Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Link to your character. I am a proud Abyssea leech and yet I believe there is a good chance I am less gimp than you. If this is untrue, I will apologise.

The only people I've seen bitch about Abyssea leeching so far are those who do nothing in Abyssea but exp... or in the game for that matter.

EDIT: To be clear, I don't view myself as some undefeatable god of FFXI. Just if you want to cast a net calling countless people gimp, you had best have the strength to tie us up in it. There are many better players than me who Abyssea leech also - I am simply the first to make this challenge by coincidence, not because I view myself as top of the pile.

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That's pretty much it, they wont, because they are gimps.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

I really dont get it why those players are so obsessed by leeching.
We dont want remove Abyssea, we just want to raise the entrace level to 70-75.
There is nothing wrong at that idea.
You still got your Abyssea and still can get EXP in there, you still get your pimp armors.
Its just one point we try to stop, the leeching, and for all those who are against this idea, the only thing they show us that they are gimp player, becouse they so intensively try to prevent the stoping of cheap leeching.
ANYONE who argues against the raise of the entrance level just wants to keep cheap leeching up his Jobs. Nothing else stands behind them Idea to keep the low Level entrance.
And it doesnt matter if you played for years in ffxi the old fashion way, now you are a leecher, nothing more.

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Or instead of sitting on your high horse and trying to change the way other people level their jobs. You could get people who share your own opinion and make parties in the older areas; because nothing is stopping you from doing so. While your trying to force; your way of thinking and opinions upon the rest of the community and that's just going to get people mad with you. Because abyssea exists and the cap is 30; is it somehow blocking you from zoning into old areas? Is the existance of the level minimum somehow from shouting in Port Jeuno to get five others who would like a cool-down and old-style party?

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Link to your character. I am a proud Abyssea leech and yet I believe there is a good chance I am less gimp than you. If this is untrue, I will apologise.

The only people I've seen bitch about Abyssea leeching so far are those who do nothing in Abyssea but exp... or in the game for that matter.

EDIT: To be clear, I don't view myself as some undefeatable god of FFXI. Just if you want to cast a net calling countless people gimp, you had best have the strength to tie us up in it. There are many better players than me who Abyssea leech also - I am simply the first to make this challenge by coincidence, not because I view myself as top of the pile.

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And there you show us the gimp noob you are, dont you get it? Its not how much jobs or what kind of gear you have that shows if you are a noob. Every noob can have good gear in Abyssea leeching.
Showing your char here makes it look like a gimp noob who bargs with its char.
And you are changing the subject becouse you cant argue against the point that we just want to change the entrance level for Abyssea to 70+, becouse then you lose all your substanze and show us that you are only against it becouse you are a leech who doesnt want to play the old fashion way.
I have no reason to show my char here becouse i dislike such arrogant exibithion.
I got two accounts and can even PL myself but i mostly dislike that becouse i prefer to level in nice pts.

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Originally Posted by Komori

Or instead of sitting on your high horse and trying to change the way other people level their jobs. You could get people who share your own opinion and make parties in the older areas; because nothing is stopping you from doing so. While your trying to force; your way of thinking and opinions upon the rest of the community and that's just going to get people mad with you. Because abyssea exists and the cap is 30; is it somehow blocking you from zoning into old areas? Is the existance of the level minimum somehow from shouting in Port Jeuno to get five others who would like a cool-down and old-style party?

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And again a subject change, noone of you can argue against the leeching factor and that is the only way why you want it level 30, istead of that you try to insult me that i do not find ppl for partyes.
I already sayd that i find them, thats not my main problem, my problem is the leeching and it could be easy removed by raising the entrance level, yet again you lose nothing, you still can go in Abyssea, and do all the abyssea things, just not with level 30, a Level 1-69 has nothing to do in Abyssea becouse you can do nothing in there, try to kill a Mob.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

That's pretty much it, they wont, because they are gimps.

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We dont do it becouse we are no poser, Leechers are posers.
And thats why you try to change the subject.
Becouse if we take everything away from your acc you got trough leeching there will not much be left.

So "noob" or "gimp" = "doesn't agree with my philosophy"? Gotcha.

I didn't argue because we've already stated our points many, many times but:

No, we do not want to play the game the old way again. I levelled five jobs back the "old way" and it was generally tedious as hell. Taking months to be able to do something that isn't mindless exping? Popular job or gtfo mentality? "Need to exp, let's put aside my free time for today" again? Remember that sinking feeling when a potentially good setup is ruined by that gimp as hell full AF SAM who unfortunately just became your sixth member? Bard or gtfo?

You have a reason to show your character here because you are making unsubstantiated strong assertions. What happens when it turns out that a large majority of the "gimp" and "noob" crowd turn out to be better than you? What does that make you?

tl;dr: Abyssea exp isn't perfect but it has a lot less flaws than the previous exping system. Terrible players hurt old exp far more than leechers hurt present exp.

Defend yourself or withdraw your baseless claims, your choice.

Lol. I can still do old-school type parties. Whether or not it changes doesn't matter to me. I'll continue playing the game. And what do you lose by the cap being raised to 70? Some people don't even use their lower level jobs to leech in abyssea but to do quests because it won't matter if they die on the job or not because it's not a main. Most of the people that leech are people that have already gone through the game before abyssea. We're not the ones being all righteous and putting others down because they don't feel like going through months of leveling another job just to use it in endgame because they've already done it for 1-6 jobs already.

But that doesn't matter, right? As long as everyone does everything your way? What's your Credit Card number? So you can start paying my subscription and then I'll level the old way all you want.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

And again a subject change, noone of you can argue against the leeching factor and that is the only way why you want it level 30, istead of that you try to insult me that i do not find ppl for partyes.
I already sayd that i find them, thats not my main problem, my problem is the leeching and it could be easy removed by raising the entrance level, yet again you lose nothing, you still can go in Abyssea, and do all the abyssea things, just not with level 30, a Level 1-69 has nothing to do in Abyssea becouse you can do nothing in there, try to kill a Mob.

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You care too much about exping!

Exping is just a means to an end, a process by which you can then play the meat of the content. If exping is a huge part of the game to you, you're just a level grinder. That's a perfectly valid way of playing, but for the sake of most of us who enjoy playing the game rather than grinding experience, do us a favour and stop trying to impose your views on us.

Thanks.

And again, i will not show my char in an extern Forum becouse i do not pose.

Well we do not care if you dislike the old way of expeing, it was and will be the only correct way, leeching never was correct and never will be and thats our statement and thats why SE will sooner or later raise the cap, whatever you say will not stop them.
The only way they whouldnt want to raise it is becouse they whould want to kill FFXI to make FFXIV more popular.
I never had problems to get a party with any kind of job. So there must we have been the mistake by your way of play.
You are just overstate the problems of old and only correct way of leveling.
Leeching is not Leveling, its cheating and thats why SE need to prohibide it.

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Originally Posted by Komori

Lol. I can still do old-school type parties. Whether or not it changes doesn't matter to me. I'll continue playing the game. And what do you lose by the cap being raised to 70? Some people don't even use their lower level jobs to leech in abyssea but to do quests because it won't matter if they die on the job or not because it's not a main. Most of the people that leech are people that have already gone through the game before abyssea. We're not the ones being all righteous and putting others down because they don't feel like going through months of leveling another job just to use it in endgame because they've already done it for 1-6 jobs already.

But that doesn't matter, right? As long as everyone does everything your way? What's your Credit Card number? So you can start paying my subscription and then I'll level the old way all you want.

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Then do Old-shool type partys, if you still can do them. Dont be a leecher.
You say you arent? Well why does it then bother you that we want to raise the entrance level, if you do ot leech it doesnt affect you in any way.

Just like SE fixed SMN burns? SE is not going to go against the majority for the minority and german players. It goes to "Should I displease the majority and lose all of their money and settle for the smallest monthly gain possible and enforce "justice"? Or should I keep most people happy and not worry about the small money loss from the minority who isn't happy with people having a choice"?

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Leeching is not Leveling, its cheating and thats why SE need to prohibide it.

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If it was cheating, don't you think SE would have put a stop to it by now? It has been this way for several months...

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Well we do not care if you dislike the old way of expeing, it was and will be the only correct way, leeching never was correct and never will be and thats our statement and thats why SE will sooner or later raise the cap, whatever you say will not stop them.

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It is only incorrect to YOU. SE have said nothing, nada, zilch, zero to suggest otherwise - has anyone ever been warned or banned for leeching? Can you find me an SE quote stating that leeching is wrong? What do you think about Astral Burning? Protip: that's allowed as per SE rules and people disrupting it actually received disciplinary action.

SE set the cap at 30 and chose to both place a temporary exp cap on lower level players while allowing them to receive full exp from chests. The entire system is designed so lower levels begin with a penalty but can level that way - it's most likely completely intentional. The Dominion Ops actually scale to a minimum level, suggesting SE encourages the use of these methods for exping.

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I never had problems to get a party with any kind of job. So there must we have been the mistake by your way of play.

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75 cap BLM/THF/PLD/DRK/BST/RNG/SMN/BLU/PUP/SCH had no problem at all getting invites? The only reason you'd typically take one of these jobs was because you lacked the favoured ones.

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You are just overstate the problems of old and only correct way of leveling.
Leeching is not Leveling, its cheating and thats why SE need to prohibide it.

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Again, only to you. SE have said nothing of the sort. Not only does it make you a complete idiot to assert a completely incorrect point like this, but it makes you something else - a poser.

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Originally Posted by Komori

Just like SE fixed SMN burns?

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SE fixed SMN burns by letting people go into abyssea at 30 and leech. xD

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

You care too much about exping!

Exping is just a means to an end, a process by which you can then play the meat of the content. If exping is a huge part of the game to you, you're just a level grinder. That's a perfectly valid way of playing, but for the sake of most of us who enjoy playing the game rather than grinding experience, do us a favour and stop trying to impose your views on us.

Thanks.

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Why do you think endgame is called endgame? Yes becouse you do it at the "End of the game" after alot of time of playing and leveling. Not: you enter the game play 2 weeks to Level 30 and go into Endgame Abyssea and get up to 90.
Anyways you can still do it, just without leeching jobs up, a entrance level 70 will make all resolved.
No more leeching and you can have fun in Abyssea, too bad if you dont have a job 70 then but thats life, thats why you need to play a while before you can reach endgame.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

We dont do it becouse we are no poser, Leechers are posers.
And thats why you try to change the subject.
Becouse if we take everything away from your acc you got trough leeching there will not much be left.

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Actually I have never leeched. I just don't think that it's important to bitch and complain about raising the cap to try and make myself feel special.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, this thread is nothing more than lazy people complaining about lazy people. People who are too lazy to put together a party find themselves in parties with leeches. These same people bitch non stop in alli about it.

Simple solution: If you don't like the level 30 level restriction then start your own Abyssea groups and don't invite the level 30s. If you are too lazy to make your own party than shut the hell up about it.

Try an argument that doesn't use your own arbitrary definitions. Leeching is not cheating and there is no "proper" way to level. Choice is just that.

The game you want to play and the game 99% of other people enjoy playing are not the same game. You are the minority and should stop trying to impose your views on us.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Simple solution: If you don't like the level 30 level restriction then start your own Abyssea groups and don't invite the level 30s. If you are too lazy to make your own party than shut the hell up about it.

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But but how other people exp influences my gameplay so greatly! How dare people be able to enjoy all of the jobs they want to play?!

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Originally Posted by Komori

Just like SE fixed SMN burns? SE is not going to go against the majority for the minority and german players. It goes to "Should I displease the majority and lose all of their money and settle for the smallest monthly gain possible and enforce "justice"? Or should I keep most people happy and not worry about the small money loss from the minority who isn't happy with people having a choice"?

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And what makes you so sure that you are majority?
As i can see its only in the English forum 3-8 ppl yelling for constant level 30 Abyssea, sure the leechers yell mostly if it goes for loosing them fundation of playing.

The german Forum ist neraly all against leeching and a raise for the level, and thats around 20 players just in the forum.
On my server my whole LS is against leeching, and we got another 50 ppl.
And im sure that if SE makes a survey there will be enough responses, even i bet that the leechers then again will yell mostly becouse even they are only 10 they write more than 100 non-leechers, becouse it goes for them foundation.
We need no leechers into the game, gtfo the game.

Vote yes for Abyssea access above level 70!

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Actually I have never leeched. I just don't think that it's important to bitch and complain about raising the cap to try and make myself feel special.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, this thread is nothing more than lazy people complaining about lazy people. People who are too lazy to put together a party find themselves in parties with leeches. These same people bitch non stop in alli about it.

Simple solution: If you don't like the level 30 level restriction then start your own Abyssea groups and don't invite the level 30s. If you are too lazy to make your own party than shut the hell up about it.

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Vivik, i have no problem with finding pts, i have a problem with leechers, there is no place for them into the game.
And it hurt noone of the player who want to do abyssea if you raise the Access to level 70. It only hurts the Leechers, and you can only hit the right one in that bag.

Your LS is a social LS, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Vivik, i have no problem with finding pts, i have a problem with leechers, there is no place for them into the game.
And it hurt noone of the player who want to do abyssea if you raise the Access to level 70. It only hurts the Leechers, and you can only hit the right one in that bag.

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Obviously if SE made it so people level 30+ can be in Abyssea, there is a place for them in the game. Lets be clear and just say; there is no place for them in your game, because after all you are the minority.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Your LS is a social LS, isn't it?

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Why are you going out of th subject, since when does it matter if its a social ls, a level ls, a HNM ls,....

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Why are you going out of th subject, since when does it matter if its a social ls, a level ls, a HNM ls,....

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Because most social LS are full of amateurs.

Because a social LS typically (not meaning to stereotype, but generally) has a demographic of players whose ingame life tends to be little more than exping. To them, of course Abyssea leeching is going to seem like a "cop out" because it's the only thing they do in the game. Players tend to be very low tier with horrendous gear etc.

The game should not be changed for a small but vocal minority who happen to think exping is the only thing in it.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Obviously if SE made it so people level 30+ can be in Abyssea, there is a place for them in the game. Lets be clear and just say; there is no place for them in your game, because after all you are the minority.

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Yet again there is no prove that i am the minority, its just in this forum so becouse leechers lose evertything if they change it back. SE made a mistake, it is not the first time, eighter they did it becouse they want to kill FFXI themselves for the sake of FFXIV or they did it accidently and will remove it sooner or later. Since there is a new leading head to the team they did alot mistakes, alot of the new AF3 look cheap like someone from Silkroad had created them, the own fashion style of FFXI got lost, and same goes for gameplay, the old Gameplay got lost becouse they made a radical change.
Thats why they are trying everything to get ppl back into other areas, atm they have no luck, that why it will result in a access for Abyssea above level 70.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Because a social LS typically (not meaning to stereotype, but generally) has a demographic of players whose ingame life tends to be little more than exping. To them, of course Abyssea leeching is going to seem like a "cop out" because it's the only thing they do in the game. Players tend to be very low tier with horrendous gear etc.

The game should not be changed for a small but vocal minority who happen to think exping is the only thing in it.

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Well, you guessed wrong, it is an Abyssea LS.
Yes we do Abyssea, as i sayd we are not against Abyssea, just against leeching.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Yet again there is no prove that i am the minority, its just in this forum so becouse leechers lose evertything if they change it back. SE made a mistake, it is not the first time, eighter they did it becouse they want to kill FFXI themselves for the sake of FFXIV or they did it accidently and will remove it sooner or later. Since there is a new leading head to the team they did alot mistakes, alot of the new AF3 look cheap like someone from Silkroad had created them, the own fashion style of FFXI got lost, and same goes for gameplay, the old Gameplay got lost becouse they made a radical change.

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So now it's just a grand conspiracy by SE? I see lol...

Subjective and arbitrary arguments again. Use a line of reasoning which isn't "it is wrong" and instead "I think it's wrong because ---". There are some valid problems with the Abyssea exp system and I'm not claiming it's perfect, but if you feel or SE feels they want to stop it, they should make the alternatives better than it - not force you into doing the alternatives instead.

As for the minority issue, so far the most vocal posters have been Naturebeckles, Krystal and yourself. There have been a few other people but nothing huge.

I'm going to restate my challenge:

if you have a serious problem with Abyssea leeching and exping this way, irrelevant of whether Abyssea-age FFXI or Abyssea-age FFXI is best in your mind (ie ignore everything but the exping front) and you consider yourself above average, participating in events which are not exping on a regular basis and are fairly accomplished - please post. As a generalisation, nobody I have seen who isn't gimp or who doesn't see exping as the main focus of the game find a problem with this.

Arrogance? Yes. I am waiting for someone to answer my challenge with evidence though.

EDIT:

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Well, you guessed wrong, it is an Abyssea LS.

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Abyssea LS and Social LS are not mutually exclusive in today's day and age. There are always a huge number of terrible players in Abyssea killing things which are not experience points mobs.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

it is an Abyssea LS.

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Just another name for a social LS.

There are plenty of people that don't really contribute even when they are on a level 90 job.

Read this and believe it:
* Abyssea parties require at most three DDs.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

And there you show us the gimp noob you are, dont you get it? Its not how much jobs or what kind of gear you have that shows if you are a noob. Every noob can have good gear in Abyssea leeching.
Showing your char here makes it look like a gimp noob who bargs with its char.
And you are changing the subject becouse you cant argue against the point that we just want to change the entrance level for Abyssea to 70+, becouse then you lose all your substanze and show us that you are only against it becouse you are a leech who doesnt want to play the old fashion way.
I have no reason to show my char here becouse i dislike such arrogant exibithion.
I got two accounts and can even PL myself but i mostly dislike that becouse i prefer to level in nice pts.

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I wont ask you to show your char, I'll just ask you a basic question:

DO you swap gear?

Swapping gear is for posers. It is not RIGHT. SE will surely change it soon.

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Originally Posted by hiko

I wont ask you to show your char, I'll just ask you a basic question:

DO you swap gear?

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I swap gear with my friends all the time, damnit!

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Originally Posted by Vivik

So now it's just a grand conspiracy by SE? I see lol...

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Oh horrible of me to think so.
Sure, big cooperations lasiting on greed and money never make conspiracy(hidden changes)/strategies to sell them product better. Sure the guy who sells the toilet paper doesnt make the hot chilli that burns out your intestines so you need to use half of the toilet roll.
Im very sorry that i ever thought of SE could want to make money.
/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Yet again there is no prove that i am the minority, its just in this forum so becouse leechers lose evertything if they change it back. SE made a mistake, it is not the first time, eighter they did it becouse they want to kill FFXI themselves for the sake of FFXIV or they did it accidently and will remove it sooner or later. Since there is a new leading head to the team they did alot mistakes, alot of the new AF3 look cheap like someone from Silkroad had created them, the own fashion style of FFXI got lost, and same goes for gameplay, the old Gameplay got lost becouse they made a radical change.
Thats why they are trying everything to get ppl back into other areas, atm they have no luck, that why it will result in a access for Abyssea above level 70.

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you are not minority = lot of players dont like abyssea leeching and want old style pt = you can easily build old school pt

is that the case? no, =you are minority

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Originally Posted by hiko

I wont ask you to show your char, I'll just ask you a basic question:

DO you swap gear?

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I swap my gear with macros, but not with other players, depending on what kind of swap you thought.
Sometimes i transfer gear from my account A to account B.

Abyssea at level 30 is wrong becouse:
-it makes 90% the regular areas empty
-it malfuntions the AH. Check low level Armors
-it partly decarases the number of good players
-it makes the game basic only on a simple one way stroke
-all ppl will have all jobs 90, redicioleus, you have to chose a Job, and then next one, and not offer all. Its just too easy to get all Jobs 90 but still being bad at them and not even having the skills.
-it decarases the quality of the game compared to how it has been before(but this is my opionion)

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Oh horrible of me to think so.
Sure, big cooperations lasiting on greed and money never make conspiracy(hidden changes)/strategies to sell them product better. Sure the guy who sells the toilet paper doesnt make the hot chilli that burns out your intestines so you need to use half of the toilet roll.
Im very sorry that i ever thought of SE could want to make money.
/sarcasm

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Do you also wear tin foil hats?

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Originally Posted by hiko

you are not minority = lot of players dont like abyssea leeching and want old style pt = you can easily build old school pt

is that the case? no, =you are minority

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You missed the Point, i got no problems to get a party setup together, im against leeching in any form.
So I am against abyssea access at level 30.