New weapons with higher base damage then relics

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Did you wield level 69 weapons at level 75?

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Not level 69 but I did wield lv 71, 72 and 73 weapons.
Destroyers, Shenlong Baghnaks, Perdu Blade, Senjuinrikio, Hagun (to name a few).

And those weapons were released with what level cap in mind?

LV90 empyreans were released for a 90 cap game, you're lucky that any of them were ever competitive at 99 in the first place.

There will be an adjustment to 99 prestige weapons however, for two reasons :

1.) SE knows better. Mythics in particular have a 350+m market value and people won't take it well if they're marginalized (any further than they already are by the limitations of mythic weapons). In particular, SE has also strongly implied (if not virtually directly stated) that they will introduce mythic weapons for GEO and RUN, so there isn't a huge interest in eliminating the competitiveness of the entire line of weaponry. 99 RME may not remain on top all the time for all purposes, but they will remain (well , those that are useful now) high in the hierarchy.

2 .) The language and structure in the JP and NA posts regarding 99 RME makes it pretty apparent that they're going to adjust the 99 versions of the weapons somehow. The only reason they would go out of their way to confirm that Afterglow weapons and non-afterglow weapons will receive the same treatment and to exclude instruments / shields because they will remain "the highest caliber" is that they plan to directly adjust the performance of these weapons. What sort of adjustment? There are a lot of things they could do, we'll just have to wait.

But yeah, continue the chorus of BRING ON THE DEMISE OF THE PRESTIGE WEAPON BECAUSE I'M ANNOYED THAT I DON'T HAVE ONE AND CAN'T COMPETE. Enjoy your AH weapons and LV85 Empyreans Q.Q

P . S . The actual Skirmishes are not difficult, so you don't need 99RME to compete in there (It's not much more difficult than Meeble Burrows). The only hard part is statues to enter , because they drop randomly in things like Reives, HELM, Soul Pyres, and Coalition Assignments.

You people do understand that there is a possibility that the skirmish weapons will impact a lot more than just the RME holders themselves right. Dynamis currency, heavy metal plates, and Alexandrite are all great sources of money that literally everyone can farm. Removing that option cuts down the way to make money by a huge amount and can create a inbalance of super rich Vs. super poor much like the super inflation from years past. It's actually already started happening on my server Dynamis coins has started dropping at a pretty fast rate, and few are buying for fear of the unknown.

If there's anything SE knows how to do it's destroy an economy.

It took me roughly a year and a half to complete my relic which I finished back in mid 2007, then probably almost another 6 months (all of this pre-nerf, 1,500 relic ws + 7,500 relic ws kills) in trials (back when the 90 trial took about 2 1/2 weeks alone, pre neo-dynamis); I just finally got enough marrows to finish my 99 relic and litterly the next day they patched the new weapons and we started finding these higher DMG augmented Skirmish weapons...

I just really wish we knew what SE true intentions were, other than a vaguely worded message that offers very little reinsurance, especially for people who put a lot of work into these type of weapons.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

If there's anything SE knows how to do it's destroy an economy.

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Who knows, maybe it will get better - I am sure they will adjust the R/M/E to make it still viable. Otherwise they will set themselves to crash and burn the game if they choose to render the pre-SoA content as outdated. Seriously, SoA is one of the WORST expansion to date that ever hit FFXI. Keeping all the old content valid would be the best idea they can come up with, even if that means a lot more people decided to not buy SoA. Why not try to come up with a good groundbreaking content that has blockbuster written all over it - then start charging us $30-40 for this.

If you all keep voicing your distaste, they will have to do something soon. Especially if what follow is nerd rage and people bum rush to SE Account management and canceling their accounts. Make your voice counts, say it if you don't like it, make suggestions. If nothing is done, then do the last thing, cancel. Come back when actual contents are updated and you deem the game worth paying and playing. I just hope it is not too late - we probably do not need another server merger.

Just remember, poor people! Relics / Mythics /Empyreans being good means you have something to sell to rich people!

Why don't SE keep the already good content good and just introduce equip that allows for more diversity and options alongside a great story. I'm sure everyone would be happy to get gear sets with store tp instead of haste etc so they have different options to choose from and it would mean people wouldn't be running around looking exactly the same like they are now.

Problem is there are no options when it comes to the best, which is what most people aim for, there is one thing that is above everything else in that situation.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

And those weapons were released with what level cap in mind?

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75, which is why you asked "were you wielding level 69 weapons when the cap was 75?" and I replied "not 69, but 71, 72 and 73".
I don't get what your point is.

Are you trying to assume that when the level cap is X then level X gear/weapons are always gonna to be better than level X-1 gear/weapons?
If this is what you're trying to say yes, you're mostly right, but there have always been several exceptions in FFXI and there continue to be.
I still use level 54ish gear in some slots (for macros and situational stuff of course) for some jobs.
Chatoyant staff is a level 51 weapon if I recall and blah blah blah, we could go on forever but we'd enter the field of "special" items with special properties that kinda get ruled out because of their uniqueness.

The examples I provided in the first line instead were weapons with a level under the cap of the time, which in spite of that were still some among the best weapons the respective jobs could get access to. There wasn't anything particularly special about them, they were just freaking awesome, period :D


In spite of all of this, it's not the first time SE uses this approach FOR GEAR and, as a matter of fact, I don't think nobody ever whined about that because after almost 11 years people got used to the pattern and the consequent balancement.
It is though the first time this happens for weapons. There is no correspondant gear that takes as much work to be obtained as R/E/M weapons and they have always represented a "roof" over which normal weapons could never go over.
The only time they disregarded this rule was when they introduced Empyreal weapons, but it didn't last long since adjustments to Relics and Mythics came shortly after.



As I already had the chance to write on BG, I don't think SE is doing this to "stimulate people into going to the new areas", it's not necessary and the new gear/newstuff was a motivation good enough, and they know it.
I rather think they are doing it for another reason.
Over the last year(s) Empyreal and Relics become so common they destroyed a "balance" there was within the game.
All other weapons become much less interesting because the majority of people were aiming for Relic/Empy, and we got to a point were people were required to have a mandatory R/E/M even for just being CONSIDERED for an invite (considered, not actually invited) to a lame and easy PUG.
Such a situation was a bit preposterous.
I think SE is trying to make so R/E/M remain cool but a thing for "a few cool people" and not for the mass.
How they're goin to do that?
Simple.
They release new better weapons and at the same time they update only the lv99 R/E/M.
Since the majority of people have 85/90 Empy and 95 Relics, they'll have to bite the dust and get the new easy weapons.

Result? Everybody gets an upgrade, the "mandatory R/E/M" attitude will die, hardcore players with 99 R/E/M won't see their precious treasure become useless because of a subsequent update.
Done! Everybody's happy!


I'm pretty confident this is their main motivation, but while I agree it's for "the greater good" it still makes me angry they're moving so late to "repair" to a mistake done over 2 years ago. I wish there could be some other way because you can't expect people to put months of works into something to see it become useless by something that can be obtained in a couple of days and feel happy about it.

I agree with them with the fact that I didn't play a lot of my jobs just for the fact that I didn't have a relic on it and therefor not considered "good" especially PLD for example. I actually got called a terrible tank despite doing a good job tanking LB10 and survived for a long time, but the issue was they didn't get a healer and just expected me to full on tank it solo while the bsts worked away at him, which would have had a better chance of working if I had an Ochain or Aegis.

I do support bringing in weapons for people who don't want to be an amazing super player but just want to generally play a job and not be ridiculed for it, but the way to do that is to not outshine the best of the best, only to bring in weapons that are slightly worse but still an option. I see no problem with the original DMG on the weapons because that put them more in line with what I'm saying. Outclassing 95 is a good way to go about it, but outclassing 99 as well... that's just stupid and if they did aim to do that then maybe they should have already buffed the 99 because this sort of mistake at this stage of the game's life-cycle could very easily be catastrophic.

Lets take an average DD now. They're probably all within 5% of each other (all things being equal). Most DDs are going to be in that 90 empy, 99 Oat GS, 99 TP bonus GK range. Substituting with a 99 R/E will give you, at best, 10-15% more damage than our average DD.

That being said, an alliance with 99 R/E DDs will kill 10-15% faster than average DDs. What the average DDs alliance takes 20 mins to kill, the pimped out 99s will take 17-18 mins to kill. Not a huge difference considering.

My point is, 99 R/E weapons have always been more trophy items than actual game changers. Honestly, I can only think of a few legitimate game changing items, and none of them are DD weapons (shields, instruments, stun staff comes to mind). So while I really do understand the concern of 99 R/E holders, they must also see the big picture and understand that their weapon never really changed their character as much as players made it out to.

This game is, and always was, about gearsets. Having competent gearsets, and using them appropriately makes a MUCH greater overall difference in gameplay than a singular weapon. So, if you have a 99 R/E then you obviously have the resources to have optimized your gearsets as well. The weapon is just the icing on the cake. So don't worry, it's not like the average Joe-Blow is going to be outdamaging you, regardless of what weapon they're using.

If SE didn't want to cause widespread paranoia why didn't they just release the r/m/e updates at the same time as the expansion or at least post notes about the planned r/m/e changes. Just saying we plan to make them not go to waste is not really reassuring.

It's funny when you see the leader of a PUG being so obsessed about gear that he demands R/E/M DDs but then he takes an average SAM with average gear only because he has a lv85 Masamune and refuses an excellent SAM with nice gear and a lv99 Kantonotachi.
Because no way that's gonna be better than an 85 Masamune, inorite? w


I think it's this kind of attitude, this kind of axioms that got so spread around the player base that SE wants to destroy or, at least, make so they have a much smaller relevance.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

It's funny when you see the leader of a PUG being so obsessed about gear that he demands R/E/M DDs but then he takes an average SAM with average gear only because he has a lv85 Masamune and refuses an excellent SAM with nice gear and a lv99 Kantonotachi.
Because no way that's gonna be better than an 85 Masamune, inorite? w


I think it's this kind of attitude, this kind of axioms that got so spread around the player base that SE wants to destroy or, at least, make so they have a much smaller relevance.

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It's kind of like when you see $5,000 rims and a sports kit on a car with a V-4 engine. It looks great until it gets smoked by a 15 year old tuner.

You're absolutely right, lots of people in-game are taking "looks" over performance.

Because its not going to get better. Every m/r/e holder that pays for the subscription post SOA is to blame for allowing SE to waste your time building r/m/e and then trolling out with the 99 updgrade items, knowing they were going to troll you again with Skirmish. I cant play anymore, I tried, the appetite to play, the desire to finish my long time goals are all gone because Skirmish outdated it ALL. Before SOA I was enjoying alot of the content in the game. Now, instead of enjoying SOA and the other content, it's only Skirmish that matters, instead of being Skirmish plus Dynamis, Abyssea, VW, etc, the events needed to make the other 3 ultimate weapons.

And I can't just switch to the only SOA mode, knowing that it was done to streamline FFXI into what every other MMO is doing, the game was not made like that. It has a history of some balance and that it wasn't like other MMO's, that's why I've been playing not only FFXI for the past five years, but ONLY this game for the past five years. No other game have I played unless there's a server issue being down for more than half a day. I used to be a FPS too!

I got really hooked on 11, but this weapon stuff is the biggest FFXI sobering moment I've had. It's not even about the courage to break my addiction, it just happened, I just can't play the game. I tried to do a quilin VW run and I felt like all those guys in the pt, which took 10x longer to fill than before, didn't know what they were getting themselves into. Like, in 3 months they'll get it, maybe sooner.

I'm not even mad anymore. I'm in a state of shock or disgust, I'm not even sure which, lol. I tried to play another game for the first time in forever and the disc tray won't eject from 360, lmao! I find myself on this very slow and old laptop more often now. Since I've been a long time supporter of FFXI I will continue to be concerned of the direction she takes, reguardless if I subscribe or not.

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Originally Posted by Fermion

My point is, 99 R/E weapons have always been more trophy items than actual game changers. Honestly, I can only think of a few legitimate game changing items, and none of them are DD weapons (shields, instruments, stun staff comes to mind). So while I really do understand the concern of 99 R/E holders, they must also see the big picture and understand that their weapon never really changed their character as much as players made it out to.

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You probably don't own one to say that.
Most of the DDs using 85 or even 90 Empyreans are gimps that think that using a weapon with a unique weapon skills make them good, well it's not. While it's not a "game changer" it sure makes a huge difference when you face a tough ennemy. I wouldn't even think about bringing a DD like that to something like Bismarck, PW or Botulus Rex.

I don't mind they release some new weapons but do they have to destroy every relics/mythics/empyreans? This is just a slap in the face to every 99 R/M/E holders.

Concerned, aren't you being a bit too hasty about this? I mean SoA hasn't been out not even 2 weeks, many players still have to receive their expansion pack and yet you come to conclusions so fast.

I'm as worried (and annoyed!!!) as anybody else if not more, but while I can't deny my feelings it would be stupid and superficial to judge things so early. It's way too early man! Give it a bit of time.
Then you'll be able to say "I TOLD YOU SO!!1!!1!one" or maybe SE will surprise you and prove you wrong.
Give it time and time will tell ;)

I'm in exactly the same place as concerned is, and it's not just a case of being hasty towards an expansion being bad or unbalanced, it's just a case of the game completely changing the direction so much that you feel it's not even worth playing. Yes there will be updates to fix it but how will they fix it? It's not the same as Abyssea and doesn't even feel the same game anymore so it was easy to quit. I am actually really happy I got this opportunity to quit though, it's come at a great time in my life because I would have to cut back how much I play anyway, but that doesn't stop me being concerned about the game and coming on here to see what's going on and the fixes SE implement.

I am sure SE will "balance" the game but I just feel this is kinda the end of the FFXI we all love. It's taken a whole new turn and become a different game in my eyes. I played for the older content which was around for years, which is now literally 100% obsolete. Previously you could still do sky gods, augment them and they would be on par or best in slot for some things and now it's all been replaced by SoA. It's great for people who are new to the game but to those of us who like to play events from AU, CoP etc have no other choice but to only focus on SoA and it isn't "that" good. Not good enough to warrant me playing it non stop with no other activities, and yes I can still do salvage etc but what's the point if everything you get from it sucks compared to easy gear you get from SoA? Imo SE have effectively killed 80% of it's game off and considering the place it's in, is suicide.

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Originally Posted by Dantedmc

If SE didn't want to cause widespread paranoia why didn't they just release the r/m/e updates at the same time as the expansion or at least post notes about the planned r/m/e changes. Just saying we plan to make them not go to waste is not really reassuring.

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This is a lesson they SHOULD have learned at the start of Abyssea, but obviously haven't.

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Originally Posted by Lotto

You probably don't own one to say that.
Most of the DDs using 85 or even 90 Empyreans are gimps that think that using a weapon with a unique weapon skills make them good, well it's not. While it's not a "game changer" it sure makes a huge difference when you face a tough ennemy. I wouldn't even think about bringing a DD like that to something like Bismarck, PW or Botulus Rex.

I don't mind they release some new weapons but do they have to destroy every relics/mythics/empyreans? This is just a slap in the face to every 99 R/M/E holders.

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Did you read my post in its entirety? 10-15% damage is the most you get from changing from a 90 empy (or equivalent) to 99. That's about 1-2 minutes off of those NMs at best (if the ENTIRE alliance upgraded from 90-99). Let's say your 90 weapon does 20k damage per NM, a 99 would do 22-23k. If you say that's a "huge difference" or "gimp" then those are your definitions, not mine. I don't want to argue semantics, that's all it's really going to boil down to.

A better argument would be that the 99 holders tend to have much better gearsets overall, instead of focusing simply on the weapon.

:mad: .................

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

As I already had the chance to write on BG, I don't think SE is doing this to "stimulate people into going to the new areas", it's not necessary and the new gear/newstuff was a motivation good enough, and they know it.
I rather think they are doing it for another reason.
Over the last year(s) Empyreal and Relics become so common they destroyed a "balance" there was within the game.
All other weapons become much less interesting because the majority of people were aiming for Relic/Empy, and we got to a point were people were required to have a mandatory R/E/M even for just being CONSIDERED for an invite (considered, not actually invited) to a lame and easy PUG.
Such a situation was a bit preposterous.

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Thank you.

The fact that every non-paper shout demands a R/M/E heavy DD belows my fucking mind. Frankly I'm glad they are hitting the reset button. They already said they are going to give R/M/E wielders something to compensate for the changes (maybe a way to transfer some of the attributes from your 99's to the new weapons, or contribute to the potency of the new ultimate weapons that will come out down the line). I find it ridiculous that people are acting like this is going to ruin the game just because THEY are late to the show with building their endgame weapons...

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Originally Posted by Fulgore

/RAGEQUIT

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All caps rage quit? <See You Again!>

itt :
1)relic or empy are only about base damage
2)item needed to enter skirmish are common drop, skirmish will drop 100% the weapon you want and you will get the max possible augment on1st try.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

75, which is why you asked "were you wielding level 69 weapons when the cap was 75?" and I replied "not 69, but 71, 72 and 73".
I don't get what your point is.

Are you trying to assume that when the level cap is X then level X gear/weapons are always gonna to be better than level X-1 gear/weapons?
If this is what you're trying to say yes, you're mostly right, but there have always been several exceptions in FFXI and there continue to be.
I still use level 54ish gear in some slots (for macros and situational stuff of course) for some jobs.
Chatoyant staff is a level 51 weapon if I recall and blah blah blah, we could go on forever but we'd enter the field of "special" items with special properties that kinda get ruled out because of their uniqueness.

The examples I provided in the first line instead were weapons with a level under the cap of the time, which in spite of that were still some among the best weapons the respective jobs could get access to. There wasn't anything particularly special about them, they were just freaking awesome, period :D


In spite of all of this, it's not the first time SE uses this approach FOR GEAR and, as a matter of fact, I don't think nobody ever whined about that because after almost 11 years people got used to the pattern and the consequent balancement.
It is though the first time this happens for weapons. There is no correspondant gear that takes as much work to be obtained as R/E/M weapons and they have always represented a "roof" over which normal weapons could never go over.
The only time they disregarded this rule was when they introduced Empyreal weapons, but it didn't last long since adjustments to Relics and Mythics came shortly after.



As I already had the chance to write on BG, I don't think SE is doing this to "stimulate people into going to the new areas", it's not necessary and the new gear/newstuff was a motivation good enough, and they know it.
I rather think they are doing it for another reason.
Over the last year(s) Empyreal and Relics become so common they destroyed a "balance" there was within the game.
All other weapons become much less interesting because the majority of people were aiming for Relic/Empy, and we got to a point were people were required to have a mandatory R/E/M even for just being CONSIDERED for an invite (considered, not actually invited) to a lame and easy PUG.
Such a situation was a bit preposterous.
I think SE is trying to make so R/E/M remain cool but a thing for "a few cool people" and not for the mass.
How they're goin to do that?
Simple.
They release new better weapons and at the same time they update only the lv99 R/E/M.
Since the majority of people have 85/90 Empy and 95 Relics, they'll have to bite the dust and get the new easy weapons.

Result? Everybody gets an upgrade, the "mandatory R/E/M" attitude will die, hardcore players with 99 R/E/M won't see their precious treasure become useless because of a subsequent update.
Done! Everybody's happy!


I'm pretty confident this is their main motivation, but while I agree it's for "the greater good" it still makes me angry they're moving so late to "repair" to a mistake done over 2 years ago. I wish there could be some other way because you can't expect people to put months of works into something to see it become useless by something that can be obtained in a couple of days and feel happy about it.

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Then it seems we agree on all accounts (except it seems that the overall nature of my statement was heavily misappropriated - probably my fault for wording it rigidly in an environment where everything will be taken literally)! My response was to a sentiment (which I interpreted) as lamenting that 90 and below weapons would not be adjusted to remain competitive (this complaint is also found in the JP forums to some degree). I don't think it's unfair to trash them just as I'm not annoyed by Shenlong's being no longer relevant (The point of my statement was that people were lucky that Empyreans at stage 85 or 90 were competitive with 99 equipment in the first place and there was no reason to expect that this would remain true, while the expectation that 99 prestige weapons remain competitive is perfectly reasonable). Melee weapons generally, unlike gear and mage weapons, necessarily scale steeply with level. However, I feel that adjusting 99 weapons (which represent a larger investment) is fair and probably necessary to sustain not only continuing interest in the game but also the in-game economy (and I think SE knows this).

Note that I said that "the expectation that 99 prestige weapons remain competitive is perfectly reasonable." There are of course, arguments for why they should not remain as such but most if not all of those reasons fall to the wayside when 99 RMEs are competing on level ground with available high-tier weapons from SoA.

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Originally Posted by Horadrim

Thank you.

The fact that every non-paper shout demands a R/M/E heavy DD belows my fucking mind. Frankly I'm glad they are hitting the reset button. They already said they are going to give R/M/E wielders something to compensate for the changes (maybe a way to transfer some of the attributes from your 99's to the new weapons, or contribute to the potency of the new ultimate weapons that will come out down the line). I find it ridiculous that people are acting like this is going to ruin the game just because THEY are late to the show with building their endgame weapons...



All caps rage quit? <See You Again!>

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The fact that 90% of the current game content is built around obtaining a R/E/M weapon doesn't concern you?

Farming dyna
Farming Salvage
Farming Abyssea weapons
Farming HMPs from VW/ cinders

Do away with those weapons being wanted and what are you left with?

Reives, Legion, and Meebles. Not to mention how most people make their money farming those things atm, and since they've completely broken the AH of all leveling items Crafting or leveling Crafting is all but impossible, or the most pointless thing in the world.

I cancelled my Sub today, there's just no point anymore, telling other ppl to like the new content or leave will only hasten FFXI's demise.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

My response was to a sentiment (which I interpreted) as lamenting that 90 and below weapons would not be adjusted to remain competitive (this complaint is also found in the JP forums to some degree). I don't think it's unfair to trash them just as I'm not annoyed by Shenlong's being no longer relevant (The point of my statement was that people were lucky that Empyreans at stage 85 or 90 were competitive with 99 equipment in the first place and there was no reason to expect that this would remain true

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Euuuuuh...
Well I wanted to say something but in the end I'm afraid you're absolutely right =/
It's just that when you act so LATE to "fix" something done in the past (that brought to the consequence of R/E being too common etc) of course people are gonna whine.

What I mean is: yes, this change in the long run will probably be good for *all of us*, not just the few cool people with afterglow cool stuff etc.
But at the same time can we really be surprised people are whining? I mean, we can all agree this is potentially quite a big kick in the nutts, no?
Now the thing is arguable for level 85/90 empies, but for level 95 Relics? They still require quite a bit of dedication to be completed, unless you have a bot that nets you 3 mils gil for you every day while you're sleeping.

I'm just saying that my mood atm is kinda stuck in between.
On one side people whining calling the end of the world blahblahblah.
On the other side cool people getting cocky and screaming "man up!" to the other ones.
Yeah lol, I'm definitely stuck somewhere in between atm :P

/foreveralone


But yeah, I guess I'll get through it with time, I'm particularly confident that if they play their cards right this change might prove a good thing for all of us, from the casual noobs to the hardcore pros.

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Originally Posted by Crusader81

Farming dyna
Farming Salvage
Farming Abyssea weapons
Farming HMPs from VW/ cinders

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Some Relic gear is still good, especially +2, so thats not entirely worthless without Relics.

Salvage II has some great gear for people to go after.

Emps are easier to make than the weapons that were just added.

VW has tons of gear worth getting, if the only reason you were doing it is for plates/cinder/dross then...

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Originally Posted by Crusader81

The fact that 90% of the current game content is built around obtaining a R/E/M weapon doesn't concern you?

Farming dyna
Farming Salvage
Farming Abyssea weapons
Farming HMPs from VW/ cinders

Do away with those weapons being wanted and what are you left with?

Reives, Legion, and Meebles. Not to mention how most people make their money farming those things atm, and since they've completely broken the AH of all leveling items Crafting or leveling Crafting is all but impossible, or the most pointless thing in the world.

I cancelled my Sub today, there's just no point anymore, telling other ppl to like the new content or leave will only hasten FFXI's demise.

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(Specific reply to quoted post):
You're allowed to like old content still. Just like people 6 months ago could farm evoliths and do avatar battles for equipment if they wanted, you will still be able to do older events if you want to. If you enjoy specific content in the game, by all means, do the content you enjoy.

(General reply to overall thread):
But a reasonable human being should understand that an MMO is an evolving game. It is foolish to get the best weapon in the game and honestly believe it will remain the best weapon forever. What if level 75 relic weapons were still the best weapon in the game? It would be boring. Everyone would have one by now and have nothing new to reach for.

If you think the new weapons are better than your current ones, don't think of it as your old weapon becoming worthless. Your old weapon is solid enough to take you that next step up to the higher one. This complaining seems as pointless to me as complaining "WHAT?! I HAVE TO KILL THINGS WITH MY WEAPON TO MAKE IT STRONGER?! I HATE TRIAL OF MAGIANS AND REFUSE TO DO IT! I QUIT THE GAME UNTIL SE RECOGNIZES MY WEAPON NEEDS TO BE BUFFED AND I DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO GET IT!"

It's a game. If SE just hands you the best stuff in the game for doing nothing, you're not actually playing the game. Go play and get your new weapons.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

(Specific reply to quoted post):
If you think the new weapons are better than your current ones, don't think of it as your old weapon becoming worthless. Your old weapon is solid enough to take you that next step up to the higher one. This complaining seems as pointless to me as complaining "WHAT?! I HAVE TO KILL THINGS WITH MY WEAPON TO MAKE IT STRONGER?! I HATE TRIAL OF MAGIANS AND REFUSE TO DO IT! I QUIT THE GAME UNTIL SE RECOGNIZES MY WEAPON NEEDS TO BE BUFFED AND I DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO GET IT!"

It's a game. If SE just hands you the best stuff in the game for doing nothing, you're not actually playing the game. Go play and get your new weapons.

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I think the overall complaint is that the relic weapons haven't been updated and improved yet, but already the new weapons are in the game and out-classing people who have put in the time/effort already. If SE were gonna add them weapons then imo they "should" have upgraded the 99 R/M/E at the same time, but of course, they didn't - hence the complaints.

People making exhaustive arguments like "IT'S A GAME AND IT SHOULD ALWAYS ADVANCE" seem to have a really selective memory and don't seem to understand that most of the hardcore endgame playerbase will do little more than grumble a little bit and more often than not actually get excited when they get their armor outdated because it offers new builds and such (Though inventory complaints are always present and always justified) but only react the way they do in this thread when it comes to the prestige weapons, because weapons are not swapped situationally nearly as much as armor is, and more importantly, there's no piece of armor that takes months of consistent play in order to obtain.

There is nothing wrong with trying to close the gap between REMs and easier to get weapons. There is a problem with adding weapons that stomp on 99 REMs when they take a fraction of the effort to obtain.

I agree that you need new things to have to keep you motivated and paying your monthly fees. But FFXI has always been good with keeping some of the older things relevant (or situational) and not completely trash all of them. They are mostly doing incremental upgrade overall in the past, or sidegrades. So the completionist will always want the new shiny things, the casuals can do without them, and everyone keep on trucking and getting more logs from those endgame events.

I do think they really did the impossible with SoA though. They created a new expansion that manage to draw so much annoyances from everyone playing it - even those people who used to put a positive spins on everything SE do. As usual, you can give SE a couple more months (end of Summer) or a year (for a decent amount of fixes and content). Or you can just unsubscribe and come back again when you deem the content is worth paying.

I'm still really positive about the game. I'm enjoying it even more now, actually. GEO was a class I've wanted for a long time and I like it more than I expected after seeing it was a buffing job instead of being like FFT GEO (granted, it is similar to FF3 GEO with buffs).

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Originally Posted by Kincard

People making exhaustive arguments like "IT'S A GAME AND IT SHOULD ALWAYS ADVANCE" seem to have a really selective memory and don't seem to understand that most of the hardcore endgame playerbase will do little more than grumble a little bit and more often than not actually get excited when they get their armor outdated because it offers new builds and such (Though inventory complaints are always present and always justified) but only react the way they do in this thread when it comes to the prestige weapons, because weapons are not swapped situationally nearly as much as armor is, and more importantly, there's no piece of armor that takes months of consistent play in order to obtain.

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And people who are being overly sensational about this whole thing seem to have selective memory when it comes to the fact that these are obviously NOT the end game weapons for SoA. Every expansion has released gear or weapons that have been significantly better than most that existed prior to it. The difference now is that SoA is the first 100% end game expansion because the game no longer has a "leveling" player base the way it used to -- so none of the gear has to cater to people below 99.

With them already citing memory issues across the board for the game, adding in a ton of limited, shitty weapons to tied people over until the inevitably epic end game weapons come out seems silly. Skirmish is this expansion's love letter to Assault -- which added tons of incredibly accessories that blew previous accessories out of the water. As missions and the actual end game event is added for SoA, I guarantee you that your truly godmode weapon will take a disgusting amount of time.

How do I know that? Where's my source? I don't need one -- SE wants to keep making money, so they need people to keep playing and in true SE form, that will very likely crop up as them forcing you to spend months and months and months grinding out some arbitrarily difficult event (an event they will balance against the Skirmish weapons, most likely so that R/M/E wielders can't just zerg-rush through it like they do with everything else.) Mythic and eventually Empyrean were designed the way they were because the was a community outcry against the difficulty of building Relics. Abyssea was designed the way it was specifically to handle the issue of leveling becoming an increasingly difficult task and to give a normalized, base end game gear goal for people since going back and coffer hunting/such is useless.

Now Empy +2 and R/M/E are treated as a base requirement for doing anything effectively -- even the new content seems to laugh at anything less than a lv.85 E/M/R (I'm using the 4th best sword for RUN right now as some of the best gear short of Thaumas for it, and can barely contribute at all in Reives the way R/M/E wielders can.) Even still, you have people with some of the best gear in the game getting completely wiped during Reives.

So I ask you, if that's how the best gear in the game is going to handle the INTRO TO ADOULIN course, what do you expect it to do against the actual end game Adoulin stuff that will come out towards the end of the story line?

Sure, they could have released something less dramatic, but honestly, I prefer they make it clear that we're moving into a whole new era of the game's life. And as we approach Year 11 of the games life -- I think its high time for that.

We can't keep spoon feeding people just because they finished old content. And I'm sorry, but Relics, Empy, and Mythics are decidingly old content.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Some Relic gear is still good, especially +2, so thats not entirely worthless without Relics.

Salvage II has some great gear for people to go after.

Emps are easier to make than the weapons that were just added.

VW has tons of gear worth getting, if the only reason you were doing it is for plates/cinder/dross then...

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I got my VW gear long ago... except for the lol weapons (done qilin over 500 times) I seriously thought ppl were exaggerating when they said they did VW battles 500, 1000 times and still didn't' have weapon, but I was only doing Qilin for a few months and my stones went from 1000+ to 500..

Since then I've obtained all the pieces I needed, but the HMPs and Cinder was a great way for me to keep making money to play and buy new things.. without that.. why bother now?

I was farming dyna, salvage, and VW and making other weapons, and honestly it was the most fun I've had playing XI, because for the 1st time my work put in= great reliable results.
I did Dyna for years, and had very little to show, I never got some pieces because of the horrible LS lot systems. So spending 6+hrs a day when off to farm all the content and in 3-4 months actually make a Relic Weapon was one of the coolest things XI had to offer.
But it appears that's over now. So.. so is my commitment to this game, there's literally nothing left to interest me.

Comparing weapons to accessories is a longshot at best and laughable at worst.

I have no idea what you are talking about. People who have organized (Usually LSs with tons of REMs around) are crushing Reives under 10 minutes if they coordinate their efforts correctly. Obviously if you play the game like it's still Abyssea you're going to get wiped. REMs are handling the new content about as effectively as they do anywhere else.

They added a bunch of easy-to-get AH weapons that have relatively cheap materials for creation. That is the correct way of closing the gap between REMs and non-REMs. The incorrect way is to make an event that has difficulty on par with Meeble Burrows and hands out weapons competitive or better than REMs.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

I have no idea what you are talking about. People who have organized (Usually LSs with tons of REMs around) are crushing Reives under 10 minutes if they coordinate their efforts correctly. Obviously if you play the game like it's still Abyssea you're going to get wiped. REMs are handling the new content about as effectively as they do anywhere else.

They added a bunch of easy-to-get AH weapons that have relatively cheap materials for creation. That is the correct way of closing the gap between REMs and non-REMs. The incorrect way is to make an event that has difficulty on par with Meeble Burrows and hands out weapons competitive or better than REMs.

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I've seen plenty of people getting destroyed in Reives with solid gear -- not everyone runs around with a swarm of LS mates at ready beckon call. Especially not the droves of formerly retired players who came back primarily for the expansion like myself.

Meanwhile, I guess the point about these just being intro weapons for the content is an irrelevancy for people? Seriously -- if the aim is that there needs to be difficulty attached to the better weapons in the game I can guarantee you that the end game weapons for Seekers won't be so easily acquired -- but at the end of the day it has been a long time coming that SE would stop allowing R/M/E weapons to be the end-all-be-all of the game. What did you expect? For them to eventually allow the tool tips for the weapons to have mile-long bonus lists?

Look - I don't mind with grindy content and repetitive tasks - as long as they are easy to get into, convenient, and very accessible and designed well. Abyssea is pretty much a grind fest, over and over, but it's fun, and it is not dead even as much as we would like and hope that it would just die. People still flocking there, to this day. Everything else is grindy as well, and people still do it. Dynamis, Voidwatch, Meeble, Neo Events, etc - all are about grind, but it goes on fast, you get decent rewards (some good, some are a bunch of logs), you get decent points, etc.

SoA however managed to create the most annoying grind ever and the worst activities that gives you very little incentive and rewards (especially after the adjustment). That is inexcusable. I have no problem for them to stretch SoA for 2-3 years, they always do this anyway, it is expected. But it's a problem when Reive manage to be the most unfun activities, despite having done Besieged, Campaign and Walk of Echoes (which is similar all you can whack battlefield).

So yeah, they better be quick with updates within a month or two, and a bunch of small updates. Lots of people start to see through the BS - and soon no one will singing praises when they figure out that you need 100k or more to enter Skirmish, and the drop are all 0.05% Random. You won't be too thrilled whacking roots for 50-70 times just to get 100k.

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Originally Posted by Horadrim

-- but at the end of the day it has been a long time coming that SE would stop allowing R/M/E weapons to be the end-all-be-all of the game. What did you expect? For them to eventually allow the tool tips for the weapons to have mile-long bonus lists?

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Yeah, you know what? actually I did. I expected the game to get minor updates, and more content designed to keep it going longer, and eventually die out as the graphics get outdated and other games become more popular, until they finally cut service and R/E/M would be forever locked at the FFXI best weapons.

OR

I expected SE to finally drop PS2 support, completely overhaul the game, enhance the graphics, servers, and update the UI, get rid of the ridiculous PS2 memory limits, overhaul the battle specs, and aim for more accessible content to reflect the fact that the game is 10 years old, and feels it and even with these changes would still need to be very accessible.

Instead

They've adjusted the game back like it's 2004, made some things accesssible, other things ridiculous, written over the old content to keep the PS2 alive, broken some jobs, buffed others, left things broken for years, fixed things that weren't broken ASAP (useless twilight scythe) I mean REALLY? They did a fast fix to make sure you couldn't use the Scythe on the one thing It was decent on, but now they're going to kill R/E/M? with content you can do with 3-6 people in 30 mins?

I wouldn't call the twilight Scythe fix ASAP, That was in the game for what, Over a year now?

I'd say something like Pets getting Samba bonuses an "ASAP" fix, fking fixed it before i knew it was a thing.