Dynamis - Mad

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

People should kill yellow mobs, especially if they're procced because that means despite getting a proc he's wasting everyone's time holding it and slowing down repops as well. Unless you have a means of damaging two or more mobs at the same time at the same rate you'd do it to a single mob (like if you're a WAR FCing, for whatever reason), there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to hold mobs and if you're doing it you deserve whatever it is people have in store for you.

---

About the Fell Cleave bit...

It's vaguely similar for a Beastmaster who lets his or her pet kill proc'ed monsters while he or she focuses on using BOX STEP BOX STEP BOX STEP BOX STEP BOX STEP BOX STEP on a fresh monster. The pet can't help with procs, the Beastmaster has no reason to kill an un-proc'ed monster more quickly using the pet's assistance, and the Beastmaster isn't exactly a damage-machine when BOX STEP BOX STEP BOX STEP is needed at every opportunity; so pulling a fresh monster and letting the pet finish off the proc'ed monster is the most efficient option for that individual.

I'm not experienced enough with new Dynamis to know if Beastmasters actually work up huge back-logs doing this or not. I strongly suspect not, though, and that people of all colors and creeds just grab a bunch of monsters because they forgot about the dreadful proc affair for one glorious moment. Then they're reminded of it over dozens of BOX STEPS BOX STEPS BOX STEPS while stuff just lingers about and impacts their efficiency.

Your point of "grabbing a bunch of stuff and not killing anything that has seen the !! is dumb" definitely stands. I just think it's worth pointing out that there's a reason Beastmasters sometimes fight two things at once when the opportunity is there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

And this is where you're wrong. There's a reason beyond being a dick why holding multiple mobs is bad, because it's inefficient.
...
Unless you have a means of damaging two or more mobs at the same time at the same rate you'd do it to a single mob (like if you're a WAR FCing, for whatever reason), there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to hold mobs and if you're doing it you deserve whatever it is people have in store for you.

---

I'm sorry, but you're incorrect about this. Killspeed is not the only limiting factor. Under your reasoning, a brd+dd duo would be best served by having the brd pull one mob, help kill the mob until it's completely dead, and then move to pull again, but this simply is not the case. The BRD's time is better spent looking for the next "good" pull. The reason for this is because any time that the DD spends waiting for a pull is lost potential, so the BRD is best served by maintaining a constant flow of enemies for the DD so they never stop swinging.

The same thing goes for BST. The BST himself is the puller and the proccer, the pet is the DD. Any time the pet spends without a target to fight is wasted potential. Any time the pet spends waiting for a proc before finishing a mob off is wasted potential. This goes even further when you take into consideration the types of mob that BST fights (if you assume beastmen type mob). THFs, for example, waste 30 seconds of your time if you fail to proc them before they hit 50% HP. If both the BST and the pet are fighting this mob at the same time, your chances of bringing it to 50% HP before proccing double (assuming the bst and pet are evenly matched for damage).

So no, BST's efficiency is maximized by making sure the pet always has a procced mob to fight, and looking for the next target. And even if you assume the BST is limiting his own efficiency by being stupid, being a jerk doesn't solve stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

So you'd steal the yellow mobs from anyone, but only if they feel entitled to the yellow mob?

Here's the short of it: neither of you are entitled to that yellow mob. But if the freaking thing was pulled, procced, and half-killed by one guy, he's done more to deserve it than any random passerby. That still leaves mob ganker as a bigger jerk than guy who kills multiple enemies at the same time.

---

Here's the real short of it .

fighting 2-4 mobs at once is actually holding up the respawns for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I just think it's worth pointing out that there's a reason Beastmasters sometimes fight two things at once when the opportunity is there.

---

There is, and I was specifically targeting the groups of people who hold a bunch of mobs and assume they're all legally claimed. However, even that point has only partial application to BST, because by that logic they'd keep this up until they have a massive backlog that they can't possibly handle, so they'll end up wasting time and effort anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

The same thing goes for BST. The BST himself is the puller and the proccer, the pet is the DD.

---

Who says? A decent BST can deal damage comparable to their pet. Your argument depends on the assumption that pulling time after a mob is dead is wasted, but pulling time while the mob is alive is not. And it does not change the fact that after a while you'd have to move camp anyway or your pulls would be getting ridiculously long.

I admit I made a generalization, and I'm hating myself right now because I try to avoid those whenever I can. But the fact is, it's not nearly as beneficial to them as many people think it is. While killspeed is not all, it is a major factor, especially in this situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

And even if you assume the BST is limiting his own efficiency by being stupid, being a jerk doesn't solve stupid.

---

It's not about being a jerk, it's about taking an available mob, which increases currency flow. If you kill it before the BST would have, overall currency gain is increased at that time. Sucks for the BST, but not as much as it is beneficial for you. And concidering the BST does it by depriving others of available mobs to increase their own efficiency, this doesn't seem an unfair action.

Also, it seems you forget the second part to my argument. One was that it's not always as beneficial to the BST as they imagine, the other that it's overall less efficient in generating currency. While it may be beneficial to the BST, if done correctly, it drags everyone else down significantly more. It is, in any case, a selfish act. To maximize their efficiency (by a smaller amount), they deprive others of their farming time. And this issue is, at its core, a moral one. You say the BST "deserves" it, because he worked on it. I say other people deserve it, because he's depriving others of their farming time/space for a net loss in efficiency. The nature of Dynamis doesn't allow for this kind of planning, you enter when you enter and everyone is alloted the same amount of time. They can't just "come back later" and get what's there, they also have to do the best they can with what they have available. And precisely because of this, the "I was here first" argument doesn't work here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

Here's the real short of it .

Spending 15-60 seconds turned around attempting to Proc !! is actually holding up the respawns for everyone.

---

Corrected for accuracy, the Entirety of this mess could be solved with Proc system tweaks or removal.

Also,
More DD you do the more likely you spend time turned around waiting for a proc to happen, personal all time record with 5/5 TE in dreamland was 3 minutes of turned around mob holding action.

*Why does proc cause such a great boost to currency drops over TH?
*Is BST TH nerf ment so they can re-adjust to a non proc system without hurting THF?
*Why do only 3 sets of a dozen mobs have a JA weakness at any given time, and why is all but one "circle" so far apart?
*Why is WS proc not nearly 100% or Magic a higher %?
*Why don't respawn timers adjust based on how fast people are killing things?
*Why does SE enjoy watching people compete over mobs while yelling every slang, insult, swear word they can find? (kings, dynamis, abyssea)
*Is this how they keep currency rates in check, since an unopposed efficient group can easily create 100-200 pieces of currency per person per day?
*Does SE hate all of the players who play this game, and just want to force them onto XIV so they can put us back on the wheel from square one?

The world may never know.

if I let my stuff go yellow its on my head, apply this to everyone. Simple as that. Don't like it? Go cry on the forums about it or try to make up justifications about entitlement.

I'd be interested to know roughly how much currency an increased activation rate for magic !!'s would put in the economy, according to the Development Bros. Same goes for weaponskill !!'s or AoE !!'s from magic or weaponskills.

I'm fine with things are they are now but a lot of people seem really worked up. Is there some dude on the Development Bros who weighs nerd-rage in one hand and currency attainability in the other finds each morning that the nerd-rage isn't heavy enough to justify a change yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

*Why does proc cause such a great boost to currency drops over TH?

---

Balance!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

*Is BST TH nerf ment so they can re-adjust to a non proc system without hurting THF?

---

It is meant to provide balance!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

*Why do only 3 sets of a dozen mobs have a JA weakness at any given time, and why is all but one "circle" so far apart?

---

Balance!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

*Why is WS proc not nearly 100% or Magic a higher %?

---

Balance!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

*Why don't respawn timers adjust based on how fast people are killing things?

---

Balance!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

*Why does SE enjoy watching people compete over mobs while yelling every slang, insult, swear word they can find?

---

Bad, much like good, goes around! Karmic balance!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

*Is this how they keep currency rates in check, since an unopposed efficient group can easily create 100-200 pieces of currency per person per day?

---

Not in check, but in balance!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

*Does SE hate all of the players who play this game?

---

Yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kapao

It has recently come to my attention that Beastmasters are not aware that when a monster is unclaimed, it is fair game. If I run past you and you are fighting 4 different monsters 2-3 of which unclaimed, I will gladly take it upon myself to help you out.

Just because you can hold 4 different monsters, it doesn't mean you are entitled to them. If you can't keep them claimed - don't Q_Q.

If this is the provocation you need to sprew 15 different delicious flavours of mad in say or shout, then Beastmaster probably isn't the job for you.


Alternatively - stop taking on 4 mobs and throwing a tantrum when a DD comes along to finish one off for you. We really don't mind helping you out, and will continue to do so - and we appreciate the TH you've applied for us (yours, for a limited time only!)

---

This is how the little bst's start out, they see the other bst do it so they learn from them, you never see bst crafting or trying to grow anything, its a simple fact that they're wandering parasites, they need goods to trade to make things work, they're so lazy they use thier pets to kill things and can't really do anything without them.

Beastmasters will sell anyone down the river but thier own kind, they refuse to integrate with the rest of the FFXI community and preffer to have thier own linkshells and gathering places and would exclude anyone not a bst, why do we put up with this? a change needs to be made, and something needs to be done about these parasites once and for all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zinato

BST has become the first widespread case of Racism within the game. I've even begun seeing made up slang for BST as a job, and people verbally attack both the player character and the person at the keyboard, many times without any form of provoking.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lafaiel

Beastmasters will sell anyone down the river but their own kind, they refuse to integrate with the rest of the FFXI community and prefer to have their own linkshells and gathering places and would exclude anyone not a BST, why do we put up with this? a change needs to be made, and something needs to be done about these parasites once and for all.

---

I want you to take a moment read what you said, remove Beastmaster and FFXI, now insert any race/belief or for that matter any type of person where BST would be. Now imagine saying that in a public place where people overhear you, what do you think they might be thinking? You not only just attacked the job but the people's play styles/personalities and therefore the people themselves. You are welcome to be upset that BST farms Dynamis you are welcome to be upset you've been out-claimed. However, it is this type of ignorance that screws the game up for everyone BST or otherwise. Think about what you post in the future, a comment/attitude like that said in Port Jeuno could get you GM jailed in game, or repeated offenses get you banned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lafaiel

you never see bst crafting or trying to grow anything, its a simple fact that they're wandering parasites, they need goods to trade to make things work, they're so lazy they use thier pets to kill things and can't really do anything without them.

---

Ignorance that's really all I have to say about that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lafaiel

This is how the little bst's start out, they see the other bst do it so they learn from them, you never see bst crafting or trying to grow anything, its a simple fact that they're wandering parasites, they need goods to trade to make things work, they're so lazy they use thier pets to kill things and can't really do anything without them.

Beastmasters will sell anyone down the river but thier own kind, they refuse to integrate with the rest of the FFXI community and preffer to have thier own linkshells and gathering places and would exclude anyone not a bst, why do we put up with this? a change needs to be made, and something needs to be done about these parasites once and for all.

---

I hope this is satire. If it is, it's brilliant, it's a little dark selecting something from the repertoire of Hermann Göring...

If it's not satire, I am a little disturbed as it's something right out of Hermann Göring's repertoire...