PS2 limitation new Zone solution.

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03-23-2011, 12:44 AM
rog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephilipitou

Not adding places at all because PS2 players wouldn't be able to go there, is just wrong. Way more wrong. More people are effected, there's less of a reason for it, and everyone suffers rather than just some.

Except there is no possible way they could add an area that wasn't compatible with the ps2. A new zone requires them to increment a variable which goes up to 65335. That's it. Nothing else.
03-23-2011, 12:59 AM
Ilax

Quote:

Originally Posted by rog

Except there is no possible way they could add an area that wasn't compatible with the ps2. A new zone requires them to increment a variable which goes up to 65335. That's it. Nothing else.

Except if that new zone would support more 'translation word', would support more texture/geometry that go higher then the 32meg max that PS2 can offer, i doubt i need to tell you all the limitation that is related to a 32meg memory, because i know that won't change your opinion, as it been said if you would understand you won't keep going to defend PS2.
03-23-2011, 01:33 AM
rog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilax

Except if that new zone would support more 'translation word', would support more texture/geometry that go higher then the 32meg max that PS2 can offer, i doubt i need to tell you all the limitation that is related to a 32meg memory, because i know that won't change your opinion, as it been said if you would understand you won't keep going to defend PS2.

You want auto translates that only work in a certain zone? wat

They can easily just not have the ps2 load as many textures at once if needed. Not sure why that would be a problem.
03-23-2011, 02:14 AM
Ilax

Quote:

Originally Posted by rog

You want auto translates that only work in a certain zone? wat

They can easily just not have the ps2 load as many textures at once if needed. Not sure why that would be a problem.

True on that, i mean they could make everyone look the same, 1 armor/texture onry, everyone look the same on PS2, but again that is just buying some time till they reach another limit, that not really fixing the issue, and i doubt PS2 player would appreciate such of change too, but i guess could be a temp solution until PS2/PS3 reach 1%...
03-23-2011, 02:24 AM
Soulrunner

Here's a solution, a final solution.

SE: "We like to thank all our loyal players for their continued support of FFXI, We would like to announce that we are working on the next full Expansion to FFXI for the "Xbox 360, PC, and PS3" systems. We regrettably must announce that the next expansion will not support the PS2 system, although you may continue to play FFXI up to the most recent prior expansion, this system will be incompatible with further expansions. Thank you"

That's all they have to do, make a full expansion and exclude ps2 from it, but offer the game with next expansion for ps3 as an alternative. Hell i'd buy it.
03-23-2011, 02:41 AM
Ilax

Exactly what i was saying with new zone for none-PS2 user, and i find this fair enough since 92% player base are not on PS2/PS3. I still think is less brutal then totally tell them that SE don't support them at all.

Of course that will cost SE $$$ for development, but they don't have to redo a complete new game with 100 new zone, just 2~3 new zone as beta-release would be already a net progress. And if is not perfect day 1 (as it was the case of 14) who care? We still have our old zone without bug available to play. In the end i am sure that would increase player base of FFXI which is sadly maybe not anymore they prio with 14 :(
03-23-2011, 03:22 AM
Randwolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilax

Exactly what i was saying with new zone for none-PS2 user, and i find this fair enough since 92% player base are not on PS2/PS3. I still think is less brutal then totally tell them that SE don't support them at all.

Of course that will cost SE $$$ for development, but they don't have to redo a complete new game with 100 new zone, just 2~3 new zone as beta-release would be already a net progress. And if is not perfect day 1 (as it was the case of 14) who care? We still have our old zone without bug available to play. In the end i am sure that would increase player base of FFXI which is sadly maybe not anymore they prio with 14 :(

Kind of ridiculous to create new zones for non-PS2 when the basics are still gimped. You suddenly have 90 spaces in your sack when you enter the new zone? When you exit, where do those extra 10 items go? And, that's just one issue.
03-23-2011, 03:37 AM
Ilax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randwolf

Kind of ridiculous to create new zones for non-PS2 when the basics are still gimped. You suddenly have 90 spaces in your sack when you enter the new zone? When you exit, where do those extra 10 items go? And, that's just one issue.

Who say they have to start with this? Just an environment with better graphic, new battle system, (who know, you can jump in the new zone!, There new crazy emote) You can have LS with more then 64 player, The zone is impossible HUGE with zillion monster without facing a BLACK OUT screen saying: Loading. New PVP system that allow you to change gear. Who the hell know what they can put in these zone that would obviously not affect when you zone back... As i say you can get new gear with same stats, they just look almost same when you zone in old content (just the color is different) but in new zone they look crazy.

Also note that buy time for SE/DEV, they can work on a new world with free testing (kinda) i mean if people don't like they still have access to old content and will still pay they fee/month, and eventually PS2 will die and SE will have more option like increase SAC space and so on.
03-23-2011, 03:44 AM
Randwolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilax

Who say they have to start with this? Just an environment with better graphic, new battle system, (who know, you can jump in the new zone!, There new crazy emote) You can have LS with more then 64 player, The zone is impossible HUGE with zillion monster without facing a BLACK OUT screen saying: Loading. New PVP system that allow you to change gear. Who the hell know what they can put in these zone that would obviously not affect when you zone back... As i say you can get new gear with same stats, they just look almost same when you zone in old content (just the color is different) but in new zone they look crazy.

Also note that buy time for SE/DEV, they can work on a new world with free testing (kinda) i mean if people don't like they still have access to old content and will still pay they fee/month, and eventually PS2 will die and SE will have more option like increase SAC space and so on.

I just see this as adding an extra layer of complexity to the programming because now everything that works in the new zone would have to be figured into how it behaves outside the zone. Just cut PS2 if you are going to cut it so you don't create a ton more issues every time something new is added. Or, keep supporting PS2 and figure it into all future content.
03-23-2011, 03:58 AM
Ilax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randwolf

I just see this as adding an extra layer of complexity to the programming because now everything that works in the new zone would have to be figured into how it behaves outside the zone. Just cut PS2 if you are going to cut it so you don't create a ton more issues every time something new is added. Or, keep supporting PS2 and figure it into all future content.

That add nothing complex to coding >< I bet you anything DEV spend 90% of they time to figure how they going to fit next expansion on PS2. Make new engine take time of course, but no matter what they have to do it eventually, better start now then later... Or wait, do you think FFXI will die with PS2?, in that case FFXI is already dead and there really no point to any new player to start playing it, then only FF14 is left, but that also a bad news.
03-23-2011, 04:42 AM
Randwolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilax

That add nothing complex to coding >< I bet you anything DEV spend 90% of they time to figure how they going to fit next expansion on PS2.

I doubt it. You normally would start with your most restrictive parameters and expand to the other operating systems, which allow you to do more. There was a reason WoW stopped Windows 98 support 'cold turkey' instead of zone by zone, as you suggest.
03-23-2011, 05:00 AM
annewandering

If there is no problem with ps2s now then why do the ps2 players have so much trouble lately with updates? SE has bent over backwards to keep FFXI on as many platforms as possible but one of these days people are just going to have to realize that even Atari bit the dust. Just because some people still have Ataris is no reason for game makers to decide to port modern games to them any more than they should be held to a product as old as ps2. Even Play Station has moved on.
What we need is a way to phase them out gradually so the ps2 users can have time to replace their old consoles. Those consoles really are going to die eventually and some people just need a bit of incentive to change type of machine.
03-23-2011, 07:03 AM
NightDagger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephilipitou

A mac is a PC. It is a personal Computer. You can install bootcamp, and load up windows of your choice, and voila...

2k is the upper limit I'd pay. Are you a photo, video, or music creator?

I love bootcamp but can't rely on my wife making sure she turns the fan speed up (she alread friend the HDD & video card on me once)

And yes I take wedding photo's & family photo's with my mother in-law & make dvd's for them.
03-23-2011, 07:10 AM
NightDagger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilax

Exactly what i was saying with new zone for none-PS2 user, and i find this fair enough since 92% player base are not on PS2/PS3. I still think is less brutal then totally tell them that SE don't support them at all.

Of course that will cost SE $$$ for development, but they don't have to redo a complete new game with 100 new zone, just 2~3 new zone as beta-release would be already a net progress. And if is not perfect day 1 (as it was the case of 14) who care? We still have our old zone without bug available to play. In the end i am sure that would increase player base of FFXI which is sadly maybe not anymore they prio with 14 :(

Not trying to flam or troll, just That JP Button site has to be off. It stats that 30% of JP users are playing on PS2. but it is only 6%? must be old data or they are saying hardly any JP's play lol

Just something I read & have a hard time believing.

Oh and SE stated last year that FFXI will be fully supported until 2013 & they have already got new full expansion in the development. After 2013 they do not what will happen, it will depend solely on the player base at that time.

So this means that they have zero intention of eliminating the PS2 & are still goingto continue to work around there limitations. (I will search for the press release this is stated in, I know it was one from when FFXIV was getting ready for Alpha Testing)
03-23-2011, 07:23 AM
Zyeriis

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightDagger

Not trying to flam or troll, just That JP Button site has to be off. It stats that 30% of JP users are playing on PS2. but it is only 6%? must be old data or they are saying hardly any JP's play lol

Just something I read & have a hard time believing.

Oh and SE stated last year that FFXI will be fully supported until 2013 & they have already got new full expansion in the development. After 2013 they do not what will happen, it will depend solely on the player base at that time.

So this means that they have zero intention of eliminating the PS2 & are still goingto continue to work around there limitations. (I will search for the press release this is stated in, I know it was one from when FFXIV was getting ready for Alpha Testing)

That 30% statistic is from 2 years ago, from a survey. I wouldn't take that seriously at all.
That "expansion pack" is Abbysea I'm about 95% sure on that, considering that was over a year ago.
03-23-2011, 07:24 AM
NightDagger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyeriis

That 30% statistic is from 2 years ago, from a survey. I wouldn't take that seriously at all.
That "expansion pack" is Abbysea I'm about 95% sure on that, considering that was over a year ago.

Tough to say cause the first Abyssea was already out with the second following soon. But I also can not confirm whether it is or is not.
03-23-2011, 07:26 AM
Nataskiller

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilax

I was thinking about it, SE could make totally new zone for none-PS2 player, those new zone would have new graphic/monster/texture etc.

Let say the same gear would drop from these zone, let say that could be NEW abyssea alternative for everyone that is not playing on PS2 console. I think that would open a new world for DEV, and also could interest tons of new player, without leaving PS2 support, also note how it would decrease zone occupation.

Some of you might remember many of my comment saying how this game need a better challenge, this would open the door for it :) New monster could be harder for the same gear stats but they have different color/texture, so in the end it could interest back the hardcore player.

for sure all this is possible, the real question is if SE have the $$$ for a project like that, but what you guys think about the idea?

we all wish it was that easy...but sadly that would mess with the whole community its like runescape...you have to buy membership to access certain area's armor and mobs and crafting skills and magic...just completely not fair for people who still own and play off a PS2...if anything SE should implement a option for PC and XBOX360 users to turn up graphics?
03-24-2011, 07:10 AM
Nephilipitou

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nataskiller

we all wish it was that easy...but sadly that would mess with the whole community its like runescape...you have to buy membership to access certain area's armor and mobs and crafting skills and magic...just completely not fair for people who still own and play off a PS2...if anything SE should implement a option for PC and XBOX360 users to turn up graphics?

Graphics alone isn't enough. The devs need the freedom to make the game how they want to. Not to just make the game within the defined parameters. Imagine cutting down or even eliminating load times. Imagine more convenient item storages NPCs, or even ways to have item storage without needing NPCs. Imagine a redesigned interface that doesn't have to be compatible with 640x480 or lower displays (PS2 resolution) imagine being able to customize the interface, imagine just more freedom for them to make the game better. Imagine Auto-translate for every Abyssea NM Atma, etcetera as well as every NM involved in a Magian Trial or the items for those as well. Imagine not just the ability to have text chat with linkshells, parties, or friends, but being able to do voice chat as well, but without having to add a ton of people to a Ventrillo Client, or Skype etcetera. Maybe even a better PVP system, and especially faster version updates since they wouldn't have to test everything on PS2 every time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightDagger

I love bootcamp but can't rely on my wife making sure she turns the fan speed up (she alread friend the HDD & video card on me once)

And yes I take wedding photo's & family photo's with my mother in-law & make dvd's for them.

I wouldn't really call Family Photo DVDs something that requires a 5k mac. I was talking more of like higher end video editing and music editing. Do you just use mac because you like the O.S.? Do you use it because you hate Windows? Do you actually need Mac O.S.? Or is there some other reason. Right now I'm just curious.

If you have an iPhone, regularly use iTunes and have or are thinking of getting an iPad you can just say "I'm an Apple kinda guy" and i'll understand. I personally was about to switch to apple, but then, they pissed me off with their control freakiness and so I just stuck with windows. After Windows 7 came out I was really happy with that decision. Apple products just aren't for me.
03-24-2011, 11:04 AM
NightDagger

No it is more professional photography. My mother in-law takes the pictures & I do ALL the editing on my Mac. Plus make the DVDs.

But yes OSx is amazing. i am apple all the way. You really do not know what you a missing until you own one. Took me about a month to get everything figured out on this & man let me tell you the things it can do is great. Not to mention that when editing photo's the graphics are unbeatable, the programs are greatly improved. Not to mention that if I want to fix a little blurb on someones forehead, i am able to zoom in to an extreme close up with little pixel lose. This allows me to get right in there when trying to get the best skin/color match to edit with.

I wish you lived close by I would let you actually see what a Mac can do. But yes I do want an IPad also lol. Wish apple would come out with a gaming console (they are saying in 2013 it will release, japan got one in 1995 I think but it flopped). Bet it would be very pricey but just amazing.

But in all seriousness a 5k mac is not that unheard of. A 27 inch IMac, with 16 GB Ram, 2.93 Ghz Quad Core, 2 TB Hdd with built in 256 GB Time Machine drive, add the mighty mouse & key pad, office 211, file manager & photoshop you are looking at 5-6k before tax. (time machine is awesome as it does real time backup if you would like it to)
03-24-2011, 11:12 AM
KorPoni

It's completely natural that systems become out of date as game developers stop making games for that console, and we keep moving up to newer, better consoles. I really believe they should make "Final Fantasy XI-2" and allow players to choose to move their characters to the new game, where it's basically the same old game with expanded content, but it not support older systems like PS2, or just stay in FFXI with it's content at the limit it's allowed with PS2. If PS2 has alot more room for content as I'm seeing alot of people claiming, this obviously won't need to be done for a good while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordanthos

i dont even think the game has hit half of the PS2 HD capacity yet. Unless there is some sort of LIMIT to the space that its allowed to use on it, they have plenty plenty plenty of room on it, i seriously think it hasnt reached 20 gigs, and its capacity is 40.

I mean at some point your all going to be crying that the XBOX 360 is limiting the game, this is why you dont bring MMO's to consoles really, a PC is forever expanding, unlimited growth, systems have breaking points. Why we have an MMO that is cross console to PC networking is beyond me. But crap happens, oh well.

XBox 360 is the only console atm that doesn't have a real memory limit. Microsoft can just keep making newer, bigger hard drives. If PS2 harddrives weren't so out of date, Sony would really be able to do that too.

Edit: Alot of players of PS2 version are starting to play their PS2 versions on PS3, so I think SE should simply make a PS3 version. The reality is this: alot of players either hate XBox360 or can't afford a computer. But with a PS3 version, they could play a much larger content base, better graphics, and don't hafta resort to 360 for these things.
03-24-2011, 11:24 AM
NightDagger

I refused to buy a 360 for years. Was Sony all the way, but broke down & got one now and have to say that I love it. I still have certain series of games that I will ONLY play on PS3 cause the graphics, sound through home theater and everything is better (to me anyways).

I also wish a PS3 version would come out. I would switch from 360 to that hands down (then my wife could play CoD & kill zombies all day as well lol)
03-24-2011, 03:52 PM
rog

Quote:

Originally Posted by KorPoni

XBox 360 is the only console atm that doesn't have a real memory limit. Microsoft can just keep making newer, bigger hard drives. If PS2 harddrives weren't so out of date, Sony would really be able to do that too.

Ignoring the fact that you confused HDD space with memory, ALL systems use the same hard drives computers use, and can use HDDs up to 2 TB each.
03-24-2011, 03:54 PM
Rambus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordanthos

This just cant happen, and everyones idea of just, hey just make it not available to PS2 users is an impossible and unfair limitation. Its horrible business practice. For people who just cant afford to get a computer, that leaves them limited to the amount of fun, content, and almost not played with anymore becuase if this were to happen, everyone would go to the new areas and leave the PS2 players in the dust. Eventually what is going to HAVE to happen, whether they like it or not, is they will have to cut off the support to the PS2 and it most likely WILL happen, but of course, its going to be a while before they make a decision like that. It wont happen until they are absolutely positively sure that they can still make a buck on the services, and in order to do that, the content has to stay rewarding for players to keep playing, and if its not too large to fit into the PS2, the PS2 will live on until it is deemed impossible for the game to expand when they are planning to expand.

ok let me ask you what is best:
1. shutting the game down
2. Getting rid of Ps2 support so it is ps3 only
3. giving new content that ps2 can't acess
4. deleating 75 content instances.

to me the bad business practice is bowing down to 10% of your total revenue or w/e.
do sony even make ps2 or sell replacement hard drives? really no reason to support the ps2 anymore, when your p2 brakes its prob best to buy a ps3 to replace it.
03-24-2011, 03:59 PM
Yarly

http://parchmentpaper.blogspot.com/2...dont.html#more

just a post i found, it's not mine.
03-24-2011, 04:10 PM
Ranadir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilax

I agree, is in some sense a bit crude for PS2 not be able to join new zone, but could be worse... Eventually they wont have choice to swap, is same as i said before, PS2 can't play 14 and please don't get to conclusion is reason why 14 is not a great success ><

Hmmm, i kinda lost track of Everyquest.... IS EQ1 still more popular then EQ2? If yes, then i guess SE should learn about this, i know EQ2 had very hard time at start...

Anyway, EQ1 never died and will probably never since company still put new content in it none stop, for XI it seem they won't have that luck till they make the right choice, and to say people will start play 14 just to get ride of limitation, is like dreaming. I would rather play something totally new instead, which involve totally new monster, totally new concept...

in my head is clear, i end to spend too many year into XI to restart all over again in 14. Is not like i only loose progress i did, but also loosing my friend-environment.

Nah EQ2 has/had a larger player base, at least until they easymoded the content in the last 2 expansions.
03-24-2011, 04:48 PM
Detoxy

as ive stated b4 in other threads the ps2 is a washed up old hunk of junk it needs to be used as a door stop its way more usefull that way people stop trying to breath life into this old machine let it die as it should have long ago

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