Artifact Armor 4 idea

Seriously. Static stats would be the best. The Augment stuff how it lists +this and +that in yellow letters looks really cheap, and ghetto :|

The only problem i see with "Static" updates is that pretty much every piece of Relic is pure sh*t, either +1 or NQ, so every armor +2, unless they literally rewrite every single stat on the armor, would still suck and be absolutely useless to get.

Where as Random might make something awful into WTF amazing (Read: Adaman Feet for BST).

So Im with Random, Only because I'm quite sure "Static" buffs would be very unappealing and since most relic armor is pure crap as is, NQ or HQ, so again, unless they literally re-wrote the armor it would be junk, where as again i point you to synergy augments, Random Augments might actually make wtf-awful armor semi-decent.

That my opinion. I vote Random, on the assumption Static upgrades would be garbage. I would sacrifice "knowing my goal" in return for "not getting pure shit"

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

Static, Please. Caveat: They've got to be as good or possibly better then Empyrean +2 or it's not worth getting except for a few situational Pieces.

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I still use multiple pieces of NQ/+1 relic on jobs that have full AF3+2. They have plenty of situational uses, so honestly I'd love for any sort of augments to focus on enhancing those uses and JA/Spell-specific boosts rather than generic stats.

With Static upgrades I'm just seeing those Situational peices becoming a little better for their "Situation" while the other 85% of Relic remaining bad.

I don't deny there are some current ones with some very limited situational uses, I'm only expressing that if they're going to put time into Relic+2, I dont want Assassin's Armlets to get HP+30 CHR+7 Treasure Hunter+1 and Ennmity+5.

Then they're really not worth upgrading.

or Assassin's Vest to go from AGI+~4 to AGI+6.

(P.S I know you weren't talking to me but i can see someone using that argument so im just getting out the response now)

(P.P.S I also kinda don't want this to happen at all, if any of the +2 are good, Im assuming you'll need the +1's first, which is going to flood those Particular dynamis zones, worse-more is that the prices of currency will likely go up a hefty amount due to demand for Ancient Currency to get +1 upgrades for the +2, It'll really suck for people working on Relic)

Static, please and thank you.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE IT STATIC

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Originally Posted by ThaiChi

Random stats are already used for abjuration equipment and seems entirely appropriate as such.

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No it was never appropriate for anything, ever.

Meh, Enjoy you DEX+7 Enmity+5 Assassin bonnet's +2 no one will work on >_>

Finally, a SMN Sig wearing good armor... ;)

Most of the reasons people are giving for static are awful. Repetition will dump tons of currency into the market. Anything that generates more relics is better.

I'm just working off the assumption Static upgrades will be garbage. They're working off the assumption "Not static" will be so random they expect it to be like Fields of Valor (which it wont).

Wish we had a little more info on what kind of bonuses we might see with each choice...

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Originally Posted by Camate

The development team is currently looking into introducing relic equipment +2 in the form of synergy augments

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I stopped reading here. If you relegate relic equipment +2 to synergy, you'll isolate the players. Those who have no interest in synergy won't bother, even for this, and those who are just starting synergy will have to grind for a few months just to get their skills high enough to finish their relic equipment +2.

In short, using synergy for this at all is a terrible idea. Go back to using Sagheera.

It's going to suck really hard if we need to +1 our Relics with -1 gear from CoP Dynamis before we can augment it into +2.

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I stopped reading here. If you relegate relic equipment +2 to synergy, you'll isolate the players. Those who have no interest in synergy won't bother, even for this, and those who are just starting synergy will have to grind for a few months just to get their skills high enough to finish their relic equipment +2.

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Short answer: No it won't.
Long answer: Just like augments with sky/abjuration gear, someone else with high enough synergy can augment your gear for you barring they have high enough skill to do so. You don't need to have synergy skilled to augment your own gear, others can do so for you, probably for a profit(unless they like you).

static! but decently good to use when compared with Empyrean..
also since you mention +2, will +1 have to be done first in order to proceed ?

Almost certainly will require +1, Anything else is wishful thinking. :(

Static.

However, is it at all possible if you could create varying options for each piece? Instead of perhaps having a single, pre-determined result to +2 gear. Provide a bit of variance in the choices, along the lines of Add-on gear, but pertaining specifically to that job, much in the way merits would optimally work.

This will allow for perhaps more individuality among members of each job.

I hate synergy :/

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Short answer: No it won't.
Long answer: Just like augments with sky/abjuration gear, someone else with high enough synergy can augment your gear for you barring they have high enough skill to do so. You don't need to have synergy skilled to augment your own gear, others can do so for you, probably for a profit(unless they like you).

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Same problem occurs. You have to depend on other people, who probably want to be compensated, instead of doing an event battle alongside you. I don't know about you, but I have had HUGE problems with finding help. It's why I quit.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Static.

However, is it at all possible if you could create varying options for each piece? Instead of perhaps having a single, pre-determined result to +2 gear. Provide a bit of variance in the choices, along the lines of Add-on gear, but pertaining specifically to that job, much in the way merits would optimally work.

This will allow for perhaps more individuality among members of each job.

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I was just about to post and say random so everyone wasn't in the same piece of 'must have' gear but this works better.

This way you can have different types of build for the same job meaning that there's room in parties for two (or more) of the same job on different builds.

So +1 Static but only if there are multiple trees/options.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Almost certainly will require +1, Anything else is wishful thinking. :(

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I should hope so. I didn't HQ all that stuff for nothing.

Edit:
Also, it will give me (and others) reason to do my all-time favorite FFXI event ever again, possibly even regularly. Dynamis (old school) was the best event FFXI ever had. Sadly, it's only possible in dreamlands these days. No epic 3.5h adventures anymore, but enough fun to make me wanna play again (possibly).

Who said they're even making AF4? 90 is when AF3 takes place I doubt they're making a lvl 90 AF 4. If anything they'll do Af3 + 3 or something unless there's a PS2 limiation on that. Expect all new gear at 99

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I'm just working off the assumption Static upgrades will be garbage. They're working off the assumption "Not static" will be so random they expect it to be like Fields of Valor (which it wont).

Wish we had a little more info on what kind of bonuses we might see with each choice...

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Random augments aren't going to make Relic gear outshine Emp gear. Emp gear is just too perfectly suited to each job with amazing stats on every piece. At best you'll just be using the same situational pieces as before only with a few extra random stats added.

Personally I'd rather just have fixed stats with those situational pieces made into better situational pieces e.g. Assassin's Armlets with Treasure Hunter +2.

Synergy is garbage and has always been garbage. SE isn't going to make it any less unpopular than it is now by trying to ram it down our throats. Abjuration gear augments didn't change this and Artifact gear augments won't either. If it's based on Synergy people simply won't bother.

Just wondering: When has the community EVER loved random augments?

Wait... so do you need to already have it +1'd via dreamworld dynamis to +2 it with ToM?

Static please. I enjoy being able to store equipment without having to log out 10+ times to retrieve my gear.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Random augments aren't going to make Relic gear outshine Emp gear. Emp gear is just too perfectly suited to each job with amazing stats on every piece. At best you'll just be using the same situational pieces as before only with a few extra random stats added.

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You say this, but let's make an example:

Mavi Mintan +2: Acc+12, Macc+12, Haste+3%, Refresh+2
Mirage Jubbah: MP+20, Acc+10, Enmity-2, Refresh+1
So all you need to make Mirage better than Mavi is: 3 accuracy, 13 magic accuracy, 4 haste, and 2 refresh.

Considering the jump from 75 gear to 90 gear, I don't see it as being impossible. I imagine the difference between 90 and 99 gear will be just as huge as the difference between 75 and 90 gear.

I don't understand why the developers have always been so clueless as to what the user population wants. The fact that they even offered the option for "random" is a testament to this. An overwhelming majority of people have made it clear that we want the security of knowing that our work is paying off.

I'm glad that these forums are here so that the devs can change their attitudes towards the game based on what they see.

Real life application:
Work for 2 weeks, have a chance at getting paid, could get payed 0$, could get payed 1,000$.

or

Work for 2 weeks, get payed 500$.

I like to sleep in a bed, and I like knowing that I will get to sleep in a bed because of my work.

Stop asking for static and good stats already they already said no.

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Originally Posted by Eric

I don't understand why the developers have always been so clueless as to what the user population wants. The fact that they even offered the option for "random" is a testament to this. An overwhelming majority of people have made it clear that we want the security of knowing that our work is paying off.

I'm glad that these forums are here so that the devs can change their attitudes towards the game based on what they see.

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From reading this thread "the playerbase" wants :

- static because you think they will be easier to get (they claimed otherwise : this looks like killing Arch DL one hundred times)
- not synergy because they did not level it.
- storable because they don't care on the item anyway.
- they want static and also good stats even though the dev said the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

derp derp weaker must automatically mean 50% why did I get booted from BG again?

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Obviously 50% is a maximum. The dev post is full of "BALANCE" terminology. Good means hard, average means easy, is what I understood basically. I'd rather be pimp in salvage gear than wear the same AF3 gear as everyone else. If the the static stats suck, which they will, nobody will do the event, there will be no variety in the game AGAIN, etc.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Obviously 50% is a maximum. The dev post os full of "BALANCE" terminology. Good means hard, avergae means easy, is what I understood basically. I'd rather have be pimp in salvage gear than wear the same AF3 gear as everyone else. If the the static stats suck, which they will, nobody will do the event, there will be no variety in the game AGAIN, etc.

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So in the same paragraph you say that you would rather wear worse gear (Salvage), and that if the gear isn't better than current (AF3) no one will do it.

You're so silly!

You are not bright. It's an analogy.

From reading the devs post we can be certain that :

* relic +2 will be macro pieces ("enhances berserk")
* job specific augments : aka NOT a huge pool of augments like sky or fov, very specific.
* static < random

To me it means that for instance a WAR relic could get TWO augments (or a low number, maybe one)

if static : berserk +2%, agressor +2%, you have to kill a WAR NM in dynamis one hunded times.
if random : berserk +1~5%, agressor +1~5%, you have 1% chance of getting max augments but 100% chance of getting 1% or more.

If people want static with good stats, then MAYBE the devs should actually consider it instead of just outright shooting it down. Customer satisfaction isn't a bad thing to have, and while you can hypothetically chibi-flail about how effort wouldn't match the reward in one way or the other, suggesting impossibility pretty much disqualifies you from any attempt at talking about balance. And lolbalance in FFXI.

It's not a poll on "do you want static with good stats" so you are wrong and you won't get it. Let me quote the dev post

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Originally Posted by Static Stats Approach

・In order to get good stats, time must be spent working towards completion

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Kill an NM 100 times.

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・Depending on the stats, the time needed will be adjusted

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100 times for the crap, 200 for the mediocre.

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・Can predict the time needed to obtain the item

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100 days

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・Won’t be able to add the stats of your dreams since it is static

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lawl it means you can include the stats of your dream in the random

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・Will be able to store your equipment

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Since they will suck, don't worry because you will be able to store them !

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Random Stats Approach
・In order to get the best stats, you will have to repeat the process many times

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In order to have average stats not much work is needed, but if you are dedicated enough to your job you can be special.

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・The amount of time spent and the stats received aren’t necessarily equal

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bad luck

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・Have a possibility of getting the item in a shorter amount of time than static stat items

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good luck

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・There will be room to get higher stats than static stat items

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random stats will not suck if try a few times and will be awesome if you try a lot.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You are not bright. It's an analogy.

From reading the devs post we can be certain that :

* relic +2 will be macro pieces ("enhances berserk")
* job specific augments : aka NOT a huge pool of augments like sky or fov, very specific.
* static < random

To me it means that for instance a WAR relic could get TWO augments (or a low number, maybe one)

if static : berserk +2%, agressor +2%, you have to kill a WAR NM in dynamis one hunded times.
if random : berserk +1~5%, agressor +1~5%, you have 1% chance of getting max augments but 100% chance of getting 1% or more.

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You do realize that 1% chance of getting something will end up being like trying to get K club to drop, right?

The drop rate on PCC from Under Observation is probably around 10%, but you can do it 500 times and not see one PCC. Except this gear will not be AH-able, meaning you just get lucky, you don't really work towards anything. You can have shit luck but work harder than EVERYONE else and still have something worse than someone who got the drop on accident and then augmented it and got perfect augs.

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Originally Posted by Cruentus

I stopped reading here. If you relegate relic equipment +2 to synergy, you'll isolate the players. Those who have no interest in synergy won't bother, even for this, and those who are just starting synergy will have to grind for a few months just to get their skills high enough to finish their relic equipment +2.

In short, using synergy for this at all is a terrible idea. Go back to using Sagheera.

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Seriously, I wonder if people actually tried synergy and sky augments. I mean. Synergy doesn't take months to level. When they annouced sky augments I started synergy from right away. It took me 3 nights to cap it at 80.... its stupidly easy and costs almost nothing. The only bad point of synergy is recipes requiring mutiple high crafts.

Most AF2 sucked at level 75. Most AF2+1 were garbage updagrade compared to their NQ ( +1 def woot!!). What do you think AF2+2 will do? At least with random stats I can expect to enhance the one or two af2 I actually use for their job ability boost. And I dont care about storage, I dont store items I use all the time. If I store them it means I dont use them.

Your problem is that you think you will get the static in one try when they clearly stated it would be a painful long process.

You know, actually arguing with you Pchan is silly.

The community wants static, you are just a blip on the radar.

Static. I'd like a system where I know were I'm heading to.

Okay, I had to read through the entire thread to make sure I wasn't reposting ideas that someone has already popped in.

The Look of Relic+2's:
1st, if we're working with Relic gear, please drastically alter the physical look of the equipment so it doesn't feel like putting on the clothes you wore back in high school. More specifically, I absolutely loath WAR's "stomach window" on AF and Relic pieces, and was finally relieved to see it closed up with the introduction of Empy gear (though, I'm still jealous of the fact PLDs got super smexy plate Empy gear over WAR >.>). The Relic +2 could look "familiar" at best, but please make them even more presentable if we have to spend the time to alter their dated stats/effectiveness. Ok, that's the visual side of things, now on to the "Random/Static" issue.

Offer the option of Synergy OR TotM please:
2nd. If there was a way to lvl Synergy without having crafting skills whatsoever by yourself (not having someone else with craft skills in your party), I would love Synergy honestly (Unless I'm missing something and you actually can do this now). Since you cannot, I won't be bothering with it now or even in the future. That said, I'm still using Trail of the Magians to this very day, and loving it. It is the perfect "work for what you want" system, and I would gladly use this system over Synergy to augment my Relic +2 gear any day of the week. Please offer the choice of using both systems. Perhaps this will open the "profit" door for Synergist while allowing the other majority of players the freedom to work at their own pace.

A Possible "Random Stats" System
3rd. If the planned "Random system" for this process is anywhere near the previous attempts shown in our other In-game systems, I must say «Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.» As shown throughout this thread alone, Random stats are simply put, "NOT FUN", and it really doesn't offer a way to effectively reward a player's efforts over time. However, this doesn't mean that a Random system can't work at all, it just needs some better tools thrown into the mix. For example:

• Adding multiple Boss drop items (3-6 items depending on the gear)that can be used to drastically reduce the "Randomization" of getting higher stats while attempting to augment ones gear. They wouldn't be mandatory at all for the process, but would be a great way of adding some method to validate the possible work players will have to put into this augmenting effort. For example:

WAR Relic Body+2
Without any of the special Boss drop items: 5% chance of getting new higher augmented stats.
With 3/6 of the special Boss drop items: 30% chance of getting new higher augmented stats.
With 6/6 of the special Boss drop items: 50% chance of getting new higher augmented stats.

This way you can still have some randomization in the system, but players can work towards closing the frustration gap involved in just not having any way of knowing what you're going to get over and over and OVER again.

Static Stats:
Lastly, I truly don't understand why Static stats have to be weaker to begin with. Simply make the path to achieve the desired stats worth the static stats (like the TotM system) so players can feel validated for their work. Killing Glavoid 40'ish-50 times was a pain even with a static group (gathering key items more so) but the work was worth the reward. It takes time, devotion, and planning to achieve those Empy weapons, and it feels great when you finally pull it off. Work/Effort should = the Reward. In the case at hand, I would love Static Stats that reflect the amount of effort put forth into unlocking them. I would also again have to opt towards using both Synergy and Trail of the Magians to achieve these stats, since the Synergy stats could be lower vs the TotM stats based on the difficulty of the trials involved. Using the TotM system doesn't equate to "Easier" at all, it could in fact equate to being even more difficult, challenging, and "fun" vs Random attempts and synthesizing.

In closing, just to be clear, if none of the above suggestions I've made are possible, I would have to vote for Static stats over Random stats due to the simple "work = reward" logic. Please consider using Both Synergy and Trial of the Magians for these augments so to offer the most choice to the players.

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Originally Posted by kingfury

Offer the option of Synergy OR TotM please:
2nd. If there was a way to lvl Synergy without having crafting skills whatsoever by yourself (not having someone else with craft skills in your party), I would love Synergy honestly (Unless I'm missing something and you actually can do this now). Since you cannot, I won't be bothering with it now or even in the future. That said, I'm still using Trail of the Magians to this very day, and loving it. It is the perfect "work for what you want" system, and I would gladly use this system over Synergy to augment my Relic +2 gear any day of the week. Please offer the choice of using both systems. Perhaps this will open the "profit" door for Synergist while allowing the other majority of players the freedom to work at their own pace.

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You dont need crafting skill to level synergy. gold leaves, platinum leaves etc will bring you to level 70, 10 away from the cap, more than enough to HQ3 on sky augments.