A Simple Request from Thieves: An upgrade to Thief's Knife.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

even back up just barely within melee range to force the Thief out of range.

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Galka tanks are pro at this.

The greatest TA dodge in my humble opinion is the super jump dodge. It not only accomplishes the dodge but also proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they just did it because they hate you since they could have just waited for you to TA and then super jumped to lose hate.

I recently had a NIN back up to a pond so I couldn't TA him. Not on purpose, but still >.>
He moved when I pointed out that I can't swim^^

And some players are now getting so used to letting you Sneak Attack the mob, that they will constantly try to be on the opposite side of the mob from you, even if they just saw you use trick attack before they engaged the mob.

I've discovered that there's also a Sneak Attack dodge that other players excell at in areas like dynamis where you roam around killing mobs (like the TE mobs for example). As you approach a mob that is facing away from you, you hit sneak attack and run up to it, knowing full well that as you reach ~6' from the mob, someone's going to hit it with a ranged attack, or voke it so it turns to face you ><

Either way, I'm sure my dogs find it hilarious to see me yelling at my laptop every time I play thf in a pt with at least 1 other melee.

putting thf knife into the trial pool would be a great idea but no i wont agree with add th2 on the one item would make it crazy and annoying to aquire as for example if it requires kill 10000 lizards ppl would live in valley or sorrow for ever making ever lizard pop like an nm claim would put alot of ppl off. maybe they can in crease the dmg or amount of hits i.e
@80 2-3 hits
@85 2-4
@90 2-5
@95 2-5 dmg +5
@99 2-8 all this with th1 would be nice

I don't think they'll ever turn THF's knife into a Kraken Club... that is bordering absurd.

Also, Theres not a single trial in the game, even pre-Relic trials, that required 10,000 of something. Further, Those trials you can team up on. Also theres plenty of Lizard mobs in Abyssea to kill as well.

Though, we've moved away from the trial idea... it has its flaws :\

I still can't see them making an exception when every other trial weapon was either designed for the trials or was a relic/mythic.

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Originally Posted by FANCY60

putting thf knife into the trial pool would be a great idea but no i wont agree with add th2 on the one item would make it crazy and annoying to aquire as for example if it requires kill 10000 lizards ppl would live in valley or sorrow for ever making ever lizard pop like an nm claim would put alot of ppl off. maybe they can in crease the dmg or amount of hits i.e
@80 2-3 hits
@85 2-4
@90 2-5
@95 2-5 dmg +5
@99 2-8 all this with th1 would be nice

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Man, and I thought my joke was an exercise in dark humor.

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Originally Posted by FANCY60

putting thf knife into the trial pool would be a great idea but no i wont agree with add th2 on the one item would make it crazy and annoying to aquire as for example if it requires kill 10000 lizards ppl would live in valley or sorrow for ever making ever lizard pop like an nm claim would put alot of ppl off. maybe they can in crease the dmg or amount of hits i.e
@80 2-3 hits
@85 2-4
@90 2-5
@95 2-5 dmg +5
@99 2-8 all this with th1 would be nice

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People with ideas like yours should be banned from "posting ideas", because people read them and go "LOOOOOL" and forget about anything. Dont ask for a mile when all you need is an inch, otherwise no ones going to listen.

No wonder devs never listen. 8 hit Thief Knife ..... I just.........

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

No wonder devs never listen. 8 hit Thief Knife ..... I just.........

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...came?

;p

Karbuncle, I don't care if I farm in dynamis with my thief knife in my off hand. I get where your coming from, to me it is an acceptable sacrifice in order to get th6 im giving up tp because of the gear swap. Blms sacrifice tp in order to switch staves for optimal nuking (tp is given to blms when they nuke from the job ability Occult Acumen, while probaly 99% of all blms fail to take advantage of this ja and myself is included it is still a trade off that we accept), granted tp means nothing to blm and alot more to a thief but it is what it is. You want th6, use the knife, you dont, you get th5. I dont like the tp trade off from switching back to my dd or eva sub weapon after I apply treasure hunter 6, it's just that I disagree because I see it as an acceptable trade off that's part of the job.

PS- While we disagree here I wouldn't be upset if the knife gets an upgrade. I just dont want to see it full timed 24/7 unless a person is farming, and in the case of farming its acceptable to either lose tp from a gear swap or to just full time the knife- its what you have to do to in order to get th6. Now im a new monk so I may be wrong, but I trade out some haste/stat gear if im using a tanking/counter stance set for acc/eva, these are the choices that are to be made and the trade offs involved.

Actually i wouldnt mind the raider's knife idea if the damage output was reduced to say 35 (this makes it much better than tk and keeps pace with the new level increases but also makes it slighlty less optimal than other dd knives and maintains its balance). I'd alos like to see that in order to acquire it you need a tk to pop the nm that drops the raiders knife, by trading the tk to the ??? that pops the nm that drops the new knife. Since most if not all thieves own a tk, this wont be a problem and wont impact the economy as much if the new knife drop rate is decent.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

Karbuncle, I don't care if I farm in dynamis with my thief knife in my off hand. I get where your coming from, to me it is an acceptable sacrifice in order to get th6 im giving up tp because of the gear swap. Blms sacrifice tp in order to switch staves for optimal nuking (tp is given to blms when they nuke from the job ability Occult Acumen, while probaly 99% of all blms fail to take advantage of this ja and myself is included it is still a trade off that we accept), granted tp means nothing to blm and alot more to a thief but it is what it is. You want th6, use the knife, you dont, you get th5. I dont like the tp trade off from switching back to my dd or eva sub weapon after I apply treasure hunter 6, it's just that I disagree because I see it as an acceptable trade off that's part of the job.

PS- While we disagree here I wouldn't be upset if the knife gets an upgrade. I just dont want to see it full timed 24/7 unless a person is farming, and in the case of farming its acceptable to either lose tp from a gear swap or to just full time the knife- its what you have to do to in order to get th6. Now im a new monk so I may be wrong, but I trade out some haste/stat gear if im using a tanking/counter stance set for acc/eva, these are the choices that are to be made and the trade offs involved.

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SO you don't care if you do shit damage and die a lot as long as a random number that does virtually nothing appears on the screen once in a while? Great! Your invited to none of my runs.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

Actually i wouldnt mind the raider's knife idea if the damage output was reduced to say 35 (this makes it much better than tk and keeps pace with the new level increases but also makes it slighlty less optimal than other dd knives and maintains its balance). I'd alos like to see that in order to acquire it you need a tk to pop the nm that drops the raiders knife, by trading the tk to the ??? that pops the nm that drops the new knife. Since most if not all thieves own a tk, this wont be a problem and wont impact the economy as much if the new knife drop rate is decent.

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Get TK, pop NM, get new knife, go to auction house, buy TK again. Now you have 2 daggers.

If he's talking about the Raider's Knife i suggested, in this thread, and in my OP.

Its "Treasure Hunter +1" bonus is a Latent effect only active when not wielding a Thief's Knife. So if you did what you described you'd be wasting a dagger.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

Now im a new monk so I may be wrong, but I trade out some haste/stat gear if im using a tanking/counter stance set for acc/eva, these are the choices that are to be made and the trade offs involved.

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You are wrong.

Ive never seen so many trolls in one tread. I'm not wrong about monk, if I am than post what you would use here. Educate me, help a new monk out, dont just post garbage comments and leave. Anyone can post a comment and not back it up, or mock others without contributing to the debate. I didnt see you suggestiong better. Spank, the fact that you felt you had to be nasty and comment on such a harmless post of mine where I stated I was a new monk shows me that you have no real value to contribute and your only purpose is to insult others. Were you that bullied in High School, or are you still attending? FYI Chralie Sheen is a jerk and not a very good role model. Change your ways before its too late, I'll pray for you.

Its obvious this is not a discussion, some of you are trolling here (very sad), all I see are hate posts, talking shit on peoiple that disagree with you, and a general attempt to belittle others in your own foolish self-absorbed "I'm better than you" 3rd grade attitude. Sad. Your failed attempts to insult those who disagree with you only show that you have no class.

Frankreynolds, your the king of trolls here. Your previous post (not the last one) almost prompted me to respond than, but I thought better of it because I wanted to believe it was just a one time rude remark and I'd leave it at that. Regretfully, after looking at the posts in here and your latest comment, I see your just an ignorant and not worth my time after this.

To the ones who are crude and rude, you know who you are. Its a shame that people like yourselfs were given mouths to speak but never learned proper manors. People shouldn't speak ill of others the first time they meet them. Also, dont open your mouth just because you can unless your contributing to a discusiion. Shame on you trolls, no wonder people leave this game they probably are sick and tired of dealing with individuals like yourselves which have nothing better to do than pick fights and cause trouble. I find some comments in this log seriously childish. Go grow a real pair and start being real men.

Because I dont feed trolls this is my first and last post to those en said angry dwarves that can't stand someone else with a different or disagreeable idea to theirs. Thank God your a nobody in the real world or we'd be more screwed than we already are.

*If your not responding to other people's posts in a rude or condescending manor like Spank and Frank than this message is not directed at you. Please disreguard. To all others besides the intended audience (the troll group) who read this post, I'm sorry you have to see this but it had to be said. I've held my tongue long enough. If you show no respect for others than I have no respect for you and will treat you with disdain.

The raider's knife being suggested by Karbuncle is rare/ex, this would prevent people from making a profit off it (at least in the auction house sense where I understand it was suggested that one could buy a thieves knife and then sell the raider's knife on the auction house and then repurchase a thieves knife and repeat) and disable wielding two of the weapon. Also the latent on the knife prevents thieves from using the orginal thief's knife for treasure hunter and this, and allows only one treasure hunter+1 weapon equiped at one time to have it's treasure hunter active.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

Ive never seen so many trolls in one tread. I'm not wrong about monk, if I am than post what you would use here. Educate me, help a new monk out, dont just post garbage comments and leave. Anyone can post a comment and not back it up, or mock others without contributing to the debate. I didnt see you suggestiong better. Spank, the fact that you felt you had to be nasty and comment on such a harmless post of mine where I stated I was a new monk shows me that you have no real value to contribute and your only purpose is to insult others. Were you that bullied in High School, or are you still attending? FYI Chralie Sheen is a jerk and not a very good role model. Change your ways before its too late, I'll pray for you.

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Your accuracy should be capped at 95% in a typical haste TP set against stuff you would counter-tank, and you'd be better off changing a constant such as food if it is not. I recommend Pizza +1 over Sushi unless you're fighting something really evasive. At any rate, if your hit-rate is capped at 95% as it should be than more accuracy isn't going to help your counter rate.

As for the evasion gear, that's only useful if you're soloing or if your healer has coarsely ground 80/20 beef where his or her brain once lay. So, you can maybe open up some inventory space there.

Well, assuming that you're level 90 and stuff. Everything is situational, but I hope this has been helpful in some way. Honestly, you weren't too far off in this case and it's cool that you went to the effort. Keep punching stuff!

I didn't feel that I had to be nasty, however, I did actively choose to be in this situation. You consistently suggest changes to FFXI which indicate an inadequate understanding of game mechanics and would make the game less pleasant for many people. I don't mind the former bit, Final Fantasy XI is just a game and it's not like the in-game stuff is terribly informative. The way it leads into the latter bit really grates my gonad, though.

If someone said he could fix your car by gluing a dead cat to the head-rest of the driver's seat, how would you address him even if he were sincere and meant well?

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

Frankreynolds, your the king of trolls here. Your previous post (not the last one) almost prompted me to respond than, but I thought better of it because I wanted to believe it was just a one time rude remark and I'd leave it at that. Regretfully, after looking at the posts in here and your latest comment, I see your just an ignorant and not worth my time after this.

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Really? You post about how Thief Knife is fine how it is.... and then in your next post your mad because I didn't jump on board with the 8 hit Thief Knife?

OK, so instead of "trolling" and saying that I'm mean.... Explain to me why you think that an 8 hit Thief knife as described by fancy is a reasonable upgrade. Why should we think this makes sense. Why should I not laugh at that idea?

After your done with that, go ahead and explain why you think that that idea is compatible with your belief that swapping Thief Knife is fine how it is.

Because I'm not OK with how Thief Knife is now, and I believe People who are OK with substandard damage are bad for the job image.

Well, thank you for the constructive feedback. Spank, I spoke with a mnk in my ls recently and he told me basically what you just said, except I appreciate the food input.

Frank, I appreciate your last post it opens the floor up to discussion. Im not sure if you read my other posts, theres 5 of them, heres some of what was said:

I don't care if I farm in dynamis with my thief knife in my off hand. I get where your coming from, to me it is an acceptable sacrifice in order to get th6 im giving up tp because of the gear swap or the shitty thief knife tp gain. Blms sacrifice tp in order to switch staves for optimal nuking (tp is given to blms when they nuke from the job ability Occult Acumen, while probaly 99% of all blms fail to take advantage of this ja and myself is included it is still a trade off that we accept), granted tp means nothing to blm and alot more to a thief but it is what it is. You want th6, use the knife, you dont, you get th5. I dont like the tp trade off from switching back to my dd or eva sub weapon after I apply treasure hunter 6, it's just that I disagree because I see it as an acceptable trade off that's part of the job.

I wouldn't be upset if the knife gets an upgrade. I just dont want to see it full timed 24/7 unless a person is farming, and in the case of farming its acceptable to either lose tp from a gear swap or to just full time the knife- its what you have to do to in order to get th6.

I like the idea of a Raider's knife, I guess at this point thats almost what is suggetsed by the tread poster. So in summary I'm saying I dont like the thief knife but I accept it for th6 trade off, if it gets upgraded or replaced as suggested in this thread I just dont want to see it as a powerful universal off-hand weapon, I'd prefer that it had some balance. However, at this point I have to ask SE what they think, because looking at the af3+2 feet, now i dont full time them in my haste build but they get alot of action because of the agility mod and evasion boost, and they have treasure hunter. So its possible SE is rethinking the way treasure hunter gear is being used and maybe they want to see the next generation of treasure hunter gear to be more than just a thief's knife, maybe they want it to be full timed i dont know.

have i started singing a different tune- yes, just a little. I'm allowed to reconsider my possition in whole or in part. In this case I'd be up for changes or replacement to thief knife if it wasnt done to make the new weapon over-kill.

I'm going to shamelessly repeat a point I made earlier in this thread. Keep the crappy thief knife the way it is. Just change mechanics so that you don't lose TP when swapping an off hand weapon. In addition to solving the thief's knife issue, it would bring a whole new dimension to weapon selection and the dynamics of battle for dual wielders.

Equip Kraken Club, TP to 100, Change sub weapon and WS, change back to Kraken club...

Great idea.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Equip Kraken Club, TP to 100, Change sub weapon and WS, change back to Kraken club...

Great idea.

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Yes, switch to that amazing dagger to do 5 more points of damage during WS. Clearly this idea is massively imbalanced.

I pointed out before that the only weapons that should be considered overpowered are the TP+100 Magian weapons. The solution is simple, just make that effect work only on the main hand, like with other TP bonus weapons. And honestly, considering the other possible buffs these days, even that wouldn't be the end of the world.

If you make the TP+100 weapons main hand only, you're going to piss off a lot of people who spent time on that trial.

Make a Magian trial that combines the Thief Knife and Raiders Boomerang into one throwing item. problem solved.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

If you make the TP+100 weapons main hand only, you're going to piss off a lot of people who spent time on that trial.

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True, although it doesn't seem like SE has trouble pissing off their userbase. Just look at relics.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Make a Magian trial that combines the Thief Knife and Raiders Boomerang into one throwing item. problem solved.

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Kupo! Bonjour, mademoiselle! To combine your Thief's Knife and Raider's Boomerang, bring me a Block of Yagudo Glue, a Block of Animal Glue, a Pot of Honey, a Box of Sticky Rice, and a shockingly sticky Sin of Indulgence! Itadakimasu! Kupo!

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Yes, switch to that amazing dagger to do 5 more points of damage during WS. Clearly this idea is massively imbalanced.

I pointed out before that the only weapons that should be considered overpowered are the TP+100 Magian weapons. The solution is simple, just make that effect work only on the main hand, like with other TP bonus weapons. And honestly, considering the other possible buffs these days, even that wouldn't be the end of the world.

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This.

While you will be able to fine tune WS damage by choosing the sub on the fly, the effect would not be that great over just keeping the sub used to generate the TP - the variation in stats is not that big and not that much different than stat variation achieved in other gear slots. It will, though, bring lots of variation to those who like to tinker AND allow you to dynamically use weapons for other effects, such as TH, without dramatically losing damage due to resetting your TP.

And for the 2-handers out there that will QQ, let them change grips without TP loss.

It would be too overpowered. It wouldn't be insane but being able to switch between add effect, crit, haste, pdt, str/att, dex/acc, agi/eva, TP bonus, and multi-hit would be too much. There is meant to be a trade off between stats on your offhand. You can go full damage or you can go utility. The problem with TK is that the utility isn't worth the trade off.

A higher DPS dagger with a "When Thief's Knife is not equipped: TH+1" effect is the only solution.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

It would be too overpowered. It wouldn't be insane but being able to switch between add effect, crit, haste, pdt, str/att, dex/acc, agi/eva, TP bonus, and multi-hit would be too much. There is meant to be a trade off between stats on your offhand. You can go full damage or you can go utility. The problem with TK is that the utility isn't worth the trade off.

A higher DPS dagger with a "When Thief's Knife is not equipped: TH+1" effect is the only solution.

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or you could do this:

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Make a Magian trial that combines the Thief Knife and Raiders Boomerang into one throwing item. problem solved.

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I don't think SE will like the logic of making a random Magian Trial just for thieves. SE likes groups and patterns, don't forget.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Yes, switch to that amazing dagger to do 5 more points of damage during WS. Clearly this idea is massively imbalanced.

I pointed out before that the only weapons that should be considered overpowered are the TP+100 Magian weapons. The solution is simple, just make that effect work only on the main hand, like with other TP bonus weapons. And honestly, considering the other possible buffs these days, even that wouldn't be the end of the world.

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You'd be surprised how much damage gets contributed from your offhand, its a lot more than "5 more points of damage"

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Originally Posted by Nynja

You'd be surprised how much damage gets contributed from your offhand, its a lot more than "5 more points of damage"

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Not more than from the other 13 pieces of equipment that you can swap freely. I just don't quite understand the rage, if you remove the TP Bonus, those offhand weapons have no stats that you can't get on almost every other piece of equipment. Admittedly, STR/Att Kila may also be a pretty large boost, but there's single items in other slots that do almost the same (even more, for certain jobs).

And from a logical standpoint, if you can change 13 other pieces of equipment several times a second, then changing your off hand weapon to weapon skill is not gonna break the game.

Would it boost current damage? Sure. By an insane amount? No. Now if that's good or bad you can decide for yourself. And remember, this would easily solve the current TH problem better than any suggested alternatives (maybe trials, which wouldn't happen though, as noodles pointed out before, and personally I would hate anyway).

Ok, you missed the point when I made my original statement, so I'll try again

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Just change mechanics so that you don't lose TP when swapping an off hand weapon.

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Equip Kraken Club, TP to 100, Change sub weapon and WS, change back to Kraken club...

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Do you understand the words that are commin outta my mouffff?

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Do you understand the words that are commin outta my mouffff?

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No .

Don't nobody understand the words that are coming out of yo mouth man.

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You don't have Kraken Club for Thief? Pssshhh.... GIMP!

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Can't wait to hear that.

Being able to freely switch your offhand without loosing TP would be nice, Something tells me that code is soo deep into the spaghetti code that it could never be undone.

Still think the best Solution outside of my Raider's Knife Example is limiting TH Bonus from gear to +2, So we wouldn't ever need the weapon if we had hands/feet.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

or you could do this:

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Make a Magian trial that combines the Thief Knife and Raiders Boomerang into one throwing item. problem solved.

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No, because then you can still do that trial and then get a new TK to equip in off-hand, completely NOT fixing the problem.