Fundamental Game Play Issues

I feel as though I have just shaken a magic 8-ball with only "My sources say no." printed on the die 20 times.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

Blinking: You said its not possible to have it so ppl dont blink. If a few people living at home in their moms basement can figure out this stuff then maybe you should hire them.

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People have also found away to bypass the JA and spell lock while living in their home, SE with paid programs should be able to figure it out in 2hrs, even quicker if they look at the code on those "bots".

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Tractor: lame excuse.

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It'd be a quicker fix to make it so they treat tractor as a conflux rather than zoning, change the position to a predefined position (the caster that has to be in an ideal spot in order to cast) rather than recompiling a zone, again free lance bot makers have found away to bypass this issue, SE could do the same thing ...
*not saying i use or condone bots just pointing out that you can find this with a google search like "ffxi position hacking bot" or "ffxi no wait ja bot", i've been in endgame shells with people who swear by them on the third party chat server but you go by a code where you dont stab people in the back :p

leads me to wonder, if the only reason why they ban people from doing this is because they can't do it themselves, if they bypass the pol and use, of say, a lua based thing (oh my getting a dev team of 5 people) like wow they could add these themselves!

ALSO too far away from mob when you ws = 0 tp... this is pointless, you dont loose ammo if you're too far away to shoot and you dont loose mp when you're too far away to cast :p

There's a difference between a ToS-voiding hack that breaks every other update on a platform not bound by limitations, and getting this stuff to work on PS2/360 also which already has memory-leak issues.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

There's a difference between a ToS-voiding hack that breaks every other update on a platform not bound by limitations, and getting this stuff to work on PS2/360 also which already has memory-leak issues.

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PS2/360 have memory leak issues?

Too bad there isnt a way to add ram to the systems via the expansion bays, though you could change the PS2 works via a different post boot OS on the platforms so it would accept more ram/larger image sizes. The only thing that would be done is altering a dead system to play a constantly updating game... though it would be cheaper to get a computer with more ram and a monitor at that point also to get a 0.01$ control adaptor from ebay(With 3$ shipping) to make the game practically the same... but god forbid you make the players pay for content...

Ok those I don't care so much about.

SPELL LOCK FIX IT

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

There's a difference between a ToS-voiding hack that breaks every other update on a platform not bound by limitations, and getting this stuff to work on PS2/360 also which already has memory-leak issues.

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Parsers break every update too. That's not because they're unreliable, but simply because memlocs change when the game is updated. Considering SE would be the one making the updates, there wouldn't be a memloc sorting issue.

That said, I don't think memory leak is the word you are looking for =/ but it's a fair point that the inferior console race can't be expected to keep up with the advancements of the PC master race.

I agree with everything the OP said. Those issues show both the age of the game and, worse, the horrible attitude the original team had towards players when the population seemed like it would never stop growing. Now, the current team is stuck with all the lazy and the "If you don't like it, quit" things the previous team did. Buff/Cure lock is a particular pet peeve along with the paralysis item loss issue.

Tractor:
Your client fundamentally does two things:
1) Displays information from the server
2) Tells the server your updated position/what you did.
You can (and bots do) simply change your position in the zone. It's not, "Oh man, this would be really hard to implement on PS2." It's, "I changed it and now it's done." Changing the POS variable is one of the only functions the client has. It's entirely capable of doing it. The client also knows the place that tractors is being cast from, because it's necessarily within 20 yalms (casting range), so just have the client set its new position to the caster's position. It only works while dead and without reraise up, so it isn't like people could exploit it to undetectably POS hack. You don't believe me? Think about how Draw-in works. If Tractor was just Draw-in for dead people, it would be perfect.

The only reason to leave it this way is if SE fears people will somehow abuse it from a balance standpoint to move really quickly through a daisy-chain of tractor casters. I'm not sure exactly what the benefit of that would be (maybe actually getting to the top of Tor before your stone grows dark?), but this is the only real reason I could see.



As far as TOS-breaking to circumvent the issues that, until now, we've pretty much agreed plague the game... I don't know, it's like doing a slow roll through a stop sign past midnight in a sleepy neighborhood while you're driving back to your house. Technically against the law, but your life is slightly improved and no one is any the wiser.

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Originally Posted by Rya

Theory
All I can think is that would be too taxing to perform this check for all other types of communication (say, shout, party, etc) because of the sheer volume of chat. But if system resources weren't an issue, it seems they could use the "tell routine" to check if other types of chat are headed for "zoning recipients"

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There would be ways around it, but I think it's a design choice that it currently doesn't work. It was probably one price they were willing to pay for not having to deal with a solution for it.

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Originally Posted by Sevvy

Gonna break apart some of your concerns. Not trying to be rude, just things that you can do yourself to remedy them:

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You're not breaking apart anything. Every single thing you criticized was either misunderstood from the OP, ignorant of the actual problem or just plain wrong. Except for two things, which were just your opinion, but those were still disagreeing with the majority (and common sense).

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Originally Posted by Xellith

Overall Camate I am disappoint.

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This sums up FFXI as of late.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

The only reason to leave it this way is if SE fears people will somehow abuse it from a balance standpoint to move really quickly through a daisy-chain of tractor casters. I'm not sure exactly what the benefit of that would be (maybe actually getting to the top of Tor before your stone grows dark?), but this is the only real reason I could see.

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That's true, however, there's plenty of quests in the game, where key items break or get lost upon death, so changing it to that shouldn't be an issue.

To people saying these problems have existed for years, why are we only complaining now? Well, several reasons. For once, no. People have been complaining for years, just without an official forum, there was no decent way to get the word out. All of these things have been annoying the shit out of me (and everyone) since day one.

Secondly, this isn't the same game anymore. It's not the same time anymore. FFXI faces distinction. There is a lot more competition out these days, and SE is losing serious amounts of customers. They need to go with the times and look at what players want. SE needs to consider what will keep more players or get more new players playing: More pointless "content" (I use that term loosely), which offers little to no reward, or making the game actually playable. Even if they fixed it now it would be very late and they will have lost tons of customers to an unplayable game, but if they wait longer it will just get worse (for them).

And lastly, we complain because we have to. Screaming loud enough is the only thing that seems to have any kind of effect on them. And it will not, never, ever, get better until SE actually gets of their lazy asses and does what the playerbase wants them to.

It's shocking how long this game has survived with the company's current motto of "Fuck the players, we know best". Because it's wrong, they don't know best. SE doesn't know their own game at all and they've proven that, time and again. They know nothing of MMORPGs, nothing of coding (apparently) and nothing of business strategies.

This, on the other hand, proves what tremendous potential FFXI has. Despite so many sinister acts of the company, it was largely successful and still is to some degree. I still call it the best MMORPG I know, because it is, because these elements that piss us off aren't all what there is to the game. However, this underlying strength of FFXI will not keep it afloat forever. These unnecessary flaws have cost the game (and the company) dearly, both in players/revenue as in image. They don't realize how important a good image is in the MMORPG market especially. That's the reason why FFXIV will never be successful, because it had a very troubled start. It does not matter how good they will make it, this first impression pretty much killed any future prospects the game had.

And finally, SE really needs to drop the "Holier than thou" act they have going. Don't pretend to be smart, you're not. Don't pretend you're fooling anyone, you're not. What we want, more than anything else, is honesty. Don't feed us lies about why you can't implement something when we know for a fact that you can. Don't tell us you'll fix something, then you don't (like losing TP on "too far away" messages, which you said you're looking into over two updates ago (and which should also be added to OP)). Respect your players enough not to lie to them, then we can start improving the game together, in everyone's benefit.

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Originally Posted by Juilan

*not saying i use or condone bots just pointing out that you can find this with a google search like "ffxi position hacking bot" or "ffxi no wait ja bot", i've been in endgame shells with people who swear by them on the third party chat server but you go by a code where you dont stab people in the back :p

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I guess if you had a friend who you knew was a criminal you'd look the other way too, as well.

You don't condone them yet you come here and quote two precise search strings to make it easier for people to find them.

/clap

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

I guess if you had a friend who you knew was a criminal you'd look the other way too, as well.

You don't condone them yet you come here and quote two precise search strings to make it easier for people to find them.

/clap

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im just saying fixes are out there for their issues

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

I guess if you had a friend who you knew was a criminal you'd look the other way too, as well.

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If they smoke pot, sure. If they're a serial killer, no. Generalizations never work.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

You don't condone them yet you come here and quote two precise search strings to make it easier for people to find them.

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He was pointing out how easy it is for any retard to get these without any kind of effort. It's not like he gave them a secret code with which to get that stuff.

How about when you're inventory is full and a stackable item drops of which you already have several (Thinking mostly of Beastmen/Kindred Seals etc and Crystals and whatnot), but instead of dropping directly to your stack, it requires an extra inventory space.

Never made sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

SPELL LOCK FIX IT

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You mean remove it? As it did not exist in the past. It was added as a counter measure.

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Originally Posted by Sylvr

How about when you're inventory is full and a stackable item drops of which you already have several (Thinking mostly of Beastmen/Kindred Seals etc and Crystals and whatnot), but instead of dropping directly to your stack, it requires an extra inventory space.

Never made sense to me.

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This is probably not fixable under the current state of the codebase. (Yes, I'm aware of what that says about the state the code is in. I stand by it anyway.)

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hi everyone! Thanks for writing up this list containing a TON of feedback.

A few of these issues have already been brought up in separate threads (from a while back) and have received responses from the development team:

Blinking:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ll=1#post64481

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We all know that the blinking issue has been fixed with very widespread 3rd party software. It can be fixed. There are many options for doing so.

Camate please pass along the /gearlock idea posted previously in the "Vanity slots" thread to the devs in regards to fixing the blinking problem.

It's very simple and a breeze to implement. It would just be a simple command that, when turned on, locks a character's visible gear to whatever they're wearing when the command was used. The /gearlock'ed player can then switch gear all they want and would never "blink," so targets wouldn't be unlocked, people targeting the gear-swapper wouldn't lose them, and it would fix other things like BLU self-skillchains not appearing when triggered immediately after a swap.

It carries the added bonus of allowing a player to lock in a fashionable set of gear in which to do battle (thereby giving new purpose to the game's many, many unusable pieces of gear). To prevent any potential issues, /gearlock can simply deactivate upon zoning or changing jobs.

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Originally Posted by Puck

It would just be a simple command that, when turned on, locks a character's visible gear to whatever they're wearing when the command was used.

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Dose this mean I can run around on whm and look like a blm? After all, I wouldn't blink when I changed jobs. Also, and I think this is an important part to note. What would this do when examined?

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Dose this mean I can run around on whm and look like a blm? After all, I wouldn't blink when I changed jobs. Also, and I think this is an important part to note. What would this do when examined?

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Character data is flushed and reloaded on zoning, so after job change should see what they have on now (unless you change at a Nomad Moogle in a visible zone). /check can just show the gear they're actually wearing.

However, there's workarounds for that too. Simple let the character "blink" and reload new gear as soon as the target on it is removed. So while I target someone, let them appear in the same gear, but when target is off, allow them to blink as much as they want.

So realy it should be more of a "hold feature" on bahalf of the targeter and not the blinker in question.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Dose this mean I can run around on whm and look like a blm? After all, I wouldn't blink when I changed jobs. Also, and I think this is an important part to note. What would this do when examined?

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You didn't read the whole post, did you? Like the last sentence, for example.

The plugin you are talking about and the feature you are suggesting are different. The plugin prevents gear swaps client side the feature you are suggesting would require the server not sending gear swap info to other clients based on your preference. I can see how that might be a little annoying to code. The easiest thing for them to do would be to take a page from the plugins book and allow for a setting that prevented blinking while a character was targeted. It could all be done client side and it is clearly possible because it's been done already. It would be a little wonky if for instance you were targeting a NIN using a GK and he switched back to DWing resulting in him swinging his GK about 100 times a second until you were no longer targeting him. Honestly though... who freaking cares. Losing target on blink is just as wonky.

How about the Auction House? It drives me crazy that all the equipment is listed in no particular order at all. Couldn't it be listed alphabetically? Or by level for things that can be equipped would be better. It seems so haphazard and you just have to scroll through everything to find the item you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by Feynman

How about the Auction House? It drives me crazy that all the equipment is listed in no particular order at all. Couldn't it be listed alphabetically? Or by level for things that can be equipped would be better. It seems so haphazard and you just have to scroll through everything to find the item you're looking for.

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You know there's a Sort option on every single section of the AH right?

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

You mean remove it? As it did not exist in the past. It was added as a counter measure.

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FIX IT NOW

when executing commands using <t> while just typing, i hit <T> a lot and have to type the command twice, couldn't both be a viable option?

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Originally Posted by Phafi

when executing commands using <t> while just typing, i hit <T> a lot and have to type the command twice, couldn't both be a viable option?

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I'm cursed with this too, along with ,T> ,t> <t. <T. and <JTIUOHJI:LK>

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Originally Posted by Phafi

when executing commands using <t> while just typing, i hit <T> a lot and have to type the command twice, couldn't both be a viable option?

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I miss the days when we didn't even need the <t> at all, but SE patched it so you had to explicitly state <t> due to something involving stopping botters, but lord knows that did diddly squat to help, and made legit users' life hell in the process.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

You know there's a Sort option on every single section of the AH right?

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Well this is awkward! I've been playing this game since it released on ps2 and never noticed that...I apparently need to check that out. :/

Getting a little more job specific, there's a glitch with bard songs where if you put 2 songs up, then replay one of those 2 songs before the original has less than 2 minutes of duration left, your song will have no effect. Kinda sucked when I hit level 95 and wanted to use marcato for the first time, I had just finished giving marches, realized I now have marcato, used night/troub/marcato >> victory march >> no effect. Marcato was wasted, nightingale and troubadour were wasted because I didn't have time to put a different song on the DDs and then redo marches.

Also, I second the fact that the game UI is too picky about upper case letters. I can't imagine a case where you would want seperate commands for <t> and <T>. Hell, I miss back in the day when <t> was assumed if you didn't specify a target because I type <T> so frequently.

How about having to zone for certain repeatable quests, why do some repeatable quests need you to re-zone to complete while others do not? Doing quests in some abyssea zones which require you to re-zone is frustrating beyond belief.

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Originally Posted by Molech

How about having to zone for certain repeatable quests, why do some repeatable quests need you to re-zone to complete while others do not? Doing quests in some abyssea zones which require you to re-zone is frustrating beyond belief.

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They said in the past they were going to address the need for zoning for repeatable Abyssea quests................but then nothing came of it.

Is low on their giant list of things to do I guess.

One thing not on the list that really drives me nuts is the delay you have after a failed spell or some items. Example, if you are timing ichi, a lot of times you have to let the mob get a free round because the game does not let you recast it right away.

About lost loot: Is there a reason why I need 4 free spots when 4 items from one monster that all stack? I even had LS mates auto lost jewels even after having an insane amount of room like 70/80.

The rest I agree with. I think it is sloppy programing or the ps2 limtation excuse.

The only one I disagree with is the Collision Detection one. It is annoying at times but I think it is silly to be ghosts at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

Blinking: You said its not possible to have it so ppl dont blink. If a few people living at home in their moms basement can figure out this stuff then maybe you should hire them.

Cruor buffs: Good stuff

Tractor: lame excuse.

Overall Camate I am disappoint.

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agree^

I have an idea to fix Tractor and I am sure it is cheap too.

Remove stones and time for abyssea,(no visitant status) there is NO NEED for it!

Ranged auto attack would be the best damn thing ever.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

Ranged auto attack would be the best damn thing ever.

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What's wrong with an /ra <t> <wait x> (repeat x6) macro?

Would be no different from an auto-attack for ranged since you'd have to sit still the entire time otherwise you'll interupt your aim.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

What's wrong with an /ra <t> <wait x> (repeat x6) macro?

Would be no different from an auto-attack for ranged since you'd have to sit still the entire time otherwise you'll interupt your aim.

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If your goal is to shoot as fast as possible rather than just shoot without hitting a button a lot, you run into a couple of issues with this type of macro:

Rapid Shot.

Difficulty of getting the delay between shots exactly right.

So we're to assume an auto-attack range would just completely ignore the cooldown/delay before initiating any form of action right after/during an attack like it is with melee weapons?

Because integer wait values always match the delay exactly 100% of the time. Always.
</sarcasm>

being able to move and shoot would be good too.

I'm pretty sure all the animation locks are just to keep us from sliding around. They prioritized graphics over gameplay.

Newsflash guys: It's 2011 and the game looks like ass because it's approaching a decade old. Let us slide around.

More irritating issues:

1) The way that in certain situations, the camera will go into some sort of spasm, rapidly switching back and forth between two positions multiple times per second. Apparently, it's trying to get further away from a solid surface and failing amazingly at it.

2) The way that, if you are pressing up or down to change target between party or alliance members, if the player you are trying to move the cursor to is at a certain distance, the cursor will "whiff" back to where it started. (If they are close, you can target them fine, if they are far away, the cursor skips over them entirely, but there's a strange middle range where they become a sort of bizarre cursor-obstacle.)

3) Why can't we just enter numbers for our AH bid/selling price directly with the number keys?

4) Along the same lines as "Why do we need free inventory space to accept items we have partial stacks of?", I ask, "Why do we need a free inventory space to accept gil when gil never goes into our inventory to begin with?"

5) Spurious spell/ranged attack interrupts! You know, when you run up to casting range, stop, start casting a spell... then lose it for no apparent reason. The actual reason is that the packet telling the server about your character's movement was delayed slightly and received by the server after the packet telling it to start casting. However, if each packet were numbered sequentially, and the server code was changed such that a movement packet with a number lower than the packet that initiated the spellcasting/ranged attack were simply silently ignored, this problem would be solved.

Oh, and about the annoying and ridiculous way that we can chase a mob, and not hit it, while the reverse is not true... All that's required to fix that is get rid of the collision detection, which causes other annoyances anyway! You see, when you are chasing a mob, you can't attack it because you can't catch it, and you can't catch it because you keep bumping into it, but you are really bumping into where the client thinks the mob is, which is actually where it was several hundred milliseconds ago.