So are they banning people on the brew holds?

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Originally Posted by Afrohatch

They said it's working as intended, though~

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They said the same about the Salvage stuff too until someone decided to embarrass Square-Enix outside of the game.

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Originally Posted by rog

You would have a better chance suing every cop/police station.

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If I had standing to do so, but the Supreme Court has already made a decision on that...

(Specifically, that the cops have no obligation to protect you whatsoever...)

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Originally Posted by Miera

I don't see the wrong in Salvage duping, its a mistake on SE's part, why should someone get punished for a mistake SE made? Besides they are using their Assault Points to purchase said access if people want to go brew happy by all means let them, they'll eventually run out of Assault Points.

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The more things change, the more the cheaters/enablers stay the same.

Way to go, twisting other people's words Starcade. How very mature of you.

Again, please post a link to where an SE representative said that the Salvage duping was a known mechanic and by design.

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Originally Posted by Sayelle

You're just tilting at windmills again...

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Considering the audience here, I'm not surprised you think that.

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Originally Posted by Sayelle

Were you dropped on your head as a child, perhaps multiple times. That's the only thing that I can figure out that would cause you to be so delusional.

If you were to have your way we'd still be stuck back in the stone ages getting exp at 3k/hr with only paladins as tanks because that's the way that SE intended it.

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Better that than have everybody cheat their butts off.

Final Fantasy was never meant to be an "easy" franchise.

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Originally Posted by Sayelle

We wouldn't have Nin or /nin blink tanking since SE didn't consider the possibility of spamming utsusemi as a way to avoid to damage. Just because SE didn't intend for a certain gameplay mechanic to be used in a different way doesn't mean that it violates the TOS.

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Actually, it used to. And for that specific wording of the definition of an exploit (it was Q12652, if my memory serves). That, in fact, was the specific definition of an exploit -- an action taken outside of intended gameplay use.

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Originally Posted by Sayelle

Pretty much every innovation in game strategy came from some one finding a new and unique way to use the game mechanics that SE most likely had not considered. At that point SE will come out and say if the new tactic is legit or not. In this case they have specifically said that they know about using NPC interactions to stop the brew timer and they are completely fine with it at this time.

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And here's the problem with that: Many of the most prominent players were eventually banned because of an exploit that they were told (and it was well-known to the endgame community that it was) that it was completely fine at this time.

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Originally Posted by Sayelle

Despite what your delusional brain tells you, you are not the person who gets to determine what is an exploit in the game, that is left up SE. You seriously need to go get some help for your obvious mental disorders.

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Actually, I think the problem is that Square-Enix sticks their finger into the wind and decides on that basis, rather than an actual investigation of the situation.

Mods, is it legal for me to post such information -- or is this enabler trying to lay a trap?

I'm either being ignored, or Starcade has put me on ignore list. Not like it matters one way or another, it's as clear as day that he is convinced he's been chosen to go on a holy crusade against anyone who does something he disapproves of in this game. I feel sorry for you, playing a game that's supposed to be fun and entertaining, out of sheer spite. You must be one bitter, bitter man.

I'm not ignoring you, cheat-enabler.

I'm just suspicious you're trying to pull something.

The facts are -- and they were very well-known -- that Square-Enix, through the GMs, had known about the Salvage duping for at least EIGHTEEN MONTHS before actually trying to do something about it. This (as well as Salvage duping itself) was basically known to EVERYONE DOING SALVAGE SERIOUSLY.

(One of the reasons, frankly, I'd have terminated Salvage completely and removed all of it from the game almost 2 1/2 years ago.)

You still haven't posted a link as I asked for. I would like to see something that proves SE said Salvage duping was a known mechanic and by design. I'm not denying that they knew about it well before they actually did something about it, I just want to know where they said it was ok, and then did a 180 and banned people for it.

And just a fyi - I never took part in Salvage dupings at all (in fact I didn't know about it until the bans hit), and I have never paused a brew by interacting with a NPC in game. Cheat-enabler? lol, just lol.

I was so annoyed noone told me about that bard campaign XP exploit until after it was removed. I would have loved the free merit points, would have saved me weeks of work.

Exploits are not a bannable offense UNTIL they are announced as such, they are simply someone thinking their way past a door developers never contemplated or thought they had shut. Use 'em until told not to, then don't get caught!

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

I was so annoyed noone told me about that bard campaign XP exploit until after it was removed. I would have loved the free merit points, would have saved me weeks of work.

Exploits are not a bannable offense UNTIL they are announced as such, they are simply someone thinking their way past a door developers never contemplated or thought they had shut. Use 'em until told not to, then don't get caught!

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Then the Salvage banned have a case to tell Square-Enix to go screw.

No. You are WRONG about when exploits become bannable.

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Originally Posted by rog

fixed that for you.

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FoVs been around 8 yrs Rog.

I think holding a brew is ban-worthy, but not 6 months ban-worthy.

For situations like that, it should fall on the developers to fix the exploit first and foremost. If they're incapable of fixing it, then they should warn players against exploiting the bug that they can not fix.

After that, bans are appropriate. Six months though, that's entirely too harsh.

They know about it, at the moment, it is working by design, it might change in the future, that's it. Until they say they are changing how brew works when interacting with NPC, it isn't an exploit that's bannable for.

If we're going to actually try to tag me, get your spelling right...

What you want on me is a STRAITJACKET...

Morons...

And I see more of the cheaters' arrogance. If what you were claiming were any degree of true, there's about 1,000 cheating pieces of... who want all their Salvage gear back.

I just love locking brew timers; you can always find a way! With the addition of the Magian Trial Log specs you have a portable brew locking device which is obviously the best use of the specs. Now excuse me while I go be extremely efficient.

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Originally Posted by Kazen

I just love cheating; you can always find a way! With the addition of the Magian Trial Log specs you have a portable cheating device which is obviously the best use of the specs.(screw trials they're too easy with my bots doing it for me) Now excuse me while I go be extremely lazy & cheap.

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FIFY.

I can't wait to see cheaters like you permanently banned.

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Originally Posted by Tohihroyu

FIFY.

I can't wait to see cheaters like you permanently banned.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6SXAPCdRi0

Aww how cute Windower cheaters are mad at me ^.^

You wont be laughing when SE actually dose something & bans the lot of you, you make it so horribly easy! bragging about the cheats, the bots, the exploits they may as well call it shooting fish in a barrel.

Then again most of the big time botters are more then likely paying SE lots of clink clink so they can stay for a little longer till the staff smartens up & lays the ban hammer down.

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Originally Posted by Tohihroyu

FIFY.

I can't wait to see cheaters like you permanently banned.

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Too easy. I've never once used a bot in FFXI ever. I think it might be in your best interests to take a break from this game seeing how emotional this game makes you. I say this only because I'm sure people like you; people that get so worked up and emotional over the things that others do in a video game that does not pertain to you probably has some effects on your blood pressure.

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Originally Posted by Tohihroyu

are mad

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I can't wait to see cheaters like you permanently banned.

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Who was mad brah?

fap moar @ Galka

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bragging about the cheats, the bots, the exploits they may as well call it shooting fish in a barrel.

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Except the part where the developers said it was working as intended and not an exploit, lol

All I'm gonna say is until people actually get banned from this, brew holds will still be done. I'm not gonna argue if its cheating or not, but i will say even if people cant brew hold, that doesn't change the fact that most people have enough cruor to buy maybe 10-15 brews. So really, it doesn't really matter if they can hold the brew or not.

How can anyone say brew holding is cheating when SE has said it is a known mechanic and by design? They have outright said "it is ok to brew hold at the moment, however we might change how this works in the future". How is that cheating? Is it cheating just because you don't like the fact that people do it?

This thread is still going? Rep said it was fine, same way they said AB was fine and nobody got banned for it.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

This thread is still going? Rep said it was fine, same way they said AB was fine and nobody got banned for it.

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Exactly.

However, some people on here can't seem to get that fact through their thick skulls.
"OMG YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING SE HAS SAID IS OK, BUT I DON'T LIKE THAT YOU'RE DOING IT YOU CHEATER!!"

SE makes the rules and chooses how to enforce them. They've said this is not against the rules. I don't understand why anyone would continue to discuss the "legality" of this.

If you're going to be against Brew-holding, you'd have to come at it from an "I'm against brewing in general" standpoint and work outwards.

It pretty much comes down to people not bothering to read past the OP and then posting a reply. I absolutely cannot fathom anyone who had bothered to read past page 2 of this thread actually thinking Brew holding is "an exploit".

GMs did not say "We know about this and it's okay for now". GMs said "This is intentional."

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I absolutely cannot fathom anyone who had bothered to read past page 2 of this thread actually thinking Brew holding is "an exploit".

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Nor can I understand how people continue to rage about it - or raged in the first place! I mean c'mon. It's a form of entertainment. None of it matters. And yet people rage about it to the extent they threaten violence, and insist their main reason for "playing" is some sort of moral victory! Moral victory over what? You want to run a moral crusade? There are infinitely better targets for it than this. "Yeah man I know the world is full of human rights abuses, corrupt governments, and all that bad jazz, BUT OMG THESE PEOPLE ARE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME IN A WAY I DO NOT AGREE WITH AND THIS IS WORTHY OF MY RAGE AND TIME!!!".

Grow up.

So when is Square-Enix going to get it and understand that my presence in FFXI is probably:

"Threatening and does not contribute to the discussion."

Hey, Square-Enix... I've been banned from basically everything in this game but these forums and the game itself.

If the social nature of this game is THAT important to you that you are going to deliberately turn your back on fair play to keep "the customers" happy, then you have but one alternative: My removal from FFXI.

I will not "contribute to the discussion" of a playerbase hell-bent on the creation of a cheat-fest.

I would be far more "Threatening" in that concept than anything said here so far.

If you are that dead-set on allowing these people to run over your game, then you don't want me on it.

It has nothing to do with you playing FFXI or not playing FFXI as they do not care either way. When you make a threat it will get deleted. Maybe you're too thick to realize that you made a threat against SE but that's the only reason your post got removed.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

It pretty much comes down to people not bothering to read past the OP and then posting a reply. I absolutely cannot fathom anyone who had bothered to read past page 2 of this thread actually thinking Brew holding is "an exploit".

GMs did not say "We know about this and it's okay for now". GMs said "This is intentional."

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And you, as an apologist, continue not to realize that it was not intentional as anything more than to allow for the player to, for valid purpose, use NPC's, etc., without burning the time.

It WAS NOT intentional for the players to EXPLOIT that concept to allow for an indefinite brew time.

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Originally Posted by Kazen

It has nothing to do with you playing FFXI or not playing FFXI as they do not care either way. When you make a threat it will get deleted. Maybe you're too thick to realize that you made a threat against SE but that's the only reason your post got removed.

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Perhaps that's the only thing SE will listen to. Embarrassing them outside the game sphere was the only means by which they did the Salvage bans in the first place.

It's either going to be the cheaters or it's going to be me.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

And you, as an apologist, continue not to realize that it was not intentional as anything more than to allow for the player to, for valid purpose, use NPC's, etc., without burning the time.

It WAS NOT intentional for the players to EXPLOIT that concept to allow for an indefinite brew time.

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What part of "it is working as intended" do you not understand?

What are they gonna do? "Oh hey yea, that is the way it's supposed to work" 2 months later "oh hey, we said it was supposed to work that way, but you're banned now!"

Oh yes, because using "threats" against a multi-million dollar corporation who doesn't give two shits about you on a personal level will be effective.

By using your logic, they can either keep you as an individual happy or they can keep a much larger majority of the player-base happy. It's not really much of a stretch here to see which they're going to pick being a corporation whose purpose is to make a profit.

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Originally Posted by Kazen

Oh yes, because using "threats" against a multi-million dollar corporation who doesn't give two shits about you on a personal level will be effective.

By using your logic, they can either keep you as an individual happy or they can keep a much larger majority of the player-base happy. It's not really much of a stretch here to see which they're going to pick being a corporation whose purpose is to make a profit.

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More like "to defraud the customers". The American Way in action...

If they don't give a darn about the way people play the game, then those of us who spend our $12.95/mo need to know that so we can take it into account.

The only reason I play this game at all is to spit at that concept and all it stands for. Square-Enix is going to have to make that choice.

It's too bad this game is stagnating where the power structure which killed this game at 75 is going to take care of the rest of it.

I think starcade ran out of his ritalin or xanax or whatever they feed the crazy people.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

What part of "it is working as intended" do you not understand?

What are they gonna do? "Oh hey yea, that is the way it's supposed to work" 2 months later "oh hey, we said it was supposed to work that way, but you're banned now!"

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What part of "they use that excuse to justify the cheaters when the cheaters go far beyond that concept" do YOU not understand?

Under your interpretation of "working as intended", why is there a 3 minute time limit at all for Brew?

(And please tell me that guy in the sig is not you. If it is, turn in your Man Card.)

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Originally Posted by Henihhi

I think starcade ran out of his ritalin or xanax or whatever they feed the crazy people.

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No, in your eyes, they ran out of "straight jackets". [sic]

I don't agree with you, so I'm crazy by definition.

Don't think I don't know how it works.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

What part of "they use that excuse to justify the cheaters when the cheaters go far beyond that concept" do YOU not understand?

Under your interpretation of "working as intended", why is there a 3 minute time limit at all for Brew?

(And please tell me that guy in the sig is not you. If it is, turn in your Man Card.)

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I'd like for you to answer the question that was presented to you.

Since you like to compare to salvage so much, I can guarantee you if you were tripling drops and called a GM and told them about it, they would not say that things were working as intended.