Who ever got six-person parties in the first place?

We'll call them leech, you can call them w/e the fk you want to call them.

I don't see how hard of a concept that is to understand. We're not saying everyone has to call them leeches. That's what we call them. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Eh, I don't know, its just an exaggerated use of the term in order to make another group of people sound worse than they really are. I mean by the definition of the word, most sales people, politicians, and religious leaders are whores, but calling them that makes for a really confusing conversation, especially when it involves all three at once. Not that I don't do it anyways from time to time just to amuse myself. :P

Lets just call them what they are. Bad players.

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They're that, too. I just think you're taking the term too seriously. Leeching isn't a bad thing. By default, all bad players are also leeches.

Whore has negative connotations too. But hey, prostitution is the world's oldest profession! There's nothing wrong with a few whores here and there.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

We'll call them leech, you can call them w/e the fk you want to call them.

I don't see how hard of a concept that is to understand. We're not saying everyone has to call them leeches. That's what we call them. Deal with it.

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Dude, we're having a normal conversation about game terms. Nobody else is getting upset about them. It's really out of boredom I assure you. Nothing to get all angry about.

Well anyone who had any issues finding a camp would just go do MMM runs if they were smart at all since MMM usually wielded higher exp per hr than a standard pt if everyone knew what they were doing. Plus if they knew what they were doing all jobs had something to contribute. I have been in bird pts where a pup was main heal and we had 0 deaths and 0 downtime. It was the ppl who had bias against certain jobs that made them hard to find pts with.

Also learning your job had other bonuses, such as ppl who you got a group with actively seeking you out for pts because you knew your job, were well geared and didnt complain the whole time or talk smack. I had so many issues with thf post 40 until I got 1 pt. After that I shot up to 75 simply because I had 5 ppl who were so impressed they sought me out to pull/sata for them. Same with brd, rdm and sch.

In retrospect it really wasnt all that hard, just took a little longer to get to 75, plus u made some good buds along the way ^^

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Originally Posted by Elphy

Well anyone who had any issues finding a camp would just go do MMM runs if they were smart at all since MMM usually wielded higher exp per hr than a standard pt if everyone knew what they were doing. Plus if they knew what they were doing all jobs had something to contribute. I have been in bird pts where a pup was main heal and we had 0 deaths and 0 downtime. It was the ppl who had bias against certain jobs that made them hard to find pts with.

Also learning your job had other bonuses, such as ppl who you got a group with actively seeking you out for pts because you knew your job, were well geared and didnt complain the whole time or talk smack. I had so many issues with thf post 40 until I got 1 pt. After that I shot up to 75 simply because I had 5 ppl who were so impressed they sought me out to pull/sata for them. Same with brd, rdm and sch.

In retrospect it really wasnt all that hard, just took a little longer to get to 75, plus u made some good buds along the way ^^

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Yeah because MMM was out for so long in the time of the crowded camps it. there was 3 good merit camps that could handle 6 parties max. Then you had the bay which no one wanted to go to and loltrolls both slower exp. MM came lat and wasn't out that long till abyssea made it go away.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

I wouldn't use the letting people die, I do that all the time with people that refuse to listen when I tell them not run to far off to solo their own mobs. I also do it to wars that think they can FC when we are not doing a FC and im the only healer or the only whm.

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So you admit to being a crap healer then. And not so much that you let them die, but because you somehow can't heal them because you're the only healer (hint: all it takes to cleave is a WAR + WHM, and that's with 20+ mobs, not the 3-4 the gimpshit perle WAR managed to hit in your exp ally)

Obviously a lot of people did get 6-man parties because there were thousands of level 75 players long before Abyssea made alliance parties the norm and Grounds/Fields of Valor made low manning EP mobs tenable. It was frustrating to wait a long time, get a crummy party, or get invited to a party as a replacement just to see the party disband two fights later. It was inferior, but it happened.

Though when you got a great party, where the level range was tight and kills were fast, that really was a little slice of heaven.

Nowadays I'm finding my least favorite type of party is Dominion Ops. You end up running back to the Dominion Sergeant every 60-90 seconds for that bonus XP instead of killing. Altepa is the worst because of the distance between where the mobs are and the Sergeant. Plus you're usually not the only alliance there so there's competition for mobs. It's a mess. I haven't done any firm documentation to prove this, but I'm pretty sure that a party without Dominion Ops is faster. I know that XPing on raptors or bugards in Misareaux was giving faster XP, as nobody ran back to restart a Dominion Op, they just ran around killing whatever popped, and I'd get another 660 XP every 10-15 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

Obviously a lot of people did get 6-man parties because there were thousands of level 75 players long before Abyssea made alliance parties the norm and Grounds/Fields of Valor made low manning EP mobs tenable. It was frustrating to wait a long time, get a crummy party, or get invited to a party as a replacement just to see the party disband two fights later. It was inferior, but it happened.

Though when you got a great party, where the level range was tight and kills were fast, that really was a little slice of heaven.

Nowadays I'm finding my least favorite type of party is Dominion Ops. You end up running back to the Dominion Sergeant every 60-90 seconds for that bonus XP instead of killing. Altepa is the worst because of the distance between where the mobs are and the Sergeant. Plus you're usually not the only alliance there so there's competition for mobs. It's a mess. I haven't done any firm documentation to prove this, but I'm pretty sure that a party without Dominion Ops is faster. I know that XPing on raptors or bugards in Misareaux was giving faster XP, as nobody ran back to restart a Dominion Op, they just ran around killing whatever popped, and I'd get another 660 XP every 10-15 seconds.

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I'm pretty sure that the only reason for dominion ops is if you are leeching, and can really only have 5-6 people killing stuff. previous to the merit cap, it may have been faster for people to merit that way, because the people meriting were constantly leaving and resetting their xp, and the book gave capped xp regardless of lights. The longer you stay in a zone, the less the book works in your favor though.

At any rate, those books suck, and unless they make them auto refresh like GOV, I probably won't do them anymore.

So don't run back and forth to get new OPs. A good alliance will get exp faster just mass killing mobs without all the running.

Edit: Though try telling that to all the people/leeches/whatever still running around in perle/teal/aurore at 99. You'll probably get some argument about evil botting elitists that steal mobs, or how the only way to kill that fast or lowman stuff is with a brew.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

So don't run back and forth to get new OPs. A good alliance will get exp faster just mass killing mobs without all the running.

Edit: Though try telling that to all the people/leeches/whatever still running around in perle/teal/aurore at 99. You'll probably get some argument about evil botting elitists that steal mobs, or how the only way to kill that fast or lowman stuff is with a brew.

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Except in Heroes zones, most parties want the 'free' EXP or will come up with bullshit reasons to keep checking in to the NPC like 'seals' or 'I need dominion points'. Bluffalo is the biggest offender granted if you aren't down in the spawns you're wasting time on one person bringing in mobs to camp. Good when you're AFK, shitty when you're playing.

I loathe EXP but EXP where morons are waiting on one guy to pull Dolls is usually when I just walk into Bombs and HP. Scars EXP can be fun too - like wiping to Varney completely.

If the op NPC is literally right next to the mobs you're killing, it's worthwhile to do the ops. Some of the camps i've seen, including grauberg crabs and dolls in altepa, the NPC is too far from the mobs for it to be helpful. with bluffaloes and raptors in ulegurand and bugards in grauberg, it's easy to do pages without slowing down the fighting.

But an auto-restart function like other ops would make it so it doesnt matter where the NPC is.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

So you admit to being a crap healer then. And not so much that you let them die, but because you somehow can't heal them because you're the only healer (hint: all it takes to cleave is a WAR + WHM, and that's with 20+ mobs, not the 3-4 the gimpshit perle WAR managed to hit in your exp ally)

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No I refuse to heal them when we are NOT doing a fell cleve and other people others are fighting mobs too. So I let them die since thats not what we put the party together for. If I wanted my party to be a FC it would be one from the start.

Another thing is when 2 or 3 of them get the idea they want to do it to and round up their own groups.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If the op NPC is literally right next to the mobs you're killing, it's worthwhile to do the ops. Some of the camps i've seen, including grauberg crabs and dolls in altepa, the NPC is too far from the mobs for it to be helpful. with bluffaloes and raptors in ulegurand and bugards in grauberg, it's easy to do pages without slowing down the fighting.

But an auto-restart function like other ops would make it so it doesnt matter where the NPC is.

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Doing pages on Bluffaloes severely inhibits your EXP gain unless your party lacks even 1 good member or somehow doesn't have a 99 in it. The Ops no longer reach 5-star because mobs can't check VT any more with a 99 in the party. Even when they could, it was still a waste. Buffalos in particular are far too spread out to be worthwhile for exp at all - people just like "Big Number Syndrome" chunks of EXP even if it's lower overall.

Scars areas are far superior for exp across the board.

idk about the VT being a set cap...maybe only certain mobs in certain zones. I pulled a couple IT dhalmels in Aby Altep at 99 DRG when I was finishing off that job. Not a good camp for burning pages because of the run to the NPC... but it is possible to get IT at 99 in some spots.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

I loathe EXP but EXP where morons are waiting on one guy to pull Dolls is usually when I just walk into Bombs and HP. Scars EXP can be fun too - like wiping to Varney completely.

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I hadn't done an actual abyssea xp alliance since level 80 (leveled my four 85+ jobs with ls empyrean farming and just soloing) and I joined one a week or so ago because I wanted ruinator unlocked (and 5/5) so I could see if it was as bad as I feared. I was absolutely dumbfounded at how people just refused to pull (or open gold chests lol), even when they were on thf, dnc, and nin. It was plain stupid. I was sniping and pulling mobs on blm just so I could get the damn pages done. The experience was annoying enough that I'd rather just dual box or just get xp where I could with the ls.

Gimp DDs i can deal with; ppl who refuse to pull when they're on jobs that can pull I just can't.

Not really disputing anything, just sharing my experience leveling the last couple weeks.

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

I hadn't done an actual abyssea xp alliance since level 80 (leveled my four 85+ jobs with ls empyrean farming and just soloing) and I joined one a week or so ago because I wanted ruinator unlocked (and 5/5) so I could see if it was as bad as I feared. I was absolutely dumbfounded at how people just refused to pull (or open gold chests lol), even when they were on thf, dnc, and nin. It was plain stupid. I was sniping and pulling mobs on blm just so I could get the damn pages done. The experience was annoying enough that I'd rather just dual box or just get xp where I could with the ls.

Gimp DDs i can deal with; ppl who refuse to pull when they're on jobs that can pull I just can't.

Not really disputing anything, just sharing my experience leveling the last couple weeks.

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Jobs that can pull? I grabbed stuff at lv 40 while leeching for some groups for various reasons when the rest of the group was too stupid to realize grabbing a monster isnt hard. I see you're pld as one of your jobs atm. You're actually a better puller for some for the camps that magic aggro since you can just run through a swath of them with magic being cast provided there isn't another alliance camping you to steal your pulls.

Tbh if anyone should be a designated puller in the group it should be whatever DD sucks ass at being a DD so that they can actually pull their weight for once. Job has almost nothing to do with it when the damage dealth varies so much between players. If that nin or thf or dnc was dealing 30~50% of alliance damage should they really be sent off grabbing mobs instead of the gimp war that doesnt wear proper atma doing 5%? That's the TLDR point.

To anyone who thinks Abyssea brought upon a wave of gimps,

Good ole days of the 6man party

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...b4aed145c7.jpg

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Originally Posted by Khajit

Jobs that can pull? I grabbed stuff at lv 40 while leeching for some groups for various reasons when the rest of the group was too stupid to realize grabbing a monster isnt hard. I see you're pld as one of your jobs atm. You're actually a better puller for some for the camps that magic aggro since you can just run through a swath of them with magic being cast provided there isn't another alliance camping you to steal your pulls.

Tbh if anyone should be a designated puller in the group it should be whatever DD sucks ass at being a DD so that they can actually pull their weight for once. Job has almost nothing to do with it when the damage dealth varies so much between players. If that nin or thf or dnc was dealing 30~50% of alliance damage should they really be sent off grabbing mobs instead of the gimp war that doesnt wear proper atma doing 5%? That's the TLDR point.

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My post explicitly says I was on blm. And I was complaining no one would pull. You quoted what I said but it's pretty obvious you didn't read it.

I think the moral of the story is that people shoul dbe pulling based on how well it helps the group, not what job they are on. Anyone can pull. SHitty DDs should do it. Not certain jobs.

EDIT: For the record, the whole idea of pulling is outdated, and probably bad in those parties anyways.

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

My post explicitly says I was on blm. And I was complaining no one would pull. You quoted what I said but it's pretty obvious you didn't read it.

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Stoneskin, manawall. pdt gear like your easily buyable earth staff and etc.Sandstorm+ dessert boots. all jobs chakram if you don't feel like using magic. Congratulations you're geared for pulling. Pulling isn't hard. Yes noone was pulling but you're clearly missing the point of my statement. I was simply pointing oiut that job has nothing to do with it. Your ideal of x job should be puller just makes people find X job tedious because they have to stop doing the fun part of their job and if the rest of the alliance is leeching on the DD then at the point where the nin thf dnc etc etc has to pull for them as well they might as well DB and solo the exp in order to keep the extra pops/gil items to npc from chests. If you're complaining that noone was pulling in your alliance then that includes YOU.
And really why are you complaining about that instead of all the brds that don't pull? They're the one job that has enough free time to not be inconvenienced when it comes to performing their duties when pulling. nightingale/troube + SV and/or maracto and they have enough time to pull several waves before finding an isl and starting all over again.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

@#$%ing lol'd. Have you ever fought a colibri before? Nothing says NUKE ME! like the ability to reflect spells with high MDB. Sounds like excellent use of a party slot.

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Dispel, do you have it?

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Originally Posted by Olor

Dispel, do you have it?

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You're kidding, right?

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Originally Posted by Khajit

Stoneskin, manawall. pdt gear like your easily buyable earth staff and etc.Sandstorm+ dessert boots. all jobs chakram if you don't feel like using magic. Congratulations you're geared for pulling. Pulling isn't hard. Yes noone was pulling but you're clearly missing the point of my statement. I was simply pointing oiut that job has nothing to do with it. Your ideal of x job should be puller just makes people find X job tedious because they have to stop doing the fun part of their job and if the rest of the alliance is leeching on the DD then at the point where the nin thf dnc etc etc has to pull for them as well they might as well DB and solo the exp in order to keep the extra pops/gil items to npc from chests. If you're complaining that noone was pulling in your alliance then that includes YOU.
And really why are you complaining about that instead of all the brds that don't pull? They're the one job that has enough free time to not be inconvenienced when it comes to performing their duties when pulling. nightingale/troube + SV and/or maracto and they have enough time to pull several waves before finding an isl and starting all over again.

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Dude, I don't know what you're on but you obviously missed the point of what I was saying ....not only did I specifically say I was on blm, I specifically stated I was sniping and pulling mobs. My point was no one else was...even though they were on jobs that were much more suited for pulling. You wouldn't find that slightly annoying?

Frank, I agree that everyone should be contributing with pulls if they can, my recent experience showed me that this wasn't the case. I can get decent xp on my own time without all the aggravation.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Dispel, do you have it?

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You started the game after Colibri were old news, but they don't cast Reflect on themselves. They natively return any spell cast on them insta-cast. If you sleep them, they'll cast sleep on you when they wake up. If you nuke them, they'll nuke you back a whole lot stronger (assuming you're exping on them and are thus lower level than them), etc.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You started the game after Colibri were old news, but they don't cast Reflect on themselves. They natively return any spell cast on them insta-cast. If you sleep them, they'll cast sleep on you when they wake up. If you nuke them, they'll nuke you back a whole lot stronger (assuming you're exping on them and are thus lower level than them), etc.

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Oh thanks. I started the game before colibri were old news (first time before US PS2 release - got to level 25 blm before I had to quit because my roomie, whose comp I was using, moved - second time just before WotG release) but I never got to them the second time around, since I basically soloed casually for 6 months and never got to 50... ah, the bad old days...

So thanks... never knew anything about the pink birds - heard blm were bad but I thought it was a tp move they did that put up reflect. Thanks for the info.

/blush

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Originally Posted by Olor

Oh thanks. I started the game before colibri were old news (first time before US PS2 release - got to level 25 blm before I had to quit because my roomie, whose comp I was using, moved - second time just before WotG release) but I never got to them the second time around, since I basically soloed casually for 6 months and never got to 50... ah, the bad old days...

So thanks... never knew anything about the pink birds - heard blm were bad but I thought it was a tp move they did that put up reflect. Thanks for the info.

/blush

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Nah, they will eat you if you nuke them. I did see a group of RMT BLMS doing a really crappy job of mass pulling and AGA'ing them once. They seemed to be able to do it somewhat. I sat and watched them wipe a few times.

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

Dude, I don't know what you're on but you obviously missed the point of what I was saying ....not only did I specifically say I was on blm, I specifically stated I was sniping and pulling mobs. My point was no one else was...even though they were on jobs that were much more suited for pulling. You wouldn't find that slightly annoying?

Frank, I agree that everyone should be contributing with pulls if they can, my recent experience showed me that this wasn't the case. I can get decent xp on my own time without all the aggravation.

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And you're missing the point that the jobs aren't specifically suited for pulling more than any other job. Inside abyssea you've cruor buffs and unlimited mp on the whm making it near impossible to die, movement speed available for all/most jobs relatively easily, an atma that buffs movement speed if you don't have it from gear,all jobs throwing weapons, and so on. When lv 40+ jobs subbing blm for warp are capable of pulling your attempt to decree any job as the ideal puller to the point that they HAVE to be the puller more than anyone else including yourself really hits a wall in it's logic train.