New 1 hours

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nyheen

how about SE just cancel the new 1 hours if you people going to cry about it.

---

This is actually a perfect benchmark for this. When a particular job is so annoyed by a change, even an addition, that they'd rather have nothing just so they don't have to be annoyed by seeing it in their list and remembering how stupid the change was, then you've gone wrong.

The beautiful irony in your statement is that there are probably quite a few RDM that would not care one bit if you canceled it because they'd rather keep their dignity than be given a ridiculous new ability.

It's like how many people feel about the iLvl system. They wanted the game to progress but if you gave them the choice between iLvl and NOTHING they'd choose NOTHING.

Note that as usual I have no stake in this either way so don't bother addressing it to me. I can't even play with the new toys unless I level up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

That's the thing. You and some people like you have pissed and moaned for months and months over people pissing and moaning at legitimate problems. The people you are bitching at don't care and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be.

Seriously seeing people bitching about bitching is just hilarious especially when the original complaints are over 9000% valid while the shut up and take it responses aren't

---

You must be seriously confusing me with someone else tho. This is the 1st time I've ever spoke up about this because to be quite frank... it's gotten really old. The complaints can be as valid as you think or want it to be but don't you get tired of repeating the same shit over & over?

Also if anyone's to blame for the way RDM is now it's the load of idiots who so hardcore advocated RDM melee to begin with thinking that it might actually be something viable. I will admit that at least SMN got a damn good new SP vs what RDM got but hey considering SMN hasn't been thrown a bone *or a cait sith for that matter* in years I kinda thought RDM would get something also.

Edit: Missed this..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluestar2kx

Complaining all the time, esp the way the other poster was, is not solving the problem. Sure be vocal, and express a problem, it won't be solved otherwise. But complaining constantly to the annoyance of other posters is a problem in itself.

---

Hit the nail right on the damn head.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Randnum

...if you gave them the choice between iLvl and NOTHING they'd choose NOTHING.

---

If I could give you all the Likes for this, I would. There are often people who seem baffled by the fact that there are complaints when we are given new features, and this is the reason for it. If you were in a restaurant and were given a side order of excrement with your meal, and then told that you had to eat both items or neither, you would not be impressed.

W.r.t. there being too many complaints, the fault lies with SE for creating dodgey content and being deaf to feedback. I can appreciate that seeing endless complaints can be boring but people have invested a lot of time and emotion into this game and have a right to speak up when things go horribly wrong. Blatant budget and staffing redirection and a complete lack of understanding of the game are NOT the playerbases' fault, and if people don't call SE out on it then things will just keep getting worse.

I don't think complaining once and then ignoring the issue is going to get their attention - we have plenty of evidence that this doesn't work. Indeed, if every single post on this forum was a well structured and valid complaint I'm pretty sure they'd ignore the whole lot, or simply put the forums under indefinite maintenance. However, it's better than not trying at all.

I haven't tried many of them yet.

I love the new BST ability. They should have put this in as the first instead of Familiar.

The MNK ability might be nice if it lasted more than 30 seconds. Who needs a boost of HP that short lived?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNK

You must be seriously confusing me with someone else tho. This is the 1st time I've ever spoke up about this because to be quite frank... it's gotten really old. The complaints can be as valid as you think or want it to be but don't you get tired of repeating the same shit over & over?

Also if anyone's to blame for the way RDM is now it's the load of idiots who so hardcore advocated RDM melee to begin with thinking that it might actually be something viable. I will admit that at least SMN got a damn good new SP vs what RDM got but hey considering SMN hasn't been thrown a bone *or a cait sith for that matter* in years I kinda thought RDM would get something also.

Edit: Missed this..




Hit the nail right on the damn head.

---

I agree, I wish they would just quit already.

Complaints are fine. We're customers, if we're dissatisfied with the product, we have the right to offer feedback in this forum which was designed for that.

What's NOT okay is the way complaints are delivered. Frankly, the vast majority of complaints are rude and abusive. Being dissatisfied with a product doesn't give you the right to be a jerk to the customer service reps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNK

SMN hasn't been thrown a bone *or a cait sith for that matter* in years I kinda thought RDM would get something also.

---

Not sure I'd call another +250ish avatar mab and ilvl pets in the last few months months not thrown a bone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarchery

The MNK ability might be nice if it lasted more than 30 seconds. Who needs a boost of HP that short lived?

---

I've read it gives you 100% counter rate as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarchery

Complaints are fine. We're customers, if we're dissatisfied with the product, we have the right to offer feedback in this forum which was designed for that.

What's NOT okay is the way complaints are delivered. Frankly, the vast majority of complaints are rude and abusive. Being dissatisfied with a product doesn't give you the right to be a jerk to the customer service reps.

---

While I agree in general that complaints should be presented in a better matter it's also somewhat understandable that when complaints are presented they are completely dismissed. Especially when the reasoning given is complete BS an at times in manners that sound rather patronizing. In short they are being jerks as well and while that doesn't justify anything it makes it somewhat understandable why people are so frustrated

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

While I agree in general that complaints should be presented in a better matter it's also somewhat understandable that when complaints are presented they are completely dismissed. Especially when the reasoning given is complete BS an at times in manners that sound rather patronizing. In short they are being jerks as well and while that doesn't justify anything it makes it somewhat understandable why people are so frustrated

---

You may have a point, but some of the complaints by the users are so hateful and vitriolic that they should be ashamed of themselves. I also think that "we have heard your request, and the answer is no" is sometimes an acceptable response, but it is often treated as though it is never acceptable.

Unfortunately that wasn't there response. There response was nuh uh it's super awesome don't you know you can enhance potency with more mnd maybe that's why your debuffs suck. And it's just too hard for you to understand how useful they will be until you get into a situation to use them <.<. And how repeatidly casting silence and sleep would completely incapacitate monsters <.<. Aside from the fact that simply not true and multiple casts over say 30 seconds aren't going to be any better than 1 how is it ok to terror lock things for a minute with blu or stun lock things for several minutes with sch? Or blm with it's huge macc ability over time casting those same spells or brd with N/T doing lullaby?

We aren't getting a simple no we don't want you to get something good. That might have at least been somewhat accepted instead we get condescension and defenses that were rather disingenious to say the least

I was banned for 10 days and am catching up on the posts I missed I wanted to reply to in the mean time, so forgive me if I slim some of these down and cut some minor things out in order to conserve space, the link in the top corner of the quote is there if you wanna see the full thing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNK

You and a lot of people have pissed and moaned for months and months over RDM's lack of real utility anymore. SE doesn't seem nor care to listen anymore. The job will never be like it was in 2004/2005 anymore and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be.

---

Who said they wanted RDM to be king of the world soloing WKs and Delve like RDM did Sky and such? No one. People want RDM not to suck, not to be a worthless job, and so we complain. Guess what, don't like the complaints, don't read them, our complaints are justified and reasonable, how about we take your favorite jobs and throw them into obscurity by nerfing everything about it which made it good then on top of it never give it anything good ever against outside of hand-me-downs from an overgeneralized gear set? Then we can see how much you complain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

That's the thing. You and some people like you have pissed and moaned for months and months over people pissing and moaning at legitimate problems. The people you are bitching at don't care and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be.

Seriously seeing people bitching about bitching is just hilarious especially when the original complaints are over 9000% valid while the shut up and take it responses aren't

---

Its just an example of the stupidity these forums so often exhibit sadly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluestar2kx

Moving on to this new ability.
I think it's only fair to reserve judgment until we see if they carry out their statement that new events are coming that will favor this ability. Perhap it doesn't just have macc, perhaps it has potency, something that increases the power of the enfeebling spell cast with the ability active so it proc's more often on more powerful monsters. It just came out a few days ago after all, we need to test it and see if it does. Wouldn't be the first time SE added something with a hidden effect, nor are they always forthcoming about hiding effects.

---

We had the ability to test it on the test server to see how it worked, it was Elemental Seal as we said, basically landed a single spell dead on, like Elemental Seal does, didn't break immunities, still doesn't, and it does not give potency. SE also said it would not give potency because that's what Saboteur does, for the sake of making this long post less, well, long, I will not post that here unless you actually request me to, in which case Ill take the time to go dig it up rq. For now, I hope you take my word for it.

In either case, this effect would have had use only if there were new enfeebling abilities that came out which do the exact thing they are trying to prevent us from, locking down monsters. If we got Amnesia, cool, I can see a ton of use for that so long as there are no immunities like in Adoulin and so on, however, soon as we see immunities, boom, worthless again, and that ability could never exist anyways because, again, locks a mob down to much, like Silence, but better. If you want an example of SE's fear of Enfeebling magic look no further than that of Break, a spell which petrifies a target, and by petrifies I mean it puts them to sleep in the same way sleep does with a short duration and hardly any differences, not even close to the real petrify we see from, say, mobs who cast the same spell, which petrifies us for a certain amount of time, which can be resisted or removed, but prevents any and all action from the player. Why did we not get this effect even though nearly every pre-SoA NM was immune to it in the entire game!? Because, it would lock down a mob.

Quote:

---

Obviously i'm not a career red mage, so I've no way to test this in any situation, nor am I in adoulin events as of yet.
But I don't think giving SE a fair chance is unreasonable. This ability could be useful, maybe not in adoulin, but new content it maybe, and as I said, it may have effects we don't know about yet, effects that could make that new content need or even require a red mage, or multiple red mages.

---

The issue is not truly even with the ability itself, its the lack of use for Enfeebling magic in any endgame setting. I specify endgame because, simply put, that's the only time a RDM worth his Chapeau now days would have any chance at being resisted, and as such, you see the issue. If we can land anything we want on NMs, and most spells hardly do anything to them to begin with, what use do we have for an ability that makes a spell land 100% of the time? I am a career RDM, and I can tell you from experience that from the moment I saw this ability, I knew how it would turn out, and its just as I expected.

Quote:

---

As for red mage vs scholar.
They may be tied for macc, but not the enfeebling spell selection. Red mage still wins that category, although (again not being a high level red mage) I can't test the potency of the tier 2 enfeebling merit spells vs the regular. Phalanx I don't know about, the stats on wiki show it's basically the same as the tier 2 except can be cast on others without using accession.

---

RDM's spell selection is larger in the most minor way possible. Let me explain. If you have a SCH/RDM in your party and a RDM/SCH in your party the RDM will have, without counting merits, 2 enfeebles so far as I can recall, that are not known by the SCH as well, these two are Addle, and Gravity II. Addle is learnt by WHMs, I believe even before RDMs learn it, possibly shortly after, point being, they learn it, and a WHM is in every EG party, so we can already safely assume that a WHM is in the party capable of casting, and likely landing the spell. Gravity II is a spell only known to RDMs, same as the original, however the SCH as the original due to sub job, and the gravity in the form of Weight is the same effect as the RDM's, RDM will get -20 EVA on the target that the SCH will not, that is the only difference. So the SCH loses out on a slight EVA debuff.

Moving on to the idea of merits, the potency so far as I know is not all to much higher, Phalanx is the exact same at 500 Enhancing Skill, a benchmark which all RDMs worth their Chapeau should be able to hit or at very least get extremely close to. SCHs surely have a more difficult time reaching that level, but in the end the effects are the same. Enfeebling like Paralyze and Slow are sure to be more powerful, Dia III is more powerful, and Bio is ineffective but stronger than its lower level counterpart as well, the thing is, none of these are important really. Dia III is the only one we use in today's FFXI which we place any amount of importance on, because we can not Paralyze or Slow TP attacks and through our zerging we do today due to crunch time limits in every EG event, that's all we are threatened by. This leaves us with Dia, an effect which can be enhanced by Light Shot to the point that be it Dia III or II, we can get roughly the same thing in the end.

So far as accuracy goes, if you count the JA and the best gear, a SCH should easily beat a RDM in Magic Accuracy now days, which is pathetic and insulting as that seems to be our only use SE grants us anymore.

Quote:

---

Scholar definitely wins in raw nuking power, which is fun on scholar ^^ But you burn MP so fast (poor black mage lol) sublimation isn't enough to keep up, and overwrites refresh ;; At my scholar's level so far, refresh 2 would be nicer than sublimation. Stratagems help of course, but spending them all on parsimony to conserve mp seems wasteful.

But red mage would be able to cast more frequently, possibility evening up the damage gap with endgame staves. My friend was telling me stone I can hit like a truck and almost reach stone III damage with the right gear and III can reach almost IV's damage. So I don't know if scholar having tier V access is great or not as he said it doesn't scale the same way as tier 1, 2 and 3 do with that gear, 4 and 5 seem to stagnate in scaling. But i can't compare yet sadly, only my automation has tier V access, and she's only averaging about 1k unresisted lol.

---

I would suggest a Sublimation/Idle set for your SCH, as well as possibly picking up the Seidr Body, its wonderful infinite MP on any lower tier nukes. Which by the way, lower tier nukes are what you should focus on any time you have any sort of MP issues, or you are fighting something without a nice amount of Refresh, because unless you can get MP back easily you probably want to use the most MP efficient spells available, which are lower tiers. Having T5 spells will not make SCH all to much better in DMG, but where SCH wins in damage with nukes is access to 1 single little staff. Atinian. Which beats out every single nuking option for RDM in the game. And by now, Mythic is also better than any RDM Nuking or Magic Accuracy option in the game as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Randnum

This is actually a perfect benchmark for this. When a particular job is so annoyed by a change, even an addition, that they'd rather have nothing just so they don't have to be annoyed by seeing it in their list and remembering how stupid the change was, then you've gone wrong.

The beautiful irony in your statement is that there are probably quite a few RDM that would not care one bit if you canceled it because they'd rather keep their dignity than be given a ridiculous new ability.

---

And that's exactly how I feel about this. I feel insulted and humiliated by the fact SE thought this was the right way to go with the job's new ability, and in the face of countless amounts of feedback in multiple threads still sought fit to release it as it were. I would have rathered them give RDM nothing than this waste of an ability, for the only use I have found for it since the update was paralyzing Dragua or Azdaja, because Abyssea mobs were given extreme amounts of resistance to everything they were not immune to in most cases.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNK

Also if anyone's to blame for the way RDM is now it's the load of idiots who so hardcore advocated RDM melee to begin with thinking that it might actually be something viable.

---

Oh, excuse me, the fault for RDM being a horrible job now is because a load of people thought it should be a hybrid job as it has been in just about every FF game? Sorry, I missed the part where us being on Relic Sword/Dagger, Mythic Sword, Empyrean Sword, having our highest skill in Swords and Daggers while no skill in staff and hardly any in club, all pointed to the fact we were meant to be a backline job.

No, if you want to blame people, its the people who went out and soloed everything in the game as RDM, and then it became SE's and all of the complainer's faults for having nerfed it into obscurity, rather than simply properly balancing the job and making it fair rather than a god. They could easily upgrade the melee aspects of RDM today as well as its gear selection and its utility and it would never come close to what it used to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jerbob

If I could give you all the Likes for this, I would. There are often people who seem baffled by the fact that there are complaints when we are given new features, and this is the reason for it. If you were in a restaurant and were given a side order of excrement with your meal, and then told that you had to eat both items or neither, you would not be impressed.

W.r.t. there being too many complaints, the fault lies with SE for creating dodgey content and being deaf to feedback. I can appreciate that seeing endless complaints can be boring but people have invested a lot of time and emotion into this game and have a right to speak up when things go horribly wrong. Blatant budget and staffing redirection and a complete lack of understanding of the game are NOT the playerbases' fault, and if people don't call SE out on it then things will just keep getting worse.

I don't think complaining once and then ignoring the issue is going to get their attention - we have plenty of evidence that this doesn't work. Indeed, if every single post on this forum was a well structured and valid complaint I'm pretty sure they'd ignore the whole lot, or simply put the forums under indefinite maintenance. However, it's better than not trying at all.

---

Again explaining just how I feel. We have made well reasoned posts many times in the past, or at least I have, but I have seen how little it has ever gotten me, which is why I end up repeating the same complaints over and over, maybe if I say it enough SE will take notice, but even if they don't, its better than having done nothing to even try. As you said, the fact we have to deal with all of these issues anyways is largely not a fault of the players, but something we have been made to deal with by force, and of course we are going to complain about such an outrageous thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Draylo

I agree, I wish they would just quit already.

---

So the player base can get smaller, resulting in more people quitting, less people participating in game, less events being done, less money going to SE, and so the game can be shut down even sooner? More people quitting would just take more people off this game as its profit continues to dwindle. Wishing we would quit does nothing but make you look like an idiot because it would do more damage to the game than us staying and complaining on the forums where we can vent out rage, only to go back to the depressing game that FFXI has become where we will continue to play anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

Not sure I'd call another +250ish avatar mab and ilvl pets in the last few months months not thrown a bone

---

Yeah but admittedly RDM gets to come to events and Dia or Silence NMs now, I guess a massive damage increase that gives a job a viable use is equal to letting a RDM do the equivalent of a half decent SCH and giving them nothing else, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

While I agree in general that complaints should be presented in a better matter it's also somewhat understandable that when complaints are presented they are completely dismissed. Especially when the reasoning given is complete BS an at times in manners that sound rather patronizing. In short they are being jerks as well and while that doesn't justify anything it makes it somewhat understandable why people are so frustrated

---

I admit, many of my posts today are fueled by rage and anger at what I think of as incompetence when addressing player feedback(note, not insulting the developers, but stating what I think of it as in many cases, not saying that it is what it is), I used to post well thought out posts first before submitting myself to my anger on a topic and lashing out, however, I stopped doing that for the very reason of what you just said. I have grown tired of their failure to respond properly to the feedback they have received and after so long of feeling ignored, I have gotten frustrated to the point I no longer see a reason to temper my anger and put it into a well thought out and polite post, but instead, I often just speak my mind pure and simple, which results in a 10 day ban like the one I just had lifted today, the result of my mind speaking on the topic of the new RDM SP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarchery

I also think that "we have heard your request, and the answer is no" is sometimes an acceptable response, but it is often treated as though it is never acceptable.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

Unfortunately that wasn't there response. There response was nuh uh it's super awesome don't you know you can enhance potency with more mnd maybe that's why your debuffs suck. And it's just too hard for you to understand how useful they will be until you get into a situation to use them <.<. And how repeatidly casting silence and sleep would completely incapacitate monsters <.<. Aside from the fact that simply not true and multiple casts over say 30 seconds aren't going to be any better than 1 how is it ok to terror lock things for a minute with blu or stun lock things for several minutes with sch? Or blm with it's huge macc ability over time casting those same spells or brd with N/T doing lullaby?

We aren't getting a simple no we don't want you to get something good. That might have at least been somewhat accepted instead we get condescension and defenses that were rather disingenious to say the least

---

Thank you so very much for making this point, I wanted to make it since the day I was banned and they made that dreadful post saying that it was to stop Silence and Sleep from locking mobs. Jobs have already been capable of doing exactly what they are saying they do not want RDM to be able to do for a long time. BRD has had the ability to use what is basically Chainspell Sleepgas which can not miss the target, every 10 minutes, with abilities which last a full minute. Yet, RDM is told our new SP which no one wanted would be good, but could only be used for a single spell to prevent doing exactly what BRD has been able to do for so long, and ours must be on a 1 hour timer rather than a 10 minute timer such as Elemental Seal or Troubadour.

I admit, I wanted to mimic BRDs, but not in this way, I wanted Soul Voice for RDM, for Enhancing Magic, that would have been very fair for us, a different kind of buffing, hardly any party buffs without /SCH, only 6~7 minute durations rather than nearly 10 minute durations like BRD is capable of, almost all buffs would still be minor like Phalanx or Enspells, but we would have some that could shine. Rather than giving us that, which is so very close to their original idea, they thought this ability had potential still, and implemented it and then gave it restrictions which make no sense, and prevent the ability from being truly useful in hardly any situation worth caring.

They did not simply tell us our idea was bad, they told us we were wrong about why it was bad, that we did not understand, when we most certainly do, and that it has a use, when they fail to even understand the true issue, and above all, told us effectively that our feedback did not matter, because while we had so many people saying not to do it, they showed not a bit of care, and instead pushed forward. They keep talking about how they want more feedback, they will listen, they want to move forward and make FFXI a better game for everyone to enjoy, but at the same time they ignored a massive amount of people telling them not to do this all because they thought we did not know. To me, we have ever reason to complain about that.



Please forgive me for the massive post, but I have had many things I have wanted to say on these forums after the last 10 days as well as this update, after being unbanned today I wanted to make this post replying to it all, since I was unable to speak my mind during the original time of the post.

I hope you all understand.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you were banned to begin with.

Oh missed this nugget.

Quote:

---

Oh, excuse me, the fault for RDM being a horrible job now is because a load of people thought it should be a hybrid job as it has been in just about every FF game? Sorry, I missed the part where us being on Relic Sword/Dagger, Mythic Sword, Empyrean Sword, having our highest skill in Swords and Daggers while no skill in staff and hardly any in club, all pointed to the fact we were meant to be a backline job.

---

Just because your job is on a weapon doesn't mean you're going to be good with it no matter what it is. SE is retarded for putting jobs being able to use certain weapons with no benifit whatsoever. The fact you held all this crap in waiting with baited breath to be unbanned so you come come to RDM's rescue makes me wonder why you give so much of a crap about a job you know that SE isn't going to do anything with anymore other then give it silly lil buffs which serve no benifit whatsoever outside of solo *Looking at you Temper* or whatever else suits your fancy. RDM's a good job even now just it won't be anything you think you want it to be.

Sooner you wake up and realize that, the happier you'll be.

Greetings,

Previously Producer Akihiko Matsui made the following comment about Charm:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

In regards to Charm having a short effect duration, we would like to make adjustments to this, but we are still looking into this at the moment and need a bit of time.

---

The development team is planning to make it so the effect duration relies on your main weapon’s item level, and they are aiming to do this in the December version update.

The reason for only relying on your main weapon is to make it easier to understand without having to procure various other equipment, and the rule is the same as when using “Call Beast.”

Thanks for all the feedback regarding Stymie.

While this may end up being a repeat of what was mentioned previously by Producer Akihiko Matsui, the development team feels that when it comes to the newly implemented seal battlefields, this ability is effective and has its uses.

We encourage you to enter these battlefields and try out strategies using this ability.

On the other hand, the development team is aware that when it comes to Delve and other alliance based content, red mage is having difficulties performing, and they will be looking into adjustments for the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okipuit

Thanks for all the feedback regarding Stymie.

While this may end up being a repeat of what was mentioned previously by Producer Akihiko Matsui, the development team feels that when it comes to the newly implemented seal battlefields, this ability is effective and has its uses.

We encourage you to enter these battlefields and try out strategies using this ability.

On the other hand, the development team is aware that when it comes to Delve and other alliance based content, red mage is having difficulties performing, and they will be looking into adjustments for the future.

---

We understand that you feel it has its uses, but we do not need it, we do not use it, and we do not like it. Has any serious RDM said it was a good ability?

The fact of the matter is Matsui that during this game's life we have had two ways things could go, how the players want it, or how the development team wants it, the sad thing is, most often it is the way the development team wants it in the end, you came saying you wanted to make this game better for all, I implore you, if that is truly your goal, listen to our feedback. You say you want our feedback, this is a chance to use it, we don't want this ability, look at just about every post you have made about the new SPs, nearly every one of them has had a reply to this because we do not want it, and we keep saying so.

How is it right or fair to tell us we can not change this, even through large amounts of feedback, because you like it, so much so that you have to mention it every time to us that you think the ability is fine as it is because we keep complaining about it? To me, its not fair, you want feedback it seems but only feedback you agree with, in this case, you do not agree with us, not because of balance, not because of the job being to strong already, but because you want to keep what you like, because you think its good and useful, and if that's what it comes down to, why should we even post feedback in the first place? I really hope you did not read my RDM thread yet, and upon doing so will do as I asked, because this ability really does drown the hopes of RDM being a good and useful job once again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNK

Maybe you should ask yourself why you were banned to begin with.

---

I got an Email telling me why I was banned, I need not ask that to which I already know the answer.

Quote:

---

Just because your job is on a weapon doesn't mean you're going to be good with it no matter what it is. SE is retarded for putting jobs being able to use certain weapons with no benifit whatsoever.

---

You see, part of why RDM needs a sword, and should use one and be good with it, is because in today's FFXI we have nothing we can do better than a SCH/RDM really, SCH is much better at both white and black magic than we can hope to be, it stole our role in that respect, our third part to our job, melee, is the only thing that makes us special anymore.

Quote:

---

The fact you held all this crap in waiting with baited breath to be unbanned so you come come to RDM's rescue makes me wonder why you give so much of a crap about a job you know that SE isn't going to do anything with anymore other then give it silly lil buffs which serve no benifit whatsoever outside of solo *Looking at you Temper* or whatever else suits your fancy.

---

If we got real melee gear, like Buremte, more often, we could use Temper and the like on the front lines, and fill that role as well as back line roles, we could also use a trait to allow us to attack while casting, which would solves that entire issue, but no, people are against the idea of RDMs ever using a sword, always have been, always will be I suppose. As for why do I care, I started as RDM and played it from then till now, I have always done my best to melee when given the chance, I have always tried to better myself, and I have always put all of my work into it, even through other jobs. My care about RDM is because I worked hard on the job, I worked hard to be good at the job, and I worked hard to learn everything I could about the job, and in the end it amounts to nothing if the job itself amounts to nothing, so I care because I think of myself as one of the best there are when it comes to RDM, and I think the job deserves better, just like every PLD feels like it deserves better, and every THF feels like it deserves better.

Quote:

---

RDM's a good job even now just it won't be anything you think you want it to be.

---

Please, explain to me what great use a RDM can be that a SCH/RDM can not already fulfill.

Quote:

---

Sooner you wake up and realize that, the happier you'll be.

---

Perhaps you are the one who needs to make the realization of RDM's place in the game currently, and you can understand the anger and frustration rather than complaining about those who exhibit it.

I'm going to have to side with SNK on this one Demon. I believe your vision and SE's vision of RDM are not in sync and I don't believe SE is in the wrong here. RDM is still a very viable job to play but in a different style than it once was.

Like all things, change comes and goes, and this is no different. SE has nerfed RDM in the past and it was terrible then but people still found a way around the nerf to make RDM enjoyable and a solid job to play. One of RDM's greatest advantage over other mages is speed and it's durability. With these together, RDM can survive in most places a normal mage cannot. I still see RDM going in to delve all the time as a Silencer/Sleeper/Mage&Tank Supporter. Just because they have some fancy swords doesnt mean they will be using them all the time. Look at Whm... for years they have decent clubs and a great WS to boot... yet when did they ever have the chance to run up to use them?

I don't mean to tear you down or belittle you, I'm simply elaborating on the point SNK might have been trying to make in their post. We all have a favorite job and we all want to see it do the best they can to our personal vision. But in the end, it's not our vision to control. We simply play with the ball SE provides us with. If they say it's fine if the ball only bounces 15 feet when we want it to bounce 20, who's to say they are wrong? It's a game they provide us with, it's up to us to make the game happen and enjoyable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zephrose

it's up to us to make the game happen and enjoyable.

---

I have a broken phone for sale ( I dropped it in the toilet) for $500. It's up to you to enjoy it. I accept paypal, visa, master card and of course cash money. How would you like to pay?

@Zephrose
From long before the days of FFXI, Red Mage was a hybrid job. A jack of all trades. They melee and they cast with equal effectiveness. If it does not fit that vision, then they're doing it wrong. If it doesn't melee it's not a RDM. Melee is as much an aspect of RDM as it is for MNK or WAR or DNC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camiie

@Zephrose
From long before the days of FFXI, Red Mage was a hybrid job. A jack of all trades. They melee and they cast with equal effectiveness. If it does not fit that vision, then they're doing it wrong. If it doesn't melee it's not a RDM. Melee is as much an aspect of RDM as it is for MNK or WAR or DNC.

---

Then that's your vision of it from other games. In FFXI, it is also capable of doing melee but not at the level of other melee-centric jobs. It's your word that says it's wrong, not their's. Last time I checked, SE made the Final Fantasy franchise, not the players/fans. And have mercy if a player/fan base actually controlled an MMO... Man would we be %$#@ed!

@FrankReynolds

Your sarcasm is not welcome in such an expression and I hesitate to respond to this. However, if such a thing were to happen to the game where it would reflect a broken cell phone, I would just simply quit. If you feel the game has gone to this level, I would suggest it. I have yet to see it go to that level and still have friends I enjoy playing with. So really, it's not all bad atm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zephrose

I'm going to have to side with SNK on this one Demon. I believe your vision and SE's vision of RDM are not in sync and I don't believe SE is in the wrong here. RDM is still a very viable job to play but in a different style than it once was.

Like all things, change comes and goes, and this is no different. SE has nerfed RDM in the past and it was terrible then but people still found a way around the nerf to make RDM enjoyable and a solid job to play. One of RDM's greatest advantage over other mages is speed and it's durability. With these together, RDM can survive in most places a normal mage cannot. I still see RDM going in to delve all the time as a Silencer/Sleeper/Mage&Tank Supporter. Just because they have some fancy swords doesnt mean they will be using them all the time. Look at Whm... for years they have decent clubs and a great WS to boot... yet when did they ever have the chance to run up to use them?

I don't mean to tear you down or belittle you, I'm simply elaborating on the point SNK might have been trying to make in their post. We all have a favorite job and we all want to see it do the best they can to our personal vision. But in the end, it's not our vision to control. We simply play with the ball SE provides us with. If they say it's fine if the ball only bounces 15 feet when we want it to bounce 20, who's to say they are wrong? It's a game they provide us with, it's up to us to make the game happen and enjoyable.

---

The problem is while rdm is "viable" it's viable in the same sense that thf is "viable" as a DD. It does do the job sortish but is very much inferior. Just because people continue to use it doesn't make it any better.

While I could care less if rdm can dd (I mean it does have mediocre dagger/swd skill) but having the highest base enhancing and enfeebling skill should mean something but it doesn't now and hasn't for a long time. And why should 1 job have to work around nerfs while other jobs incorporate huge buffs? I'm all for trying to make the best out of a bad situation but part of that is trying actually fix the bad situation not just walk around it and pretend it doesn't exist. I mean really that's half the point of the feedback from these official forums. It certainly isn't just to shut up and take it like you suggest

Also your anology would be more like if we want the ball to bounce 20 feet, other balls end up bouncing 30 and one deflates. Guess what that is wrong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zephrose

@FrankReynolds

Your sarcasm is not welcome in such an expression and I hesitate to respond to this. However, if such a thing were to happen to the game where it would reflect a broken cell phone, I would just simply quit. If you feel the game has gone to this level, I would suggest it. I have yet to see it go to that level and still have friends I enjoy playing with. So really, it's not all bad atm.

---

Personally I would attempt to have the cell phone fixed or replaced instead of telling the user that he / she needed to make the phone enjoyable. But, that's just me. You are an excellent consumer. Personally, I see this game as an ongoing service that people pay for based on their level of enjoyment. As such, it is in the best interest of the owner of said service to make it desirable and enjoyable to as many people as possible. Without that, there is really no point in releasing updates or having discussion forums at all. I don't see it as my responsibility to make them feel good about producing gameplay that I don't enjoy by making lemonade from their lemons.

I'm glad that you have friends that you enjoy playing with, but "Zephrose has friends he / she enjoys playing with..." isn't really a very good substitute for acting on customer feedback. For me personally, this game is like a dive bar that I go to because it has nostalgia even though there are much better places to go and I could see my friends any time. Recently though, they hired a bartender who waters down the drinks and a DJ that just plays mambo number 5 on repeat 24 hours a day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

The problem is while rdm is "viable" it's viable in the same sense that thf is "viable" as a DD. It does do the job sortish but is very much inferior. Just because people continue to use it doesn't make it any better.

While I could care less if rdm can dd (I mean it does have mediocre dagger/swd skill) but having the highest base enhancing and enfeebling skill should mean something but it doesn't now and hasn't for a long time. And why should 1 job have to work around nerfs while other jobs incorporate huge buffs? I'm all for trying to make the best out of a bad situation but part of that is trying actually fix the bad situation not just walk around it and pretend it doesn't exist. I mean really that's half the point of the feedback from these official forums. It certainly isn't just to shut up and take it like you suggest

Also your anology would be more like if we want the ball to bounce 20 feet, other balls end up bouncing 30 and one deflates. Guess what that is wrong

---

There is something innately wrong with that thought though. All sorts of games have different tiers of character/mechanics. Just because you want one job to be better at something that another job already has the ability to do it better doesn't make it wrong. Try looking at it from a different angle and see it for it's strengths. List out what the job does in each aspect and measure it's strengths verses other jobs. In the case of Rdm, it has a couple strengths over Sch I can already think of. As for Thf, it too has strengths over other DDs as well, however raw DD power is not one of them.

To openly attack someone that is defending SE for what they are doing is just shameful. All I see is bias opinions and unnecessary crying over something that isn't broken nor fully explored. Plenty of jobs have taken a hit nerf wise or had a job rise above them. You know what that's call in MMO terms? Flavor of the (time period)... An MMO is a ever growing and evolving system. With every iteration the devs push through, the game changes slightly. Players find new ways to use their jobs. Systems are used for unintended experiences. SE gives us a game to play and we play it. I don't make the game to play it... that would be asinine. No one would like it because no one would agree on anything. Which is much like what's going on now... A bunch of complaining because they didn't get what they wanted.

This will be my last post on the subject as it seems there is no reasonable argument on the subject. Later down the road you'll look back at this time and laugh how silly all this feuding was. Enjoy your time while you have it. Don't waste it on meaningless squabbling. <Take Care.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophannus

Fly High wears off after 30 seconds on my character despite being advertised as a 45second ability.

---

Fly High's duration was originally planned to be 30 seconds and we have corrected the version update information to reflect that. We do apologize for that error.

We appreciate your feedback on the new SP abilities and we do have plans to adjust some of the new SP abilities and previously existing ones moving forward. While we can't disclose specific details or promise a an implementation period as of yet, we'll be sure to let you know as soon as we receive details. We're just as anxious as you are to hear more on this. :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zephrose

Then that's your vision of it from other games.

---

No, that's what the job was. That's the concept of it.

Quote:

---

In FFXI, it is also capable of doing melee but not at the level of other melee-centric jobs. It's your word that says it's wrong, not their's.

---

http://www.playonline.com/ff11/manual/index.html?loc=en
"Red Mage
Capable of using both white and black magic, and adept at swordsmanship.
However, mastering powerful spells takes far longer than white or black mages."

From their manual to your eyes.

Quote:

---

Last time I checked, SE made the Final Fantasy franchise, not the players/fans. And have mercy if a player/fan base actually controlled an MMO... Man would we be %$#@ed!

---

If players and fans are such idiots then what does that make you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okipuit

Thanks for all the feedback regarding Stymie.

While this may end up being a repeat of what was mentioned previously by Producer Akihiko Matsui, the development team feels that when it comes to the newly implemented seal battlefields, this ability is effective and has its uses.

---

I have done several very hard mode battles, and I'm not the only one to find that having all mage using elemental seal (hi) is the way to go, and you have to cast 4+ sleepga or lullaby aoe with capped magic accuracy, so yeah a single use of the rdm's SP2 is going to be useless :P. Players have already told why the abilty is gimp, and they prove it by using elemental seal on non rdm jobs (double fail).

Exemple : "divine punishers" very hard mode
MNK/WARx2 : only DD atm
BRD/BLMx2 : 2 troubadour horde lullaby II, 2x elemental seal horde lullaby II
WHM/BLMx2 : 2x elemental seal sleepga as backup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zephrose

There is something innately wrong with that thought though. All sorts of games have different tiers of character/mechanics. Just because you want one job to be better at something that another job already has the ability to do it better doesn't make it wrong. Try looking at it from a different angle and see it for it's strengths. List out what the job does in each aspect and measure it's strengths verses other jobs. In the case of Rdm, it has a couple strengths over Sch I can already think of. As for Thf, it too has strengths over other DDs as well, however raw DD power is not one of them.

To openly attack someone that is defending SE for what they are doing is just shameful. All I see is bias opinions and unnecessary crying over something that isn't broken nor fully explored. Plenty of jobs have taken a hit nerf wise or had a job rise above them. You know what that's call in MMO terms? Flavor of the (time period)... An MMO is a ever growing and evolving system. With every iteration the devs push through, the game changes slightly. Players find new ways to use their jobs. Systems are used for unintended experiences. SE gives us a game to play and we play it. I don't make the game to play it... that would be asinine. No one would like it because no one would agree on anything. Which is much like what's going on now... A bunch of complaining because they didn't get what they wanted.

This will be my last post on the subject as it seems there is no reasonable argument on the subject. Later down the road you'll look back at this time and laugh how silly all this feuding was. Enjoy your time while you have it. Don't waste it on meaningless squabbling. <Take Care.>

---

This isn't a want this is what the job has been designed to be the best at. I know the job and know it well and there is nothing I would ever do that would make it more advantageous to bring a rdm other than I want to because it's my first job and I like it. Let's see what does it have that sch doesn't some T2 enfeebles that will never make or break you. Refresh II which also wont. Melleing? Lol. Dia III? Light shot says hello. Thf has Th and feint.

Attack? I don't think you know the meaning of the word. I merely pointed out the flaws in your reasoning. Aren't you just complaining because you aren't getting what you want and that being mindless sheep just taking whatever SE gives them. I play the game because I enjoy it. When serious issues arise that are enough to stop people from playing parts of it I point it out in hopes of getting it fixed? What is your goal? Trying to stop things from being fixed? Sticking it to the rdms?

For once something we agree on though in seperate ways. I find it silly right now. I always find it silly that people complaining about complaining. It's amazingly ironic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I have done several very hard mode battles, and I'm not the only one to find that having all mage using elemental seal (hi) is the way to go, and you have to cast 4+ sleepga or lullaby aoe with capped magic accuracy, so yeah a single use of the rdm's SP2 is going to be useless :P. Players have already told why the abilty is gimp, and they prove it by using elemental seal on non rdm jobs (double fail).

---

Yeah I didn't get that excuse either... I mean who does 1 BCNM an hour anyways? And so far what little I've seen it's only use is on mobs that used to be immune to certain spells but can be debuffed with immunobreak now can be debuffed once with stymie. Like sleeping skeletons. So stymie basically seems kinda like a double immunobreak. However so far I'm pretty sure I've gotten 1/2 resists for all stymie ones while immunobreak I have gotten full durations so not quite as good as that. Seems like this really should've been a 5-10min ja that rdm got going up to 99 (especially since it got so little anyways going up to 99)

Fly High's duration needs to be 45 seconds. Dragoons can only get off two Spirit Jumps and two Soul Jumps during the ability's duration which does not really equate to much extra damage. For example, on Delve megabosses, Spirit Jumps and Soul Jumps are doing ~500-600 damage each and the combined TP from all 4 Jumps is roughly 200, allowing roughly 2 more Weapon Skills during that 30 second SP2 duration that I normally wouldn't get. Unfortunately, compared to other SP2s, the damage output of Fly High is lower, especially because Jumps during "Fly High" can and will miss. I suppose the decision to make it 30s was because it also allows rapid succession of Super Jump which can be seen as a defensive role of "Fly High". Still though, Jump accuracy should be set to 100% and either a duration increase to 45s or allow the recast of Jumps to be lower if the Jumps are merited (If a Jump ability has 5/5 merit recast reduction, that Jump under the SP2 "Fly High" will be set to 6 seconds, would be perfect and not overpowered).


Larceny should steal at least 2 effects from a mob. While Larceny can steal SP abilities, most mobs do not use SP abilities, meanwhile DRKs can steal multiple effects with Absorb-Attribute with Nether Void. Many times on THF, I use Larceny to steal a Protect or Shell effect from a mage type mob only to be disappointed that I stole Refresh or Aquaveil. Having the SP2 steal 2-3 effects from the mob increases the chances of stealing a useful skill and makes the ability more attractive(considering NMs in most current content do not use SP2s but use abilities that grant multiple effects such as Batholithic Shell or Cacharian Verve)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophannus

Larceny should steal at least 2 effects from a mob. While Larceny can steal SP abilities, most mobs do not use SP abilities, meanwhile DRKs can steal multiple effects with Absorb-Attribute with Nether Void. Many times on THF, I use Larceny to steal a Protect or Shell effect from a mage type mob only to be disappointed that I stole Refresh or Aquaveil. Having the SP2 steal 2-3 effects from the mob increases the chances of stealing a useful skill and makes the ability more attractive(considering NMs in most current content do not use SP2s but use abilities that grant multiple effects such as Batholithic Shell or Cacharian Verve)

---

The priority rate (which has supposedly been manually set by SE) always seems to prioritise buffs which are of little to no (or at best, situational) use to the THF. MAB being prioritised over att boost for example. MDB over haste, as well as the examples that Orphanus gave.

Larceny at this point seems like it's only use vs mobs that don't use a SP ability would be if it stole ALL buffs. Not 1, not 2, but every single buff active on the mob.

I'd be content if it did a check: Does the mob have an SP ability active? Yes = steal it only. No = Steal all active buffs.

Also, thanks a bunch for giving us the only SP ability that can have NO EFFECT. Please change this so that if a mage has dispelled the buff as we're sifting through the menu to use the JA, we get an error message saying that Larceny can not be used on this mob. Larceny has no effect is a terrible thing to see in the log.

Ok for Larceny, as it currently stands, let's be completely honest.

Is it a little lackluster? Yes
Is it pretty awesome when the enemy does in fact have an SP? Yes

Here's the thing though, thf isn't being taken to anything that matters anymore.
So in theory it's one of, if not the most amazing SP ever, but in actual use it's basically useless.

Steal the WARs MS for some lol damage,
Steal a MNKs Hundo, /legit,
steal chainspell to save your life in true SP fashion, /hurray!
The other 19 SP abilities.... not so much =/ Many of which aren't even steal able, Mijin, Meiyko, Bene, Flow, Overdrive(?), Familiar, Spirit Surge (which enemy Dragoons do not even get lol) Wildcard, EES.... Bolster...

I mean come on, really? ~50%Cannot be stolen. 50% Can be, and 10% are of some value?

Does the ability to steal any regular ability really matter that much? Aside from a few select awesome times (stealing boost from Yovra etc) Nope., It really does need to steal many, if not indeed all active buffs to be a real 2hour (SP).

I mean, that's the original definition of the 2hour, to be used in a life or death situation, not to be consistently disappointed at every use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camiie

No, that's what the job was. That's the concept of it.



http://www.playonline.com/ff11/manual/index.html?loc=en
"Red Mage
Capable of using both white and black magic, and adept at swordsmanship.
However, mastering powerful spells takes far longer than white or black mages."

From their manual to your eyes.



If players and fans are such idiots then what does that make you?

---

People cry about RDM here too much.

Who cares what an 11 year old manual to a game that constantly changes says? It means nothing and so does RDM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

People cry about RDM here too much.

Who cares what an 11 year old manual to a game that constantly changes says? It means nothing and so does RDM.

---

You answered your own question with your first statement. Just because it means nothing to YOU doesn't make it meaningless. I know that when you move the camera it seems like the world revolves around your character, but it actually doesn't. You'd do well to keep that in mind.

Larceny should be bumped to full buff steal. ie you take every single buff the enemy has including any sps. Not going to redeem thf probably but god it would be fun to steal all of something like Carcharian Verve. Or even awesome when it steals a buff instead of just the thf getting it the entire pt does. Or for crazy tech when it steals a buff it inflicts an opposite but equal debuff on the mob at the same time. ie you steal some super haste they get some super slow.

Meanwhile, I'm sure nobody is complaining about SAM's new SP2 because it's ridiculously, phenomenally, incredigood.

According to Llewelyn:

Quote:

---

Confirmed:
- 45 second duration.
- Stacks with Meikyo Shisui.
- Avoids physical, magical and breath abilities.
- 20% Weapon Skill Damage increase per ability evaded.
- 60% Weapon Skill Damage cap.
- Grants 50% TP for every ability evaded.
- WSD% bonus does not reset upon weapon skilling.

---

Compared to many other SP2s, this is incredibly potent.


Can't Larceny be patched to steal something else. Like:

-Steal all of a mob's current TP.
-Steal a large number of Attributes.
-Steal a temp item i.e Berserk's Tonic/Fanatic's Powder/Lucid Elixir(would be random)
-Add a 60 second 'Bully' effect on the target
-Add a powerful Critical Hit Evasion Down debuff

etc

SAM and MNK's SP2s do so many things(Inner Strength doubles Max HP, heals them AND gives 100% counter) whereas many other SP2s just do one thing, and usually with a shorter duration.

Maybe Unbridled Wisdom could heal a BLU's MP to full considering they're combat mages and may not always have enough MP to cast more than a few spells (especially because UL spells are so expensive to cast), it also adds a secondary effect to the SP2 for some BLUs that have yet to learn many spells, it at least gives some kind of benefit in that case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Perhaps you are the one who needs to make the realization of RDM's place in the game currently, and you can understand the anger and frustration rather than complaining about those who exhibit it.

---

I see RDM's place perfectly. My Linkshell loves a damn good RDM in delve. The people in our shell who play RDM do a damn good job with the tools they have and not the tools you think they should have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Not sure if this is still the case nowadays, but at some point Saboteur was determined at one point to not carry its effects on non-targeted mobs with an AoE spell like Sleepga (the targeted mob will stay asleep longer than everything else). However, if Saboteur+Manifestation+Sleep is used instead, it will still take effect on every target hit (all mobs will stay asleep for the same amount of time, barring resists).

---

Greetings,

Currently the effect of Saboteur is not applied to AoE based spells and when using spells such as Sleepga, the increased effect duration is only applied to the initial target. However, we will be making adjustments so this effect is extended to AoE spells. At the current time unfortunately I cannot make any promises of a specific implementation time period, but once we hear developments on this we will be sure to let you know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

At the current time unfortunately I cannot make any promises of a specific implementation time period, but once we hear developments on this we will be sure to let you know.

---

Probably around the time Cait Sith is released to Summoners.