Mud Spikes, Wind Spikes, and Aqua Spikes

no my good sir. You have lost the argument, but your pride does not allow you to Admit it. You are the one who does not understand. Your best argument is quoting Swords from page 1, and Even I've debunked that.

Now you're making 1-liner Responses and Ignoring my very long very informative post about 3 replies up on the Difference between "Things that seem the same" and "Things that fall into the same Category". Which completely invalidates all your arguments up to this point.

Karb,

Reflect would work. Or some kind of enfeeble barrier. Whatever a PLD would most benefit from without being game breaking.

Also, Rambus,

I think the issue might be semantics. 'Spikes' is perhaps the easiest term to use to refer to a line of elemental based spells that hasn't been given a specific name. If Aquaveil, Stoneskin and Blink were actually spikes SE would have called them so, they can't call a set of what's half spikes, half buffs, spikes, because as already established, they're not spikes. What's being argued is not that they're spikes by any kind of strict definition, but they belong to the same line of spells people are calling 'spikes' because it's a simple collective term that ought to theoretically flow the conversation better, even if inaccurate, but it's not an uncommon use of language.


As for Dark/Light, they are elements, yes, and DRK gets dread spikes. This only creates argument for PLD to get their own exclusive spell in the same line of magic. Who knows, they probably didn't think they needed to include dark and light elements at first because they either couldn't think what to do with it or couldn't find a use for them - or at least not until later levels (would dread spikes be a suitable level 30 spell?). If they were making up JUST elemental spikes, they would have done the whole wheel, it seems it was intentional to not do the whole wheel in just spikes, but only half of it, leaving the other half to offer resistance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

no my good sir. You have lost the argument, but your pride does not allow you to Admit it. You are the one who does not understand. Your best argument is quoting Swords from page 1, and Even I've debunked that.

Now you're making 1-liner Responses and Ignoring my very long very informative post about 3 replies up on the Difference between "Things that seem the same" and "Things that fall into the same Category". Which completely invalidates all your arguments up to this point.

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that is your view, be honest i am right, it is very simple, you can only have one spike effect on you.

stoneskin blink and aquaviel stack on spikes

then there is this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Swords

I think some don't grasp the concept of "Spikes" as a general game term, not exclusively pertaining to FFXI's spike spells.

Spike terms in games, originated from items like Spike breastplate or spiked shield. Any time you tried to attack someone with such armor, you stood a decent chance of being impaled or injured by the spikes if they were to bash or tackle you. So in game terms, there is no such thing as a defensive "Spikes" unless it retaliates with damage in some way. I don't think I would mind seeing new forms of spike spells, but I'm not sure they would be practical where many of the newer NM's have become increasingly resistant or immune to debuffs.

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you are in your own world, i lost agurment, lol ok

Again, Your best Argument is Quoting Swords. Good job. you're best debate is Semantics over what Spikes means.

To other guy:
Yeah, Reflect Wouldn't be awful. If the Accuracy was based on the PLDs Spell, most nukes would resist/suck so its not too broken.

Edit: Sorry if my responses slow, In Limbus. Thanks

I am going to explain this as slow as i can:

when you cast reprisal you gain it's effect, then you have shiva or sub blm or w/e and cast ice spikes it overdies reprisal
so reprisal is light spikes, like how you can only have one en spell on your slef, it is the same line of spells.

same with shock spikes or any form of spikes spell you can only have one on yourself

then....:
stoneskin blink and aquaviel stack on spikes

there is muli forms of stoneskin and blink, you also have a different wind buff called haste.

Quoting him is not my strongest agurement, this point is.

i do not know why you bring in Semantics, i think that is what you are trying to do

it is illogical to have 5-7 forms of stoneskin, 4-6 forms of blink, 3 forms of ice spikes, 2 forms of thunder spikes, 1 form of aquavail and 1 form of fire spikes and say they are in the same family.

you have en spells, and en II spells they are the same family

Yah, You just don't get it. You really don't. I'm done arguing with you. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Edit: I should probably note so you stop wasting your time. You are now the first addition to my Block list! yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Party!

*Ceremonial Music*
*Cheesy Inspirational music*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rambus

that is your view, be honest i am right, it is very simple, you can only have one spike effect on you.

stoneskin blink and aquaviel stack on spikes

then there is this:


you are in your own world, i lost agurment, lol ok

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To be fair. Aquaveil/Stoneskin/Blink are stackable because stacking them offers no conflict because their elements aren't effecting any damage dealt to the enemy. The reason spikes don't stack is because you can't have two elements in effect at once, the same with en-spells and the same with weather spells. It doesn't mean they're to be treated as a separate line of spells, it was already suggested that they've been split to be half offensive, half defensive. So naturally, there's going to be a few differences. It also makes sense in that SE hasn't done any other spikes, when logically, if their line of spells were JUST spikes, then we'd see them for each element, like with helices. It would appear that SE went another way with that one. I know people keep using 'spikes' to umbrella blink/aquaveil/stoneskin and the spikes spells, but as I've said, it's just semantics, so I think defining 'spikes' is necessary to the conversation, it's just down to how language sometimes works - a term is used to umbrella something outside of its definition for ease of conversation, it has already been stated what is being talked about, so ideally, people ought to be able to understand what is meant - or at least I didn't have any difficulty understanding when I entered this thread.


But what it should really be about is: should SE offer fire/thunder/ice based defensive spells and should they offer water/earth/air offensive spikes? I think as said, it ought work both ways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Yah, You just don't get it. You really don't.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Enjoy living in your own crazy knowledge-less imaginary world where you can never be wrong.

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I would not derail this with you to show how illogical you are if i was wrong.

you do understand bars, songs etc etc have elements right?

how come there is 8 en spells but 3 spikes?

etc etc, so illogical and unfounded claim.

it was also illrevlent to the thread, noodles first post, should never been stated to wind up here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

To be fair. Aquaveil/Stoneskin/Blink are stackable because stacking them offers no conflict because their elements aren't effecting any damage dealt to the enemy.

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more reason they are not "spike family"

Quote:

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But what it should really be about is: should SE offer fire/thunder/ice based defensive spells and should they offer water/earth/air offensive spikes? I think as said, it ought work both ways.

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already exists

I think this has gone past the point of a debate on ideas for potential spikes spells, but rather become a "I'm right, your wrong. My ideas are brilliant, yours are dumb" debate, at least that's kind of what it seems to have turned into.

Rambus my explanation of spikes spells was entirely for clarification, which I kind of hoped would make them think it was simply just a matter of differing opinions on what exactally counts as a spike spell and resolve the dispute.

It doesn't really matter wether or not Blink, Stoneskin, and Aquaviel were intended as a "spike" spell in SE's eyes, they are there and avaliable for use. It doesn't really matter if we really do need more spike spells or not. Nothing wrong with wishful thinking or throwing new ideas out there to try and make the game more interesting, it's not like the idea was game breaking after all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

But what it should really be about is: should SE offer fire/thunder/ice based defensive spells and should they offer water/earth/air offensive spikes? I think as said, it ought work both ways.

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i wouldn't be opposed to this. Its just difficult giving meaningful non-damaging buffs to Thunder, Fire, and ice spells. The "wind/etc Spikes" would be simple, its the other side of the Balance that would be difficult.

For instance, Ice could add a Resistance to magic, but we have shell for that. However, Defensive buffs are hard to imagine when just about everything is covered. Though it could become "Offensive Self-buffs", but also the "Wind/Water/Earth" Spikes could do Defensive things. Example.

"Earth Spikes" = Does no Damage. inflicts Enemy With Slow when hit
"Wind Spikes" = Does no damage, Weighs target Down when hit
"Water Spikes" = Does no Damage, Poisons Target when hit

"Thunder buff" = Increases Critical hit Rate Small Amount (5%)
"Ice Buff" = Increases Magic Attack a Small Amount (5MAB)
"Fire Buff" = Increases Attack a Small Amount. (5% attack)


So the 3 "offensive" types get a "Defensive/offense Buff" while the 3 "Defensive types" get a "Defensive Spikes".

I'm wording this weird but i think you see where I'm going.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Rambus:



So Ice Spikes, Shock Spikes and Blaze Spikes aren't in same family, as there's 3 types of ice spikes, but only 1 form of blaze spikes?

Though you are right about reprisal. It is a part of the same family. Offers a form of reflect and a defensive buff for shield use.

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You know, You just thought of something i didn't. Its not a completed Circled.

Wind = Blink
Earth = Stoneskin
Water = Aquaviel
Ice = Ice Spikes
Thunder = Shock Spikes
Fire = Blaze Spikes
Light = Reprisal
Dark = Dread Spikes

Circle completed!

Rambus:

Quote:

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it is illogical to have 5-7 forms of stoneskin, 4-6 forms of blink, 3 forms of ice spikes, 2 forms of thunder spikes, 1 form of aquavail and 1 form of fire spikes and say they are in the same family.

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So Ice Spikes, Shock Spikes and Blaze Spikes aren't in same family, as there's 3 types of ice spikes, but only 1 form of blaze spikes?

Though you are right about reprisal. It is a part of the same family. Offers a form of reflect and a defensive buff for shield use.

you do know there is thunder, fire, ice buffs exist already ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Rambus:



So Ice Spikes, Shock Spikes and Blaze Spikes aren't in same family, as there's 3 types of ice spikes, but only 1 form of blaze spikes?

Though you are right about reprisal. It is a part of the same family. Offers a form of reflect and a defensive buff for shield use.

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there is not a from of spikes that lasts for 30 seconds. true i see your point though, can't really replay to it.

I do not understand why other buffs have define lines but people are trying to claim all over the place buffs with this claim.

hard to explain this, i am trying to say i do not get how one can view a famliy of spells with huge different fuctions.

I like how this thread I made completely restarted arguments that have already been settled/talked about, while ignoring those discussions because of Karbuncle not reading the thread. We went over possible "defensive" buffs for fire/ice/lightning before you posted.

Summary:

"Offensive' SET of Elemental Buffs
Blaze Spikes (Fire)
Ice Spikes (Ice)
Shock Spikes (Lightning)

I want to expand this SET to include the other 3 elements.

"Defensive" SET of Elemental Buffs
Aquaveil (Water)
Stoneskin (Earth)
Blink (Wind)

I want to expand this SET to include the other 3 elements.

Light vs. Dark

"Offensive" SET of Elemental Buffs Additions to the game at a later time (Because SE can do that, hence the entire idea behind the thread?).

Dread Spikes (Dark)
Reprisal (Light)

"Defensive" SET of Elemental Buffs

Phalanx (Light)

What we are truly missing is a Dark based Defensive buff, not a light one. Yes, it wasn't ORIGINALLY for PLD but SE can CHANGE things and ADD things to COMPLETE SETS of spells.

I really don't care about "facts" on the matter when all of them have contradictions to counter with (Phalanx), nor do I care about "NO! Phalanx is just light because there's no such thing as non-elemental spells!" nor "Light and Dark count!" as those are extremely silly "arguments" which I've been over, time and time again. Using them to call yourself right is relatively sad. You can take offense if you want but they are still piss-poor attempts at knocking them down just to be right.

We done having this stupid argument all over again? Can we get back to actually talking about the topic (I'm assuming no but maybe I'll be surprised?)?

I don't know what you think i was arguing, But it was that the idea of Elemental Spikes for Water, Wind, and Earth were dumb ideas, and technically the "spike/buff" version of those elements were present in the form of Blink, Stoneskin, and Aquaviel.

I stand by that argument.

That being said. I Don't agree with the Ideas presented. They are not necessary, Though they would be kinda nice. Back in my noob days i always wondered why we didn't have spikes for those three elements, then i put 2-2 Together and remembered Aquav/Blink/Stones. But It would have been interesting.

(Btw I've already said all of this below, For someone claiming i didn't read, You sure didn't see the part where i Already made Suggestions for "Spikes" for these Elements. For the purpose of Discusssion I'll repeat them)

I think "Earth Spikes" (Mud is stupid) would consist of "Low Damage: Added Effect Slow on hits." wouldn't be bad.
The Wind Spikes, Perhaps could Gravity on hit, Maybe do some damage. and Water Spikes could Poison.

Truthfully, I Originally had them doing no damage, Just Debuffs. But small Damage + Debuffs wouldn't be too bad. I think "Wind Spikes" Actually should be the "pure damage" of the three, Similar to Blaze Spikes.

But then to maintain Balance, We would need to think/create 3 For Lightning, Ice, and Fire in terms of "Defensive Abilities" with no offense. Which is difficult. Because a lot of buffs are already there.

Well I tossed my Idea. Seem to be the same as yours.

But the hard part is naming buffs for the Other 3 Elements (Fire, Thunder, and Ice) so each one has a complete set of 6.

Now, There is another thing, Wouldn't it be better of making 1 of them "pure Damage" Similar to Blaze spikes? perhaps... Perhaps not. back then the only "fire" debuff was Virus, Plague, etc. Didn't have Amnesia. Today we have Debuffs easily for Water/Stone/Wind, So maybe not.

Tough call.

Gonna re-emphasize my earlier post, since this was the point at which Rambus started going off. All my ideas always get buried.

You were looking for suggestions for the different buffs, Krabknuckle, so here's what I had in mind for both "spikes" and "defensive" spells to complete the core elemental circle (with edits from discussions)

Quote:

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Offensive Spikes
Aqua Spikes - Covers you with magical water spikes. Enemies that hit you take water damage. Additional Effect: May inflict Poison on attacking enemies.

Gale Spikes - Covers you with magical wind spikes. Enemies that hit you take wind damage.
~Note: This would be comparable to the other spikes as blaze spikes is to ice/shock spikes at the moment; higher overall damage due to lack of additional effect.

Terra Spikes - Covers you with magical earth spikes. Enemies that hit you take earth damage. Additional Effect: May inflict Slow on attacking enemies.

Defensive Spells
Resonance (Thunder-based): Creates an aura that copies an opponent's offensive spell and counters with it.
~Notes: The user would still take damage; otherwise this would just be a buffed Blink because blink can absorb single-targets. Would only copy two spells, identical to blink. AoEs would be reflected in an AoE around the target, which means that you'd have to be very careful with use.
~Edited note: Would have to not affect certain spells, i.e. Death, etc, otherwise it could be potentially OP. Maybe limit it to spells players can normally cast? That would prevent Meteor/Comet Counters, etc.

Bravery (Fire-Based): Increases the attack power of one target.
~Notes: Would be affected by Accession like any other spell, making it more useful with a /SCH subjob. Would be a smaller boost based on the user's Enhancing Magic Skill but still useful.

Faith (Ice-Based): Increases the magical attack power of one target.
~Notes: Think of this as the magical version of Bravery, adding perhaps a small amount of MAB based on the user's Enhancing Magic.

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Just in case you missed it, I felt that these were potential ideas. Mind you they'd need tweaking, but I think it'd be a decent place to start if we were to pursue this train of thought.

Actually, over at BG i suggested Attack and magic Attack increases for Fire/Ice, The Spikes are very similar to the OP's, Its makes sense.

Now the Fire/Thund/Ice Defensive Buffs, Those are Wonderful, Well thought out Ideas with Coherent logical Patterns and thought behind them. Its Amazing what a little time spent can accomplish.

I especially like the Naming. It takes itself from Previous FF games. It fits the Style. Really good job. in fact >.> They're just so awesome i could actually seem them being reasonable to add some day. I mean, I really doubt the Dev team will add any of them any time soon because it seems their responses lately are "yah We're already doing that" or "Ain't happening Til the calender is over". So we Either have to think they're already implementing this, Or we'll get it sometime in 2012 :o

the idea of "Defensive Spells" is to defend, not to attack and like i said before we have lots of attack buffs.

I was trying to come up with defensive spells that would be new to the game and have applcation for a 99 game.

Fire barrier:
lowers magic damage done to the person.
the hidden notes of this spell would be that it makes your INT vaule in defence higher so unlike MDT you are reducing magic damage at the core (first thing in damage damage is int difference)
the idea of this was to go along the logic lines of burn, burn lowers INT.

ice block:
incases the caster in a block of ice, that makes the user unable to take any action, in retrun, they cannot take any damage for the time it is up (self target, would be a defender move for mages)
*problem with this is that manawall gives this effect, sotra

plasma shield:
lowers effectiveness of Enfeebling magic:

*so when you get Paralyze, it happens less often, a different effect of bars that just heighten resist rates and partial resists. shock lowers mind, and most Enfeebling magic is a mind check.

Noctowall:
An otherworld of energy surrounds the target taking less critical hit damage, grants some max hp, some mp, some magic defense (MDB not MDT) , and some PDT. The PDT bonus would work outside of cap, so be light maybe 5-10% extra PDT.

*idea of notcowall sems from past FF "wall" spell that grants people protect and shell, furthermore it fits in current FFXI concepts where dark affinity grants increases in all stats.

now you can have your gale spikes, aqua spikes and terra spikes without people going omg elements

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I don't know what you think i was arguing, But it was that the idea of Elemental Spikes for Water, Wind, and Earth were dumb ideas, and technically the "spike/buff" version of those elements were present in the form of Blink, Stoneskin, and Aquaviel.

I stand by that argument.

That being said. I Don't agree with the Ideas presented. They are not necessary, Though they would be kinda nice. Back in my noob days i always wondered why we didn't have spikes for those three elements, then i put 2-2 Together and remembered Aquav/Blink/Stones. But It would have been interesting.

(Btw I've already said all of this below, For someone claiming i didn't read, You sure didn't see the part where i Already made Suggestions for "Spikes" for these Elements. For the purpose of Discusssion I'll repeat them)

I think "Earth Spikes" (Mud is stupid) would consist of "Low Damage: Added Effect Slow on hits." wouldn't be bad.
The Wind Spikes, Perhaps could Gravity on hit, Maybe do some damage. and Water Spikes could Poison.

Truthfully, I Originally had them doing no damage, Just Debuffs. But small Damage + Debuffs wouldn't be too bad. I think "Wind Spikes" Actually should be the "pure damage" of the three, Similar to Blaze Spikes.

But then to maintain Balance, We would need to think/create 3 For Lightning, Ice, and Fire in terms of "Defensive Abilities" with no offense. Which is difficult. Because a lot of buffs are already there.

Well I tossed my Idea. Seem to be the same as yours.

But the hard part is naming buffs for the Other 3 Elements (Fire, Thunder, and Ice) so each one has a complete set of 6.

Now, There is another thing, Wouldn't it be better of making 1 of them "pure Damage" Similar to Blaze spikes? perhaps... Perhaps not. back then the only "fire" debuff was Virus, Plague, etc. Didn't have Amnesia. Today we have Debuffs easily for Water/Stone/Wind, So maybe not.

Tough call.

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You think the ideas for wind/earth/water based spikes is a dumb idea at the same time thinking that it would be interesting, and then tossed your idea (that is practically identical, which you later affirmed in the same post) on the matter. It's a tad confusing/contradictory from this angle.

Anyway, I came up with the name "Mud" Spikes because it causes slow. As in....walking through mud...slows you down. Dumb, I know but it fit and Stone Spikes sounded wrong. That being said, Kensagaku came up with a better name for both Wind Spikes and Mud Spikes in Gale Spikes and Terra Spikes.

As for the pure damage idea, this seems like a bad idea. No one really uses blaze spikes once they have ice spikes because it gives no potential debuffs. If Gale Spikes were pure damage, they would have to do a noticably higher degree of damage and would be highly prone to being overpowered. I believe that's why SE gave ice and shock spikes the potential debuffs so as to not overpower them (this of course is a matter of opinion and not confirmed fact, theory at best). As for the potential enfeeble, I have been leaning toward the gravity potential, as it seems the least potentially overpowered enfeeble to add to the Gale Spikes idea. Dancer gets Gravity in the form of Desperate Flourish, that isn't nearly as good as the spell but still has it's uses. The same logic can be applied here to Gale Spikes causing a potential Gravity effect, which would be nice for kiting.

As for the 3 buffs for the other elements (fire/lightning/ice), I presented some off the top of my head ideas and Kensagaku (see above) ran a bit further with them. Resonance was originally Reflect and ice based but, it appears he changed it to lightning based after some discussion on the matter with the conflicting idea for the previously lightning based idea of Faith as the spell. Faith being a magic attack bonus buff, it was determined it would fit better as an ice based spell in lieu of reflect (though not entirely necessary: sparked discussions about "exceptions" to the "rules" on status effects being a specific element).

The fire based buff was/is the hardest one to come up with. Bravery seems to be the top-contender but there have been some other ideas such as Regain (but didn't want to step on SAM [Meditate = Regain Ability], SCH, or COR's toes, but this is more of a placebo argument on it, as Faith could very well step on other job's toes as well.). Potency was another idea for a Lightning based spell to increase critical hit rate.

Anyway:
Stoneskin = Earth = VIT
Blink = Wind = AGI
Aquaveil = Water = MND
Bravery or Regain = Fire = STR
Faith or Reflect = Ice = INT
Potency or Resonance = Lightning = DEX

DEX/thunder is acc/ crt hits

regain is light, SCH have a spell already

light is all stats/ or chr only ( depending what you look at)
dark is all stats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rambus

the idea of "Defensive Spells" is to defend, not to attack and like i said before we have lots of attack buffs.

I was trying to come up with defensive spells that would be new to the game and have applcation for a 99 game.

Fire barrier:
lowers magic damage done to the person.
the hidden notes of this spell would be that it makes your INT vaule in defence higher so unlike MDT you are reducing magic damage at the core (first thing in damage damage is int difference)
the idea of this was to go along the logic lines of burn, burn lowers INT.

ice block:
incases the caster in a block of ice, that makes the user unable to take any action, in retrun, they cannot take any damage for the time it is up (self target, would be a defender move for mages)
*problem with this is that manawall gives this effect, sotra

plasma shield:
lowers effectiveness of Enfeebling magic:

*so when you get Paralyze, it happens less often, a different effect of bars that just heighten resist rates and partial resists. shock lowers mind, and most Enfeebling magic is a mind check.

Noctowall:
An otherworld of energy surrounds the target taking less critical hit damage, grants some max hp, some mp, some magic defense (MDB not MDT) , and some PDT. The PDT bonus would work outside of cap, so be light maybe 5-10% extra PDT.

*idea of notcowall sems from past FF "wall" spell that grants people protect and shell, furthermore it fits in current FFXI concepts where dark affinity grants increases in all stats.

now you can have your gale spikes, aqua spikes and terra spikes without people going omg elements

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Eh, I don't really have a problem with the fire one off the top of my head, but the other three...

The ice one? You're creating an invincible for mages, and since it's only used in panic moments, it would probably have to be fairly fast cast. This could be potentially abused by TAing a lot of hate onto said mage, having them put up invincible, and heyo, invincible non-acting tank.

Plasma shield - How would this work? Why would it reduce the effectiveness of status ailments? The RP aspect of it aside, giving a "Resist All I" trait via spell seems way OP, especially when we have spells for individual resistances that don't stack with each other (element on element or debuff v. debuff... you can have barparalyze/barblizzard up at the same time, for example).

Noctowall - Waaaaaaay OP. Too many buffs for a single "defensive" spell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Eh, I don't really have a problem with the fire one off the top of my head, but the other three...

The ice one? You're creating an invincible for mages, and since it's only used in panic moments, it would probably have to be fairly fast cast. This could be potentially abused by TAing a lot of hate onto said mage, having them put up invincible, and heyo, invincible non-acting tank.

Plasma shield - How would this work? Why would it reduce the effectiveness of status ailments? The RP aspect of it aside, giving a "Resist All I" trait via spell seems way OP, especially when we have spells for individual resistances that don't stack with each other (element on element or debuff v. debuff... you can have barparalyze/barblizzard up at the same time, for example).

Noctowall - Waaaaaaay OP. Too many buffs for a single "defensive" spell.

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ice one i admit it is more stolen from wow, it has a long recast and for like 7 seconds you can't move or take damage, I really cannot come up with some type of ice defence that already exists

the thunder one is for Enfeebling magic cast on you, like say para is procing on you ever 2 seconds, it would make it happen every 4 seconds or something, ill lower the effectiveness rate, so it does not conflict with bars and what they do. (like the fire one with int, it is like making your mnd check higher when you go though the formula) so it is like the shock defender, like my fire idea was based off burn.

as far as nocowall hay you want a true 99 game right? I could say you will have a need for it to take on 99 endgame, ya OP for current state that is why i noted more for 99 game

I like the idea of Bravery and Faith, especially if Faith were to stack with Ebullience and Bravery to stack with COR rolls and BRD songs, I don't think it's necessarily stepping on a jobs' toes when effects stack, hence COR and BRD don't really step on each other's toes - I've been in a party with both stacking ATT and ACC bonuses and it was insane, then again how many parties invite both? I'm not sure what to go with, the Thunder Element Plasma Shield, maybe, it is similar to something I suggested earlier, where enfeebles are resisted, which I'd probably scrap for Magic Shield (suggestion below) as Magic Shield would be able to do the same thing, and more. If it easing the burden like making paralyze hit less often, it'd be different enough to warrant another buff, but I think I'm more likely to cast paralyna or erase.

On the Dark Side - maybe have Magic Shield, I know BLU has Magic Barrier, but I don't see it doing any damage in giving a version to other mages. It already is Dark Elemental. Magic Barrier is over written by Stoneskin, which is fair - you might cast Magic Shield instead of Stoneskin if facing an arcane mob or one who likes to use enfeebling effects, including dispel. Like Stoneskin it'd be target-self only and can be AoE'd by Accession.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Urteil

RDM doesn't need shit.

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Oh yes they do. RDM takes a long time to kill monsters, making it a not-very-speedy job to level up solo. RDM doesn't have any really good weapon skills, either.

I think RDM should at least be able to solo skillchains and magic bursts. How? It would be loads of fun.

First of all, RDM would need a whole set of elemental weapon skills that at least equate with Burning Blade. So you'd have Dirty Blade, Splashing Blade, Tornado Blade, Burning Blade, Freezing Blade, Shocking Blade, Shining Blade, and Condemnation Blade or something for the dark element.

This could work a couple of different ways. You could use Enfire II, then use a Fire-based weapon skill, followed by a fire spell for both a skillchain and a magic burst so we can kill more quickly.

Or, even more creative: Use Enfire II, then cast a water spell on the mob, then cast a Thunder spell. Since he's all wet, the thunder spell SHOULD burst, logically.

Or using Enthunder II, then a Water spell would cause Enthunder II to do more damage.

Shock your monster by first using Fire, then Blizzard for twice the damage as normal. Or Stone, then Aero for twice the damage as normal.

Somewhat of a necro post, but I wan't to make it clear why I believe the 6 spells Aquaviel, Stoneskin, Blink, Blaze Spikes, Ice Spikes and Shock Spikes were introduced as one set of spells.

I would like to start by stating that I don't think it is either good posting technique, or manners to purely state "you're wrong" in response to an opinion. Regarding a proven fact? Like 2+2=5? That's fine. But not an opinion such as the one being discussed. In this post I will give a mildly-detailed explanation to my opinion that they are the same group of spells. I find it both rude and offsneive that You, Rambus, keep shouting "you're wrong". In the end, none of us truely know what was SE's intent. Was it a group of 3 spells? Or a group of 6? (Remembering that Reprisal/Drain Spikes were added at a later date, and we must look back to their original implamentation). You have no more right to say they are a group of 3 spells, than I do to say they are a group of 6. The fact you believe you do is quite distressing. Your logic is that they all have the word "Spikes" in the name. That's a fair point, but you never even asked me what my view was for stating I believed Aquaviel/Blink/Stoneskin were alread Water/Wind/Earth "Spikes".

Anyway, moving on. Here was the logic for my statement that the 6 spells form one group:
Blaze Spikes: Surrounding yourself in a wall of Tire.
Shock Spikes: Surrounding yourself in a wall of Thunder.
Ice Spikes: Surrounding yourself in a wall of Ice.
Blink: Surrounding yourself in a wall of Wind.
Aquaviel: Surrounding yourself in a wall of Water.
Stoneskin: Surrounding yourself in a wall of Stone.

If you touch fire, you will burn (hurt) yourself, thus this spell damages the attacker.
If you touch an electrical field, you will get shocked, leading to a stun affect.
If you touch a wall of ice, your hand will get cold and may stop functioning ("frozen solid"), leading to the closest affect in the game: paralysis.
If you try to touch a blowing wind, it is likely the wind will blow your arm off-course causing you to miss. A shadow affect represents this.
If you touch a wall of rock, you wont do anything to yourself, but it will be sturdy and difficult to break through.
If you touch a wall of water, your movements will become slower and softer (ever tried punching someone underwater?). Longer attacks mean more time for the defendant to concentrate, leading to spell interupt +.

You see? If you concider the 6 spells as putting up elemental defensive barriers around yourself, the idea is not so difficult to grasp. My opinion that this was SE's original intend has merit, and to simply dismiss it so quickly and so rudely, especially after going on your holy crusade is pretty poor to be honest.