Alliance content isn't fun

Game literally didn't have alliances in the game until Zilart iirc. The game started with 6 man parties only. There's no skill involved in alliances, 75%+ of your 18 man is afk while the other 25% mash 1 macro over and over again. It's the most degenerate boring form of content in the game, and it needs to not exist.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Game literally didn't have alliances in the game until Zilart iirc. The game started with 6 man parties only. There's no skill involved in alliances, 75%+ of your 18 man is afk while the other 25% mash 1 macro over and over again. It's the most degenerate boring form of content in the game, and it needs to not exist.

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I would love to see an alliance with 14 people afk and 4 active player getting T4 or Dyna wave 3 boss wins......

18 man alliance isn't TOO different from 6 man, unless you are doing multi step skillchain, which isn't necessary the best way to DPS even in 6 man pt if your tank and BRD can DD anyways.

18 man alliance content still needs to watch position, swap to DT set, keep bubbles up, watch hate, silence mage adds etc. It's the same as 6 man. Additionally, while it seems easy to play a job in 18 man alliance, for organizers it's tougher to manage a bigger pt.

Admittedly many 6 man content requires more coordination skill than most 18 man content, but I'd argue that's the content design issue, not pt size issue. Ambuscade vol1 VD and master trials both require a lot of coordination, because of the mechanics. On the other hand NMs like wave 3 bosses has way less mechanics to deal with. So they look easy, but it's not pt size's fault, it's just that the NMs in 18 man alliance content are designed that way.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Game literally didn't have alliances in the game until Zilart iirc. The game started with 6 man parties only. There's no skill involved in alliances, 75%+ of your 18 man is afk while the other 25% mash 1 macro over and over again. It's the most degenerate boring form of content in the game, and it needs to not exist.

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The game also started w/o Advanced Jobs and lv50 cap IIRC.. Do your rose-tinted glasses make that appear attractive as well? ^^;; NA release included Zilart, so as far as non-Japanese players are concerned, alliance content really has been around since the beginning of the game.

Outside of Vagary, I can't think of any alliance content that would be successful playing the way that you say that it is played. Vagary IS a good example of how NOT to design alliance content, what with the losing-to-RNG in the feet wing, boss mechanics being SO overwhelmingly anti-melee and gimmicks being difficult to work more than 3-4 players in successfully, but it's basically the exception to the rule for modern alliance content.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

Vagary IS a good example of how NOT to design alliance content, what with the losing-to-RNG in the feet wing, boss mechanics being SO overwhelmingly anti-melee and gimmicks being difficult to work more than 3-4 players in successfully, but it's basically the exception to the rule for modern alliance content.

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The only reason why most people aren't doing Vagary in alliances is because of drops. The more people split drops = less gil/hr. That being said, we still do Vagary in 18/18 alliance as LS event when campaign is up. So it's not like Vagary has mechanics that really punish alliances so hard, it's all about drops and gil/hr.

I mean, the content is like 3+ years old? For content THAT old nothing will possess any threat to geared players and established endgame groups. If you want to screw gil/hr and do vagary as an alliance, you're not losing anything in any way.

Like wise, the reason why wave 3 is alliance content is because of DPS checks, that's it.

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Originally Posted by Afania

The only reason why most people aren't doing Vagary in alliances is because of drops. The more people split drops = less gil/hr. That being said, we still do Vagary in 18/18 alliance as LS event when campaign is up. So it's not like Vagary has mechanics that really punish alliances so hard, it's all about drops and gil/hr.

I mean, the content is like 3+ years old? For content THAT old nothing will possess any threat to geared players and established endgame groups. If you want to screw gil/hr and do vagary as an alliance, you're not losing anything in any way.

Like wise, the reason why wave 3 is alliance content is because of DPS checks, that's it.

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A geared-to-the-teeth full alliance who does everything right can still be defeated by RNG in feet wing, the last wing of Vagary is done by noengagetank+nekkidsch+nekkidblm+15x cheerleaders and the combination of nasty+powerful AOEs and the NoDeathsAllowed clause to pop 2x of the bosses make it a decidedly horrible idea to go in swinging at any point other than the final boss. Personally, I call it bad design when an integral part of the content design is that non-nekkid players are too powerful to properly do the content. >_>

I always go full alliance for Vagary. There's always plenty of newer folk who still need the clears, and I am not playing this game to get rich. :3

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

A geared-to-the-teeth full alliance who does everything right can still be defeated by RNG in feet wing

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That's not anti-alliance design though.

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Originally Posted by Afania

That's not anti-alliance design though.

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The rest of it is tho. :x You know, the 80% of the same run-on sentence that you didn't quote. XD