Suggestion: Restorable Relic/Mythic/Empyreal Weapons

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I'm sorry I feel people should own up to their screw ups and learn to be more careful.

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Yes, if I accidentally drop my mythic I sure hope I can learn my lesson and not drop my second mythic.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

It's good that you're aware of some of your poor qualities. Apology accepted.

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That was sarcasm I'm not actually sorry. When I screw up in life, I own up to it, learn from it, and then work on a solution as needed. In life there are things you can screw up on and things you can't afford to screw up on, why shouldn't this game be different?


Considering the latest content the devs just released still has random crashes related to it that they can't figure out I'd much rather they waste less time on something that is 100% the player's fault and work on fixing crap that they've screwed up on.

Don't worry, I didn't think for a second that you were.

And yeah, why shouldn't the game be different?

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Originally Posted by Zagen

In life there are things you can screw up on and things you can't afford to screw up on, why shouldn't this game be different?

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Game. It's a game. So why shouldn't it be different? Well, because people play to get away from rl. Making the game like rl, well, defeats the entire purpose of gaming.

1. It's a simple fix
2. accidents happen
3. In a game, there's an opportunity to fix mistakes, unlike sometimes in rl

Just like the af2+2 augmented storage thread, people are arguing for the sake of arguing. If you've never made a mistake then good for you. But some people have, and destroying their X amount of hours spent on a 2 second accident is just wrong.

Not to mention, if you drop a sword in real life, you can pick it right up again!

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

1. It's a simple fix

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As someone who's worked on various games as a designer and jr. programmer everything about meeble burrows should have been a simple implementation as everything involved in it is already in game in some variation. And it's broke.

If changing relic/emp/mythic weapons to items that just couldn't be dropped was simple it would have been implemented just as quickly as the white/blue boarders on currency was implemented.

I wonder why it hasn't... maybe because it isn't that simple. Maybe because the way the game programmed relic/emps/mythics are no different than a Magicked Skull. So if they added a flag to make them so they couldn't be dropped they'd make all Rare/Ex items that way.

All of these are guesses of course but what doesn't change is the fact that it hasn't been implemented means it needs research and likely a fairly decent amount of extra coding, that's man hours that could be applied to fix bugs such as the random burrows d/cing.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

If you've never made a mistake then good for you. But some people have, and destroying their X amount of hours spent on a 2 second accident is just wrong.

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I do make mistakes, I learn from them. Did you not read right before what you quoted?

That was a you in a general sense, because others in the thread have said they've never made these types of mistakes. And the implementation of meeble burrows is fairly irrelevant. SE has made items non-droppable, like in moogle slips. They have made re-obtainable items from finishing quest lines like the CoP rings. The tools already exist, unlike meeble burrows which is its own new system.

@ Mirage - touche

p.s. - try learning from dropping a mythic. Only very few have the time/resources to even make 1.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

That was a you in a general sense, because others in the thread have said they've never made these types of mistakes.

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Saying it after quoting me without proclaiming that it was a general "you" doesn't make that clear. I'm sure those that feel the same way I do have dropped crap and they probably learned from their mistake.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

SE has made items non-droppable, like in moogle slips.

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Drop a slip let me know how that goes on getting your items back. By the way SE has already said if you do this you will lose all items that are stored on that slip if you actually do this. So no items haven't been made so they can't be dropped.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

And the implementation of meeble burrows is fairly irrelevant... The tools already exist, unlike meeble burrows which is its own new system.

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Burrows fix = Dev Time.
Relic non-drop otption = Dev Time.

So ya it's relevant.

What isn't in game already?

Stay Alive for X time? WHM Maat fight.
Don't die? Die soloing or have the group wipe a VNM and it's gone.
Don't aggro a monster? Gears in Nyzul.
Survive to getting to a point? Nyzul Lamp among other things.
Same time death of mobs? Salvage and the Dragon Burning Circle fight.
Feed worms? Feed NPCs in Assault.

Wait!!!! there is a way to make your relic/mythic/empy undroppable!!!

/equip main "insert r/m/e here"

Why wouldn't it be equipped?

You mean I can equip masamune while on thf? That sounds awesome, how do I do it?

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Originally Posted by Mirage

You mean I can equip masamune while on thf? That sounds awesome, how do I do it?

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why you carrying around a masa on thf? that's kinda goofy.

Because I don't always have time to move all my sam gear into a different storage every time I change job.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Because I don't always have time to move all my sam gear into a different storage every time I change job.

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O.o S.e. provides us with safe storage, and we don't use it, and we want them to build us a lazier way to take care of stuff, becuase we're not paying attention.

If it's thatttttttt important, I'd think you'd be a little safer with it, make the time instead of griping around about how much s.e. isn't doing for you. (you say yourself you spend wayyyy to much time posting here, maybe a lil less posting and a bit more attention to what's happening on your screen?)

I never said I spend way too much time posting here. I have also not thrown away anything of significant value yet.

Seems like if anyone needs to pay more attention here, it would be you.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I never said I spend way too much time posting here.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I'm not going to compile a complete list over items that look similar to other items. Despite all the time I spend posting on this forum, I actually do not have time for that sort of a thing.

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seems to me you don't have time for alot of things. but whatever, spliting hairs is spliting hairs.

And being douche-ish is being douche-ish, people complaining about wanting a safety feature for valuable items is reasonable, not having it is unreasonable. When I play any other Final Fantasy game you know one thing I find great? When I fuck up I can reset the system, reload my save, get my stuff back so I can fix those mistakes, you cant do that here though, you get 1 time of doing that basically then no more, so far as I understand at least.

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It really is quite sad how a suggestion of such tiny scale that will have no distinct impact on any design structure of the game and would only serve to improve quality of mind within some relic holders is being met with such determined resistance.

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The hilarious part is that the people that are against really simple fixes to the game pretty much always cite the same two arguments against it over and over:
1. Something about SE Spaghetti Coding
2. Something about Dev time being wasted VS more meaningful content
Of these, the first used to just be an in-joke among players because they would adjust SMN and end up breaking Sneak Attack (Which is actually somewhat logical in that they're both combat mechanics) or something similar. It's one of those things that players joked about and people with broken sarcasm detectors ran with and had it mutate into an Urban (Jeunoan?) Legend. In truth, any actual programming limitations are usually directly communicated to us, the latest example being auto-RA:

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To address that issue would take a huge overhaul to the core system, so unfortunately it's not as simple as you might hope.

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So, if there was actually some kind of difficulty with programming this, they would probably actually tell us, and the people who support such a change would likely reconsider. With that in mind, the second point becomes self-defeating, because if it's so hard to program simple fixes that it actually delays things, it means they're so understaffed, so incompetent, or so lazy (take your pick) that the meaningful content you're waiting for going to be about as on schedule as Godot.

Also I love the whole argument about FFXI supposedly being what's needed to teach you to be careful, because it's entirely a straw argument. Not to mention the fact that these mythical people old enough to be playing this game actually needing to be taught that lesson are beyond help.

I've thrown away something I didn't want to throw away (Mirage Shalwar and Marduk's Shalwar are way too similar). So there goes my one-time restore.

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Originally Posted by Nawesemo

why you carrying around a masa on thf? that's kinda goofy.

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I've got Ghorn, Daurdabla, and Carnwenhan. At any given time, at least one instrument is unequipped, and I generally use mythic as a mid-cast piece. It's very possible.

I'm not sure why people are so against this. Even if you yourself are perfect and have never accidentally dropped anything, why not throw a bone for the idiots like me?

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

And being douche-ish is being douche-ish, people complaining about wanting a safety feature for valuable items is reasonable, not having it is unreasonable. When I play any other Final Fantasy game you know one thing I find great? When I fuck up I can reset the system, reload my save, get my stuff back so I can fix those mistakes, you cant do that here though, you get 1 time of doing that basically then no more, so far as I understand at least.

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Go play another MMO, I haven't played em all but many of them when you toss an item you're screwed.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I've thrown away something I didn't want to throw away (Mirage Shalwar and Marduk's Shalwar are way too similar). So there goes my one-time restore.

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Did you learn to be more careful?

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Originally Posted by detlef

I'm not sure why people are so against this. Even if you yourself are perfect and have never accidentally dropped anything, why not throw a bone for the idiots like me?

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As has been stated by myself and others. Implementing this or even looking to it means dev time is being wasted on something that exists in the game to a degree and is 100% the players fault. And SE has come out saying that the dev team is small so there aren't a ton of people splitting up tasks. If FFXI was major bug free I wouldn't care.

Sadly it isn't there are major bugs in the game right now, and some of the they don't even have a clue how to fix. I'm sure they'll figure it out and it is sad that things were implemented without finding these bugs but figuring it out takes time. Time some people want wasted on even further hand holding features that most players won't care about because they're careful.

On top of bugs there are major features being worked on for new jobs, new expansion, old jobs, etc. All of these take time, and will add much, much more value to the player base as a whole than making items undroppable because some players are irresponsible and don't want to be more careful.

As someone who has accidentally dropped something of value, I can safely say I'd rather see them impliment this and make sure it cannot happen again as opposed to adding new content, especially when said new content has been rather lackluster as of late. Hell, I've wanted up-gradable Salvage gear since it became outdated, but I'd easily wait longer to see this added.

Nowadays most people are running round in Empyrean Weapons, the number of relics being made is shooting up as well. People who made a Emp for their job are now making Relics too. Can they equip an Ukon while they're using Ragnarok on their WAR? Of course not. Accidents like this are going to happen more often as a result of the Relic boom. If you pour hours or millions of gil into one item, you'd want it back if you tossed it.

Nice to see the devs are looking into this, lets hope they extend it to stuff like Black Belt, Storage Slips etc.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Go play another MMO, I haven't played em all but many of them when you toss an item you're screwed.

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Oh, well then its simple, lets have FFXI be like every other MMO which screws people, rather than improving what everyone else does by fixing that.

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Originally Posted by Sargent

As someone who has accidentally dropped something of value, I can safely say I'd rather see them impliment this and make sure it cannot happen again as opposed to adding new content, especially when said new content has been rather lackluster as of late. Hell, I've wanted up-gradable Salvage gear since it became outdated, but I'd easily wait longer to see this added.

Nowadays most people are running round in Empyrean Weapons, the number of relics being made is shooting up as well. People who made a Emp for their job are now making Relics too. Can they equip an Ukon while they're using Ragnarok on their WAR? Of course not. Accidents like this are going to happen more often as a result of the Relic boom. If you pour hours or millions of gil into one item, you'd want it back if you tossed it.

Nice to see the devs are looking into this, lets hope they extend it to stuff like Black Belt, Storage Slips etc.

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I poured a year into Dynamis waiting for my turn on RDM Hat back when it was an achievement. I dropped it due to my stupidity, I didn't use my restore for it because back then that wasn't an option, I just got back in line. I would rather see fresh content instead of trying to fix stupidity, because there is no fix for it besides learning from it.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Implementing this or even looking to it means dev time is being wasted on something that exists in the game to a degree and is 100% the players fault..

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Server lag, and auto-sorting isn't the player's fault. Have you ever had treasure falling into your inventory when you're trying to clean it? It can change the item you have highlighted last second. Same goes with lotting items when new items enter the pool(which isn't a problem due to the ability to cancel the lot). But you don't get that option after dropping items.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Server lag, and auto-sorting isn't the player's fault. Have you ever had treasure falling into your inventory when you're trying to clean it? It can change the item you have highlighted last second. Same goes with lotting items when new items enter the pool(which isn't a problem due to the ability to cancel the lot). But you don't get that option after dropping items.

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You know when i my friend and I duo Dynamis the treasure pool fills up a lot before we can lot/pass to clean it up, we stop and take 5 seconds to clear it before refilling it. 10-20 seconds if either of us is full and we need to move stuff around in the inventory.

When I start to lag the last thing I think about doing is messing with my inventory.

It boils down to it. From now on all I'll see is "I dropped something important, and was screwed, You should suffer this too!". I mean, I know it sucks to lose something you worked for... But if thats the case, Instead of being a Butthurt about it, Why not just say....

"It was an awful experience, I hope my fellow player and gamer never has to go through it, I hope they add this update to prevent mishaps like this and improve piece of mind for a good portion of their playerbase!".

I really understand how, If this would directly impact the economy, Drop rates, job balance, or anything like that, Why people would resist the idea. However, This is a Harmless idea that they could, in all honestly, throw in with the Expansion or the next version update in a tiny "Update notes" at the bottom of the page under "Item Adjustments" and no one would bat an eye to it.

Zag, Its simply really difficult for me to understand how someone can have a mindset of "If you're not perfect F*ck you and your mistakes" like you do Zaggan. I mean, Were you abused by a Mandau as a kid? Did a man drop his relic after killing your family once? Did a man walk up to you, Kick you in the balls, and tell you "Hey, I make mistakes sometimes", then walk away?

I'm just really confused why you have such an unnatural hate and resistance for the idea of the Devs swapping some Tags on a relic to give people an added lair of Security for the item, Since, Especially for Mythics, They're hard to obtain.

No one claims it would be the games fault we dropped one, We all acknowledge it would be 100% Human Error. I don't plan on dropping mine any time soon, But if for whatever reason i saw the words "You throw away a (Mandau)" I'd like to know my momentary lapse of judgement will not be met with the proceeding cancellation of my account.

Everyone will drop something important in their FFXI Career, Which is why 1-time Restore Exists. Relics/Empyreans, and Especially Mythics, Take a considerable time to obtain, They should have a second lair of protection. Even if its a third "ARE YOU SUPER SURE YOU WANNA TOSS THIS BRO?" Option, that would distinguish it from an ordinary item.

Also - Random fact of the day. If you have an Item in a Storage Slip, the Storage Slip becomes untossable. I know, I've loaded one up with some crappy 15 salvage item and tried to toss it, It will not leave your inventory. I can only Imagine making Relic/Myth/Empyr the same would be no large undertaking.

SE Themselves, in this thread, While mentioning time constraints, said it would be a matter of messing with the Tags on R/M/E. I can't imagine it would take much fiddling to make the item undroppable, Or Link it to a Key item like a suggestion earlier, Allowing you to Reobtain it if you were to mistakingly drop it.

There are hundreds of "Quality of Life" Adjustments in this game that people rarely use or even realize exist. This one be simply one more to the list that would ease peoples minds.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Also - Random fact of the day. If you have an Item in a Storage Slip, the Storage Slip becomes untossable. I know, I've loaded one up with some crappy 15 salvage item and tried to toss it, It will not leave your inventory. I can only Imagine making Relic/Myth/Empyr the same would be no large undertaking.

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Thanks for the confirmation on this. I was pretty sure they adjusted the slips after dropping them was brought up on the forums.

And one more note; if SE truly takes a significant amount of dev time to address making 60 items untossable/reobtainable, then there is no hope for any decent content in the future. So, the arguement of them spending dev time on new things is moot. As is, it's almost guaranteed that there is a separate group working on SoA (like for abyssea), and the group working on the current "updates" are who's remaining.

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Also - Random fact of the day. If you have an Item in a Storage Slip, the Storage Slip becomes untossable.

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This was actually mentioned in the first two or three pages, but I guess people didn't read up on the fact that code already exists to tag items to be un-tossable.

By the way, the slips were like that when they were first added to the game, it was never an adjustment they had to do.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Zag, Its simply really difficult for me to understand how someone can have a mindset of "If you're not perfect F*ck you and your mistakes" like you do Zaggan. I mean, Were you abused by a Mandau as a kid? Did a man drop his relic after killing your family once? Did a man walk up to you, Kick you in the balls, and tell you "Hey, I make mistakes sometimes", then walk away?

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I want cool stuff not hand holding for babies. It has nothing to do with being traumatized.

Also it's 1 "g" and an "e" not an "a". Highlight > Copy > Paste next time and you won't have to worry about spelling a name right.

I'm still waiting for that explanation for how taking something like an hour of a dev's day to tag ~60 items with something that already exists in the game is going to delay your precious neo salvage or Seekers of Adoulin.

Since you're in the business of making sure everything at SE headquarters runs like a well-oiled machine void of work you don't care for, you better make sure they don't add do something even more insignificant, like adding the Adoulin logo to the title screen or fixing Isgebind's paralyze resistance even though he only survives for a grand total of 30 seconds, I mean, people don't even ask for those things!

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Originally Posted by Kincard

I'm still waiting for that explanation for how taking something like an hour of a dev's day to tag ~60 items with something that already exists in the game is going to delay your precious neo salvage or Seekers of Adoulin.

Since you're in the business of making sure everything at SE headquarters runs like a well-oiled machine void of work you don't care for, you better make sure they don't add do something even more insignificant, like adding the Adoulin logo to the title screen or fixing Isgebind's paralyze resistance even though he only survives for a grand total of 30 seconds.

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If it was so simple to do why hasn't it been done instead of announcing they were looking into it?

You'd almost think they'd created a forum to communicate with the players or something.

Though now that you mention it, given that they still haven't given us access to Mog Safes outside even though it'd be such an easy thing to do, you've reminded me that any news about this adjustment probably won't be heard until 3 or 4 years down the line anyway, so you can sigh in relief they'll add in something else that's useless instead.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

As has been stated by myself and others. Implementing this or even looking to it means dev time is being wasted on something that exists in the game to a degree and is 100% the players fault. And SE has come out saying that the dev team is small so there aren't a ton of people splitting up tasks. If FFXI was major bug free I wouldn't care.

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To some extent I can appreciate this logic. But it's safe to say that the purpose of the vast majority of the updates we've gotten in the last year or so have focused on little things to make the game more enjoyable and less annoying. It's clear that a significant chunk of the dev teams' efforts is devoted to something exactly like this suggestion. With this being the case, I hope that this is addressed in the future.

All this talk of "learning your lesson" baffles me. I know somebody who accidentally made a mistake and bought a ton of o. bronze for the silver price and he was in a funk for weeks before disappearing. For a lot of people, a tossed relic or the like is very similar. It's almost like throwing away a year's worth of effort. It may be something you learn your lesson from, but it's far more likely to be something that makes you quit the game.