Rant About Current End Game - ADL and Voidwatch = Old FFXI, No Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

You do realize how fast sam and drg can get 300 tp right? 1 meditate = 180 tp. Your a moron lol. Can maintain AM3 on drg and sam, and the aftermath will eat any other DD alive.

---

You can maintain AM3 on any DD idiot, you are just wasting 2 weapon skills to do so and last I checked DRG 300%TP dragoon's WS doesn't equal to 3 x 100 TP ws, so go back to thinking you have a clue. AM3 is soo short that it's only worth it with at least double march/haste, and since it doesn't overwrite itself you have to stay engaged the whole time or any second while you are not engaged is going to waste.bin. "Riding" AM3 is not realistic for 99% of the content. They remain great weapons to use @ 100 TP though, but probably no the best so stop using AM3 as an argument as to why mythics are great.

The only job where it's possibly the best is PUP because of no relic, and because they didn't gimp the DPS nor the mythic WS, so it's already better than empy at 100 tp probably.

Wasting two Weaponskills to get an Aftermath up that lasts 3 minutes is frankly a drop in the bucket compared to the fact You'd know have a high damage with With Occ Atks 2-3x for 3 minutes. its multiplying your WS Frequency dramatically, which will more than make up for the 2 missed Weaponskills.

And thats assuming you even waste 2 full Weaponskills, You have to consider TP Overflow, from double attacks, what have you. You could get bumped to about 120% TP from just a double attack at the right time, take into consideration for DRG getting over-TP from Jumps, if you hit 100% TP Perfectly, its wasting 2 WS, If you over-TP, which is far more likely, And that TP Won't carry over, so you end up wasting maybe 1 and a half Weaponskills.

I don't think you're horribly wrong, I just think you underestimate the effects of having a your TP-Phase damage, and WS Frequency doubled or higher for 3 minutes.

All aftermaths don't last 3 minutes. Only pup one does I believe. Other mythic last 120 sec = 2 minutes only. In order to maintain aftermath you don't only waste 200TP for the initial AM3, but you do it EVERY cycle, like you will need 300 tp right before AM3 wear off. Let's say it takes 20 sec to build 100 TP, without AM, you will need like ~ 40 sec to build 300 TP so you can only take advantage of AM3 for 1'20s. Needless to say, ALL the mythics weapons beside DRG and PUP are pretty much excluded at this point, aka all the mythics WS that don't suck. For DRG, it probably slightly winning *IF* you can maintain AM3 like I said, but it's not realistic except failwatch I guess. Basically what I'm saying is wasting alex on anything but PUP is a waste of epeen. I'm going to say that AM3 pup beats anything but I never really did the math, my only consideration are the fact that SP w/o mythic boost = victory smite, with a similar DPS as vere but 3 or 4 tier of martial arts, so a normal weapon were you don't have to use AM3 to make it not suck. If you zerk well it's even stronger obviously with AM3 and SP-spam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

All aftermaths don't last 3 minutes. Only pup one does I believe. Other mythic last 120 sec = 2 minutes only. In order to maintain aftermath you don't only waste 200TP for the initial AM3, but you do it EVERY cycle, like you will need 300 tp right before AM3 wear off. Let's say it takes 20 sec to build 100 TP, without AM, you will need like ~ 40 sec to build 300 TP so you can only take advantage of AM3 for 1'20s. Needless to say, ALL the mythics weapons beside DRG and PUP are pretty much excluded at this point, aka all the mythics WS that don't suck. For DRG, it probably slightly winning *IF* you can maintain AM3 like I said, but it's not realistic except failwatch I guess. Basically what I'm saying is wasting alex on anything but PUP is a waste of epeen. I'm going to say that AM3 pup beats anything but I never really did the math, my only consideration are the fact that SP w/o mythic boost = victory smite, with a similar DPS as vere but 3 or 4 tier of martial arts, so a normal weapon were you don't have to use AM3 to make it not suck. If you zerk well it's even stronger obviously with AM3 and SP-spam.

---

All lvl 80 mythics get 180 seconds of aftermath on lvl 3 aftermath. 75 used to be bad, but you do realize a sam can get 300 tp in a matter of 30 seconds right? And you get a high base damage with OA2-3x and it can proc on ws, thus for 180 seconds, you get say a 2.2k average shoha, turning into a 3.5k+ shoha. That beats the shit out of lol masa or amano. Ryuno will just straight up mess up any DD because drakesbane alone will get a 30% damage boost. Add triple attack on that and you have yourselved the best weapon in the game. Basically put it this way, any 2 hander's best option(except MAYBE warrior) best option is mythic. BLU DNC and WHM all get great bonus's from their mythics too. You are too obsessed with how mediocre relics are thinking that they dominate mythics when you know nothing about mythics.

K so mythic ranged weapons with lvl 3 get 180 seconds of 40% occ double damage and 20% occ triple damage. And then all main hand mythics get 40% double attack and 20% triple attack. I'm guessing if the double and triple attack can proc on weaponskills, the double and triple damage can proc on ws too for mythics. Just saying, your underestimating what the lvl 3 aftermath is capable of. I can understand if your doing weak content like abyssea or sky or dynamis, but in situations like upcoming legion and VW, which are the endgame content that we will be doing the most, I would say that maintaining lvl 3 aftermath on mythic will pretty much push people past any other DD in their category by far.

You didn't prove anything in your post beside throwing random eyeballing damage increase and omg lol I can jump and get 300 tp instantly. DRG or SAM don't have any advantage when using mythics over relics. Anytime you waste any TP on aftermath, the relic guy is going to smoke you with his WS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You didn't prove anything in your post beside throwing random eyeballing damage increase and omg lol I can jump and get 300 tp instantly. DRG or SAM don't have any advantage when using mythics over relics. Anytime you waste any TP on aftermath, the relic guy is going to smoke you with his WS.

---

K whatever you say lol. I have seen ryunohige and koga in action, and they are epic. I have seen amano and gugnir, and they are garbage. You do realize sam basically gets no benefits from amano except the lol x3 damage right? And same with gugnir. And does the x3 damage proc on ws for relics?

And yes, you can maintain AMl3 on any DD, but they don't get 180 seconds now do they?... I just think that your only argument is "I have relics, and I'm afraid to admit that mythic's may actually be good, so I'm going to call them garbage".

Relic Mnk = incredibly tough? I dunno about that. Every monk I've seen with empyreal seems to blow out any saraphai monk in terms of WS dmg. Final Heaven = lol. Unless you can prove me wrong on that one, show me a screenshot of a relic mnk doing 5-6k Final Heaven then I'll shut up.

you don't use final heaven you use shijin spiral. I mean even with the lv99 FH boost asuran fist should still be better than FH.

Anyway, about the mythic for jobs like DRG and SAM amd 2Hander in general. Remember occasionally attack thrice is not as good as it looks, a lot of your melee hits are being wasted (over TP).

now for relic versus empy H2H. The average semi-serious player can easilly get either weapons nowaday. spharai 95 verus verth 90, spharai compeltely owns unless zerging with 300TP+impetu s(ADL zerg for example). If you compare wepons with same level, say spharai verus verths @ 99 (both wepons cost aboutt he same $$), spharai still owns, and it has gotten and indirect boost @99 due to gjallarorn +4 now also capping spharai's delay, when the lv 95 Gjallarhorn didnt. thats roughly -5% delay or +5% additional damage.

K so its bad to get the tp faster and have occasional overflow, got ya lol. Better off building tp slower and doing less ws damage. Good call.

You are an idiot. He said it is not as good as what you think it is. It's not enough to say "I'm getting 50% double attack so I'm getting 100% more weapon skills". When will you math out empy sam vs mythic sam already ?

I have 90 masa, and I have seen 95 koga, and I get shit on haha. K so 40% double attack and 20% triple attack that proc on ws for THREE minutes, is not worth it because I could tp overflow. That makes no sense lol. That's like saying thf shouln't stack triple attack gear because it will cause them to occasionally go over 100 lol. Man oh man.... Get a mythic or go on the test servers and try it out. Relic sam and drg don't come close to mythics.

math it already and prove him wrong. FOr a job liek sam its really easy to calculate your average #hits/melee rounds and #hits/weapon skills, so its also easy to evaluate overTP. For info @ lv 75 for 6-hit build SAMs, over TP was about 15%, i.e 15% of your tp didn't contribute to WS. For example, you don't TP in ganesha's mala (I hope).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

I have 90 masa, and I have seen 95 koga, and I get shit on haha. K so 40% double attack and 20% triple attack that proc on ws for THREE minutes, is not worth it because I could tp overflow. That makes no sense lol. That's like saying thf shouln't stack triple attack gear because it will cause them to occasionally go over 100 lol. Man oh man.... Get a mythic or go on the test servers and try it out. Relic sam and drg don't come close to mythics.

---

I already explained that 300 TP is impossible to maintain and that the paper calculs explain that AM3 kept 100% makes mythics (slightly, like 10-15% maybe) ahead of other weapons. That's the problem, it's impossible too maitain. Not only do you need maxed haste buffs, but for every action you do that consumed seconds during the fight - reengaging a mob, using an item, using a job ability, missing the exact moment to use WS, missing - you lose a few percent of the advantage over the normal TP > 100% >WS >TP weapons. All this is quantifiable, and is a penalty for both type of weapon, but obviously more for mythics. The ONLY reason DRG'weapon doesn't suck is because it's usable @100 TP, same for PUP. The ability to use it for zerg is the cherry on the cake.

Theres no reasoning with quetz noobs, don't even bother.

Ask your LS noobs to transfer already. We sold the 5 marrows we got yesterday instantly.

Also today's VU is good news for the second SMN in the PT, as ramuh will get PD and won't depop (I think..).

Sad that people buy marrows 40-50 mil like it's nothing. Guess people like paying 250 million gil for their relic upgrades. People on my server sell for 40-100 mil and they sell.

K so your forgetting the point lol. How can a sam not maintain a aftermath lvl 3? meditate gives 180 tp....while your gaining that tp, your also swinging. I get 300 tp in 1 meditate timer. That's 20 seconds to basically get 300 tp. 1 rana at 300 = 3, yes I said THREE minutes of aftermath. Meditate timer is 2 minutes, 30 seconds for me. How would it be hard to maintain aftermath level 3. Drg. Drg should be using /sam or /war. Prefered /sam, so they get 60 meditate, and then 2 jumps within 3 minutes. Most jumps average how much? I see my cousin jump for 120 all the time. That doesn't seem like it would take more than a minute to save 300 tp. Give up already, some mythic shit all over relics, and just because you have relic 99s, doesn't mean they're the best in the game. I purposely don't have spharai and amano because they are worse damage wise than my damn 90 empies, and I would gladly make mythic before I made those fail relics.

1) meditate gives 180 tp to an empy sam too which is is about 2 ws.
2) You can't maintain AM3 because there is basically no mob that last more than 3 minutes, even ADL, which has 100K HP, lasts the equivalent for maybe 45 sec... So unless you solo everything with BRD/COR/WHM and your mobs always have 400K HP you can't maintain AM3 without wasting it.
Therefore in 99% of the content you are switching between mobs that may or may not be at camp already, runing from position A to B etc. It's clear at this point that the only thing you do is voidfail, good for you, but that alone doesn't justify doing a mythic SAM.
3) I've explained you that PUP (and *maybe* DRG) will rape any DD with mythic or not, with AM3 or not, because the WS doesn't suck @ 100 TP. Any alex wasted on other jobs is fail, unless you have tremendous amount of gil of course.
4) Where is the best gear right now ? Think about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

1) meditate gives 180 tp to an empy sam too which is is about 2 ws.
2) You can't maintain AM3 because there is basically no mob that last more than 3 minutes, even ADL, which has 100K HP, lasts the equivalent for maybe 45 sec... So unless you solo everything with BRD/COR/WHM and your mobs always have 400K HP you can't maintain AM3 without wasting it.
Therefore in 99% of the content you are switching between mobs that may or may not be at camp already, runing from position A to B etc. It's clear at this point that the only thing you do is voidfail, good for you, but that alone doesn't justify doing a mythic SAM.
3) I've explained you that PUP (and *maybe* DRG) will rape any DD with mythic or not, with AM3 or not, because the WS doesn't suck @ 100 TP. Any alex wasted on other jobs is fail, unless you have tremendous amount of gil of course.
4) Where is the best gear right now ? Think about it.

---

Dynamis, VW, Legion. You do realize some people only have 1-2 jobs that they actually plan on making weapons for, so why not go all out. It's YOUR view of wasted gil, because you gear all your jobs with LOLrelics. Sam can easily maintain AM3, and there's no denying it, or you just don't play sam enough lol. I'm not going to do the math, because it's common sense lol. Amano get's kaiten, big whoopy. Sam doesn't rely on tp phase to do damage, and amano surely isn't going to put it on par with its ws frequency. Why would any sam in their right mind use amano. 1 hit ws have 95% acc, and any proper sam will have good acc is their ws set, therefore amano is USELESS compared to masa or koga for 99% of monsters in this game. Masamune 99 is a great option, only about 200 mil, provides 20 str, and the ability to fudo, which has good SC properties. Kaiten even with 40% damage bonus is still weak. You obviously don't understand sam and I give up. Am3 on drg and sam are the easiest to keep at lvl3, and provide amazing boosts to their jobs. And no pup will not "rape" every other DD lol. Their TP gain is extremely slow compared to drg, samurai, warrior, drk, even dnc. They could never maintain a proper DPS to compete unless they activated lvl 3 aftermath, even with their pets. Not hating on pup, just sayin it's not the best DD out there lol. And barely anyone does your damn ADL because there is alot more to the game then dynamis and farming damn marrows.

My SAM is level 0 and there is a reason. Just for your info relic monk is slightly ahead of empy monk outside of zergs, so relics are not "lol", they are just the best normal weapons typically.

1) eyeballing, amano is garbage and empy sam is better. But anything is better than SAM anyway. So stop trying to imply I said the sam relic iis the best weapon.
2) Yes pup will rape any other DD (incl mnk) with kenkonken most likely. Their mythic is = the dps of vere with a WS that = 1.4 x victory smite and -40 delay or something huge, plus they can use it at 100 TP unlike other fail mythics. The pet is just the cherry on the cake.
3) TP gain means nothing, what matter is pure damage from dot. Don't make us laugh with you 150 DMG 450 DMG weapons ; a relic MNK is outputting ~266 damage in 280 delay (2 fist @ 117 DMG, 30% chance at a kick), is gaining TP slightly slowlier than SAM but has a better WS lol, better crit rate and attack (impetus).

I can math out a comparison of TP gain from SAM and mnk they are not too far either. At cap haste you are looking at like 6.18 rounds on average to get 100% TP on spharai monks (less as vere monks obviously). With 2x march (hasso for lol SAM) both will get ~100 delay between rounds so you are looking at :
6.18x100/60 = 10.3 seconds for one weapon skill
while on 450 delay-6 hits SAMs it's close to
5*100/60=8.33 seconds
So no SAM don't get TP extremely fast compared to monks or pup lolz. Once you realise the monk did WAY MORE dot during those 10 sec than the SAM did during 8sec, and that mnk's WS will put the SAM ws to shame, the comparison is sealed.

Now consider Kenkonken PUP like a slighty slow monk with a 40% boost on his weaponskill, you get the picture, and that's only when using KKK @ 100 TP. If the PUP strats using his AM3 on a zerk he can only win. I think my ws on ADl do like 2-4K damage on monk, that should be 2.8-5.6k on pup and more frequently, though for our strat that won't matter since we tend to hold damage (and anyone doing adl should hold until 25%).

Did you really just compare tp gain of a mnk and a sam lol? Man you know nothing about sam and you're talkin as if you're a pro on it. Look up Ikishoten and the new zanshin with hasso. half the time sam ends up with TP overflow from just using hasso. Via you get a hasso zanshin proc at 80% tp with a 5 hit build in 36% haste solo. I know war/sam can't come close to a samurai TP gain, and that is with retalliation tanking too, so no way in hell can a mnk come close. You don't know anything about sam. How can you trash on a job you don't even play lol? And not everyone runs around in double march situations.... I kinda can't believe how you're saying "outside of zerg" situations it's not good lol. Ok so then they have a 90 masamune for when they aren't in a zerg situation, (which is rare for sam btw). It's not like masamune takes any effort. And I guarentee you, you're one of the very few that would contest the idea of a mythic sam being worse than a masamune samurai lol, less yet thinking any other job comes close to a samurai tp gain.

Oh and have you seen shoha? It's a pretty consistant 3k+ when buffed. I have spiked up to 5.5k with just double attack....No'one is going to contest the idea that MOST mythics can't maintain lvl 3 AM outside of zerg(like VW), but saying samurai and drg can't maintain the lvl 3 just makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about. And yes, yes I have 90 verethregna too. It doesn't come close to sam tp gain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

How can you trash on a job you don't even play lol?

---

Because it's fairly aysy to math out and was already done long ago while we still were at 75. Since you play SAM you should be able to inform us on the average time it takes you to reach 100 TP. Somehow I bet you can't give anything serious, mentionning Zanshin shows that you have no real clue of what makes or breaks TP gain. I'll do it for you though. But I'm sure you are going to contest it anyway lol.

Because you're talking about a 75 sam tp gain lol. Standard sam has a 5 hit with 25% haste in gear alone. With a 437 delay. With meditate being triple of a subjob samurai. Hassozanshin is a 25% proc rate, from my understanding, and gives almost 60 tp when it does proc. And all your scenareos are basically "I have a brd double marching me so tp gain isn't an issue", when be realistic, 95% of the playerbase doesn't get double marched fulltime. Half the time on my samurai, I end up with 160 tp just from hassozanshin procing or I can self sc w.o using meditate or sekkanoki, how in the hell is samurai garbage lol?

Not it's not 25% proc rate it is 25% of your base zanshin rate, it would act as a 11% DA rate except that QA TA an DA will be check first. Let's imagine you have 20 DA rate and 3% TA rate it would give roughly

with hasso+zanshin 1+0.03*2+0.97*(0.20*1+ 0.80*( 0.11*1 ) )=1.339 attacks on average
without 1+0.03*2+0.97*0.20*1=1.2540
It acts about as 9% DA rate. granted it gives more TP every time it proc but really it neglesctable seeing as this happen on 10% of your melee rounds.

You play SAM and have no clue what influence your DPS in what proportion. Meditade is definitely a minor part in SAM's TP gain. At best it is like 2 min 30 recast, what does this mean when it takes you 8 seconds to get 100 TP ??? It's funny that you are now mentionning that "you don't always have double march" because it's a neccessity to make any mythic AM3 worthwhile. So now when things go wrong with your arguments you try anything to counter it. I'm standing on my point that 2xmarch-hasso-6hit SAM takes roughly 8 sec to build 100 TP while monk takes 10. But maybe you'll find argument for getting TP faster than 8 seconds lol, who knows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Not it's not 25% proc rate it is 25% of your base zanshin rate, it would act as a 11% DA rate except that QA TA an DA will be check first. Let's imagine you have 20 DA rate and 3% TA rate it would give roughly

with hasso+zanshin 1+0.03*2+0.97*(0.20*1+ 0.80*( 0.11*1 ) )=1.339 attacks on average
without 1+0.03*2+0.97*0.20*1=1.2540
It acts about as 9% DA rate. granted it gives more TP every time it proc but really it neglesctable seeing as this happen on 10% of your melee rounds.

You play SAM and have no clue what influence your DPS in what proportion. Meditade is definitely a minor part in SAM's TP gain. At best it is like 2 min 30 recast, what does this mean when it takes you 8 seconds to get 100 TP ??? It's funny that you are now mentionning that "you don't always have double march" because it's a neccessity to make any mythic AM3 worthwhile. So now when things go wrong with your arguments you try anything to counter it. I'm standing on my point that 2xmarch-hasso-6hit SAM takes roughly 8 sec to build 100 TP while monk takes 10. But maybe you'll find argument for getting TP faster than 8 seconds lol, who knows.

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhm7-...eature=related That dumb blonde is basically you, because you're retarded. Just done talking to you lol. You even think pld sucks.

Quickly running out of arguments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

6.18x100/60 = 10.3 seconds for one weapon skill
while on 450 delay-6 hits SAMs it's close to
5*100/60=8.33 seconds

---

LOL! 6hit 450delay sam?
you count average rate for a mnk VS a sam not getting TP from zanshin hits, and a fail build?

using your "hasted delay aproximation" but a 5hit (still not bothering with zanshin procs)
4*100/60=6.66...

what exactly are you trying to prove? The mythic GK has 450 delay not 437. and the general concensus is that 6 hit > 5 hit due to over TP I thought. Give me your zanshin rate, your double attack/triple/quadruple rate and I'll give you your average hits till 100 TP (hint: not 4*100/600), its a complicated formula...

K so. http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets?id=244987 thats my tp set for a 5 hit til I get my hands on that new gear. 90 masa. And this http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets?id=124818 is my ws set. Put in tp bonus instead of my centauri, as I am almost done with WOTG. I have mnk and sam both 90 empies, I can guarentee you sam gets tp faster, both /war.

Oh and I forgot to change hands to brego.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monchat

what exactly are you trying to prove? The mythic GK has 450 delay not 437. and the general concensus is that 6 hit > 5 hit due to over TP I thought. Give me your zanshin rate, your double attack/triple/quadruple rate and I'll give you your average hits till 100 TP (hint: not 4*100/600), its a complicated formula...

---

Keep forgetting that. And with 450 delay, i can drop off some store tp for more attack/double attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monchat

what exactly are you trying to prove? The mythic GK has 450 delay not 437. and the general concensus is that 6 hit > 5 hit due to over TP I thought. Give me your zanshin rate, your double attack/triple/quadruple rate and I'll give you your average hits till 100 TP (hint: not 4*100/600), its a complicated formula...

---

Well, the General consensus on 6hit > 5hit was due to what gear needed to be sacrificed in order to obtain a 5-hit, But I believe that was around the 90 Cap, Now theres a bit more Store TP Gear available, and its a little easier to 5-hit.

It was never because of TP Over flow. No ones going to pass on something because it might make them "too powerful". TP Overflow doesn't hurt anything, and since most SAM WS's damage varies with TP, it actually helps them in a good way, even if by a small amount.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Well, the General consensus on 6hit > 5hit was due to what gear needed to be sacrificed in order to obtain a 5-hit, But I believe that was around the 90 Cap, Now theres a bit more Store TP Gear available, and its a little easier to 5-hit.

It was never because of TP Over flow. No ones going to pass on something because it might make them "too powerful". TP Overflow doesn't hurt anything, and since most SAM WS's damage varies with TP, it actually helps them in a good way, even if by a small amount.

---

Yes very true. And new samurai sets in the near future will have a 26% 5 hit :D If we ever get our hands on neo nyzle gear. Atm, samurai's should have 24% atleast and a 5 hit, or your doing it wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

since most SAM WS's damage varies with TP, it actually helps them in a good way, even if by a small amount.

---

Ws with damage varies with TP are tiered @ 100/200/300 so tp ing at 100 or 120 doesn't change shit and if it did it would be pointless. Th epoint of mdk is that it's not enough to claim that 5 hit > 6 hit. There are way too many factors implied in the comparison. 5 hit leads to gimp WS, slower TP build, and in general 5 hit or 6 build don't mean anything because of the many multiattack gear & zanshin than can happen. What matters is computing the exact #rounds per ws on average, accounting for accuracy, DA/TA/QA, or even OAT, and in the case of SAM znashin (with 2 different consideration from hasso zanshin and normal zanshin). But I don't expect much from him seeing as he already explained that hasso+zanshin procs 25% of the time. One consideration that complicates the computation is that some multuattack are checked first and some last. Also I'm sure motenten spreadsheet does it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Yes very true. And new samurai sets in the near future will have a 26% 5 hit :D If we ever get our hands on neo nyzle gear. Atm, samurai's should have 24% atleast and a 5 hit, or your doing it wrong.

---

Can you math out how much stronger your 5 hit is over you 6 hit or is this just another random claim ? When I did math out 5 hit vs 6 hit back in the days where BG could do math, the difference between 5 hits and 6 hits builds was generally a few % only. Most likely the greatest stat you are sacrificing is attack, which obviously is the main concern for a WS, even at 100% mod. Noone cares about haste anymore because anyone can cap haste it's just a matter of what you are giving up. Finally there this little thing that you systematically avoid in the discussion, aka TP overflow, which is all the mor important than x-build is low. So it's not exagerated to say that a myythic 5-hit is never 2 rounds exactly making the 5 build sacrifices useless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monchat

what exactly are you trying to prove? The mythic GK has 450 delay not 437. and the general concensus is that 6 hit > 5 hit due to over TP I thought

---

if you use mythic GK 6hit, you dont have 1hit/per round

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monchat

Give me your zanshin rate, your double attack/triple/quadruple rate and I'll give you your average hits till 100 TP (hint: not 4*100/600), its a complicated formula...

---

agree on this but why didn't you reply to pchan using 5*100/60 for sam WS speed?

pcahn use number coming from nowhere to show that mnk doesnt TP way slower than sam, i took his number and just changed 6hit to 5hit. if he would have used some calculated round/WS instead of a lol 5 i wouldn't have said anything

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

I can guarentee you sam gets tp faster, both /war.

---

Your point ? You said much faster stop trying to save face. Doing math right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hiko

agree on this but why didn't you reply to pchan using 5*100/60 for sam WS speed?

pcahn use number coming from nowhere to show that mnk doesnt TP way slower than sam, i took his number and just changed 6hit to 5hit. if he would have used some calculated round/WS instead of a lol 5 i wouldn't have said anything

---

You probably missed the "approximate part". The numbers I gave for monk are not pulled out of my ass, they are the exact ones... Just the SAM one is slightly above reality (or under reality with tp overflow).