Salvage Gear Enhancements

One more thing I want to point out. You didn't completely revamp neo-nyzul, you adjusted the data collection so you have to go up to 100 in one felt swoop. Aside from that all you did was adjust mob levels and put new nm's in. For limbus you made new boss fights but you didnt change how the system worked. Why would you now revamp a working system when you really didn't do a full revamp to other said events of like kind.

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Up to 18 players can participate, but we are envisioning a difficulty level that can be cleared with around 6 players.

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After read this... just hope if you go with 6 man you dont need embrava and PD to win this, 18 ppl is a lot for salvage. 6 is perfect and 3 is ideal, salvaged is/used to be a event for 3-6 ppl making this 18 just sound terrible (just my thoughts)

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Originally Posted by Camate

as long as you don’t have severely bad luck,

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I double-dog dare the dev team to come up with a meaningful endgame event that doesn't rely on this.

I'm very worried about Camate's announcement.
First of all are we talking about a complete Salvage revamp? I.e. "old style" salvage won't be available anymore?
Or are we talking about ADDITIONAL Salvage zones?
It does make a difference.

Second: I'm a huge Salvage lover, but I recognize it's always been tricky/annoying to handle cells assignments and calling people. Despite how annoying it may have been to handle this, I think it was PART of what was making Salvage so fun.
It gave you the power to decide, or gave you the illusion of being ale to have a certain degree of control over what was happening in a game controlled by random numbers generatos.
Similar to what yellow, red and blue !! procs did in Abyssea. Items could still not drop, but you were given the chance to get a slight control over that too.
Making everything random to solve the issue of the original system being "frustrating" is a path that risks making things only even more frustrating and not solving anything at all.
Your party needs magic unlocked so that the WHM can heal you? But no, your DNC gets magic unlocked instead.
And so you keep killing random monsters for ages, until the random number generators unlocked everything you needed to unlock.
I see this as way more frustrating.
With the cells system you were of course relying on the random factor when it comes to drops. But you were given a certain degree of "control" over it: you could choose which cells to target to, you chould choose who to give them to.
That matters A LOT into making the system much less frustrating, imho.

On the other hand, making so the new system is "too easy" and each mob unlocks 3-4 random things on a random players is TOO MUCH.
In such a scenario you could wonder why even having things locked at start if everything is unlocked within a few kills?
What made Salvage so different, so unique, so fantastic is the lock system, the strategies you had to develop around that, the choices your group was forced to make.
In my opinion it's what made it different, fun, and challenging.
If you remove this aspect or make it trivial, Salvage won't be particularly different from any other event already in-game, aside from the fact it would drop different items of course.

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Originally Posted by Camate

*Snip*

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Knowing Square, the new gear and upgraded Salvage armors aren't going to be significantly better than what Salvage already has available. However you have a tendency to dramatically increase the difficulty for minor improvement.

Since you haven't learned yet, let me spell it out for you: Don't do that.

How hard is it for you to understand that?

I have some more information to share about the content of the Salvage higher-tier expansion.

• After warping to the next floor, a lamp will be placed for voluntary Pathos unlocking
  We will be making it possible so that each player can check the lamp and select a status to be unlocked that was unlocked in the floors prior. (In order to use the lamp, certain conditions must be fulfilled on the previous floor; however, we are planning to make the conditions easy to accomplish.)
  
  The plan is not to make this the main focus of unlocking, but it is an alternative method if the necessary unlocks did not occur while defeating monsters and the aim is to secure a method for voluntary unlocking.
  
  
• Unlocking Pathos as an element of strategy
  The strategy and knowledge for which routes to take and which monsters to defeat in order to unlock statuses will be necessary just like they were for the existing Salvage content. While only the order will be random, the only difference is in the amount of monsters that are necessary to defeat, and we are planning to have a good amount of room to make use of the knowledge gained from the existing Salvage.
  
  
• Jobs that can equip the rewards
  Dancer and scholar cannot equip the rewards from the existing Salvage content. While this will not change, the revamped Salvage equipment as well as the new equipment will have dancer and scholar added to the list of jobs that can equip them. We will also be making adjustments so that the stats are compatible.
  

I think the easiest way to see how this content has changed would be to try it out first-hand on the Test Server and we are working hard to implement this. However, it seems like it is going to take some more time, so hang in there just a bit more.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

[*]Jobs that can equip the rewards
Dancer and scholar cannot equip the rewards from the existing Salvage content. While this will not change, the revamped Salvage equipment as well as the new equipment will have dancer and scholar added to the list of jobs that can equip them. We will also be making adjustments so that the stats are compatible.

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What about Geomancer and Rune Knight? While those are not in the game, the devs obviously know about the workings of those jobs, as far as what is intended for them to do and what stats are useful for them. Since the enhanced salvage gear is still in the works, it would make sense to ensure that the upcoming jobs aren't left out on gear that is released in the period that we're waiting for the new expansion.

Obviously this doesn't only apply to salvage gear, but to all gear that is currently in development.

Same deal with not having any WOTG jobs added to Homam/Nashira or TOAU jobs added to abjuration gear(though crimson is the only exception I think)

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

What about Geomancer and Rune Knight?

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They will belong to the "lolJob" category until Adoulin bring end game gear, which will certainly not be at start of the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Same deal with not having any WOTG jobs added to Homam/Nashira or TOAU jobs added to abjuration gear(though crimson is the only exception I think)

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Difference being the upgraded salvage gear is available to DNC/SCH. The upgraded Limbus gear was not. This puzzles me.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

I have some more information to share about the content of the Salvage higher-tier expansion.

• After warping to the next floor, a lamp will be placed for voluntary Pathos unlocking
  We will be making it possible so that each player can check the lamp and select a status to be unlocked that was unlocked in the floors prior. (In order to use the lamp, certain conditions must be fulfilled on the previous floor; however, we are planning to make the conditions easy to accomplish.)
  
  The plan is not to make this the main focus of unlocking, but it is an alternative method if the necessary unlocks did not occur while defeating monsters and the aim is to secure a method for voluntary unlocking.
  
  
• Unlocking Pathos as an element of strategy
  The strategy and knowledge for which routes to take and which monsters to defeat in order to unlock statuses will be necessary just like they were for the existing Salvage content. While only the order will be random, the only difference is in the amount of monsters that are necessary to defeat, and we are planning to have a good amount of room to make use of the knowledge gained from the existing Salvage.
  
  
• Jobs that can equip the rewards
  Dancer and scholar cannot equip the rewards from the existing Salvage content. While this will not change, the revamped Salvage equipment as well as the new equipment will have dancer and scholar added to the list of jobs that can equip them. We will also be making adjustments so that the stats are compatible.
  

I think the easiest way to see how this content has changed would be to try it out first-hand on the Test Server and we are working hard to implement this. However, it seems like it is going to take some more time, so hang in there just a bit more.

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Wait a minute...maybe I'm misinterpreting, this but does this mean we have to unlock and re-unlock pathos each floor we go up?

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Originally Posted by Kitkat

Wait a minute...maybe I'm misinterpreting, this but does this mean we have to unlock and re-unlock pathos each floor we go up?

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What I'm hearing is that after meeting a certain requirement.. Once you arrive on the next floor there's a lamp there and you freely get to choose a pathos to be unlocked that could have been unlocked on the floor prior...

For instance: If there were Magic and JA cells on the floor 1, Then on Floor 2 you can unlock Magic or JA via the lamp. This is of course assuming you met the requirement to use this lamp.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

The plan is not to make this the main focus of unlocking, but it is an alternative method if the necessary unlocks did not occur while defeating monsters and the aim is to secure a method for voluntary unlocking.

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In a timed event where you need to move as swift as possible, checking a lamp to unlock just eats up time. This is the same thing that happened in Neo-Nyzul and will lead to problems of it own I'm sure.


But I do however like this idea as it should help alleviate the random unlock problem slightly. This still won't help you out on the floor prior if your mage doesn't get their Magic pathos unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Unlocking Pathos as an element of strategy
The strategy and knowledge for which routes to take and which monsters to defeat in order to unlock statuses will be necessary just like they were for the existing Salvage content. While only the order will be random, the only difference is in the amount of monsters that are necessary to defeat, and we are planning to have a good amount of room to make use of the knowledge gained from the existing Salvage.

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I don't understand this... How is something that is completely random a part of strategy? It's like saying I can win at a dice game by the strategy of rolling the dice at a 45° angle each time I toss them.

Random does not equal strategy.

Now to address the part I bolded in the above quote.

What this says, to me, is that we'll have to kill more monsters then needed to ensure that our groups get the proper pathos removed from the correct people. So during this time, our mages could be zombies and completely useless, or our DD's could be whiffing (re: attempting to use H2H) while trying to farm pathos unlocks.

My group has only had one or two problems with cells, but it's quickly sorted out and never hindered us as a group. If this new system is better or not... Only time can tell.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

I think the easiest way to see how this content has changed would be to try it out first-hand on the Test Server and we are working hard to implement this. However, it seems like it is going to take some more time, so hang in there just a bit more.

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I'd love to try this on the test server with my group but alas... It seems that half of them can't join, and I really like having my friends/group behind me as we know each other well now.

With the pathos being unlocked upon the defeat of a monster, will it mean that you must be within 'exp range' to have them unlocked?

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

With the pathos being unlocked upon the defeat of a monster, will it mean that you must be within 'exp range' to have them unlocked?

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I suspect exp range is not an issue. It would limit the tactical advantage of bringing a full alliance, because instead of spreading in multiple groups to tackle more mobs, everyone would have to keep bunched up together.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

[*]After warping to the next floor, a lamp will be placed for voluntary Pathos unlocking
We will be making it possible so that each player can check the lamp and select a status to be unlocked that was unlocked in the floors prior. (In order to use the lamp, certain conditions must be fulfilled on the previous floor; however, we are planning to make the conditions easy to accomplish.)

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how will the chest at the start be handled? will it be a lamp that lets you choose 2-3?

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Originally Posted by Sargent

Difference being the upgraded salvage gear is available to DNC/SCH. The upgraded Limbus gear was not. This puzzles me.

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No, you got it wrong. Upgraded salvage gear will not be available to DNC/SCH, but another set of gear ALSO obtainable from salvage will have DNC/SCH.

Homam armor can be upgraded to Enif armor with an arch-omega piece, which has the same jobs as Homam, but the arch-omega piece can also be used to create Murzim armor. The same for Nashira armor.
Homam/Enif : THF / PLD / DRK / DRG / BLU
Murzim : THF / PLD / DRK / RNG / DRG / COR / PUP / DNC

Nashira/Adhara : WHM / BLM / RDM / SMN / BLU
Shedir : WHM / BLM / RDM / BRD / SMN / BLU / SCH

So DNC will not appear on Skadi +1 armor but will appear on Alt-Skadi +1 armor, while SCH will not appear on Morrigan +1 armor but will on Alt-Morrigan +1 armor.
Alt-salvage armors will probably have a slightly different job distribution, so stats will also be different like with neolimbus armor and alt-armor.

GEO and RNF might als appear on the alt-armors, since they know those jobs are going to be added, but I suspect they will not.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

I have some more information to share about the content of the Salvage higher-tier expansion.
[list][*]After warping to the next floor, a lamp will be placed for voluntary Pathos unlocking
We will be making it possible so that each player can check the lamp and select a status to be unlocked that was unlocked in the floors prior. (In order to use the lamp, certain conditions must be fulfilled on the previous floor; however, we are planning to make the conditions easy to accomplish.)

The plan is not to make this the main focus of unlocking, but it is an alternative method if the necessary unlocks did not occur while defeating monsters and the aim is to secure a method for voluntary unlocking.

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Simply put: I love this!

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Originally Posted by Kristal

No, you got it wrong. Upgraded salvage gear will not be available to DNC/SCH, but another set of gear ALSO obtainable from salvage will have DNC/SCH.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

• Jobs that can equip the rewards
  Dancer and scholar cannot equip the rewards from the existing Salvage content. While this will not change, the revamped Salvage equipment as well as the new equipment will have dancer and scholar added to the list of jobs that can equip them. We will also be making adjustments so that the stats are compatible.

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It specifically says DNC/SCH will be able to use upgraded gear.

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Originally Posted by hiko

because they can't put temps in treasure pool

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Do we know this? Have they tried, and told us it couldn't be done, or is it just that they haven't tried doing it yet?

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Originally Posted by Kristal

I suspect exp range is not an issue. It would limit the tactical advantage of bringing a full alliance, because instead of spreading in multiple groups to tackle more mobs, everyone would have to keep bunched up together.

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My point exactly

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

After warping to the next floor, a lamp will be placed for voluntary Pathos unlocking
We will be making it possible so that each player can check the lamp and select a status to be unlocked that was unlocked in the floors prior. (In order to use the lamp, certain conditions must be fulfilled on the previous floor; however, we are planning to make the conditions easy to accomplish.)

The plan is not to make this the main focus of unlocking, but it is an alternative method if the necessary unlocks did not occur while defeating monsters and the aim is to secure a method for voluntary unlocking.

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This does a lot to help with my nightmares about total randomness.

Literal nightmares about bees flying off with my ability to cast magic while a spider pantomimes the animations for various mage job abilities. A rampart watches and laughter pours from the portal in its center.

They were pretty rough.

Greetings!

Since the last post made by Okipuit there have been some questions. We will check and see if we can get some information, but keep in mind they are still working on all the details.

In the meantime, I just wanted to share another quick bit of information about unlocking Pathos.

We are actually planning to make it so when a Pathos is removed, it is displayed in everyone’s chat logs. We will be addressing this for both unlocking by defeating monsters as well as when the lamp is used.

When players use cells it is shown in the chat log, but players who are far away cannot see it. We feel that this will be much better to confirm and share the status of unlocking.

Excited :D Been doing a lot more salvage lately, and it's slowly becoming one of my more favorite events.

@Muse

Still, as you mentioned, even with the lamp option it sounds like more of a time sink than it is about strategy. Whole set up of current salvage is to get specific things unlocked as soon as you start via chest options. After that you get whatever else you need on the first floor before heading up to the next floor to continue unlocking, not talk to a lamp to unlock previously unlocked some of those pathos then re-unlock the remaining pathos you need again to complete x task just to do it all over on the next floor.

I'd rather they keep the current cell system over this if that is what they plan to do, or even the current progression of unlocking pathos as the cell system over unlocking certain slots...then re-unlocking each floor via lamp and random pass out.

Strategy to me is entering and popping a chest to get a small number of cells to unlock pathos. These then get sent to individuals that absolutely need them to ease the progression method while obtaining the random drop pathos for the rest (or at least min rest to complete next task). None of these should be locked again when going to next floor, but instead (like current system) you work on other pathos you need on top of the ones you already have unlocked.

@Kitkat

I think we've both reading what was said by Okipuit differently. I'm reading it as, once you unlock you're always unlocked. Changing floors does not cause your pathos to lock once more. The lamp is there for those people who didn't get a chance at pathos unlocked or the wrong ones on the floor prior.

I agree with you on the chest and cells. There was really no reason to take this out of salvage as most groups are fast enough to pass/lot the cells as directed to them. This is just SE putting their favorite "random/luck factor" into Neo-Salvage, and taking away what really was "Strategy" in normal Salvage.


On a positive note: We may be blowing this out of proportion at this time. This could be easier then we may know. But, as it sounds on paper... It doesn't sound good or like Salvage at all.

They aren't saying you will get relocked, they're saying the choices the lamp will give only includes a list of things it was possible to unlock on the previous floor.

Take Zhayolm Remnants as it is now. You can get Incus, Preacipitatio, Opacus and Duplicatus cells. The strategy used to be fighting the minimum number of mobs to get enough unlocks before going to the NE portal and going up.

Basically they're saying when you go to floor 2, the lamp will only offer to unlock those 4 and nothing else, because no other cells were obtainable on floor 1.

Sure using the lamp will take time, but if you got what you wanted, you can choose to ignore it too. Or, only 1 person needs to touch the lamp so everyone else moves on while the 1 person missing something grabs for a second.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

In the meantime, I just wanted to share another quick bit of information about unlocking Pathos.

We are actually planning to make it so when a Pathos is removed, it is displayed in everyone’s chat logs. We will be addressing this for both unlocking by defeating monsters as well as when the lamp is used.

When players use cells it is shown in the chat log, but players who are far away cannot see it. We feel that this will be much better to confirm and share the status of unlocking.

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While this is helpful, why is SE Dumbing down salvage so much. At the moment it takes a skilled leader to keep track of who is unlocked with what. I've always viewed salvage as one of those events where the more you did it the better you got. As teamwork with a party improved the longer you did it together, everyone would learn each others nuances, which increased the effectiveness of the team.

It was much like dynamis of OLD where the ones that succeeded are the ones that had the EXPERIENCE. I still say that SE, your replacing skill with luck just so that EVERYONE can do it. What happened to the stance that NOT all gear is meant to be obtainable by everyone. That some gear requires hard work and dedication to get, or insane luck. Please stop dumbing down the game and trying to clone it to be WoW. Your players are smarter than you think.

Greetings,

I have an announcement to make about the Salvage high-tier expansion that we will be adding to the Test Server.

During this week’s Test Server update, we will start off by only implementing Zhayolm Remnants.
(Same as before, the entrance will be the Guilded Gateway.)

At the current stage, adjustments for monster placement/strength, drop items, and pathos unlocking rate, have not been finalized. There is a possibility that we may change these elements moving forward. Also, we’ve made it so that notorious monsters that appear when completing certain requirements, do not spawn on the Test Server.

We would like to receive feedback focusing on the largest change from original Salvage, the pathos unlocking system.

To aid in your testing endeavors, we have setup the Test Server as stated below:

• It will be possible to enter solo.
• When checking the Guilded Gateway, you will receive a Remnants Permit, so it will be possible to participate without obtaining the key item in advance.
  (Each member who wishes to participate will need to obtain the key item via the above method.)
• There will be no cool-down time between entry.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,
To aid in your testing endeavors, we have setup the Test Server as stated below:

• It will be possible to enter solo.
• When checking the Guilded Gateway, you will receive a Remnants Permit, so it will be possible to participate without obtaining the key item in advance.
  (Each member who wishes to participate will need to obtain the key item via the above method.)
• There will be no cool-down time between entry.

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You should make these adjustments on the live servers as well. Kthx.

They should at the very least allow for solo entry if the server can handle it. There's no reason you should need to bring 2 people for content that is soloable (referring to old salvage).

lets hope they have the same abysmal drop rates that made duping popular!
glad to see the devs don't listen.

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Originally Posted by Plasticleg

lets hope they have the same abysmal drop rates that made duping popular!
glad to see the devs don't listen.

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Doubt it. They'll probably make them a tad higher than NQ Salvage. Voidwatch as it is has Pre-update Salvage drop rates anyway >_>

All i care about is if they made salvage cells stackable or not.
Trying to do this event keeping free space and constantly having to pass/toss cells annoys me to no end.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

You should make these adjustments on the live servers as well. Kthx.

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No, thanks. We need events that you don't do solo, and we need events that don't take 18+... The problem if that if they make it easily accessible ( solo assault entry, solo salvage entry), there will be no pride getting the gear and the gear will suck. Also I hope synergy level 80 with high level crafting will be required for the new gear.

Original Solo/Salvage should be allowed to go solo. The main reason why is because people already do this via the glitch where you log out as the leader starts the mission. Is there any reason to allow people to do this via exploit and not the other players just because SE thinks Mythics should be totally impossible to make?

For mythic it's dumb to farm alexandrites on your one. It's better to spam marrows and then buy alex on different servers.

Wait, your telling me to change servers to buy an item to make a weapon? What?

Welcome to FFXI ? How do you think most of the myhtic are being done ?

Umm~ I kinda doubt anyone is going to another server every few months to buy them. So far as I remember there is a limit how often you can server hop, like once a month or every 3 months. If you think thats how people make Mythics I think your mistaken... Seeing as so far as I know the person on this server who recently made a Mythic never server hopped he simply had his LS & Friends running Salvage & bought them.

Lol nope, you don't have to server transfer your main char, you just have to send several mules with money on another server and then have them come back. If you have another account you can transfer the alex back as sson as they are bought. Doing this you just have to gather money first and then since there are 15 servers, farm only 2k alex per server : ~40 M per mules. This unless you want to really do 300 salvage runs ? With the server transfer method it cost you 2 transfers + 15 mules for a limited period of time (likely < 1 month) as well as 600M which is only 50 umbral marrows for instance. It's actually more clever to sell the marrows on other servers too.. you'll only need ~ 3 marrows per char. Yes it cost you more than a single char, but no noone can farm a myhtic solo, and noone is going to help you do ALL the alex farming/assault refarming/ token/ampula farming so you *need* to pay extra character anyway~. If salvage entry becomes possible solo, not much will change since you are unlikely to clear the 50 assault solo, or farm ampula etc solo.