They completely remove the Regain effect AND cut the duration to 90 seconds. That is tremendous overkill. The Haste reduction is fine but they seriously need to rethink that.
Perfect defense / embrava unbalance
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10-23-2012, 11:23 PMSasaraixx
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10-23-2012, 11:44 PMDemon6324236
Actually... just keep the duration the same and they made the effects perfect. They wouldn't be overpowered, its just a glorified Haste II, perhaps nerf the Regen a bit too, the Refresh aspect is nice because it means its a good "super buff" for both mages & melees, though its still much more on the melee side than the mage side seeing as Fast Cast would be needed to really balance it for both. As for PD... Why do I see events becoming "500 Summoning Skill only" or some shit like that? -_-
Either way, the nerfs on content don't seem to be enough imo, NNI seems... decent... I expect few people to bother even trying for 100 after the nerf, in favor of attempting to do BRD Marchx2 SCH/RDM(Phalanx&Regen5) & 4DDs or something similar, really they should have increased the jump range to 2~12 or something similar as well seeing as Embrava sped up runs alot, and they seem to be ignoring that. Legion mobs seem to be stayin just as overpowered on damage, same with ADL, and everything else, they just die slightly faster. -
10-23-2012, 11:57 PMSasaraixxQuote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
Which is why this proposed nerf is overkill. I think the Refresh effect is fairly useless and should be replaced with something else but the priority is fixing the duration.
I also think it's going to be harder to hit floor 80 w/o Embrava than it was to hit floor 100 with it. And now you have to do it 5 times! They need to increase the possible jump range and make the minimum jump 3. They should also remove order lamps from the possible objectives. -
10-24-2012, 12:08 AMDamanethe exchanges in Legion, nyzul isle and odin v2 do NOTHING for the loss of embrava and PD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrth
10% less HP on mobs doesnt change the fact that they can AoE you for 2k dmg... changes to those are fucking meaningless. -
10-24-2012, 12:10 AMDemon6324236
Eh, like I said I'm ok with refresh because it actually buffs mages, not high on the priority list I know, but still helpful to some. Mages have lost their ability to really DD because of a few reasons, 1 of which being MP running out, the other being overall DPS, Embrava giving Refresh helps with 1 of these 2 things(MP isn't a problem in some events like Abyssea or VW, but then again BLMs are there to proc, not to DD) so I see it as ok. While admittedly it will be harder to make the climb, you also have to take into account that the harder mobs on those higher floors wont cause you problems now, the boss is a whole 20% earlier, and the boss is easier I would assume, meaning overall it might be easier. Its just a matter of groups having to experiment with it. The only thing is that really NNI seems to be ignored by the devs to an extent, they say they want it to take alot of luck & skill still... my question is, if it already took alot of luck & skill with Embrava, just what do they expect people to do to beat floor 100 without Embrava.
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10-24-2012, 12:11 AMsaevel
Well legion didn't get changed much, and ADL will be barely adjusted if your SMN's have decent skill. The real killer is NNI which just because nigh impossible to get to 100. Order lamps and no embrava most of the run, your taking a 99 Dura BRD and hoping for the best.
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10-24-2012, 12:12 AMKarbuncle
I saw this coming. No matter who's in charge, They all seem equally incompitent when it comes to balancing a nerf.
Its always tremendous overkill. RDM Enmity Spells, RNG's in general... If its getting a nerf, its going to be nerfed into uselessness or near such. Perfect Defense will remain semi-useful if your Summoning Magic is capped with the right gear, But for the majority of LS Summoners out there, Your PD is now useless... Embrava is now meaningless. You'd honestly be better off replacing your SCH with a Emp BRD for NNI now, Maybe keep one around for Regen.
I mean, 90 Second duration? Nerfing the Haste and Regain would have sufficed, But destroying the Duration simply renders the entire ability rather meaningless for the events it was used in.
On the bright side, BRD and/or COR will probably be more welcome in NNI Groups, But on the Down side, Floor 100 will be a pipe dream. -
10-24-2012, 12:17 AMMarkovChain
The new PD duration makes it impossible to kill 2 clones or more even with an ally unless you spend part of the fight stunning it (like the first part). In reality there is decent chance that it won't do breakga at start so you can pop it a bit later, however the split animation plus the rengage time is easy 15 seconds wasted, party or ally, so I think you see twice less marrows in bazars than what you have now, mostly because noone can afford a 18 man kill. Personally, I will just use the same setup with a few +skill farming, and our winrate will be 50% instead of 87%, no big deal since the price will also double.
The new optimal setup for nyzul is likely
DDx4
SMN for 5 minutes haste ga & movement speed
DDB99 BRD singing march march paeon paeon -
10-24-2012, 12:21 AMrevear
I doubt the price will double more people will prob join a ls for ADL because with burning nerfed people will be looking for a new ls to get them. but marrows its tough to determine a price for them right now give it a month after the update to level out we shall see,
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10-24-2012, 12:34 AMFupafighterHonestly since they're changing it from regain to refresh, could see blu taking over nyzle lol. 4 Blu, 1 sch, 1 brd or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel
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10-24-2012, 12:37 AMDemon6324236
I only think BRD+SCH+DDx4 will be how NNI is done now because BRDs can give out Double Marches & then camp the lamp while the SCH slowly dishes out 6Min duration Hastes along with the initial Phalanx+Regen which so long as your DDs have PDT sets, should last them quite some time, then redo songs every 2~3 floors, and repeat till you hit 80 & kill the boss as usual.
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10-24-2012, 12:41 AMFupafighterThe best strat I see working now would be 1 heavy DD, 3 blu and 2 sch still. Shooting for 80 is main objective once cap hits haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkovChain
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10-24-2012, 12:42 AMMittenz
lol well that ends my adventures in end game. was just told to level a new job if I want to go to events by my LS because sch will no longer be used which I have no inclination on doing. Thanks SE~
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10-24-2012, 12:43 AMFupafighterI honestly can see the strat being 4 BLU 2 sch lol..... Sorry ya hate blu so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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10-24-2012, 12:47 AMSasaraixxIt's not really much of a buff for mages. Not having enough MP is not why mages aren't acceptable DD's for a lot of events. And even if that were the case, having an extra 7tick refresh for less than 3 minutes wouldn't change that one bit. The spell is pretty much useless now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
NNI will be harder now. The boss on floor 80 being easier than 100 makes absolutely not difference when you're going to be lucky to make it to 80 at all.
SCH usefulness in some endgame events just took a nose dive. As painful as NNI is going to be, I think you might still take one SCH for Regen V, Phalanx and Embrava for those last few floors. You'll definitely be bringing a Dura BRD now though. -
10-24-2012, 12:53 AMsaevelWon't be best. BLU's biggest / only weakness is vs big boss's which is where the WAR's and SAM's tend to come in. Your setup will just swap one SCH out for a BRD, preferably a Empy BRD. The 2nd one will have to be a SCH, a SMN simply can't heal enough for the upper floors stupidity. SCH can do 7:30 hastes to go with the BRD's extended double march's. The only thing that hurts from the loss of Embrava is the sheer amount of HP it healed over time. Regen V is only 60s duration, so with gloves we're talking a 2.5min effect. Coordinating buffs and the SCH precharging their abilities will be essential for any chance at a win. At least floor 80 x 5 is reasonably achievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
The typical setup I've used to great effect is
DDx3
BLUx1
SCH
SCHBRD
I've also successfully swapped one of the DD's with a 99 Mandau THF/WAR, though this was an incredibly well geared and skilled THF. Me (BLU) and him would run off and start doing stuff on our own, THF's natural evasion is so high that most mobs can't hit them for sh!t and the BLU can heal enough to keep the SCH focused on the two WAR's. -
10-24-2012, 12:53 AMMarkovChainBLU is *not* a DD, it's gimp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
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10-24-2012, 12:56 AMDemon6324236Eh, 2SCH would be fairly pointless unless the duration changes, same with 4BLU if the main reliance is on MP, that is unless they change the duration back up to 5Min. At 3Min it will be so where you still want the SCH for Regen & Phalanx to cut down on damage & time wasted on shit mobs while you want a BRD for the DD buffs, and rather than asking about Enhancing Magic skill it will be more about the BRD having a Emp harp, and duration+ gear for songs. Or at least thats how I see it going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
Oh the duration is shit, no matter what else they do that has to change I agree, but I was just sayin I can see Refresh working somewhat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaraixx
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10-24-2012, 01:00 AMKarbuncle
I think if the Duration would have stayed the Same, the Strategy would have changed quite little, but as it stands now, thats going to be the most devastating hit to it. BRD is definitely going to find a spot in the party.
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10-24-2012, 01:23 AMFupafighter
I can see bard. But I still can't see having 3+ heavy DD in the party. They just simply take too much damage. Blu can atleast cure themselves and stun spam the monsters. And on fodder mobs, blu destroys them. Heavy DD are losing their regain. That's huge. I would say most likely then 3 blu, 2 heavy DD, and 1 bard. Sound reasonable lol? Or maybe even have a good corsair go along that can contribute good damage, and possibly give out 4 regain on a 5 on floor ups. So maybe 3 blu 2 heavy DD and a brd, or 3 blu, 1 heavy DD, cor, and brd. Plus don't forget this event involves running more than anything, so brd using a song for movement speed is prolly a good idea.
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10-24-2012, 01:29 AMHimuraKenshyn
Not very happy at the moment its basically now content only for the geared out the ass folks and the common man will suck it. Well its the lazy common man that pays the bills and SE may feel that after these changes in the wallet soon a few have already quit after blinker gate I wonder how many more will. It's not like back in the day we didn't have many options today we have way to many.....
I think my LS now consist of more account mules than real players..... -
10-24-2012, 01:32 AMnewmonkeyThe common man shall indeed suck it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HimuraKenshyn
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10-24-2012, 01:36 AMsaevel
COR buffs take too long to put up, NNI is about being stupidly fast and time efficient. BRD's have Nightingale and Troubadour so they can pound out 2~4 sounds at lighting speed. Their still stuck with having to sing one set of march's in between JA timers, but that can be mitigated if they time it with the SCH's buff spells and a really good FC/-cast time set.
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10-24-2012, 01:39 AMDemon6324236This is why Regen+Phalanx+PDT Gear sets=win. If you leave out the SCH you lose the mass Regen & devoted heals to the Heavy DDs, on top of that you lose the long lasting Haste from the SCHs, and even the last minute zergbrava for the boss. BRD will no doubt be in the setup, most likely with Marchx2, possibly Marchx2 & Move Speed with Emp, but losing SCH hurts HP recovery to much, while BRD will be the only way to pick up kill speed really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
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10-24-2012, 01:45 AMMefukiIndeed, a sort of "rich get richer" scenario is a concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by HimuraKenshyn
On a separate note, I really don't understand SE mentality to the adjustments to the events. Nyzul is going to be harder and take longer to finish which basically ignores the feedback they received from us and actually does the opposite. As for Legion and Odin: a monsters max HP has nothing to do with them throwing out 2K TP moves on a whim. Do they not understand why people use PD? Sure, we can now kill them a little faster...provided people are alive to do it. -
10-24-2012, 01:48 AMKarbuncleCORs can also help DD. I mean, Its definitely going to be BRD > COR in Nyzul Isle, But COR would only be a slightly less awful Second place if they were any good.Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel
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10-24-2012, 01:58 AMLuvbunnyIt's pretty much this. The good thing is they have been extremely lazy when it comes to adjusting older contents so that the accessibility of abyssea, dynamis, and pre 99 expansions are still there. The bad thing is that now RMT is going to swarm back those older areas and destroying people's enjoyment. Not to mention all new contents after abyssea are pretty much created to be non accessible, with random generated numbers guaranteed that you will wasted your time and effort with nothing much to shows other than logs and ores that sells for peanuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by HimuraKenshyn
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10-24-2012, 03:24 AMSakura317In Japanese forum
There is an official announcement about PD and Embrava.
I think it will translated from Japanese to English formally, but before this, I've translate the statement.
The original announcement is this.
Here is my translation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriole
My english is not so good, butQuote:
About Job Ability adjustment: Perfect Defense/Tabula Rasa.
Hello, everyone!
Before adding new 2hr ability and shortening recast of existing 2hr ability, we are planning to change the result of both Perfect Defense and Tabula Rasa.
The adjustments will implement on the test server in this week, we'd like to take your feedbacks to introduce how the abilities will be changed.
- About Perfect Defense
Duration: Shorten 90 seconds to 30 seconds + 1 sec/20 Summoning skill
When your SMN skill is 600, it will last 60 seconds at a maximum. (30 + 30 seconds).
Advantage: Same as previous. - About Tabula Rasa
Embrava, the white magic that can be used only within the duration of Tabula Rasa, will be changed as follows.
Duration: Shorten from 5 minutes to 90 seconds.
Haste effect: lowered from +1%/15 Enhancing Magic Skill to +1%/20 Enhancing Magic Skill.
When your Enhancing magic skill is 500, it will reach +25% at a maximum.
Regain effect: change to refresh. (The rate is same as previous.)
Along with the adjustment of these abilities, some battle contents that utilizing of the two abilities is the mainstream to win, will be adjusted to step down difficulty level. - About Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey
The quantity of Astrarium to convert a gear will be reduced from 25 to 5.
* The Astrarium that you already have will be divided by 5. (Round off fractions).
The basic concept that [clearing 100th floor is difficult without luck] won't be changed.
Reduction of Astrarium's required quantity is to balance out, because we expect this content will be harder to reach higher along with Embrava's downgrade. - About Region
Monsters' HP will be cut by about 10%.
All monsters' HP will be reduced.
Along with frequently used buffering abilities will be downgraded, we will adjust this contents to accelerate turns, and users can defeat monsters as much as before this adjustment. - About Einherjar
The HP of Odin that is appeared in Odin's Chamber II will be cut by about 10 - 15%.
Unlike Region, this contents is fight for only one monster, we adjust HP reduction rate of Odin is more than that of monsters in Region.
These contents will be harder because we adjust to inhibit the effect of too strong abilities; however, the general meaning of this adjustment is [to become a little hard, but not to be impossible].
This adjustment will be implemented on the test server in this week, but we will continue to check and adjust arbitrarily after this adjustment, so please feedback to us.
Unlike Region, this contents is fight for only one monster, we adjust HP reduction rate of Odin is more than that of monsters in Region.
is NOT mistranslation.
Foolish.
Normal people think [fighting 3 of tough monstrs at the same time (region)] is harder than [one monster (Einherihar)], so 3 tough monsters have to be reduced their HP more than Odin...
and
Perfect Defense and Embrava are frequently used in the fight for Arch Dynamis Lord and Provenance Watcher, too, but it takes little time for fighting, so we keep a wait-and-see attitude toward these contents and don't adjust anything this time.
is also NOT my mistranslation
The developpers don't recognize why the fight for Arch Dynamis Lord and Provenance Wather takes so short time.
(Of course they are too strong to fight to take long time...) - About Perfect Defense
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10-24-2012, 04:00 AMSiiri
I like the nyzul changes. I think they will not hinder a good group, just win 5 80s instead of 1 100. It will be fun to have strategy and try different combinations. I been playing this game for 7 years and I thought embrava/PD strategies were kind of boring.
I think they missed the boat on the legion /ADL/PW stuff. Its the tp moves that are killer not the hp. That needs to be changed. -
10-24-2012, 04:25 AMKriegsgottthank you for posting this!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura317
(arigatou!) -
10-24-2012, 04:41 AMTaint2Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkovChain
Please stop spreading this bad info.
My LS has killed ADL without PD (12 total including mules) and you were well aware of that before making this post. -
10-24-2012, 04:46 AMTaint2Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirael
Just wanted to clear this up. We killed without PD with 12 players, including atleast 3 mules. Our LS isn't even big enough to make an alliance. We tried it for fun at the end of a run and won. We kept him squall locked almost the entire time post split.
The Zombieing was a different kill altogether. We used PD that fight and got unlucky. -
10-24-2012, 04:47 AMSiiriHi Taint,'Quote:
Originally Posted by Taint2
if you don't mind can you elaborate on what would be needed to clear ADL without pd? My static has 10 people and we just started, were 1/2 last run but that was mostly just getting our feet wet. Didn't find it particularly hard with PD and embrava. Do we need more than 10 after this adjustment? Did you have 2 smns shock squalling? Any other general guidance? thanks
Edit: I guess you answered this mostly while I was posting. Thanks for info. We the same, don't' really want a full alliance, 10-12 most we want a run. -
10-24-2012, 05:01 AMMarkovChainNo you didn't, it's in your dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taint2
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10-24-2012, 05:06 AMFupafighter
I just feel throwing in a cor over a brd that will basically just stand there seems better. Cor can do pretty well on fodder mobs. And wildfire seems nice for flans and such. And cor takes long to buff, IF you go for an 11. Lucky rolls are still beneficial by alot. Last stand/wildfire cor with a good tp/ws setup is good. And cor also gets exent. Brd can barely DD lol. I would rather have another potential DD spreading out giving decent buffs opposed to a brd giving better buffs standing there.
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10-24-2012, 05:14 AMTaint2Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkovChain
lol...hater -
10-24-2012, 05:17 AMPlasticlegqq only mnks can do adl qqQuote:
Originally Posted by Taint2
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10-24-2012, 05:25 AMZagenCOR can do 1 roll in the time a BRD would do 2x March. On top of that if you shift the BRD to be the lamp "operator" they can do 5+min Marches the whole run. That's 22% Haste on each DD that melees, dunno about your but I wouldn't bank on a COR being able to make up that damage even when factoring in rolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
Edit: If lamp floors or floors where mobs are spread out I could see COR winning due to regain roll still doing something where as marches wouldn't be doing anything. -
10-24-2012, 05:48 AMFupafighterExactly my point. You're always moving in nyzle. The event is 50% run, 50% kill. And for the most part, you don't need that much damage, you need more people to spread out and do the objective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
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10-24-2012, 05:57 AMDrForester
Can't wait to see tomorrows reveal on the Sqaure Enix "Screw You Players" week.