponskill to DD like a WAR can but i dont think that should just be handed to us maybe making insurgency crit but im not even sure that wouldn't be above our current empy weaponskils inside abyssea.

Hmm from a melee standpoint i would of thought NIN and DNC then MNK would be up better than DRK

With NIN and DNC there can have a much larger overall delay reduction with both dual weild and haste i think DNC and NIN can excess 50% delay reduction overall meaning they attack at over double speed (without buffs).

With MNK I'd guess it was the top melee pple saw this coming with there larger dmg weapons with there base dmg also being increased by skill and also the cobination of martial arts and haste just making it crazy.

With WAR DRK and SAM i dunno really i mean DRK should beat SAM because of the higher DPS weapons and a much better af3+2 set bonus as for WAR vs DRK i dunno i would of guessed it would of been close since the jobs are both very similar WAR getting more double attack DRK getting Souleater and last resort haste ofc i see WARs drop off the melee vs DRK because alot of time they sub NIN and so they spend alot of time casting shadows.

Either way i'm not gonna call it but i would of thought NIN was the top melee cause of the higher amount of delay reduction it can hit solo if not then MNK.

Though it is worth noting that twilight scythe makes us the best melee DD on alot of mobs becuase of it's dmg type.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Hmm from a melee standpoint i would of thought NIN and DNC then MNK would be up better than DRK

With NIN and DNC there can have a much larger overall delay reduction with both dual weild and haste i think DNC and NIN can excess 50% delay reduction overall meaning they attack at over double speed (without buffs).

With MNK I'd guess it was the top melee pple saw this coming with there larger dmg weapons with there base dmg also being increased by skill and also the cobination of martial arts and haste just making it crazy.

With WAR DRK and SAM i dunno really i mean DRK should beat SAM because of the higher DPS weapons and a much better af3+2 set bonus as for WAR vs DRK i dunno i would of guessed it would of been close since the jobs are both very similar WAR getting more double attack DRK getting Souleater and last resort haste ofc i see WARs drop off the melee vs DRK because alot of time they sub NIN and so they spend alot of time casting shadows.

Either way i'm not gonna call it but i would of thought NIN was the top melee cause of the higher amount of delay reduction it can hit solo.

Though it is worth noting that twilight scythe makes us the best melee DD on alot of mobs becuase of it's dmg type.

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I dont have nin or MNK to test but my nin friend most the time is a little above my DRK in melee but far below in weaponskill because a 2hander for the most part gets TP a lot faster.

A good WAR, outside of abyssea will parse 10% higher than a good DRK. Retaliation alone is Broken.

Even at 75 a good WAR would wipe the floor with an Apoc DRK, and that says something x:

Edit:

I don't think DRK is bad outside abyssea at all, Caladbolg DRK is very strong outside of abyssea.

I always took pride at 75 being able to outparse 'better' jobs on DRK :x

I miss merit pts parsing was fun :(

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Though it is worth noting that twilight scythe makes us the best melee DD on alot of mobs becuase of it's dmg type.

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That's only if Formless Strikes are even needed. Otherwise, just use Woeborn, Apoc or Redemption. The "Death" novelty wears off the moment you realize Endark cancels it out, leaving you with a scythe that's more situational than it is for full-time. Besides, Woeborn is 10x easier to get.

But when going against something strong against physical strikes, break out Twilight by all means.

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Originally Posted by Jar

ill go with my Hundreds of parses over whatever they tested this with......................

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Since when did parses EVER mean anything outside of Merit Parties?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gradd

A good WAR, outside of abyssea will parse 10% higher than a good DRK. Retaliation alone is Broken.

Even at 75 a good WAR would wipe the floor with an Apoc DRK, and that says something x:

Edit:

I don't think DRK is bad outside abyssea at all, Caladbolg DRK is very strong outside of abyssea.

I always took pride at 75 being able to outparse 'better' jobs on DRK :x

I miss merit pts parsing was fun :(

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Why would the War have hate to get retaliation to even work.. <_<

wish there was a good war on my server.. i havn't lost a parse in months.. QQ

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Originally Posted by Kagato

That's only if Formless Strikes are even needed. Otherwise, just use Woeborn, Apoc or Redemption. The "Death" novelty wears off the moment you realize Endark cancels it out, leaving you with a scythe that's more situational than it is for full-time. Besides, Woeborn is 10x easier to get.

But when going against something strong against physical strikes, break out Twilight by all means.

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Go read what twilight actually does on wiki you'll notice that about 90% of the time twilight > Woeborn

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Originally Posted by Jar

Go read what twilight actually does on wiki you'll notice that about 90% of the time twilight > Woeborn

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You got the ">" backwards. Change it to < and you'll be correct, otherwise you're an idiot.

Woeborn has a stronger base damage, higher base delay making a 5-hit even easier, enhances Endark to deal even MORE damage, adds +7 Dark Magic Skill and +6 Strength.

Twilight Scythe has a kind of Formless Strikes and a Death effect that is canceled out by Endark, making it even weaker, and Death cant even work on NMs. The only reason to ever use this scythe for any reason is to use against mobs where the hidden effect will actually mean something, which is very situational.

So, what was that about Twilight being better again?

Unless you're talking about PvP Twlight scythe is far from being better than the Woeborn in PvE situations.


I know that you aren't talking about PvP because well, you're all you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kagato

You got the ">" backwards. Change it to < and you'll be correct, otherwise you're an idiot.

Woeborn has a stronger base damage, higher base delay making a 5-hit even easier, enhances Endark to deal even MORE damage, adds +7 Dark Magic Skill and +6 Strength.

Twilight Scythe has a kind of Formless Strikes and a Death effect that is canceled out by Endark, making it even weaker, and Death cant even work on NMs. The only reason to ever use this scythe for any reason is to use against mobs where the hidden effect will actually mean something, which is very situational.

So, what was that about Twilight being better again?

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Hidden Effect: Deals damage that sets Damage Types modifiers to 1 on enemies. Bypasses "Physical Immunity" and "Physical Shield" effects. Will also Bypass some but not all "Physical absorb" effects.

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^reason the base damage doesn't matter.^

also if you didnt notice endark is resisted by almost everything. I only keep it up for the ATTACK and 5.. attack < having the damage type mod changed

Edit and i just checked and twilight has a better DPS and will win when both are 5hit because of its lower delay.

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Originally Posted by Jar

^reason the base damage doesn't matter.^

also if you didnt notice endark is resisted by almost everything. I only keep it up for the ATTACK and 5.. attack < having the damage type mod changed

Edit and i just checked and twilight has a better DPS and will win when both are 5hit because of its lower delay.

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Base damage matters because during weapon skills the scythe does physical damage, not magical.

-What about mobs that are resistant to magical damage? There are very many bosses and VIP mobs that can mitigate magical damage just as mobs with high defense or -pdt can mitigate the damage from a non twilight scythe.


-The scythe has higher base damage, and bolsters endark giving you MORE ATTTACK, which is why you USE ENDARK. Not to mention having the side effect of bolstering the minimal utility we have in making all our dark magic more accurate drains/stuns.'

-You are giving up a+70~ attack with woeborn on as a self buff, for a very very very low and random % proc, even on trash mobs, in a PVE SITUATION.

Which helps boost WS damage greatly, and helps cap your melee damage on monsters where otherwise it would be the fevered dream of a madman.

Are you sure this isn't a Ballista discussion because thats the only way I could see somebody championing Twilight scythe over a weapon with higher base damage that buffs endark.

The death effect doesn't proc on anything worth a shit, only on weak mobs its a gimmick weapon, plain and simple.

I bet you're one of those DRK's with Twilight scythe and some perle pieces, who just want to believe that Twilight is the end all. You're a damn fool.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

I bet you're one of those DRK's with Twilight scythe and some perle pieces, who just want to believe that Twilight is the end all. You're a damn fool.

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If you wanna make personal attacks on gear you should police your own first, lose the Mythril Grip +1.

Jars DRK isnt the best but he isnt a perle DRK I can say that much he has +2 body, and the rest of his +1, I am sure it wont be long till he is rocking the rest of his +2.