More nerfs for War & Ukkos.

This sucks

For the record: Anyone that's like "THESE WS BEEN AROUND FOR A YEAR WITHOUT NERFS WHY NOW?!" well until recently, we didn't have legitimate high-level content to use them on. Abyssea doesn't count. The crit RATE modifiers on the WS are 99% irrelevant inside Abyssea.

I think it's peoples' screenshots demonstrating 4k+ Smites and Furies on the Jeuno & Outlands T3 VNMs at lvl 95 that got SE's attention and showed that the WS are simply overpowered. I've never seen a Kaggen or Pil go down as fast as when we had 3+ 90Ukon WARs smashing them, and the groups I generally run with don't even normally allow non-relic/mythic/emp DDs.

If you really don't think Ukko's is unreasonably overpowered, you have a worse grasp of game balance than SE does.

THF says hi, we get to do nothing except treasure hunter, but okay, have fun with your high numbers, we'll pull off a cool SC whenever we can get bully up.

if the mob's still alive by then.

but hey, if we do, the whole party gets pissed.

being a THF is fun, ain't it?

That would make sense if SE hadn't created these WSs. They knew the beast they were setting loose when they plugged in the variables for the WS. It's not like they just type in numbers and go "lets see what this does lol" no matter how much it seems like that's the case sometimes.

Adventurers seeking to reach the absolute pinnacle of power better watch out because we'll be balancing the #$%& out of everything to make sure it feels like next to nothing has changed. PUPDATE FTW!!!!!!! New abilities at 99? nope. New weaponskills at 99? Sure but they'll be equal or suck worse than previous ones. New gear for everyone? Naaaaaaah with our wildly random, droprates and loot tables you can repeat the same fights over and over ad infinitum because someone in your group is bound to be screwed out of the piece they want.

Seriously what the heck is wrong with SE? All people really wanted was a slightly more challenging experience than Abyssea. Now they just seem to be going back to their same terrible practices. When was the last time we had so many nerfs? They could have easily just improved the new weaponskills that came out to compete with War and Mnk, but no they have to weaken classes. This with the advent of a new level cap supposedly raising everyone's power, are you kidding me?? It's the most backwards way of doing things I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Shotaro1

I still wanna know, finish my Ukkon? Or move on to my Cor's Armageddon? Is it still worth getting? I know we havent seen any tests, and this is all just on paper. But I dont wanna keep busting my ass dual boxing for this weapon, when the WS turns out to be the same dmg as Ragin Rush or something lol

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Not sure why you're asking, seeing how we don't know the extent of the nerf yet. It's not even on the test servers yet. It's possible they'll completely gimp the WS. It's also possible it won't be noticeable at all. We don't know yet.

My bet is that Ukko's will still be great, just not as great. But anything on this is pure speculation.

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Originally Posted by Tagrineth

For the record: Anyone that's like "THESE WS BEEN AROUND FOR A YEAR WITHOUT NERFS WHY NOW?!" well until recently, we didn't have legitimate high-level content to use them on. Abyssea doesn't count. The crit RATE modifiers on the WS are 99% irrelevant inside Abyssea.

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They're not. Not because the damage output actually matters, but because it shows how much Ukko's is better than other WS. If they see Ukko's Fury doing 3~4 times the damage of a normal WS inside Abyssea, they can reasonable assume that it'll do at least twice the damage of other WS outside too. Also, even if it was just about VW, it's also been out for over half a year already, which is more than enough time to realize it. You just seem to be looking for reasons for why they would do this. No one disagrees that Ukko's was overpowered, it doesn't change the fact that this is a completely dick move.

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Originally Posted by Modoru

[..] being a THF is fun, ain't it?

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Your point being... nothing, I guess? Wrong thread?

Obtain level 99, deal less damage than 90. Grats MNK and WAR. How can they seriously announce things like this, and even add a silly little picture to go along with it? Do they seriously think adding that picture is going to inspire anything but rage among anyone who owns an Ukon or Verethragna?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Not sure why you're asking, seeing how we don't know the extent of the nerf yet. It's not even on the test servers yet. It's possible they'll completely gimp the WS. It's also possible it won't be noticeable at all. We don't know yet.

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Wait a fucking minute... You mean to tell me that all this bitching, all the fucking crying and moaning swirling around warriors now is about a nerf that NO ONE HAS TESTED!?!?! NO ONE EVEN KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY WILL BE EFFECTED??? Man, you guys... you don't need to be hit with the nerf hammer, you need to be mashed to a pulp and then bent over for being babies about nothing.

Just because your AF3 looks like a tiara doesn't mean you guys should act like princesses. Toughen up pussies.

If they are going to nerf something - nerf Shoha... WAR is a brute. Meant to be the heavy 2-h DD. SAM is skilled in 2h katana arts - meant to be able to build devastating combo's..

Instead they are taking away what they do best and that is damage. SAM has their own way to deal it and that is pump out 30% more weapon skills then any other job. Of course their hits arent meant to be as hard.

I feel sorry for the Masa SAM's on the most recent update however.. Now anyone can pick up a TP Bonus katana that can be built in an EXP party, merit shoha and deal the same if not more damage then someone who grinds it out for a legendary weapon.

If they are nerfing Ukko's & Blood rage, they need to nerf Shoha also.

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Originally Posted by Brolic

how are the jp's reacting to this?

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Not well.. camping Ratatoskr with 2x JP WAR's and they arent happy.

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Originally Posted by Orson

Adventurers seeking to reach the absolute pinnacle of power better watch out because we'll be balancing the #$%& out of everything to make sure it feels like next to nothing has changed. PUPDATE FTW!!!!!!! New abilities at 99? nope. New weaponskills at 99? Sure but they'll be equal or suck worse than previous ones. New gear for everyone? Naaaaaaah with our wildly random, droprates and loot tables you can repeat the same fights over and over ad infinitum because someone in your group is bound to be screwed out of the piece they want.

Seriously what the heck is wrong with SE? All people really wanted was a slightly more challenging experience than Abyssea. Now they just seem to be going back to their same terrible practices. When was the last time we had so many nerfs? They could have easily just improved the new weaponskills that came out to compete with War and Mnk, but no they have to weaken classes. This with the advent of a new level cap supposedly raising everyone's power, are you kidding me?? It's the most backwards way of doing things I've ever seen.

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You can shut the hell up Orson you were one of the idiots who were laughing at relics holders when the 85 empyreans came out, pay back is a bitch isn't it.

I just did some testing of Ukko's Fury pre and post nerf.

Pre~100% | Pre 300%
Min 831 | Min 1663
Max 3277 | Max 3306
Avg 1973.3 | Avg 2789.2

Post~100% | Post 300%
Min 1374 | Min 1670
Max 2687 | Max 3223
Avg 1780.2 | Avg 2356

~9.8% dmg drop at ~100% TP
~15.5% dmg drop at 300% TP

This test was done on Lesser Colibri, wearing full Empyrean+2, Goading Belt, Heed Ring, Rajas Ring, lvl90 Ukonvasara, Pole Grip, Atheling Mantle, Brutal Earring, Ravager's Earring, Ravager's Orb, Agasaya's Collar. No /ja were used.

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Originally Posted by Linku

I just did some testing of Ukko's Fury pre and post nerf.

Pre~100% | Pre 300%
Min 831 | Min 1663
Max 3277 | Max 3306
Avg 1973.3 | Avg 2789.2

Post~100% | Post 300%
Min 1374 | Min 1670
Max 2687 | Max 3223
Avg 1780.2 | Avg 2356

~9.8% dmg drop at ~100% TP
~15.5% dmg drop at 300% TP

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Sample size?

Dam this nerf, now other jobs will be able to take part in events, not just mnks and wars!

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I honestly doubt he can.

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?sigh you were right.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

You can shut the hell up Orson you were one of the idiots who were laughing at relics holders when the 85 empyreans came out, pay back is a bitch isn't it.

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I feel like some one is really sad in their pants about something, and never learned how to properly express themselves. It's ok, babies scream nonsense because they don't know the words too.

On a related note: I doubt this nerf will be as bad as people are making it out to be. However, I don't think they should be nerfing anything when they still haven't given most jobs any of the boosts and or tweaks that they have been promising for like a year now. Nerfing for balance = fail.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

No one disagrees that Ukko's was overpowered, it doesn't change the fact that this is a completely dick move.

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Uh, if it was overpowered, then it almost necessarily follows that nerfing it is not a dick move.

Unless you're suggesting SE is nerfing VSmite and Ukko's out of spite, which is literally medically-actionable paranoia.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

You can shut the hell up Orson you were one of the idiots who were laughing at relics holders when the 85 empyreans came out, pay back is a bitch isn't it.

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This made my morning lol.

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Originally Posted by Scribble

Wait a fucking minute... You mean to tell me that all this bitching, all the fucking crying and moaning swirling around warriors now is about a nerf that NO ONE HAS TESTED!?!?! NO ONE EVEN KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY WILL BE EFFECTED???

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You seem to be bitching more than all the WARs in here combined. Also, the degree of the nerf doesn't matter at all for what people are complaining about. Even if they only lowered the critical hit rate by 5% it would still be a reason to complain, because it's not what people paid time and money for. They paid for the weapon we have right now, not a worse version of it. What if someone had to decide between which empyrean weapon to take to 95, and while other weapons weren't as good they would have preferred them. However, in the end they were swayed to go with Ukonvasara, because it was just good enough to overshadow the importance other weapon. Now SE go and nerf it, and whoever spent 200M gil on it basically just got an anal probe. Whether they lower the critical hit rate by 5% or 30%, it doesn't matter. That person got screwed for their decision, even though it was made completely rationally and to the best of their knowledge.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Uh, if it was overpowered, then it almost necessarily follows that nerfing it is not a dick move.

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Selective reading much? I said like three times that it's the timing that bothers people, not the nerfing itself. If they realized it was a mistake (which should have taken them 10 weapon skills to figure out) and nerfed it, it would have been understandable. Leaving it like this for over a year, making people invest months and hundred millions of gil in this weapon, not a weaker version of the weapon, and then nerfing it - dick move. That's the difference. I'm not saying they're doing it deliberately to piss people off, but by doing this they clearly show no respect for people who invested major parts of their free time this last year into this achievement.

I agree they delayed longer than they should have, but this is not a reason to never nerf it, ever. My heart bleeds for those intrepid unfortunates who braved the monumental task of killing Glavoid a bunch of times, but there it is. If you agree that Ukko's is too powerful (if indeed you agree with this, which you should, because it is), when could we have scheduled the nerf to come down so that it wouldn't be so offensive to your delicate sensibilities?

The best weapon in the game has been nerfed to....still be the best weapon in the game.

Also, serious megalolz at people wringing their hands over OMG ALL MY HARD WORK after a year of sounding the drum about how anybody can get an 85 empyrean in less than a week.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

[..] when could we have scheduled the nerf to come down so that it wouldn't be so offensive to your delicate sensibilities?

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Anytime before they added the 95 trial. Who cares about Glavoid? And even that takes some people weeks to finish, because they casually do it with a friend or two hunting NMs a few times a week, not farming KIs with an entire alliance to get it done in three days. But the real cock punch was doing that after they released a ridiculous trial knowing that people will spend massive amounts of money on it (and even if they didn't know before, they would after seeing for themselves).

Call it whatever you want, the amount hardly matters anyway. What matters is that people will feel betrayed by this. Why should they ever wanna invest in anything, knowing SE may gimp it at a whim? Was it a mistake of them to invest in it? You may say yes, but think about it... if this really was the best weapon, wouldn't that precisely be the reason why you'd invest in it? Or should we always wait a year to see if SE won't nerf it first, just to be safe?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

You seem to be bitching more than all the WARs in here combined. Also, the degree of the nerf doesn't matter at all for what people are complaining about. Even if they only lowered the critical hit rate by 5% it would still be a reason to complain, because it's not what people paid time and money for. They paid for the weapon we have right now, not a worse version of it. What if someone had to decide between which empyrean weapon to take to 95, and while other weapons weren't as good they would have preferred them. However, in the end they were swayed to go with Ukonvasara, because it was just good enough to overshadow the importance other weapon. Now SE go and nerf it, and whoever spent 200M gil on it basically just got an anal probe. Whether they lower the critical hit rate by 5% or 30%, it doesn't matter. That person got screwed for their decision, even though it was made completely rationally and to the best of their knowledge.

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You spent time for a great weapon and Ukon is still a great weapon. The relatively miniscule time investment to get said weapon to a point where it's above all other options is so small that it magnifies the amount of tears being shed here. You'd have a point if it took more than a week, and that's pacing yourself, to actually acquire it. You'd have a point if it were nerfed below any of the other GA currently available.

If you paid for a Ukon(pre 90) then you were doinitwrong. Unless you actually have a 95 Ukon then the investment in plates doesn't apply to the argument. The level 90 version is still atop the rest of your options iirc. Even at level 90, pre-nerf this weapon was overpowered and at worst will make the playing field level again. Problem? Solved.

I have nothing against warriors in general, but I can't subscribe to feeling bad for them because their greatest weapon, which remains their greatest weapon post-nerf, is now omgawesome instead of wtfoverpowered.

Edit: There are many people spending their precious time and money for weapons that don't provide as much benefit to their damage dealing capabilities as a nerfed Ukon will for a warrior...

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Dam this nerf, now other jobs will be able to take part in events, not just mnks and wars!

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No? This nerf isn't going to make other DD anymore popular than they already are, I'm sorry. We'll just all do less damage now with this combined with the BR nerf.

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Originally Posted by Scribble

You spent time for a great weapon and Ukon is still a great weapon. The relatively miniscule time investment to get said weapon to a point where it's above all other options is so small that it magnifies the amount of tears being shed here. You'd have a point if it took more than a week, and that's pacing yourself, to actually acquire it. You'd have a point if it were nerfed below any of the other GA currently available.

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No, it takes you a week, pacing yourself. It takes most people weeks, playing as they can. Call it "doinitwrong" if you want, it doesn't change the fact that many people invest a whole lot of effort into it. If that effort was ill-spent or not, that's another issue entirely.

I hate this thread. Not because of the legitimacy of the complaint (which there is), but because people post in it for the wrong reasons. Which gives people like you fuel to go against them. Most of what you said is right. Whining about the actual nerf before we know what it is is retarded (as I also pointed out in the 99 trial thread, which is equally useless). But people do have a right to complain about SE punishing them for a decision they made based on the facts that SE presented us with over a year ago, which they're now about to change (namely, the factual strength of the weapon).

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Originally Posted by Scribble

Edit: There are many people spending their precious time and money for weapons that don't provide as much benefit to their damage dealing capabilities as a nerfed Ukon will for a warrior...

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They do so of their own free will though. They know that their effort isn't for the best empyrean weapon and they're ok with it (apparently, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it). This is not about a strength comparison, this is about us being able to trust SE with what they do.

Sadly, this game is a large timesink. And sadly, some decisions will cost a whole lot of that. So before we invest into something, we want to know what it does, we want to know exactly how hard it will be to achieve and what we will gain from it. Otherwise you can expect a shitstorm from the community, as can be witnessed here. SE should have known better.

I wish I could like Arcon's statement more than just once

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Originally Posted by Arcon

No, it takes you a week, pacing yourself. It takes most people weeks, playing as they can. Call it "doinitwrong" if you want, it doesn't change the fact that many people invest a whole lot of effort into it. If that effort was ill-spent or not, that's another issue entirely.

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I have no issue with people putting in effort. If you are paying for people to farm items for you prior to plates then yes, you're doinitwrong because you don't actually put forth that effort(farming aside). You say you're being punished, but you still don't know to what extent or if it ever requires the weight that the word 'punishment' brings.

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This is not about a strength comparison, this is about us being able to trust SE with what they do.

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I disagree. Most people are upset because job x will now be closer to their output. Those who are reserving judgement until the changes are implemented are at least being reasonable about it, but I'd guess that most of those wouldn't be bothered to go beyond 90 Ukon anyway.

BR buffs the entire party, removing the Crit Damage increase from it is actually going to make everyone deal less damage for no real reason.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Anytime before they added the 95 trial. Who cares about Glavoid? And even that takes some people weeks to finish, because they casually do it with a friend or two hunting NMs a few times a week, not farming KIs with an entire alliance to get it done in three days. But the real cock punch was doing that after they released a ridiculous trial knowing that people will spend massive amounts of money on it (and even if they didn't know before, they would after seeing for themselves).

Call it whatever you want, the amount hardly matters anyway. What matters is that people will feel betrayed by this. Why should they ever wanna invest in anything, knowing SE may gimp it at a whim? Was it a mistake of them to invest in it? You may say yes, but think about it... if this really was the best weapon, wouldn't that precisely be the reason why you'd invest in it? Or should we always wait a year to see if SE won't nerf it first, just to be safe?

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Come tell me that after they shit down dark knights throat with that Apocalypse haste nerf cap. SE CAN and WILL blow any melee down to shit like they have dark as long as Sam is on top. Many people spent years to get Apocalypse for just that reason.

Yes it was broken but by your arguments sake it should still be top DD because of the vast amount of time spent which was way more than any Uko. warrior ever dreamed of spending. They took the zerg end game out of the zerg end game job and gave it to every other melee which now have way more potential. I guess cry me a fucking river because dark has dealt with this for a long time now with SE trolling them.

It just amazes me at the same people who spent their time saying dark are emo melee are the same ones blowing up the forums with this emo shit. This isn't even a bad nerf compared to the shit dark has been trolled with. Hell let me have a RR version for scythe(same mods)to use and I would be happy.

This whole thread is like a boiling pooh stew full of crabs in a pot. Every A-hole with a keyboard talking about how glad they are that some other guys hard work got dumped on, when they should be using it to ask SE why they are busy nerfing shit instead of applying the fixes and updates needed / promised for other jobs and content.

http://louispagan.com/wp-content/upl...ket-poster.jpg

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

Come tell me that after they shit down dark knights throat with that Apocalypse haste nerf cap.

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You even whine about other whiners. And you come in here, telling us about how much you whined and how you whined first and how now we come and infringe upon your rights as whiners. Man you DRK are emo. Seriously.

Just for the record, no one said they were happy about any previous nerfs. I really don't know why DRK, RNG and THF come in here and say shit like "We've had it even worse, you don't get to complain!", who the fuck cares? The WAR who complain because now other jobs may be better are stupid. That's not an argument. It's not a race. But you guys who come in here just to gloat about how now WAR sucks (big news: it doesn't) are equally stupid. This about sums it up perfectly:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

http://louispagan.com/wp-content/upl...ket-poster.jpg

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Originally Posted by Arcon

You even whine about other whiners. And you come in here, telling us about how much you whined and how you whined first and how now we come and infringe upon your rights as whiners. Man you DRK are emo. Seriously.

Just for the record, no one said they were happy about any previous nerfs. I really don't know why DRK, RNG and THF come in here and say shit like "We've had it even worse, you don't get to complain!", who the fuck cares? The WAR who complain because now other jobs may be better are stupid. That's not an argument. It's not a race. But you guys who come in here just to gloat about how now WAR sucks (big news: it doesn't) are equally stupid. This about sums it up perfectly:

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You were the moron who started in with the "time used to get X item" argument or being betrayed because SE adjusts a job. I could give a damn less bud I have most all these jobs to use so doesn't make a damn to me. I just find it funny you start this emo fest about someone spending time to do something and being betrayed then in the very next fucking sentence you tell me I'm emo because I give an example that SE nerf'd dark knight with haste nerf while buffing everyone else to godly proportions after people spent their time (even years not weeks) to complete it. You are pretty much a damn bias person to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

You were the moron who started in with the "time used to get X item" argument or being betrayed because SE adjusts a job. I could give a damn less bud I have most all these jobs to use so doesn't make a damn to me. I just find it funny you start this emo fest about someone spending time to do something and being betrayed then in the very next fucking sentence you tell me I'm emo because I give an example that SE nerf'd dark knight with haste nerf while buffing everyone else to godly proportions after people spent their time (even years not weeks) to complete it. You are pretty much a damn bias person to say the least.

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Justifying nerfing other jobs just because some other job got it in the past is lame.

IE.: I used to beat kids up in school, there for it's fine if I beat up more kids, cuz other kids had it just as bad. pretty lame excuse.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

You were the moron who started in with the "time used to get X item" argument or being betrayed because SE adjusts a job. I could give a damn less bud I have most all these jobs to use so doesn't make a damn to me. I just find it funny you start this emo fest about someone spending time to do something and being betrayed then in the very next fucking sentence you tell me I'm emo because I give an example that SE nerf'd dark knight with haste nerf while buffing everyone else to godly proportions after people spent their time (even years not weeks) to complete it. You are pretty much a damn bias person to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Just for the record, no one said they were happy about any previous nerfs.

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That includes me. I call most DRK whiners for a lot of reasons, none of which include the Haste nerf (unless they're being particularly annoying about it). For that matter, I also call a lot of WAR whiners for a lot of reasons (even in this thread), none of which include gimping Ukko's. I called you a whiner because you came in here and bitch about how much worse you've had it and that we shouldn't be complaining. It had nothing at all to do with Apocalypse. As usual, you bitch about nothing. Whiner.

Oh and as a side note: the 20% delay cap affects a lot of jobs, not just DRK. It wasn't an "Apocalypse" nerf, it was a nerf that pulled Apocalypse down with it. Admittedly, that doesn't make it better for people going for Apocalypse, then again, no one said that it did. You just assumed that.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

That includes me. I call most DRK whiners for a lot of reasons, none of which include the Haste nerf (unless they're being particularly annoying about it). For that matter, I also call a lot of WAR whiners for a lot of reasons (even in this thread), none of which include gimping Ukko's. I called you a whiner because you came in here and bitch about how much worse you've had it and that we shouldn't be complaining. It had nothing at all to do with Apocalypse. As usual, you bitch about nothing. Whiner.

Oh and as a side note: the 20% delay cap affects a lot of jobs, not just DRK. It wasn't an "Apocalypse" nerf, it was a nerf that pulled Apocalypse down with it. Admittedly, that doesn't make it better for people who went for Apocalypse, then again, no one said that it did. You just assumed that.

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I had to adjust that because comparing what apocalypse is now to what it was then is not only a farce comparison but it by no means shows a representable presentation of just how broken Apocalypse was during that time when other melee didn't have even close to the power they do now or haste.

My point was that people who went for Apocalypse (this includes me and my first apoc) who spent years to complete it then it being nerfed and everyone else adjusted to the zerg extreme clearly is in line with what you said about people doing weapons for what they were before a nerf. This after you called me emo for mentioning what is clearly a fact of the game and irked me at the time much like this is bothering warriors ,however, this being a much smaller scale of nerf by comparison to that time.

this update made me lol i like it ;)

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Originally Posted by Kriegsgott

this update made me lol i like it ;)

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So you're happy other people get nerfed, because it doesn't affect your relic.

That really is lame.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

So you're happy other people get nerfed, because it doesn't affect your relic.

That really is lame.

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Oh look here you're only crying because you have a ukon yes ? I don't get how thick those blinkers you have on must be to have not been able to see the ws was overpowered i swear you people forget ukon has an amazing aftermath.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

So you're happy other people get nerfed, because it doesn't affect your relic.

That really is lame.

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looks like i'm missing the relic part on my prev post -.-
or you ar a special smart one ?!

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

Oh look here you're only crying because you have a ukon yes ? I don't get how thick those blinkers you have on must be to have not been able to see the ws was overpowered i swear you people forget ukon has an amazing aftermath.

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Yes, it has the same amazing aftermath... as every other Emp Weapon. So instead of asking for buffs/removing penalties so other jobs would be more popular, you're happy someone else is nerfed, which doesn't change anything about other jobs, and just makes it so we all do less damage.

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Originally Posted by Kriegsgott

looks like i'm missing the relic part on my prev post -.-
or you ar a special smart one ?!

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I can't fathom why any monk would be happy VS was getting nerfed unless they weren't using VS in the first place.

tbh i'm not a big abyssea friend this made people lazy and if SE going to fix/balance or just move away from all the easy Abyssea work i'm happy about it
> this has nothing to do with my relic serously....