Reforged AF - Blocked on Step 1?

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Originally Posted by Anjou

After reading it carefully I would have to agree with you on this, I mean it would make sense that since the Relics didn't require CoP to upgrade to +2, why do people have to have it to upgrade their original artifact armor? I can understand maybe if the artifact was at +1, but then again the base artifact shouldn't have required it. Yeah CoP is a ton easier than it was in the past, but there's a lot of running involved in this expansion just to be able to access one feature that isn't canonically tied to the expansion itself, it's just offered through the same NPC which could have been handled better.




Really Karah, why do you act like this? Did mom and dad not love you enough or something?

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Though to really finish relic +2 you had to go into dyna and gain exp which you had to be past the shadow lord fight to even go in. If you were a mnk or drg you had to augment some of it. So there was a mission requirement on it as well.

Well to get the relic armor you had to have access to dynamis, then farm in dynamis to get the Forgotten items.

To get the items yes I say that requirement is legitimate, because you can't upgrade something you don't have, whereas with CoP you didn't need the expansion to obtain the artifact armor (Unless you were DRG, SAM, NIN, etc)

AF upgrading of any kind has always been tied to CoP ever since they came out with limbus the reason why +1ing relic does not is because of where relic comes from which is dynamics which is part of zilart. It would be silly to expect people to need something that doesn't come from there. There are new people who seriously don't care about story and just the end of the line and so don't even do any old content at all unless it helps get them to the end quicker. There are also a lot of people who dont even go and get their jobs af because why should you when you can just skip it? Specially when they're the player who doesn't want to take time to actually skill up while they level instead of at the end again. These people who just want to go from 30-99 via burned just want the best stuff with the least work. Some might say they are now being punished because holy crap I now have to go back and actually do something I now only care about because I want my stuuff. Damn you SE for making me go and do something I probably should have done before now so I wouldn't be in this situation in the 1st place.

Oh and the OP states after a reply that he is a RETURNING player who had done some pre cap lifting of CoP and not a completely new person. It was someone else further down that said they were new and had just gotten to 99 ten days from that post. In which the crying started about being made to go and do old content because he needed this shiney right now and couldn't be happy with easier things to get that would have allowed them to enjoy current content.

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Originally Posted by Anjou

Well to get the relic armor you had to have access to dynamis, then farm in dynamis to get the Forgotten items.

To get the items yes I say that requirement is legitimate, because you can't upgrade something you don't have, whereas with CoP you didn't need the expansion to obtain the artifact armor (Unless you were DRG, SAM, NIN, etc)

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Drg nin and sam were not CoP jobs no jobs came with CoP. Those jobs were zilart along with smn.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Anyone who can't beat CoP the first week

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Its not about being unable to, its about not needing to, it's a pointless time sink and not everyone has the time to go waste away doing these quests for a few days just so they can get some armor they already have everything for, but just can not turn in, it's nothing to do with difficulty or anything of the sort. Besides that, if you think kicking off players and stopping new players would do anything but harm the game, your lack of sense is astounding.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

It's funny that when they come up with an idea that is useful in end game people still cry.

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It was poorly done. The best way they can incentivise you to do those expansions which lead to events such as Sky, Limbus, or Salvage, is to simply redo the events as they did at 99, I have no doubt in my mind that making those events relevant again helped to motivate some people to get out there and unlock those pieces of content so that they could participate. Making a point of progression required in order to do something almost completely unrelated to it is not incentivisation but rather just putting a roadblock in people's path in order to make them do something they may not have otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

AF upgrading of any kind has always been tied to CoP ever since they came out with limbus the reason why +1ing relic does not is because of where relic comes from which is dynamics which is part of zilart. It would be silly to expect people to need something that doesn't come from there.

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Relic Armor originates in Dynamis, it is +1'd via the same NPC as AF which requires Sea/Limbus access, as you said, silly, and then they require more stuff from Dynamis for +2, +1 may be skipped, CoP need not be touched. AF for any job in the game has no relation to CoP, in fact, its the only expansion which failed to produce a new job, and thus, had no AF, it did however have the upgrade to +1, now while no AF originates in CoP, just like Relic did not, AF is tied to a restriction of Sea/Limbus access for both +1 and +2 upgrades, again just as you put it, it is silly.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Relic Armor originates in Dynamis, it is +1'd via the same NPC as AF which requires Sea/Limbus access, as you said, silly, and then they require more stuff from Dynamis for +2, +1 may be skipped, CoP need not be touched. AF for any job in the game has no relation to CoP, in fact, its the only expansion which failed to produce a new job, and thus, had no AF, it did however have the upgrade to +1, now while no AF originates in CoP, just like Relic did not, AF is tied to a restriction of Sea/Limbus access for both +1 and +2 upgrades, again just as you put it, it is silly.

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Yes but I'm sure SE wanted something else than the two sets of gear you could get from beating omega and ultima. So that people who didn't get something from those fights had something else to look forward to get while they waited till it was their turn to lot on an item if the rng was being nice that day. Please tell me what other gear would you think of to go with other than AF to be used or rewarded with. If one took away the upgrading of AF and the items that were needed to do so besides the abcs there would be no reason for some people to go to limbus runs if you were only needing to get some temp key items to fight the boss you wanted an item from. People would loose interest and quit shells once they had their stuff and limbus might have died an even quicker death.

I meant it would be silly for relic upgrade to need CoP. Sure they could have made it use a different npc but they didn't so whining about that part now is moot. They chose to tie AF upgrades to limbus and thus sea access and thus having to do CoP so that there would be something else to do limbus for. The neo limbus things are now lol with the fact they probably don't out do an ilv 115 piece along with the salvage so yeah bad SE for doing what they have done with all other older content once abyssea came out and the cap was now stupid high and a lot of the older gear became worthless. So now that they are trying to make an old set of gear be wanted in the current content they are in a way trying to not only learn from the past but try n fix it. Not my fault there are so many lazy people playing the game these days who just want to rush to the top and not stop once in a while and take in the view.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Relic Armor originates in Dynamis, it is +1'd via the same NPC as AF which requires Sea/Limbus access, as you said, silly, and then they require more stuff from Dynamis for +2, +1 may be skipped, CoP need not be touched. AF for any job in the game has no relation to CoP, in fact, its the only expansion which failed to produce a new job, and thus, had no AF, it did however have the upgrade to +1, now while no AF originates in CoP, just like Relic did not, AF is tied to a restriction of Sea/Limbus access for both +1 and +2 upgrades, again just as you put it, it is silly.

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In order to complete relic gear, you need to gain experience in Dynamis. Therefore, these pieces are tied to Dynamis progress and, in turn, nation mission progress. It's not CoP but it's still mission progress. You can argue that you can upgrade to +2 without setting foot in dynamis, but this requires Bonanza or Login and therefore doesn't count.

Justin, I don't even need to read your reply after the first sentence, to even pretend that the reward from CoP isn't worth the effort to finish it, shows you have no right to even be playing whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Time. Consuming. None of this is a challenge. I am not "earning" anything. I am running from place to place doing fetch quests. Like I said, I wanted to see the story, and I planned to do it at some point, but I am required to do it now for gear irrelevant to the level of the content. The story is fantastic, but it comes in bits and pieces between the monotony.

The greater majority of my game time has now been running from point A from point B to talk to NPC or beat up too weak to be worth while...

It's like a gigantic list labeled "Before you can start playing and enjoying the game, first complete this gigantic checklist of fetchquests:"

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Yeah, it really sucks. It is just 100 per cent NOT fun to have to spend an evening running between NPCs when you wanted to play a video game. Old missions should not lock new content.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Why do people keep saying this? Do you honestly think that doing CoP is difficult in any way? It's not. There is no "reward" in completing this, there is no sense of achievement, there is no accomplishment. It's a gigantic series of fetch quests, and it's a gigantic waste of time. The story is great, but like I said, experiencing it in game just makes it take forever.

Nobody says I want everything for free. I already earned my AF items to trade in, but I can't. I WANT to do AA fights, but again, I can't, because I haven't finished Zilart. I want to do a LOT of things, but I can't because I have not finished all of these stupid fetch quests. I can't even get a party because I don't have Alexander.

Stop acting like completing CoP is actually something that is difficult and is something I need to complete to "earn" things. It's not. I shouldn't have to do this.

And yes, obviously I am completing it, because I don't have a choice.

What the heck is wrong with this community? It's people like you that stop new people from playing this game.

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Yeah. It's insane. People want you to do 10 years of content to play with people today. That's just not sane. You're not asking for a Raja ring - you're asking to be able to claim the rewards of the MODERN content you completed. If you wanted a Raja ring without completing COP people would have a point, but declaring someone is lazy because they don't want to do quests that were 100% outdated 5 years ago in order to participate in modern content? That's nuts.

If you talk to the AF+2 upgrade NPC she doesn't know who you are or why she should care what you want. Just as if you walked up to me on the street, handed me your soiled panties, 10 random pieces of paper and an animal skin and told me to make you pants, I would also not give a damn. She is a member of a criminal enterprise looking for illegal goods and doesn't just talk to anyone she meets.

If, however, you talk to Sagheera, she tells you the criminal organization is looking for people to supply them with illegal materials found only in Sea. If you prove your worth to her by bringing her those materials from Sea, she finds you to be a dependable source of illegal merchandise. When her friend also needs illegal merchandise, and doesn't know where to get them, and you have illegal merchandise, and have no idea what to do with them, she refers the two of you to each other.

If you haven't helped Sagheera, you're some crazy person running through the street with soiled undies, some scraps of paper, and no clue what to do with them. It is a fucking quest line, just like every other quest line, in every other game, ever! The NPC's tell you this shit directly! How is this connection alluding you?

The only way you wouldn't understand this is if you don't read anything the characters say. And we already know you don't want to play the game, cause your against doing the content. We know you don't want to see the story, cause you can just read the script online. Why are you even playing the damn game if you do not want to do any part of the game?

You want to rush straight to the ark angel v2 fights so you can... fight the ark angels some more? Cause that's all that's left after you have AF+2, getting AF+3 and the slightly better stuff the AA's drop. Delve's been dead ever since skirmish/AF+2 came out, since it's all crap in comparison. Maybe do some skirmish if you need hagondes gear. Maybe work on a Relic or a mythic, wait, that requires you to do all that old useless content your refuse to do. Then the game's over, there's nothing left to do, why even play?

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Originally Posted by Louispv

Just as if you walked up to me on the street, handed me your soiled panties, 10 random pieces of paper and an animal skin and told me to make you pants, I would also not give a damn.

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But if your friend told you that I was looking for someone to make my pants, all of a sudden, you would care, and you would make my pants? Doubtful.

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If, however, you talk to Sagheera, she tells you the criminal organization is looking for people to supply them with illegal materials found only in Sea. If you prove your worth to her by bringing her those materials from Sea, she finds you to be a dependable source of illegal merchandise. When her friend also needs illegal merchandise, and doesn't know where to get them, and you have illegal merchandise, and have no idea what to do with them, she refers the two of you to each other.

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So basically her friend has 0 ability to take any sort of initiative by saying 'Oh look, this random guy running up to me has exactly what I am looking for and could use, I should talk to them' and instead says 'Oh, look, that random guy running at me has exactly what I need but I have never heard of him before, since Sagheera doesn't know him I guess its impossible for me to talk to him.'? That makes a lot of sense I guess.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

But if your friend told you that I was looking for someone to make my pants, all of a sudden, you would care, and you would make my pants? Doubtful.

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And if you read what the NPC says, she's having the guys back at Tenshodo HQ make you the pants as payment for completing the job of getting her the pages. That is explicitly the reason why you have to wait a game day. She doesn't give a shit about the pants. When her friend comes up to her and says, "We already know this guy isn't an undercover cop trying to set up a sting operation cause he's done a bunch of jobs for us in the past." then yes, only then will she make the deal.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

So basically her friend has 0 ability to take any sort of initiative by saying 'Oh look, this random guy running up to me has exactly what I am looking for and could use, I should talk to them' and instead says 'Oh, look, that random guy running at me has exactly what I need but I have never heard of him before, since Sagheera doesn't know him I guess its impossible for me to talk to him.'? That makes a lot of sense I guess.

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And why would you be showing her the pages? How would she know you have the pages? Have you been shoving these illegal documents into the face of every single person in the entire city and just been working your way through the phone book, 1 by 1, until someone trades them for something? You would literally be the craziest hobo ever.

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Originally Posted by Louispv

And if you read what the NPC says, she's having the guys back at Tenshodo HQ make you the pants as payment for completing the job of getting her the pages. That is explicitly the reason why you have to wait a game day. She doesn't give a shit about the pants. When her friend comes up to her and says, "We already know this guy isn't an undercover cop trying to set up a sting operation cause he's done a bunch of jobs for us in the past." then yes, only then will she make the deal.

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Yes, I know she's having someone else make them, you're ignoring the point I am making, its not a matter of who makes them, its a matter of her being unable to do anything on her own until her friend tells her its ok. Which seems to mean that she has no ability to make a choice on her part seeing as she only can determine if a person is legit by asking the person next to her, which seems to know you're trustworthy out of nowhere.

But, overall I will admit in the case of Sagheera herself, I do not know what she says when you first talk to her, because originally I only talked to her for Soap so I could get my Brutal and at the time had 0 care for any story behind it.

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And why would you be showing her the pages?

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I would be showing her the pages because my friends told me that she deals in this illegal trade, just like how her friend would tell her that I am looking for someone to do what I need. Unless you're telling me they are allowed to talk to one another but in the story we are forbidden to do the same, in which case, I see your point.

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How would she know you have the pages?

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I walked right up to her and tried to hand them to her, thats how.

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Have you been shoving these illegal documents into the face of every single person in the entire city and just been working your way through the phone book, 1 by 1, until someone trades them for something? You would literally be the craziest hobo ever.

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As I said above, my friends told me who to talk to, thus, I spoke to her, literally that simple to get around that logic.

Cause it cast light on to FFXI as a simple gear grinder that does a really bad job at it(when they try to outdate gear people get up in arms and trying a hybrid of keeping relics and reworking older models it feels lazy). Least with the story lines it is a cut above other gear grinders and out of the other MMOs the story is pretty good with CS that still hold up well even with the outdated graphics.

People keep talking about how irrelevant or ancient these quests are (out-dated old content), giving out dated rewards... which baffles me.
If you have never done these quests before, they're NEW to YOU. They are also logically tied to the progression of the upgrade path you must take to keep the rewards relevant.

The Logical Path: (Follow with me here for a moment)

Obtain original AF.

IMPORTANT: Obtain Sea Access by (spoiler)

defeating Tenzen on the airship, who is from the far east, and is at war with the near east, where this NPC is from, so this defeat would mean something to her, as regards to your fame...

and become qualified (or shall I say: have enough CoP mission progress, that functions like nation fame in many respects) to interact with the NPC who can BEGIN the AF upgrade process, who explains:
"I came from the Near East to peddle my wares. I heard that there are simply hordes of gullib--err, that is, I have heard of the great adventurers that roam this land, and wish to be of service to them. If you happen to know of any seasoned adventurers, I ask that you bring them to me. Be sure to tell them of my fabulous good!
Wait a moment...
You are an adventurer, are you not? I hear your sort does all kinds of things--fighting with monsters, cooking, and collecting all sorts of little knickknacks...
Oh, I am truly sorry if I have offended you. I am from a land far to the east of here, and tales of adventurers are quite popular in my hometown.
Anyway, you adventurers are quite the rowdy lot, always playing outside and showing up looking as if you had wallowed in mud, correct?
Are you really so dirty?
Oh my, such confidence.
Could it be because you possess that remarkable armor I have heard about in rumors...artifact armor, I believe it is called?
I am not finished, so wait! Undoubtedly your artifact armor was once something to take pride in, but at present it is surely quite battered from your adventuring, not to mention that it has simply become old and could use a boost...correct?
If I were you, my dear friend, I would take your precious artifact armor and restore it! Rejuvenate it! Give it new life! Does that not sound like the proper course of action?
I know exactly what you need. You absolutely must bring the necessary ingredients, and I will send them with your artifact armor to the craftsmen of the Near East for a miniscule fee in ancient beastcoins!
There, I have contracts with the most skilled artisans, who will make your artifact armor shine like never before."

Go to Limbus to gather materials and ancient beastcoins to upgrade it to +1 versions. (The only option that existed for years.)

Gather more stuff to make AF+1 into the new and improved "Reforged" versions.
OR Take SE's generous short-cut to use different (easier to gather) materials to transform AF OR AF+1 into Reforged gear.

Gather more stuff from new battles to make RF into Reforged +1 versions.

...

This gear is following an upgrade path that requires mission progress to begin.
It's that simple. They're all connected as one string of gear...

It's like taking a relic weapon from Dynamis and upgrading it. Dynamis is "outdated content", but the rewards (can be) relevant today, ...
(Imagine this: the only versions of relic/empy/mythic that are worthwhile today are the 119's... why should we have to get the originals to 99 first? We'll just skip over all that crazy ancient currency, alexandrite, HMP's with a new "short-cut" item from SE that lets us take the base drop versions and just do the final quests... but we don't think we need the quest/mission progress needed to begin the upgrade processes in each case?)

... if the entire AF quest plus upgrade path was introduced in the same content update patch... it would ALL be considered relevant content. Being "Old" doesn't make any difference... it just means a lot of the players in the game have already done it by now.

Saying "Since I can skip the gathering of materials part of one step of the upgrade path I shouldn't need to be qualified to activate the quest in the first place!" is unreasonable, IMO.

I hope that makes the reasoning more clear.


Besides all that, from what I can tell, none of this is stopping someone from playing with people in today's new content (Ark Angels 2 and Divine Might 2) (unless people are going to complain about needing sky access to enter battlefields in sky...yeah... no argument is going to work there)

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Originally Posted by AyinDygra

Amazing post!

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That sir, was a perfect post. You said, in intricate detail, everything I'm far to impatient to bother explaining, and I applaud you.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Why Sagheera can tell we are trustworthy yet the other can't, explain that, and perhaps it will make a bit more sense.

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Even Monisette is smart enough to know you aren't worth talking to.

Because every npc in the game doesn't know you even if you have done previous expansions with them. I'm talking to you Zied and Aldo. Heck some npcs won't even want to talk to you unless you have met their fame requirements. So no matter how many times you save the world most npcs will act like they don't know that you're famous. Heck even the great Shantotto doesn't know you when doing blm quest line even if you did her quests for warp II or beaten anything else with her in it before taking on these quests.

What you all are missing is that when you roadblock modern content with ancient content that is mostly running around for hours spamming cutscenes you make it harder to keep new players. Most people don't play MMOs to solo cut scenes alone - they want to play with others.

All this chattering about game logic is meaningless. Game logic doesn't matter. If people had been allowed to make reforged AF without sea NO ONE would have said "oh that doesn't make sense" - who cares? I don't care - I just want to have stuff to do with my friends.

Again, I only play a few hours a week - if I feel like I need to spend those hours running between NPCs - well I'll probably unsub.

Again no one is forcing you to go and get the reforged done at all let alone asap. There is enough gear out there that you can oh my gosh get with other people in a quick order. Is it all ilv 119? probably not. is it best in slot? Maybe pending on what you are looking for. Also it we all know you can get away with not wearing the extremely best if you can still hit your caps for whatever you are looking to cap.

it is in no way a road block. It would be a road block if the fights were still all level capped and you still needed a full party as it has been said over and over you can burn though fast solo with little effort set the 500 damage RoE and you can get a little extra out of it as you go.

You also have to have some mission completion, and a lot of other stuff to get level 119 Relic/Mythic/Empyrean weapons. Why should the armor just be given away when the equivalent weapons aren't? Can't build a relic without Dynamis, which requires Rank 6, and then you have to do a bunch of other things or have a lot of gil to upgrade and hope people are farming them in events to sell them. Mythic requires questing and killing NMs. Empyrean requires EX items from NM kills. AF reforging is much less work and much easier requirements.

The armor from RoE is there for the giveaway stuff if you don't want to do the gated content, and is of relatively high level in comparison.

I don't mind doing the old content and destroying the bosses but being stuck almost a week on a mission cause you need 2 people for that stupid sealion key crap is just ridiculous. Even harder when friends have long gone, no linkshell and a population anywhere between 500-700 people that are not willing to help unless there's a ridiculous reward or just cant be bothered or just afk all day. Not to mention my available playtime is anywhere from 11pm pst to 3 am pst so no Na primetime for me. Partied with a lot of japan/european players since 04 cause of the available play time but the auto translate becomes monotonous when trying to explain or give orders of what to do.

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Originally Posted by cthullhu420

I don't mind doing the old content and destroying the bosses but being stuck almost a week on a mission cause you need 2 people for that stupid sealion key crap is just ridiculous. Even harder when friends have long gone, no linkshell and a population anywhere between 500-700 people that are not willing to help unless there's a ridiculous reward or just cant be bothered or just afk all day. Not to mention my available playtime is anywhere from 11pm pst to 3 am pst so no Na primetime for me. Partied with a lot of japan/european players since 04 cause of the available play time but the auto translate becomes monotonous when trying to explain or give orders of what to do.

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I am sorry but if you dont have 1 friend left to help you quickly on such a mission, I dont see the point on why you are playing an MMO in the first place Oo. I also dont see why you didnt build up some connections with EU players or Eu Linkshells if you play in their timezone (gratned EU players are fewer then NA or JP)

The other solution would be to have a mule

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I dont see the point on why you are playing an MMO in the first place Oo.

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Yeah, it makes no sense why SE would add trust NPCs. I mean, nobody plays alone. Nobody. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

You really have to have beaten CoP to reforge the AF gear?

Why is such a random requirement in place? "Go do this really old content, all of it, in order to prepare yourself for current content, even if you already have the items"

It's just so bogus for players like myself. I was so happy I managed to get the pages and stuff together for the reforged AF in preparation for when I hit 99, and again it looks like I'm nowhere close because I have to go back to do tons of old missions in order to be able to get current content gear.

It just never ends. SE makes it so stupidly difficult to start this game as a new player. There's SO many things you have to go back and do, even at a high level, just to be able to play the game.

I'm just sitting here, just thinking about all of what I'm gonna have to go through. It just makes me not even want to play... I've already done SO MUCH, and every time I think I'm ready to actually level to 99 and enjoy myself, there's something more, some other chore I have to go complete first.

Just... sigh...

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Randomly popped here then I see this Crevox guy complaining about "WHY THIS GAME TAKES FOREVER TO DO ANYTHING" again.

Maybe I'll ans the question this way: This is FFXI, a game that's different from a lot of instant gratification MMO on the market, and it's a game that's NOT for everyone.

Plenty of long time FFXI player, enjoyed FFXI because of the way it is: It's not instant gratification MMO, it doesn't hand you item and 1000 accomplishment after 2 weeks of playing, and it's not meant to be played for 3 months then quit for next MMO like other titles. It's meant to be a "2nd life" or "2nd home" where we log on and play the FFXI, just for the sake of play FFXI and live a life in it, instead of playing FFXI to beat it or to obtain best gears in very short time so we can quit and play next title.

It does have much slower pace than avg MMO that majority of current-gen players can't tolerate, that doesn't mean it's "bad". Majority of current-gen players probably can't tolerate EQ/SWG/UO and such, but it's not "bad", just different.

If you feel doing CoP BC or older content is a waste of time because you can watch youtube, then save yourself a sub fee, there's no point to even play this game if that's how you view it. It seems like you're playing this game like WoW, lv to cap, get best gear, beat shit, all happen in 3 months of playing. But that's not how FFXI works, and don't try to change to it WoW, SE already made FFXIV to satisfy FF fans wanting WoW clone MMO.

If you can only enjoy the game by having lv 99 job and best gears in every slot, quit now. You'll NEVER have best gears in every slot and so you'll never enjoy the game. I've been playing this game for 4+ years, daily. I've never have best gears in every slot once in my life, and I probably know 1~2 players per server that can have best gears in every slot for ONE job. You really need to change your mentality of playing this game, or else you simply won't enjoy it no matter what.

Edit: Watching CoP on youtube and skip it entirely, seriously?? Blasphemy! CoP used to be synonym of FFXI, now it's just a "watch youtube and skip it" missions.

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don't try to change to it WoW,

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Too late. Item levels, gear progression, time gated content galore.

Also, I played DAoC back in the day. I'm not new to "classic MMO" style where things take a long time to get.

Please stop following me and spamming posts at me. It's turning into harassment.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Too late. Item levels, gear progression, time gated content galore.

Also, I played DAoC back in the day. I'm not new to "classic MMO" style where things take a long time to get.

Please stop following me and spamming posts at me. It's turning into harassment.

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Last time I checked, FFXI server start hitting sub 1k during NA prime time right after ILV introduced, with fans starting riot on the forum, that's before ARR launch, so nothing to do with ARR. After that ILV haven't increase for nearly 1 year, and unlikely to increase after Feb update. Dev also introduce ILv for different reason, because they want to raise character lv above 99. They may have the intention to copy WoW at first but it didn't work too well so they changed plans ;D


Also if you don't want me to "harass" you(I don't even understand why presenting opposite opinion is harassment), stop making ridiculous opinion like "I can watch CoP on youtube, what a waste of time to do it". Technically that can apply to every single game on the market.

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that's before ARR launch, so nothing to do with ARR.

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I never said anything about ARR. We were talking about WoW.

Item level system was made by Blizzard.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

I never said anything about ARR. We were talking about WoW.

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I know ILV came from WOW. I mentioned ARR launch because it's 1 major reason why sub dropped, besides SoA direction hate.

I was talking about how sub dropped because majority of FFXI players didn't like ILV. ARR launch is 1 reason why active player number dropped after Aug, ILV is another. You can tell by looking at how active player number dropped after ILV even before ARR launch, and how it continue to drop all the way until Nov post ARR launch, only to recently recover when Dev start moving away from WoW gear progressions. It haven't decrease for about 2 months when dev start moving away from vertical progression in Nov. That's probably the main reason why we kept getting reforge AF 1 2 3, and no delve 2 nor 119+ gear yet. Dev is probably observing player's reaction toward current direction, and don't want to push ILV higher too soon because of previous failure.

You said "too late, FFXI already moving toward WoW direction", but number shows that moving toward WoW direction doesn't help with sub, it drops faster. When dev try to move away from it active player stays. If dev is smart they wouldn't want to move toward WoW direction further. There's nothing "too late" about.

I didn't even start talking about any of that...

...just... nevermind... go away

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Originally Posted by Damane

I am sorry but if you dont have 1 friend left to help you quickly on such a mission, I dont see the point on why you are playing an MMO in the first place Oo. I also dont see why you didnt build up some connections with EU players or Eu Linkshells if you play in their timezone (gratned EU players are fewer then NA or JP)

The other solution would be to have a mule

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I play cause love the game (I've played eq ,wow, ffxiv) and the amount of time I've put into this game. Made a lot of friends Na EU but they have long gone on to other things.(mind you they're internet friends and most didn't have a face to associate with their name so connections are lost over time).Mule please... I have never and will never support SE's shitty policy to have an alt character. They should have been free from the start on the same server as your main with a cap of 2 or pay to have it on a separate server. A mule wouldn't work cause you cant be logged into both at the same time to turn both keys. Dualboxing this game is not worth the 28$ a month for me.

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Originally Posted by cthullhu420

I play cause love the game (I've played eq ,wow, ffxiv) and the amount of time I've put into this game. Made a lot of friends Na EU but they have long gone on to other things.(mind you they're internet friends and most didn't have a face to associate with their name so connections are lost over time).Mule please... I have never and will never support SE's shitty policy to have an alt character. They should have been free from the start on the same server as your main with a cap of 2 or pay to have it on a separate server. A mule wouldn't work cause you cant be logged into both at the same time to turn both keys. Dualboxing this game is not worth the 28$ a month for me.

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Make more friends. People come and people go in MMO, just make more when old friends are gone.

I have tons of inactive players on my friendlist, but I also delete old one and add new names every once a while. That's the only way to get shit done without having a mule.

I must admit I didn't read all of the thread, in fact I could only read a little before I could feel a strong urge to comment here.

Parts of the FFXI community is like poison to new players, or people with different opinions/experience. This is quite evident in this thread.

A lot of you sound like grumpy old men, bitterly repeating the glorious old days where you've done some incredible hard work, now preaching the kids to "suck it up", "back in my days.. we shouted for parties all night long for just one mission, only to see it fail once more"

"They should've FORCED people to have the +1 gear already" - Why? Do you know this is just a game? I feel so much bitterness behind words like this, and in some of the people of this community.

This type of bitterness and other negative attitudes are unfortunately not so uncommon. So much that it put me off from playing several times in the past. Luckily though, there are also great people here. Kind, helpful, understanding, welcoming people - not boiling with anger inside, hating every fresh opinion and people in general, and solely living in Vana'diel.

The game is not hard. You can accomplish anything in XI if you simply play enough (if you have enough time). Some of us don't, but still enjoy the game nevertheless, and we should be allowed to. This also makes you no superior than anyone else in this game, including newbies. Although I'm aware a lot of people derive their sense of self-worth from their status in this game. The good news is that your worth isn't based on the state of your gear.

I don't post much on the forums but I wanted to state my *opinion* here, if only to give support for new players or people like me - to state that we exist here in XI community too.

Putting my flame shield on, but I suggest that you don't waste time flaming anyone. Your time is better spent elsewhere and you know that.

Franky they have removed so much of the grind already that leveling in ff11 is the fastest of all the MMOs out there and reforge gear is hardly the be all end all gear only slightly better then then other gear with a lower item level, even that depends on what slot and what action. One of the biggest complaints recently was people were running out of things to do so the devs made it this way so new and old(people that never bothered) players would have more to do. While a part of me feels they should have made +1 a requirement the rest of me is overjoyed they didn't, while the items to +1 were given away in the login campaign the coins were not. So the few limbus zones would have been a nightmare to get into and prices would have been far to much. We were going to get a road block one way or the other either it was going to be more item grinding for everyone or finishing a story line for those that haven't done it yet.

Really the only thing that makes 11 different from gear grinders is story(thanks to 14 can't even say "Final Fantasy" anymore). As far as just gear grinding there are tons of other games with better graphics, controls, UIs and free out there that just do that better.

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Originally Posted by Fatty

I must admit I didn't read all of the thread, in fact I could only read a little before I could feel a strong urge to comment here.

Parts of the FFXI community is like poison to new players, or people with different opinions/experience. This is quite evident in this thread.

A lot of you sound like grumpy old men, bitterly repeating the glorious old days where you've done some incredible hard work, now preaching the kids to "suck it up", "back in my days.. we shouted for parties all night long for just one mission, only to see it fail once more"

"They should've FORCED people to have the +1 gear already" - Why? Do you know this is just a game? I feel so much bitterness behind words like this, and in some of the people of this community.

This type of bitterness and other negative attitudes are unfortunately not so uncommon. So much that it put me off from playing several times in the past. Luckily though, there are also great people here. Kind, helpful, understanding, welcoming people - not boiling with anger inside, hating every fresh opinion and people in general, and solely living in Vana'diel.

The game is not hard. You can accomplish anything in XI if you simply play enough (if you have enough time). Some of us don't, but still enjoy the game nevertheless, and we should be allowed to. .

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Thanks. This is seriously how I feel.

And Ravenmore - I am *not* running out of things to do, and neither is anyone else who isn't done these missions. Never have I ever complained about "not having enough to do" - the people who do, by and large, are done these missions. Making people like me solo them instead of playing with my friends doesn't make the game better, it makes it worse.

Example: last night I helped my friends/LS mates get some voidwatch clears so they could unlock empy weapon skills. Yeah - they had to do something to unlock their WS - AND no, that isn't evidence that everyone should have to do totally unrelated content from 8 years ago to get today's armor.

Point is, I don't mind some small gating, especially when that gating is battle content. The problem with the missions is 95% of it is cut scenes. I'd rather help my friends get voidwatch clears than walk back and forth between NPCs. The game making me decide whether to bore myself to tears walking between cut scenes or miss out on a set of armor entirely... well that sucks.

Again it is those CS that FF11 has left that sets it apart from every other cheap gear grinder and current reforge gear is not that great or must have now. Most of it is ok to good but not much of it is worth rushing out to get as well as nothing is stopping you from doing the current battle content to get the seals and doing it a little at a time. then unlike other battle content they even built in a way for when the rush has past to still collect the items needed to reforge your gear so again there is 0 rush.

Those fights are also NOT new and from the ZM/CoP era of the game just rehashed to increase the difficulty which at normal is about as hard as they were at 75. Take away the story and you're left with a outdated version of 14 since everything recently we have gotten has either been reused fights or straight copy of 14 systems. New skirmish gear is coming along with other new gear like reforged relic that will most likely be as good if not better except for a couple of macro pieces.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Again it is those CS that FF11 has left that sets it apart from every other cheap gear grinder and current reforge gear is not that great or must have now...

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I want to reforge my armor not because it's the best but because I want to look like a BST again. See my signature. I want to wear that shirt again.

Also, everyone likes different things. I'm not asking SE to remove the cutscenes from the game, I'm asking to not be forced to watch them in order to do completely unrelated content that I would like to have access to. Sometimes (rarely) I am in the mood for doing some storyline, but that's very rare. Last night for example, was actually going to work on it, but then friends in the LS needed some help with an NM. Why is it so hard to understand that I would rather spend my time playing with other people than running between cut scenes? Why would the developers want people to have to NOT PLAY WITH THEIR FRIENDS if they want to access current content - it is insane.

Because CoP is sooo CS heavy vs some other expansions though I will admit the go see Ulma and come back bits are eye rollers. Though it's not ToA where whole missions were just one quick CS followed by that damn jp midnight bs followed by go past stuff that will still agro a lv 99 to win a bcnm. With reforging of relic coming up are you going to complain that they are probably going to force people to do dynamis?

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Originally Posted by Lithera

Because CoP is sooo CS heavy vs some other expansions though I will admit the go see Ulma and come back bits are eye rollers. Though it's not ToA where whole missions were just one quick CS followed by that damn jp midnight bs followed by go past stuff that will still agro a lv 99 to win a bcnm. With reforging of relic coming up are you going to complain that they are probably going to force people to do dynamis?

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Dynamis is battle content. It's different. Also - maybe you have not done COP in a long time but 95% of it is cut scenes.

I have zero problem with needing to do battle content to get gear. I do have a problem with requiring SIGNIFICANT storyline progress to do battle content. Requiring stuff that takes an hour to do (like getting to mission 3 in conquest or whatever) is fine... requiring a full month of my playtime be spent soloing so I can utilize the rewards of battle content I currently have access to is moronic.

If I want a reward from doing the COP questline I should have to do COP 0- as it is the mission reward. If I want reforged relic, I should only have to do the battle content and the SPECIFIC QUESTS to get the base pieces. I'm not asking to have anything handed to me, I'm asking to not be roadblocked by something that is completely unrelated to the battle content/gear at issue.