A Suggestion From The Pet Job Community: Stop Ignoring Us and Listen To Our Plea.

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Originally Posted by WoW

Yes, but I feel that bst are what they are; a job that uses animals to aid them in combat. Our pets are stronger than their wild counterparts. food, songs, geo, rolls is a little excessive imo. I am on board with all of this, however, you can play content on any job you please; it has more to do with the community more-so than the devs (imo). For instance, Run can tank (differently than Nin and pld), pet jobs can DD (differently than most). A fully buffed pet + unleash alliance + Dawns may equal abuse. Imagine what a lvl 119 tiger or scorpion jug spamming their ready moves could do. Fun times, but it may be a little too much.

I agree with Grim to an extent; but imo; bst are one step away from being overpowered; hence is why Falcorr mysteriously won the poll over the scorpion..hmmm. Can you imagine a fully buffed army of scorpions with songs, rolls, Geo spells, and food. Sharp Strike + death scissor spam with unleash..........Wow. I am a career bst and I am not going to front; a scorpion jug with all of that will be overpowered; there is no way it could not be....combine that with ruinator.

Again, I am not arguing with you guys/gals idea's; I just do not see it happening. I want this too; I am a bst; would love to be overpowered (Rawr)^^

Personally, I want that scorpion jug that we should have gotten; I will be happy with that. SE should also take a page from monstrosity in regard to our jug pet's tp usage. That ready meter is meh.....

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Have you tried difficult, very difficult, or delve content on bst? The master can hit but the pet can't. I just don't see how anyone could be satisfied with a job that can't do anything against high level content. Honestly even if people were to start using bst strategies to fight monsters because they're slightly overpowered, I'd welcome it. It's a better option than bst not being used at all ever., and it would open doors to different strategies with pet jobs. Pet jobs used to be used all the time in high level content to beat down tough monsters like Kirin back at 75 cap, and now they amount to nothing. If you feel ok with the position bst is in then I respect that but to me and probably the rest of us, we'd like to see pet jobs integrated back into high level content. A pet should be as strong or stronger than a player because that's the way it had always been. Only after the level cap from 75 to 119 did pets become weaker than players and the pets because the development team forgot to keep pets up to date.

Also I just can't agree that pets jobs are not used because of negative connotations. I have the best gear pup can get including kenkonken (119 mythic) and divinator (119 pet) and capped pet accuracy.With the best gear, my pet still can't do anything in high level content. When I was fighting aa mithra on difficult, my rng pet didn't even get 50 tp the entire fight and died about 10 times. If I have the best gear and my pet still can't do anything, something isn't right.

The negative connotations are because pet jobs can't compete with other jobs. Our jobs are holding us back from group content and not negative connotations. Most of the elite ffxi players who create the strategies to defeat high level content are number crunchers. You can look up online and find dps charts to calculate top damage dealing jobs. You'll find that when you equip pet jobs with the best gear vs normal jobs, they always fall behind damage wise in comparison to other jobs, especially bst. I'm not getting how you feel bst is already overpowered because when I look at the numbers, they put out little damage. Even when I play bst, it's damage and playability is really just unsatisfying in comparison to jobs like mnk in high level content.

I remember pet jobs being encouraged for group content like VW and Abyssea, then bam SoA comes along, and I wonder wth happened to make them fall behind so much. Everything is so gimmicky and time-based now, even BLUs, RDMs, THFs, NINs, and DNCs aren't feeling the love right now either in the name of efficiency. 16 out of 22 jobs shouldn't be made to feel like they are for solo play/low level content only. Why give us all this ilvl 115-119 gear if all we're good for is soloing reives?

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

Have you tried difficult, very difficult, or delve content on bst? The master can hit but the pet can't. I just don't see how anyone could be satisfied with a job that can't do anything against high level content. Honestly even if people were to start using bst strategies to fight monsters because they're slightly overpowered, I'd welcome it. It's a better option than bst not being used at all ever., and it would open doors to different strategies with pet jobs. Pet jobs used to be used all the time in high level content to beat down tough monsters like Kirin back at 75 cap, and now they amount to nothing. If you feel ok with the position bst is in then I respect that but to me and probably the rest of us, we'd like to see pet jobs integrated back into high level content. A pet should be as strong or stronger than a player because that's the way it had always been. Only after the level cap from 75 to 119 did pets become weaker than players and the pets because the development team forgot to keep pets up to date.

Also I just can't agree that pets jobs are not used because of negative connotations. I have the best gear pup can get including kenkonken (119 mythic) and divinator (119 pet) and capped pet accuracy.With the best gear, my pet still can't do anything in high level content. When I was fighting aa mithra on difficult, my rng pet didn't even get 50 tp the entire fight and died about 10 times. If I have the best gear and my pet still can't do anything, something isn't right.

The negative connotations are because pet jobs can't compete with other jobs. Our jobs are holding us back from group content and not negative connotations. Most of the elite ffxi players who create the strategies to defeat high level content are number crunchers. You can look up online and find dps charts to calculate top damage dealing jobs. You'll find that when you equip pet jobs with the best gear vs normal jobs, they always fall behind damage wise in comparison to other jobs, especially bst. I'm not getting how you feel bst is already overpowered because when I look at the numbers, they put out little damage. Even when I play bst, it's damage and playability is really just unsatisfying in comparison to jobs like mnk in high level content.

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Fair enough, but overpowering them may not be the answer. The negative connotations do exist; Lolpup existed pre-delve despite its efficacy. Ppl also believed that ninjas could not hold hate lvl in early lvls, but i was one of the crazy ppl that tossed shurikens and had no issues holding hate. Pet job enthusiast like me and you may welcome this, but that will make other jobs expendable. Why heal a Sam when you can just unleash and dawn the boss until it dies?

If they were to buff the pets beyond belief just for the sake of very difficult content; these jobs may become broken on content outside of difficult/very difficult. Also, if pets were stronger than the master; that may equate to two efficient dds. Actually, a dd that is stronger than a bst alone are sams, wars, rngs, etc, so essentially, we have a pocket lvl119 uber dd. Ruinator is one of the best ws in the game; add that to a pet that is stronger than the master and you have a pocket 119 war. If they ever decide to add the scorpion jug; other dds might as well pack it up, you are not needed; scorpion jug + unleash + dawns please.

I mean think about it....scorpions have been in the game since like, what? day one? Why have they not been implemented as pets yet? They even allowed us to call uncharmable mobs before they implemented a scorpion. Imo, they fear bst; that scorpion jug alone will take bst over the top without the suggestions in this thread. Missions have no difficulty settings; thus a bst could solo through these with ease; no group needed.

They can increase pet acc, however, just release a pet JA ability, similar to focus.

Imo, not all mobs are created equal; that is just one issue. As you mentioned, accuracy can be a problem; to an extent. This, added to the pets that they have chosen to give us. Scorpions and Hippos may be the best dd. The hippo we received is stronger than its wild counterpart, however, its' best trait was taken away (Fantod + Ws). Also, Give us a tp bar similar to monstrosity; get rid of the ready crap.

Unleash has to be taken into account when boosting these pets; this is one of the most unique two hrs; it is a jug away from being overpowered. Bst is not perfect, i just believe that these suggestions are a little too much.

I haven't played BST in forever and had no idea about those things. But you have to admit, it's fun to dream about a situation like you describe isn't it? ;p Imagine the day when shouts say "pet jobs only," like a Revenge of the Nerds-type satisfaction. lol
But Jinzha stated his/her PUP is geared to the max and still underperforms. That is inexcusable, and makes striving for those high-level items pointless.

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Originally Posted by WoW

Unleash has to be taken into account when boosting these pets; this is one of the most unique two hrs; it is a jug away from being overpowered. Bst is not perfect, i just believe that these suggestions are a little too much.

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It's basically the same thing as smns sp2... and it would take a jug that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than what we got now to make it overpowered by comparison. I mean best ready move is going to do what 2-3k on anything over 100 meanwhile smns bping for 15-20k <.<

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Originally Posted by WoW

Fair enough, but overpowering them may not be the answer. The negative connotations do exist; Lolpup existed pre-delve despite its efficacy. Ppl also believed that ninjas could not hold hate lvl in early lvls, but i was one of the crazy ppl that tossed shurikens and had no issues holding hate. Pet job enthusiast like me and you may welcome this, but that will make other jobs expendable. Why heal a Sam when you can just unleash and dawn the boss until it dies?

If they were to buff the pets beyond belief just for the sake of very difficult content; these jobs may become broken on content outside of difficult/very difficult. Also, if pets were stronger than the master; that may equate to two efficient dds. Actually, a dd that is stronger than a bst alone are sams, wars, rngs, etc, so essentially, we have a pocket lvl119 uber dd. Ruinator is one of the best ws in the game; add that to a pet that is stronger than the master and you have a pocket 119 war. If they ever decide to add the scorpion jug; other dds might as well pack it up, you are not needed; scorpion jug + unleash + dawns please.

I mean think about it....scorpions have been in the game since like, what? day one? Why have they not been implemented as pets yet? They even allowed us to call uncharmable mobs before they implemented a scorpion. Imo, they fear bst; that scorpion jug alone will take bst over the top without the suggestions in this thread. Missions have no difficulty settings; thus a bst could solo through these with ease; no group needed.

They can increase pet acc, however, just release a pet JA ability, similar to focus.

Imo, not all mobs are created equal; that is just one issue. As you mentioned, accuracy can be a problem; to an extent. This, added to the pets that they have chosen to give us. Scorpions and Hippos may be the best dd. The hippo we received is stronger than its wild counterpart, however, its' best trait was taken away (Fantod + Ws). Also, Give us a tp bar similar to monstrosity; get rid of the ready crap.

Unleash has to be taken into account when boosting these pets; this is one of the most unique two hrs; it is a jug away from being overpowered. Bst is not perfect, i just believe that these suggestions are a little too much.

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Grimlocke mentioned the same thing that pet jobs will become overpowered outside of group content with the implementation of the OP suggestions and I'll say it again. Pet jobs won't be stronger outside of group content based off of the adding cures and songs /rolls to pets because you must have people with you in order to receive the benefits. Any player who has access to cures and buffs outside of high level group content will be overpowered regardless if it's a normal job or a pet job so I don't believe it is giving any unfair advantages.
But honestly allowing pets to receive buffs and food effects are what I really want. I don't believe anyone can argue that a pet job will become overpowered with the those two implementations because that's just accuracy and haste that pets should have had from the start. The only controversial thing this thread is asking for is pets being able to receive cures. I do believe that pets should be able to receive cures because it would alleviate all the high costs of pet cures and Muslims while also increasing their survivability, but I could live without it. In the end, all I want is a solution to pets accuracy issue and surviving issues.

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Originally Posted by dasva

It's basically the same thing as smns sp2... and it would take a jug that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than what we got now to make it overpowered by comparison. I mean best ready move is going to do what 2-3k on anything over 100 meanwhile smns bping for 15-20k <.<

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Ya and if summoner's 1 hour hasn't been nurfed, I'm sure the game developers aren't too worried about bst 1 hour being overpowered, even with scorpion, buffs, and cures. And say they do add scorpion, they might not even let you use death scissors or its other top tier moves. It wouldn't be the first time they nurfed a jug pet so it wasn't overpowered.

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Originally Posted by dasva

It's basically the same thing as smns sp2... and it would take a jug that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than what we got now to make it overpowered by comparison. I mean best ready move is going to do what 2-3k on anything over 100 meanwhile smns bping for 15-20k <.<

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That will change drastically with the addition of scorpion jugs or the aforementioned pet buffs; I mean, food, songs, rolls, Geo spells, lol. Imagine a tiger or a scorpion with all of that. Sharp strike and spam death scissors. Keep in mind the master is a DD as well. Smns are not dds, the pets are.

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

Grimlocke mentioned the same thing that pet jobs will become overpowered outside of group content with the implementation of the OP suggestions and I'll say it again. Pet jobs won't be stronger outside of group content based off of the adding cures and songs /rolls to pets because you must have people with you in order to receive the benefits. Any player who has access to cures and buffs outside of high level group content will be overpowered regardless if it's a normal job or a pet job so I don't believe it is giving any unfair advantages.
But honestly allowing pets to receive buffs and food effects are what I really want. I don't believe anyone can argue that a pet job will become overpowered with the those two implementations because that's just accuracy and haste that pets should have had from the start. The only controversial thing this thread is asking for is pets being able to receive cures. I do believe that pets should be able to receive cures because it would alleviate all the high costs of pet cures and Muslims while also increasing their survivability, but I could live without it. In the end, all I want is a solution to pets accuracy issue and surviving issues.

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Trust npcs, friends, dual boxing, however, I will give you that.

I ask you this though, with all those buffs and unleash; would you need any other dd? If so, why? Pets are much safer than a sam going ham on a boss.

Bst do not feel this is overpowered; because pet jobs are the beneficiaries and they believe they have been in the gutter for years; as Mitruya mentioned; it would be cool to look down on other jobs. However, an update like this would kill off every non pet dd, now we are back to square one. How do we balance non-pet jobs to compete with pet jobs? Pets can be boosted, but this may be a little too much imo (As a bst, I hope they do it, but why would they kill off other dds)? In exp parties, a pet with food, brd,cor, geo, would destroy any other dd; due to the master being able to dish out damage.

Imo, just give us a scorpion jug, more pet JAs (Useful ones, acc, att, magic att, defense bonus) and get rid of the ready bar and give us a monstrosity esque tp system. The long awaited scorpion jug would never get released if they were to implement such a buff. Again, what dd could compete with a scorpion using food, buffs, sharp strike, and death scissors. Not to mention the master is a respectable dd.

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

Ya and if summoner's 1 hour hasn't been nurfed, I'm sure the game developers aren't too worried about bst 1 hour being overpowered, even with scorpion, buffs, and cures. And say they do add scorpion, they might not even let you use death scissors or its other top tier moves. It wouldn't be the first time they nurfed a jug pet so it wasn't overpowered.

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Then why release it? You basically have a jug with what...poison sting? Breath attacks? scorpions are what? dark or War type mobs; not very durable, therefore it will have no use by the bst community. I will give you this, a scorpion without death scissors will not be overpowered; even with the aforementioned buffs, it would be rather weak, thus ppl would stick to the overpowered tiger or birdie making the scorpion implementation obsolete.This is by far my biggest grip with bst; the removal of useful traits. If they will not even give us native mob abilities, I do not see them letting us use food and buffs.

Edit: Other top tier moves could include sharp strike making the scorp trash compared to other pets; even the capped ones.

I would like to see a dev response to this when applicable; it appears to be an interesting topic nonetheless. I am just curious if there are any future plans for pet jobs or perhaps that scorpion jug that won the poll awhile ago "Wink".

Dear dev/community team - why is this thread being ignored?

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Originally Posted by Olor

Dear dev/community team - why is this thread being ignored?

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Requesting same information, and would like something more detailed than the usual "we have no plans" response.

Can Camate or one of the other community reps just respond to the thread and just let us know you guys have read it and sent it in to the developers? You guys are really leaving us in the dark right now and we're not sure what's going on. One message isn't that difficult. Even if you don't have relevant information at this particular moment we would like to know that, and it would make us feel better to know someone has at least acknowledged the thread.

Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

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I appreciate this as a beginning Camate, but I hope the development team remembers that BST currently is probably the MOST expensive job to play in the game. So I dearly hope this food is made of reasonable to obtain materials. Buffs cost nothing. If I have to spend tons of gil on food for my pet as well as the food I already have to spend because my pet dies in a minute if I don't spam reward AS WELL AS unstackable mulsims AS WELL AS the pets themselves, it is not going to help at all.

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Originally Posted by Camate

the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

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Olive branch accepted for now, but this had better be pretty amazing food (at reasonable costs as Olor said). It's quite sad that I can solo almost twice as effectively on BLU in SoA areas than I can on BST which was the original solo job.

ranger is by far the most expensive job to play not bst

Nice to see a reply; vote up^^ I completely understand; just because you guys are mum, does not mean you have tuned us out. The food sounds great; I have no clue how this will work but I am excited to see it^^

However, I still believe that better jug pet selections and the absence of move removals would solve a fair share of issues pertaining to bsts specifically. Wivres, Gnoles, Uragnites, Gnat, Wamoura, and Morbols (Minus extremely bad breath), would all of their abilities intact will improve our efficiency alone. If certain moves are deemed too powerful, perhaps allow them to be used while under the effect of run wild only, to give that JA some use. I truly hate the removal of native pet moves with a passion. However, I do appreciate the speedy response; cannot wait to see this new food^^

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Originally Posted by bigdave

ranger is by far the most expensive job to play not bst

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I agree with this; As a bst, I actually use jugs and make money off of them. Farming sucks, but the mats are fairly common; minus the mandy I believe; but he sucks imo anyway, lol^^

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Originally Posted by bigdave

ranger is by far the most expensive job to play not bst

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Doesn't ranger have 90+ recycle rate? My pets have 0% recycle rate - and you don't have to heal your bullets to ensure they do damage.... Please also note - RNG gets invited to endgame content. BST costs a lot AND is not welcome in real endgame.

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Originally Posted by WoW

I agree with this; As a bst, I actually use jugs and make money off of them. Farming sucks, but the mats are fairly common; minus the mandy I believe; but he sucks imo anyway, lol^^

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There is not a single activity I have found yet where I make more money as a BST than as a different job that costs $0 to play. Dynamis? Thf (even gimped it makes more money than BST) Voidwatch? BLU. Meebles? BLU (also doesn't make much money), BCNM? BLU or THF.

What exactly can BST do in terms of making money that other jobs can't do without spending a cent?

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Originally Posted by Olor

Doesn't ranger have 90+ recycle rate? My pets have 0% recycle rate - and you don't have to heal your bullets to ensure they do damage.... Please also note - RNG gets invited to endgame content. BST costs a lot AND is not welcome in real endgame.



There is not a single activity I have found yet where I make more money as a BST than as a different job that costs $0 to play. Dynamis? Thf (even gimped it makes more money than BST) Voidwatch? BLU. Meebles? BLU (also doesn't make much money), BCNM? BLU or THF.

What exactly can BST do in terms of making money that other jobs can't do without spending a cent?

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I do not spend a dime on jugs. If i do; I am in a rush/being lazy because I can make them. I practically give away jugs and food for free. I get a ton of Akaso and other jug materials from harvesting; synergy makes 6 of them; I usually sell the left overs which can lead to alot of $$$. Any job can make money; jugs just have never been a major issue obtaining (Can only speak from my experience; I am a cook and synergist); more so their efficacy and the removal of moves were my only gripe. I do not mind spending money; however, our current pet selection and the mysterious removal of moves does not equate to the price; so i do not buy them, lol; I make them. They are not worth it imo, i will say that. my jug can last me through an activity the majority of the time; however, rngs are constantly firing off $$$. Regardless of the difficulty, rngs need those bullets and arrows to be..well..a job. I do not go through pets like a rng does ammo. perhaps there are rngs that make their own ammo, however, they are constantly firing them off which can still be a headache even with traits.

Imo, if they release a a lvl119 Wivre jug with boiling blood, the -50% attack down roar, crippling slam and granite hide, no one would be complaining if it cost 400k a stack; because it is worth it. Pet acc can become an issue. however, a non-gimped pet would solve alot of problems.

Edit: People may still complain; lol, however, the pet's efficacy may trumps the the price in most instances. i mean, ppl complain about reforged armor material prices, but most may buy them because the efficacy may trump the price in some instances.

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The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

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Let me save the game developers some time. That will not be a good enough "fix" to make Pet Jobs desirable for 115+ group content. Mind you that Ramuh Shocksqual and Geomancer Nuking may be among the few exceptions, but they were not of intentional design.

I remember a very long time ago, seeing a Bst buff a charmed bat in Garlaige Citedal with protect. Whether or not it was an intended game-play mechanic at that time is irrelevant at this time. What is relevant is that the ability to buff pets can be implemented, because at one time, it did in-fact exist.

Food for pets is not going to cut it at this stage in FFXI's life. A few years ago it might have been a great addition, but at this point it will not turn a pet into an i119 DD, tank, or nuker. Pets can easily destroy opponents beneath their own level, but when it comes to fighting one's that are above them, it becomes a matter of spamming pets until the opponent is dead. Spamming DDs; spamming tanks; spamming nukers, has never been the best of strategies in FFXI, it has always been a last ditch effort to bring down an opponent that just has the power to wreck anything in its path, or it reaches a point where it just rampages. The reason PCs have a better shot at winning in such circumstances, is do to offensive and defensive buffs AND curing from other PCs.

All the Pet job Job Abilities that buff pets and the trace amounts of -petdamage on gear do not compare to Cure IV, V; they do not compare to Protect V and Shell V, they do not compare to Regen V, they do not compare to Elemental Barspells, they do not compare to Madrigal, Minuet, or Scherzo, they do not compare to Chaos Roll. Those things I just previously mentioned are what keep players alive or going in the most dire of circumstances against deadly foes. What do pets get? And in the case of Corsair, no intelligent or sane group is going to allow Corsair's to use their rolls to buff pets instead of players.

The Dev's response to this entire thread thus far is:

"We were making food for pets, but since you're unsatisfied with Pet Jobs' roles in the FFXI community at this time, we will increase its intended effects. We will then wait and see how that affects things."

That is not an acceptable response. That is a lawyer's dodge to the topic at hand.

This thread's purpose was to implement the ability to cast Player buffs on pets. The Pet job community wants a direct response as to why what is being asked to be implemented would not be done so; and I say "would not", because it can be done, it just comes down to a matter of choice and reasoning by the development team.

I talked with Shin about this campaign of his, and I brought up Stymie as an example to point out the Dev's attitude toward the players. We play "THEIR" game, but it's a game they themselves don't even play. That is fact I have never liked.

I would like to thank the Community Reps for their continued role as go-between for us Players and the Game Developers. You provide the through-way for the language barrier that separates our two groups, and I personally appreciate your continued presence and efforts. Thank you very much.

Olor, outside instanced content my bst is back to using charmed pets, cuts that bite in the wallet way down, especially since I don't care if my pet dies, I'll just grab another. and I don't have great charm gear. just a thought.

and to the devs, how about some charmable pets in the instanced content? I miss doing things like a 6 beast Worm's turn BCNM and the like.

I agree with Olor, Beastmaster is currently really expensive compared to other classes. If you decided to level Cooking and make your own resources, that's awesome. But it shouldn't be a requirement to be cost effective. It's the same argument people use to give for Ranger, to raise Woodworking and Smithing to play the job.

Ranger has an absurd amount of Recycle. Which is on also on gear that is worth using for damage and with Relic Cap, considerably boosts your damage. Plus Ranger has Scavenge to return a good deal of that 10% ammo spent. Even Ninja and Corsair have abilities and gear that reduce their consumption of items. Not only that but have universal tools to even further reduce their inventory and gil loss. Beastmaster is growing to need more and more consumables with zero amounts of recovery or consolidation of inventory.

Charmed pets are also are so incredibly weak now in level 100+ content compared to using a jug pet. It is basically just a free pet and no other pet job is so severely penalized with free pets. Pet food is a great step in the right direction for pet jobs but Beastmaster definitely needs cost reductions. I still see no reason why a Beastmaster pet can't zone with you and reappear you go into a city, if all other pets are capable of it. I don't see why jug pets need a duration timer either. I'm sure it doesn't make crafters happy but it didn't stop them when it came to Ninja, Ranger, and Corsair.

Hey Camate pleease tell DEV team to add another forms to get bard songs example carnagey elegy has horrible drop rate or valor minuet 4, drop rate is too low and not many is interested to do old lv 60 bcnms anymore, if they could add those spells to new bcnms REM chapters, should be cool

Thank you for this response Camate. I just got 1 thing to ask, since i know the dev team can forget this. Please dont forget the pet: ranged accurracy stat when you are making new foods. I can really see them forget this stat because pup is the only job using this stat. thank you and i cant wait for next month!

While i'm glad to see pet acc food, and the fact their acc increase will be higher than the masters, it's going to need to be a MASSIVE boost to make pets relevant to endgame fights, physically. Here is a comparison of how massive it needs to be.

My automaton has this stats with 3 thunder maneuvers, dual stabilizers and optic fiber, dual tension springs, scope, +10 acc and ranged acc from hurch'lan sash, capped melee and ranged skill, and 5/5 melee and ranged merits:

-Oniwaka:

Primary acc: 752
Primary attack: 902
Ranged acc: 792
Ranged attack: 958

Now here are my own stats, without buffs, ninja sub, and just bream sushi. My gear isn't perfect either, but it's fairly good. I have a +2 niznas along with an average ilvl of 117. And no, none of it is espial or wayfarers, just reforged af, otronif +1, manibozho boots, and the like.

-Psion:

Primary acc: 929
Primary att: 862

Unlike my automaton, however, this is with capped gear haste, I can maintain this sort of stats fulltime while meleeing, and unlike oniwaka I don't get a new one torn within seconds because I have defensive buffs and someone to cure me. Even if you buff pets attacks, they are incredibly fragile on anything of importance. believe me, having done hard mode AA and delve runs as pup, i can testify just how fragile they are. Even the whm automaton can barely handle it, and it's only able to survive at all because it can cure itself right after a single AoE takes it down to nearly 100 hp left from full. Thats WITH the delve bosses having almost all their nasty moves being stunned.

And those are my stats without any buffs. with the typical bard and cor set up, my melee acc is more like 1000-1050ish depending on what buffs are being used, and i'm often /war, so my attack often hovers around 1000-1300. Even with that, I generally parse around 85-90% acc on hard mode fights, and just barely cap acc with sushi in delve 1 runs. That means oniwaka needs around 200 more melee acc and 150ish ranged acc just to not be at the acc floor for those runs. Considering sushi caps at around 59 acc or so depending on which type, this new pet sushi has to be almost 4 times as effective for the pet as for the master, and it has to be at least as good as normal sushi for the master to begin with. Now, I like to get my hopes up as much as the next guy, but I've played this game since zilart came out in NA, and I know that SE typically doesn't like to throw pet jobs much more than a small bone once in a while to choke on. I fully expect this new pet sushi to give around 60-80 acc, at best, to the pets, which does absolutely nothing to help us out.

By the way. us pups are still waiting on the dev team to fix attuner and target marker on ilvl mobs. You know, those things that are critical for our automatons to hit monsters higher level than us? Yeah, they're still broken after months of waiting. If tools that were critical to any other job were broken this long, such as warrior's berserk not giving an attack boost, there would be a massive outrage and an emergency maintenance within hours of it coming to light. Why has our job suffered this long without it being fixed when those alone would close the gap somewhat on pups massive accuracy issues? While your at it, why not change tension springs and stabilizers from static increases to % att and acc boosts? And considering our black mage automaton can't nuke for beans anymore, why not give us a new attachment that gives them a large magic damage boost like other mage jobs gets, and another that changes their AI from a teir V nuke every 30-40 seconds to spamming teir I spells constantly like black mages do now? (or teir II for higher magic accuracy if it detects teir I isnt enough) Fix these and pet survival issues and maybe, just maybe, you'd see pet jobs actually invited to events instead of having to force our friends to take us along with them, or change to another job. As it is, I have to gear entirely for myself as the puppetmaster and pretend my automaton is nothing more than a way to dump my hate, and occasional bonus cures. Some puppetmaster I am.

TD:LR

-new pet acc food has to be massive increases for the pet. like, at least 200 accuracy massive so that pets won't have floored acc on any fights that matter. Hard mode BCNMs, delve bosses, rakaznor skirmish, you name it.

-automatons target marker and attuner are still broken after months of waiting, despite them being critical attachments to a puppetmasters arsenal of tools on tougher fights. fix them, already. im serious. fix them now. not next update, not two updates from now. now. I don't care if you have to take the servers down for emergency maintenence, because it's an emergency, by the goddess.

-automatons nuking is sadly outdated, when before it was well balanced against black mage. the automatons nukes were far more powerful than a black mage, but they couldn't burst nuke like a black mage could. in the end, their damage was equal over time. Nowadays a summoner practically can toss a stone II for higher damage than my automatons ice makered, full powered, thunder V on mobs, and at far less time and mp. Automatons need a teir II tranquilizer, a new attachment that boosts their magic damage like the ilvl staves mages get to use now, and a new attachment that changes their behavior into spamming low teir nukes nonstop.

-pets in general are squishy. Why not take a page from ffxiv and make it so that pets don't take much damage from AoEs they aren't a direct target of? Considering pets are rarely the main target on harder fights, this would be a simple solution to pet survival issues, without promoting petburns to the exclusion of all other jobs.

-whatever fixes you have in mind, make them ridiculously overpowered, because your idea of overpowered is what the player base considered overpowered 6 years ago. triple the effects of whatever you have in mind and you just might get pet jobs in the right ballpark of being fixed. I know no one likes being nerfed, but the pet situation is so severe now after conservative fixes that haven't kept up with updates to other jobs, that no one will complain if you suddenly make pet jobs godlike then nerf it back to something more balanced. They will thank you far more than pet sushi with pet: acc +50.

(seriously, make that pet sushi give at least 200 acc and ranged acc to the pet.)

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

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We are all truly grateful that the community reps and development team have taken out the time to respond to our pet job thread, but I think we're still getting no where even after your response. The development team should know very well that pet food alone isn't going to amend any of the issues pets and pet jobs face currently. Sadly this is just yet another little toy for us to play with so we're satisfied for a little while longer, then once we realize that it has done nothing to satisfy the problem, we'll be at it again asking for you guys to fix us.

The implementation of pet food is definitely a long awaited addition to pet jobs and is very welcomed, but it will at most only somewhat solve accuracy issues. What happens as content level progresses? The stats that food effects give are static and do not increase with character levels, so by the time we're dealing with higher level enemies in the future, when you guys decide to release new content, we'll just fall behind accuracy wise again then need to ask for another update to fix our accuracy. I'm sorry, but every solution you guys keep coming up with to fix pet jobs are all temporary solutions, and every year or two we keep running into the issue that pet jobs are out of date, and need some fine-tuning again. What we want is a solution that will stand the test of time. In two years we don't want to have to address the same issue again because once again pets can't hit monsters.

As players, it shouldn't be our job to remind you guys every time that pet jobs are out of date; pets being out of date shouldn't even happen. When you guys fix a problem, it should be a one time fix that is permanent, and not be a temporary fix that will again need to be addressed in the future as new content comes out. We pay to play Final Fantasy, and not to spend time on the forums trying to figure out solutions for you and remind you that there's a problem. I think it's safe to assume that everyone who has invested time in this thread have done so because we're tired of coming back year after year to address the same issues.

Please, all we are asking for is that you come up with a real solution. Accuracy, Attack, and other bonuses that food can add to pets are but a fraction of the problems that prevent pets and pet jobs from being compatible in end game and group content. I do realize that you said that adding food is but one of the many plans you guys have in store for pets, but we seriously shouldn't have to wait one to two years for you guys to finally get around to fixing the problem. The development team knows very well what the problems of pet jobs are: Accuracy, Attack, Survival, etc. and are very well aware of how to fix them, so please don't take the easy route by fixing one minor problem and expecting that to solve everything like pet food. It will take much more than that to solve the pet job issue once and for all.

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Originally Posted by Rwolf

I agree with Olor, Beastmaster is currently really expensive compared to other classes. If you decided to level Cooking and make your own resources, that's awesome. But it shouldn't be a requirement to be cost effective. It's the same argument people use to give for Ranger, to raise Woodworking and Smithing to play the job.

Ranger has an absurd amount of Recycle. Which is on also on gear that is worth using for damage and with Relic Cap, considerably boosts your damage. Plus Ranger has Scavenge to return a good deal of that 10% ammo spent. Even Ninja and Corsair have abilities and gear that reduce their consumption of items. Not only that but have universal tools to even further reduce their inventory and gil loss. Beastmaster is growing to need more and more consumables with zero amounts of recovery or consolidation of inventory.

Charmed pets are also are so incredibly weak now in level 100+ content compared to using a jug pet. It is basically just a free pet and no other pet job is so severely penalized with free pets. Pet food is a great step in the right direction for pet jobs but Beastmaster definitely needs cost reductions. I still see no reason why a Beastmaster pet can't zone with you and reappear you go into a city, if all other pets are capable of it. I don't see why jug pets need a duration timer either. I'm sure it doesn't make crafters happy but it didn't stop them when it came to Ninja, Ranger, and Corsair.

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I see what you are saying; but if you do not lvl crafts, that is on you tho, no harm no foul; that is just the way it is. Even if I did not make my own; personally, jugs are not that expensive considering the various non-crafting money making methods in this game. Harvesting is pretty inexpensive; I get asked to make some jugs for ppl when they bring the mats; so you do not have to lvl a craft; but it is nice to have.

I do agree that it should not be necessary; however, how long have players been complaining about bst? Since its' release if I recall correctly. Bst has flawed mechanics to begin with. I honestly feel that if SE could go back in time and delete bst and pup from the game; they would do so. Charm has bad game-play mechanics, because wild animals are not always available and some are they are rather weak at 99. Jugs are a better concept, however, it leads to complaining about prices. Jugs should be obtained from a quest and be usable at will, but still have the same call beast timer restrictions. For instance; a quest that grants you a scorpion jug (yes, I am not letting this go, lol) which does not consume. Pet food should still be crafted because they are not essential; the pet is.

Although it's a start, I am skeptical about the food idea. The number of players that actually get to play group content on a pet job probably wont increase unless it makes a MASSIVE difference. We still need survivability addressed or we'll be burning gil on spamming this food every time the pet dies.
Also I wish I could give Shinron's and Psion's posts a billion likes because they pretty much sum up everything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

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Though I agree with others that this is a decent starting point, it would really be a lot better if you just let normal buffs and effects affect pets like every other MMO in existence. I really don't know why the devs are so averse to this. Pets are horrible at keeping enmity and can't tank against anything other than their master (PUP, SMN, BST), so its not like buffing and curing them means they're suddenly awesome tanks, nor does it mean that they're suddenly the best DPS ever because they can be buffed.

Monstrosity > Beast-Master.

But seriously, you guys/gals may be right as it pertains to these buffs overpowering the jugs. I do not believe jugs should be stronger than a lvl 119dd; but I seriously doubt these buffs would do that unless they released a true dd jug (I mean our current jugs are not exactly world beaters in abyssea on weaker mobs). I am no pup, drg, or smn, so i cannot speak on those three jobs. However, as it pertains to bst, they need a true dd jug or a unique ability exclusive to that jug. XI appears to be all about the ws atm; Sweeping gouge and molted plumage are just not cutting it; unless they release magic attack bonus food +50% or something (For plumage). Plumage scales beautifully with magic attack. If they released pet food or gear (To macro in) with a good chunk of this; damage could get pretty high, even on bosses. Seen it go over 7k in abyssea with magic attack atmas. I wish bst had more magic attack pet gear to macro in for Plumage as it appears to be the best ws on harder mobs; but that will not address the acc issues unless they include acc+ all food or allow multiple effects.

Edit: Not sure all this food/buff stuff is needed; just release true dd/tank jugs. Aka Scorpion/Wivre. I still shudder at the thought of pets being as strong as other dd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WoW

I see what you are saying; but if you do not lvl crafts, that is on you tho, no harm no foul; that is just the way it is. Even if I did not make my own; personally, jugs are not that expensive considering the various non-crafting money making methods in this game. Harvesting is pretty inexpensive; I get asked to make some jugs for ppl when they bring the mats; so you do not have to lvl a craft; but it is nice to have.

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Your logic is flawed and makes no sense. Just because you personally decided to max Cooking as your craft, does not make it a necessity. It doesn't matter how lucrative gil making on jugs is. It's no different than any other job that uses a high amount of expendables. In your logic, they might as well remove Recycle, Ninja Tool Expertise, Universal Tools, and Cardless Ability Use because you should just be able to craft your jobs needs or fund it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WoW

I do agree that it should not be necessary; however, how long have players been complaining about bst? Since its' release if I recall correctly. Bst has flawed mechanics to begin with. I honestly feel that if SE could go back in time and delete bst and pup from the game; they would do so. Charm has bad game-play mechanics, because wild animals are not always available and some are they are rather weak at 99. Jugs are a better concept, however, it leads to complaining about prices. Jugs should be obtained from a quest and be usable at will, but still have the same call beast timer restrictions. For instance; a quest that grants you a scorpion jug (yes, I am not letting this go, lol) which does not consume. Pet food should still be crafted because they are not essential; the pet is.

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I respect your belief because of the amount of time players have voiced concerns about Beastmaster and it's flawed mechanics, means they won't change anything or would delete the job if they could. However, there are others who would like to more constructively come up solutions, I don't see the point in deterring them. Olor was right that Beastmaster is currently one of the most expensive jobs to play through it's consumables. Saying that you harvest your own materials and make your items yourself does not change that fact. It simply means you are dedicated to your job and craft. Any job is less expensive if you farmed and crafted your own materials. The fact still stands that Beastmaster is currently the most expensive class to play in consumable items. Fact is also that every other job that has been plagued with rapid consumption of items has been alleviated in one way or another.

You seem to agree that it shouldn't be a necessary loss, and with that part I do agree with you.

Edited to add:
I'm not trying to sound condescending in my post, I just don't agree with the logic to craft as a solution. I think we all want more for Beastmaster in the end.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rwolf

Your logic is flawed and makes no sense. Just because you personally decided to max Cooking as your craft, does not make it a necessity. It doesn't matter how lucrative gil making on jugs is. It's no different than any other job that uses a high amount of expendables. In your logic, they might as well remove Recycle, Ninja Tool Expertise, Universal Tools, and Cardless Ability Use because you should just be able to craft your jobs needs or fund it.



I respect your belief because of the amount of time players have voiced concerns about Beastmaster and it's flawed mechanics, means they won't change anything or would delete the job if they could. However, there are others who would like to more constructively come up solutions, I don't see the point in deterring them. Olor was right that Beastmaster is currently one of the most expensive jobs to play through it's consumables. Saying that you harvest your own materials and make your items yourself does not change that fact. It simply means you are dedicated to your job and craft. Any job is less expensive if you farmed and crafted your own materials. The fact still stands that Beastmaster is currently the most expensive class to play in consumable items. Fact is also that every other job that has been plagued with rapid consumption of items has been alleviated in one way or another.

You seem to agree that it shouldn't be a necessary loss, and with that part I do agree with you.

Edited to add:
I'm not trying to sound condescending in my post, I just don't agree with the logic to craft as a solution. I think we all want more for Beastmaster in the end.

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Actually, it does make sense; i lvled cooking and thus have easy access to jugs. I do not make the rules; i just know how to play by them. There is no flaw in that; I lvl cooking and have no issue obtaining jugs, it is not really flawed imo. For instance, if someone takes the time to lvl a craft that can assist them; I do not see how that is flawed. These are just my personal experiences, lol. I also stated that jugs should not be consumable so ppl like yourself can obtain them. I did not program the game, lol. I just play it.

To your second point; your post appears to imply that not everyone lvls a craft or shares my dedication to bst; thus you cannot relate, because the job is expensive to you. Well....bst is not expensive or a hassle to me thus I cannot relate. I do not feel it needs alleviation, but i welcome it, because not everyone lvls cooking. It goes both ways, I do not feel your thinking is flawed, just because you did not lvl cooking; but that is just how it is atm, cooking helps. this is not 14 where crafts have no place in the game.

My main gripe is with the pet selection; they suck. I had a change of heart recently, if our jug selection continue to suck; it does not matter what they add to bst unless it overpowers them to extreme heights for the sake of hard content (Which may be a problem if they are sam or war like).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mitruya

we'll be burning gil on spamming this food every time the pet dies.

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Oh, and don't forget the 120k stacks of antacid because I'm sure you'll have to remove the food effect from yourself before you can reapply it.

COR rolls can give pets buffs already, that's a possibility, we know it is, there's no reason at all that BRD & COR buffs as a whole can't simply apply to pets. It wouldn't overpower them, even if it did, simply lower the amount, players get 100 Atk? Well pets only get 75, penalty incurred and tada balance achieved.

To say...

Quote:

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Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

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Only is true when you are talking about directly receiving such effects, but when it comes to getting them via the player it's entirely possible because that's what COR rolls already do, we know that. It's a poor excuse.

Do GEO buffs affect pets? Logic makes me think any entity inside a GEO bubble would get the buff/debuff but this is SE... If not, it might do both GEO and pet jobs some good to have GEO buffs affect pets.

How about a "Domesticate" ability for BST, which would renew Charm without letting it wear off, usable every say, 5 minutes. Using it would then let you use "Adopt", so we could keep it as a stabled pet and call it up every, say, 15 minutes, kind of like PUP and DRG. You could even give it it's own inventory and let us equip "collars" or finally put a use to those monstrosity instincts that you seem so keen on everyone playing anyway. This and maybe a support-type automaton frame would go a long way. It would remove the cost from BST pets while still giving us our own unique playstyle and therefore positive monster correlation benefits, and let us puzzle-piece the traits we want our pets to have.

Just a thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mitruya

We still need survivability addressed or we'll be burning gil on spamming this food every time the pet dies.

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No we won't - because we can't even eat another food (since it affects us) until it wears off. Another massive problem with this "idea"

Well, unless I'm going to ALSO have to carry a stack of antacid on top of everything frigging else I have to carry as a BST