[dev1047] Thoughts/Feedback on "Legion"

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Originally Posted by Tile

Wait are you telling us every Item that drops can be bought with points too? Please tell me there are atleast some items that are only drops or points

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That highly depends, I don't like drop only because you can theoretically NEVER get your gear. With points you can always keep chipping away at it.

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With regard to loot, players can obtain loot either through trading Legion points or through the lotting system. If a lot of monsters are defeated by many players, there will be more loot dropped, which means there are more chances to obtain loot. Even if a player fails to obtain an item through lotting, that player accumulates Legion points with each run, which will allow the player to possibly trade for the item. With more players, there certainly is more competition when lotting on an item, but considering that there are more loot items dropped, the probability of obtaining an item will not drop as severely as you mentioned.

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wow......I'm actually really excited about this system now!

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

still want points handled a bit more like Campaign/Balista XP, on a contribution basis. i.e. no work=no points. As I've said numerous times I HATE leeches. If all a player is gonna do is take up space while I have to do their job AND mine in a pt/alliance then I should be getting their reward as well as mine. Otherwise, looks VERY good.

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And then healing and support jobs get screwed.

Expanding on what was said about the lot system, are you confirming that items that drop from monsters are also in fact able to be bought with legion points as well? this seems like a good idea... BUT somehow i am doubtful SE will miss out on a chance to add the few good items locked away on a free for all lotting bonanza which only spawns in a field with 36 players...so i ask, is there any chance we could get some insight/clarification on this specific question?

The idea of seeing not only drops come from a random number generator(which i hate) also coming form an effort based system(points) means even if you waste a billion hours working to try and get a said item, you can cash out your points to get it which means you are never wasting time. Which would be good but until confirmation is given i will hold back on my hopes.

It sounds like the items that drop and the items obtainable using points are one and the same, if that sentence about rewards can be taken literally. I was not expecting that.

Hearing all this stuff about Legion gives me far more hope for future end-game activities than I had previously. The "random stuff, happening randomly!" theme running deep through Voidwatch and more recently Neo-Nyzul Isle had me worried that the future would be random number generation forever.

I guess the whole thing could be torpedoed by horrid rewards, but it seems like someone would have to really screw up for that to be the case. Even situational equipment and minor upgrades feel worth pursuing if the nagging fear of going 0/457 isn't there.

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Originally Posted by detlef

And then healing and support jobs get screwed.

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not really, early on in campaign my bard was rolling in XP since every song that hit the pt gave me XP, every debuff helpped, every point of damage I cured (but not regened, XP was only for the initial cast), even sleeps. As all healers are currently capable of other things (enfeebs, buffs, etc.), contribution systems can be made to account for that. And if worse comes to worse, you ARE carrying a weapon.

But a guy who just parks his alt (or even his main) to just suck up rewards while doing nothing? yeah, the hell with him.

Legion is a system that I don't see how anyone could find faults with it. You can do it with smaller numbers, you will always be guaranteed your item (if the point system is as previously described), it's just all around a well crafted event. It's what Voidwatch's loot system should be.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Even if a player fails to obtain an item through lotting, that player accumulates Legion points with each run, which will allow the player to possibly trade for the item.

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Can you clarify something please- Does this mean the same items can be obtained from points as the ones that drop in the battle?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Can you clarify something please- Does this mean the same items can be obtained from points as the ones that drop in the battle?

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Yea what I said before him.

Legion sounds great on paper - idea wise - hope that the implementation will be as amazing. Now can we please have the point system to be added to voidwatch so that we can also have something to look forward for that activities?

Can't wait to try this one out.

Seems to Have insta agro upon enter so unless you have 2-3 tanks and a TON of DD this will be a death trap for most.
Also HQ King type mobs there from Behemoth and Aspid and Faf/nid/Jourmy/Tiamat/Vrtra Khim Even some Dverge mobs too, think all HNM type mobs are there and they do not seem to hold back.

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Originally Posted by Septimus

Why is the Dev Team so in love with large-group activities? I don't even know 36 other people who play this game anymore, and I don't want to recruit a bunch of people into a linkshell or quit my LS which has been my home for nearly 7 years just so I can join a large LS where the Leader and his friends will magically have the points to have sole lotting rights to every piece of gear. This game it too old to support large-group events anymore.

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Why so dramatic? You don't have to quit your LS or make another one. You aren't required to find 36 people to participate. I'm certain there will be enough interest that you'll be able to find a group.

Points don't accrue magically. You get them for participating. It's an event with built in DKP where you decide which items you want without some screwy priority system based on how much you suck up to an LS leader. Sounds like win to me.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

People in this thread have also expressed their disdain and/or concern, so I fail to see your point. pointing out that one or more people in this thread like the idea of the event before having participated in it is not a scientific means of gauging interest. I'd wager a majority (meaning at least 51%) of FFXI players don't even read these forums, much less post.

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I never said it was. However, it's an undisputed way to rebut your comment that you don't know anybody who is excited about the idea of needing a full alliance to do an event. After reading this thread, now you do. Don't know how to make the point clearer that you say you fail to see. People are excited about the "IDEA" (your words) of a full alliance event. Obviously, we haven't tried it yet. Are we not allowed to express excitement until we participate in something, yet you are allowed to express your disdain? :p

The viability of PUG vs set LS run also hinges on the cooldown.

Is this a one/day thing?

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Originally Posted by Septimus

Why is the Dev Team so in love with large-group activities? I don't even know 36 other people who play this game anymore, and I don't want to recruit a bunch of people into a linkshell or quit my LS which has been my home for nearly 7 years just so I can join a large LS where the Leader and his friends will magically have the points to have sole lotting rights to every piece of gear. This game it too old to support large-group events anymore.

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It's old, but it's not THAT old such that large-group events aren't viable anymore. VW proved that you can still support alliance-size events, as even in PUG's people usually won't go with less than 18. Most large LS's left still get around 25 members per event. For Legion, I'm willing to bet 18-man PUG's will be formed and the larger LS's might be able to do 36-man difficulty, perhaps inviting a few "friends of the LS" to farm Legion points.

Also, not all large LS's operate the way you described. Some are quite fair and members earn DKP through transparent means.

Alrighty, I have a couple answers to some questions I am seeing in this thread.

Dropped items/point items
The items you can receive via drops will differ from those that you can obtain by exchanging Legion points. Apologies if it was misconstrued from previous posts that they would be the same items. Essentially even if you lose a lotting battle to obtain an item, by participating in the battle and saving up points you can get a reward.

Cool down timer for re-entry
There is actually no cool down timer and as long as the area is free and you are in possession of the key-item needed to enter, you can repeat this content again and again.

Also, in regards to the specific questions on point acquisition, I am still checking with the development team and should have an answer pretty soon.

Oh the lies ; ;.... Camate how could you ; ;

I think that is what everyone really loved hearing about it lol, and that there would be some rare items in there to keep us coming.

It might still be alright, still keeping positive about it ; ;

Dreams...crushed :(

Camate would it be possible for you to check if the items you purchase with points are either :

a) Lower Quality or Higher Quality versions of the random items dropped?
Mekira Meikogai vs Mekira Toshugai for example.

b) Completely different items.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Zubis

Dreams...crushed :(

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Yea ; ;...

well, at least there is no waiting time, that's kinda nice.

Probably a stone System like vw and abyssea.

Well if the point buy items are good then it'll be ok. But if their like Assault items, largely useless, then your back to praying on the RNG gods. Also depends on what the drop rates are on the NMs inside.

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Originally Posted by Zubis

Dreams...crushed :(

Camate would it be possible for you to check if the items you purchase with points are either :

a) Lower Quality or Higher Quality versions of the random items dropped?
Mekira Meikogai vs Mekira Toshugai for example.

b) Completely different items.

Thank you.

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It sounds more like completely different items.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Dropped items/point items
The items you can receive via drops will differ from those that you can obtain by exchanging Legion points. Apologies if it was misconstrued from previous posts that they would be the same items. Essentially even if you lose a lotting battle to obtain an item, by participating in the battle and saving up points you can get a reward.

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So, the rewards are a dichotomy, exactly like Einherjar. I wonder if the same developer primarily designed both events, since they're so similar. Not that the similarity is a bad thing. Einherjar was one of my favorite things back at 75.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Cool down timer for re-entry
There is actually [SIZE="7"]no cool down timer[/SIZE] and as long as the area is free and you are in possession of the key-item needed to enter, you can repeat this content again and again.

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http://images.mylot.com/userImages/i...os/2292874.jpg

If there are only say x3 instances for 3 zones that will give us 9 zones total to use (guessing). I think there should be a timer to prevent overcrowding and hoarding of a zone by people. Remember not everyone has time to wait on others to try low man runs and etc. Even if its a 1 or 2 hour re-entry after a run would suffice in allowing more people access to these zones. Unless SE is making it true instanced than this won't matter.

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Originally Posted by Washburn

Probably a stone System like vw and abyssea.

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no, you just pay the fee and get the thingymajig to enter. you can't keep paying to stay inside, it's only 30 minute time slots.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Alrighty, I have a couple answers to some questions I am seeing in this thread.
Cool down timer for re-entry
There is actually no cool down timer and as long as the area is free and you are in possession of the key-item needed to enter, you can repeat this content again and again.

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I can see it Now only 1 group can be inside at a time, 4 hours after update Sauromugue Champaign will be closed down for Emergency Maintenance. and moogles will be Stationed around the area telling us to play nice. not trying to be mean to you Camate. Just we've seen this happen many times before.

Can you Send word to the Dev team now to expect this. as awesome as no cool down timer is its going to cause issues. Maybe make its 1 -2 hour cool down to help ease the congestion atleast for the first week.

No cooldown...

My inner Admiral Ackbar is trying to tell me something.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

well, at least there is no waiting time, that's kinda nice.

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Depends. If it's too easy to get in regularly, and one group will lock the zone out, you'll be struggling to get in with competing parties. Guess it depends on how many instances of the battlefield they'll allow.

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Originally Posted by Tile

Can you Send word to the Dev team now to expect this. as awesome as no cool down timer is its going to cause issues. Maybe make its 1 -2 hour cool down to help ease the congestion atleast for the first week.

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Or perhaps it could have a dynamic timer system. If there is no congestion, there is no cool down on entry. If there are so many groups in an area that people are fighting to get in, there will be a timer of one hour to reenter, with flexible amounts of time in between depending on how full the areas are.

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There is actually no cool down timer and as long as the area is free and you are in possession of the key-item needed to enter, you can repeat this content again and again.

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"You cannot enter the area, it is currently in use" :D It'll be like trying to get into Shiryu during blunt for the first 3-4 months.

Always amusing to see 36 dead bodies plop out of a zone.

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I can see it Now only 1 group can be inside at a time

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More than one group can be in a battlefield at a time, and there are three battlefields.

This system is just like WoE. Isn't the reason alot of people don't do Walk of Echoes is because of the one hour cool down? Now you guys are asking for a cool down on a new event???

The reason no one does WoE is because the loot is garbage.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

The reason no one does WoE is because the loot is garbage.

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Not garbage. just very poor drop rates and not worth the effort since you actually need a lot of other people to do it with ti win.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

The reason no one does WoE is because the loot is garbage.

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That and the death-ga aggro / Link Bull Sh!t that happens.

This event looks really fun! I'm excited that there is no cool down too. Sure it might be super crowded for the first few months, but after a while it should die down just like everything else. I'm also very happy about the point system, and just hope that the items you can get are at least on par with the items that are dropped within the event.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

This system is just like WoE. Isn't the reason alot of people don't do Walk of Echoes is because of the one hour cool down? Now you guys are asking for a cool down on a new event???

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The reason I don't do WoE is because random people who wander into the zone have a 99% chance to be epic retards who don't care about the rest of the group's goals or strategy and just want to throw garudas at shit and link everything.

This is nothing like WoE.