SE really?! really 99 cap boss this hard?!?!

You can tell the fight isn't very hard because every single exp camp is packed and the majority of the player base has already done it.

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Originally Posted by Evandis

Go do it without your precious MNKs and SMNs, then get back to us.

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Did it with blu/nin, whm/sch pld/war(non relic and no emp weapon or shield) sam/war, rdm/blm. Used 2 items won in 9 mins thats with the whm forgetting to use the ethers I gave her.

Did it a few times yesterday, and it was a bit tough. We walked in not really prepared for the difficulty (eg: wearing standard DD gear without any thought to him tossing an Asuran at us), and he stomped all over us. Second try we were a bit more careful, but didn't understand the damage reduction mechanism, and just didn't do enough damage before people started going squish. Third try I switched to thf (started out as mnk) and we went for a far more defensive mode (eg: constant collab on the other DD, TA the pld, etc). We were doing pretty well, but timed out.

So by today a few people had farmed up the items for the tail. Honestly, it was overkill; I think we would have been perfectly fine without it. Main thing was that we had fresh 2hrs, and a plan for taking advantage of sch enspells (along with the ton of other buffs the sch put up). The initial damage phase was going two to three times as fast as the runs we did the first night, and using the tail actually slowed us down. A couple people died right when he was at 1%, but we finished without any problem.

Did a second run with some others in the LS that couldn't fit into the first fight, and they (I sat that one out) finished without anyone dying at all, though they had someone go rdm/blm to chainspell+stun during tail use.

Yes, it's a tough fight, but if you sit down and think through the mistakes you make, and adjust your strategy accordingly, it gets easier each time. During our winning run the second day, I could hardly believe it was the same fight as the day before, it was so much easier.


Main party setup on my winning run:
Pld (no aegis or ochain, just joyeuse and MDB shield; subbed /war and ate tacos)
Thf (me; no Empyrean, just fire magian + triplus)
Sch (only hit 95 a week or two ago, middling to decent gear)
Whm (doesn't use whm much, and only got back into game a couple months ago, so gear is more old-school)
Sam (has Masamune, but Fudo sucks for this fight; used Rana and Namas (relic bow))
Nin (85 Kannagi, standard decent nin gear; did less damage than he should have because he was using Hi)

(No smn, no bst, no mnk; only used one tail per fight)

Yes, relic bow did make it easier during the tail-running phase, but mostly just for the second run. In the first run, I think she only got a single Namas off because the constant zig-zag kept her from easily targetting the Taru (she didn't use Namas when we were doing straight fighting). Was in no way a critical element.

We did not do a "zerg", though with Embrava on it almost felt like one. A straight-up fight with a bit of hate control and enspells and it's a breeze. For how we did it, pld/thf/whm/sch were the important jobs. The other two slots could have been any DD at all.


@Logandor: I use 4/5 AF3+2 and Homam feet, Rajas/Epona/Brutal/Suppa/Raider Boom/Atheling/Twilight, and Magian+Triplus daggers. My damage the first night was a bit weak, but we were playing cautiously. For the winning fight with Embrava/enspells, I was doing crazy amounts of damage. Just TA+WS on the pld, constant Collab of any other heavy DDs, and be ready to Accomp+Perfect Dodge for Hundred Fists if you don't use a tail.

I'd say thf is one of the more important jobs to bring if you want to do a fight with a more standard setup.

Just throw 4 Paladin and two WHM at it. Safest setup. :D

(No, seriously.)

Bailing, I find that very funny. What else should I have to prove? That A. People are lazy, B. People rather go straight to abyssea and not learn there jobs C. People have 0 Skill when it come to something hard out side of abyssea, and D. Herp Derp therefore Gimpness.

It is kinda silly to have a party BC for a limit break but it's really not that hard. We lost once and won the 2nd time. I do feel sorry for anyone who is on break right now though. Seems like this should have been the quest to unlock the new WSs.

MNKx3
BRDx2
SMN

Soul Voice Marchx2 + Minuetx2
All MNKs Hundred Fists
SMN uses Inferno Howl (~40 dmg Enfire on every strike), then Alexander and /popcorn.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/p...jpg?1296494117

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Originally Posted by Logandor

A friend of mine just informed me he went in on his 95 thf (fully capped in merits/skills) +2 empy gear, empy weapon and twilight dagger. ;.; He got crushed and said for me to not even bother taking my thf in at all because it was a total waste. Now if some one else went in with their thf in decent gear with decent knives and lived to win can you please share your set up. I am still farming the items. I got my one stone but the other stuff is being elusive over here on Carby server at least to this thf.

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Did your friend use an Evasion build? Having 5/5+2 Raider's(Emp) gear or Twashtar doesn't really help w/ survivability for THF, with the exception of the Raider's Poulaines due to them donating 12~15 Agility and 9~11 Evasion.

I can't say I've personally attempted to Evasion tank Atori-Tutori ???, but from what I've read so far...people seem to be throwing "Empyrean+2" sets out there as if they were a must for every situation, and that's not completely true. It's wise to have an Evasion build if you are a career Thief, Dancer, or Ninja just as it is to have a Shield skill build or MDT/PDT build for Paladin, etc..

Ochain is helpful for this tons, this much is true, but it is not a "must". No offense intended, but I did not at all see this fight to be anywhere near "too hard" and like many posts before me said, there are items that you can farm to make the fight easier. So if it's really that hard, just take some more time to farm those items.

Like I said though, 5/5 Emp+2 sets or Emp weapons aren't required, but do play a job you took the time to learn/skill/equip properly over something you just "AbysseaBurned" for Maat's Cap. Seen this mistake already many times.

Good luck to those that still need this.

Also, I should add that, before someone plays "NOT EVERYONE HAS MNK LEVELED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I cleared this with MNK(no empy) SAM NIN SMN SMN BRD. BRD did double Minuet for MNK and double march for NIN and SAM. SMNs did Hastega/INferno Howl, then one did Perfect Defense. After the 1min mark (30secs left on the first PD), use the <Run away!> item. He'll run around for 60secs. That gives you 30secs to let the first PD to wear (Perfect Defense can not overwrite Perfect Defense), then another ~25secs for the BRD to give everyone a fresh Marchx2. Then second SMN uses Perfect Defense and the melee finish off the Tarutaru.

(We got it to ~8% before the first PD wore, and we didn't know about Perfect Defense not overwriting itself. But the BRD missed the first PD and had a fresh one, so the taru killed the melee and started attacking the BRD. The other smn and myself ran off and used Elemental Siphon and threw avatars at it. The DDs Reraised and burned any TP they had. Was sloppy, but it doesn't say anywhere that Perfect Defense couldn't overwrite Perfect Defense, so we decided to try it. And we didn't have a <Run away!> item.)

The BC is hard, yes. But only if you don't have a proper strat. You could get ~3+ of those weakness items and just manaburn/arrow burn him, or just zerg him with Perfect Defense. It really isn't -that- hard.

I still think it should have been a solo fight, as it should be about you and your job and not about you and a group of other people. No matter what the difficulty level is, this feels just... wrong. :S

That's what I think anyways.
Obviously the FFXI developers have a different kind of mind-set, which means this a good idea...

What¿?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raka

Did your friend use an Evasion build? Having 5/5+2 Raider's(Emp) gear or Twashtar doesn't really help w/ survivability for THF, with the exception of the Raider's Poulaines due to them donating 12~15 Agility and 9~11 Evasion.

I can't say I've personally attempted to Evasion tank Atori-Tutori ???, but from what I've read so far...people seem to be throwing "Empyrean+2" sets out there as if they were a must for every situation, and that's not completely true. It's wise to have an Evasion build if you are a career Thief, Dancer, or Ninja just as it is to have a Shield skill build or MDT/PDT build for Paladin, etc..

Ochain is helpful for this tons, this much is true, but it is not a "must". No offense intended, but I did not at all see this fight to be anywhere near "too hard" and like many posts before me said, there are items that you can farm to make the fight easier. So if it's really that hard, just take some more time to farm those items.

Like I said though, 5/5 Emp+2 sets or Emp weapons aren't required, but do play a job you took the time to learn/skill/equip properly over something you just "AbysseaBurned" for Maat's Cap. Seen this mistake already many times.

Good luck to those that still need this.

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Your cool lol, Im glad other people agree with me.

I've won 2x. Both times we brought a couple BLM and a BRD and some random melee. BLM help to stun and keep the mob in place after using tail. We also had SMN both times but it really isn't needed. Each time the fight was over before Manafont could wear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Motenten

Did it a few times yesterday, and it was a bit tough. We walked in not really prepared for the difficulty (eg: wearing standard DD gear without any thought to him tossing an Asuran at us), and he stomped all over us. Second try we were a bit more careful, but didn't understand the damage reduction mechanism, and just didn't do enough damage before people started going squish. Third try I switched to thf (started out as mnk) and we went for a far more defensive mode (eg: constant collab on the other DD, TA the pld, etc). We were doing pretty well, but timed out.

So by today a few people had farmed up the items for the tail. Honestly, it was overkill; I think we would have been perfectly fine without it. Main thing was that we had fresh 2hrs, and a plan for taking advantage of sch enspells (along with the ton of other buffs the sch put up). The initial damage phase was going two to three times as fast as the runs we did the first night, and using the tail actually slowed us down. A couple people died right when he was at 1%, but we finished without any problem.

Did a second run with some others in the LS that couldn't fit into the first fight, and they (I sat that one out) finished without anyone dying at all, though they had someone go rdm/blm to chainspell+stun during tail use.

Yes, it's a tough fight, but if you sit down and think through the mistakes you make, and adjust your strategy accordingly, it gets easier each time. During our winning run the second day, I could hardly believe it was the same fight as the day before, it was so much easier.


Main party setup on my winning run:
Pld (no aegis or ochain, just joyeuse and MDB shield; subbed /war and ate tacos)
Thf (me; no Empyrean, just fire magian + triplus)
Sch (only hit 95 a week or two ago, middling to decent gear)
Whm (doesn't use whm much, and only got back into game a couple months ago, so gear is more old-school)
Sam (has Masamune, but Fudo sucks for this fight; used Rana and Namas (relic bow))
Nin (85 Kannagi, standard decent nin gear; did less damage than he should have because he was using Hi)

(No smn, no bst, no mnk; only used one tail per fight)

Yes, relic bow did make it easier during the tail-running phase, but mostly just for the second run. In the first run, I think she only got a single Namas off because the constant zig-zag kept her from easily targetting the Taru (she didn't use Namas when we were doing straight fighting). Was in no way a critical element.

We did not do a "zerg", though with Embrava on it almost felt like one. A straight-up fight with a bit of hate control and enspells and it's a breeze. For how we did it, pld/thf/whm/sch were the important jobs. The other two slots could have been any DD at all.


@Logandor: I use 4/5 AF3+2 and Homam feet, Rajas/Epona/Brutal/Suppa/Raider Boom/Atheling/Twilight, and Magian+Triplus daggers. My damage the first night was a bit weak, but we were playing cautiously. For the winning fight with Embrava/enspells, I was doing crazy amounts of damage. Just TA+WS on the pld, constant Collab of any other heavy DDs, and be ready to Accomp+Perfect Dodge for Hundred Fists if you don't use a tail.

I'd say thf is one of the more important jobs to bring if you want to do a fight with a more standard setup.

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That was very good info thank you. :)

I love how people as bashing the people saying it's a challanege

Pressing Hundred fist/Alexander IS NOT A CHALLEGE

tbh tho this fight does screw alot of jobs over in usefulness which is dumb

ps enspells add ALOT of dmg ^^

On second character had her on smn and the rest was a bst zerg. It was over fast.
On Kaji we tried a few times with nin and ended up saying "screw it" and switched someone to pld.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raka

Did your friend use an Evasion build? Having 5/5+2 Raider's(Emp) gear or Twashtar doesn't really help w/ survivability for THF, with the exception of the Raider's Poulaines due to them donating 12~15 Agility and 9~11 Evasion.

I can't say I've personally attempted to Evasion tank Atori-Tutori ???, but from what I've read so far...people seem to be throwing "Empyrean+2" sets out there as if they were a must for every situation, and that's not completely true. It's wise to have an Evasion build if you are a career Thief, Dancer, or Ninja just as it is to have a Shield skill build or MDT/PDT build for Paladin, etc..

Ochain is helpful for this tons, this much is true, but it is not a "must". No offense intended, but I did not at all see this fight to be anywhere near "too hard" and like many posts before me said, there are items that you can farm to make the fight easier. So if it's really that hard, just take some more time to farm those items.

Like I said though, 5/5 Emp+2 sets or Emp weapons aren't required, but do play a job you took the time to learn/skill/equip properly over something you just "AbysseaBurned" for Maat's Cap. Seen this mistake already many times.

Good luck to those that still need this.

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He didn't say :( but I do think if he did he may have forgotten it at the last moment to tell me or something. He just said "don't try it with your thf empy outfit it costed me my win when I had gone." I hope he had tried an eva set but sense he didn't say anything I am not sure. >.< Though he did message me about 30 minutes ago saying his blm managed to do nicely. Not sure the set-up he went with this time though.

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Originally Posted by Smokinskull

Bailing, I find that very funny. What else should I have to prove? That A. People are lazy, B. People rather go straight to abyssea and not learn there jobs C. People have 0 Skill when it come to something hard out side of abyssea, and D. Herp Derp therefore Gimpness.

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The point ----------------->
Your head --->O

Quick, chase after it! You might still be able to catch it!

By the way, didn't you leave the conversation? Nice to see that you're back!

It's the last level cap in the game, and you're whining that it's too hard...

i lol'd when he oneshotted an aegis paladin who thought subbing Ninja was a good idea. went back and whipped on him pld/war with OMGDEFENDR!!!! and a ttaco. easiest BCNM ive ever done. this was nothing compared to snoll, or origonal airship.

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Originally Posted by Logandor

A friend of mine just informed me he went in on his 95 thf (fully capped in merits/skills) +2 empy gear, empy weapon and twilight dagger. ;.; He got crushed and said for me to not even bother taking my thf in at all because it was a total waste. Now if some one else went in with their thf in decent gear with decent knives and lived to win can you please share your set up. I am still farming the items. I got my one stone but the other stuff is being elusive over here on Carby server at least to this thf.

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The way we did it, was SMN, BLU, BLU, THF, DNC, MNK (used perfect defense method) and when it worn, I (being 95THF) would boost my enmity from stealing enmity from the person who has the hate and then use Perfect Dodge while the rest carried on zerging him, that how we won without items

and my gears were in TP build

Won with MNK BLU THFx2 RDM WHM, used one weakening item. Hardly a 'zerg setup' and it was close but we still won.

MNK died from back to back Asuran fists at about 30%. One THF died to hundred fists, remaining one used perfect dodge but died once it wore off. Kited it for a bit on RDM (Moves at normal speed and Horlais Peak is massive) until we could finish it off.

At least on NIN, an evasion set really won't do you any good. Even ignoring his high accuracy, the real problem is that he can down you with chain-using victory smite or asuran fists.

We won last night Standard xp set up. (that's old school style). Drk, bst, pld, whm, rdm, blm. No special items. Just put enspells on, and went to town, I had to stun after WSs, and had to watch my hate. Multihit WSs do the best on him.

we won first try DRK PLD WHM SMN THF THF

we had one rarab tail, popped it during hundred fists then I stunned and everyone WSed, knocked a lot off there

besides that it was just a normal fight, two quick deaths when the taru turned and got a good WS off on someone other than the PLD but other than that it was a very easy fight

1/1'd it as PLD/DRK, WHM/BLM, MNK/WAR, BRD/WHM, SCH/RDM (me) without weakening items... seriously, people are having trouble with this?

Wasted more time in sky farming the damn seasoning stone...

People are forgetting how great stun can be thats all and the more people with stuin helps this fight.

I remember the Chains of Promathia missions back during the level cap days were sorta hard. Promyvion, Snoll Tzar, Mithran Trackers, Airship. I was fortunate that I had a linkshell full of trusted friends who I could rely on to farm the items needed for the fight, to show up for a scheduled fight, and to bring their "A" game to the fight. The end result was that the fights were challenging but still fun. We had 6 good players every time, and the confidence that if we lost, we could try again later.

But back in the capped CoP days, you pretty much had to have a static like I did to make any progress. Back then, you had thousands of people who were forced to rely on unreliable pickup groups, and just gave up on CoP while others got through because they were lucky enough to have the connections. You even had what you have now, people boasting about how "easy" the CoP fights were when really all they had was a combination of luck and great team unity.

I think people who call this an easy fight (when not being disingenuous because they used some gimmicky setup) aren't grasping the fact that a party fight is like a chain, and only as strong as its weakest link. I may be a great player who has good gear and didn't microwave my job through Abyssea leeching in a few days, but that doesn't matter unless the other 5 guys are too.

Also come on. It should be a challenge? Gimme a break. We're talking about breaking the level cap here, not getting a damn Mythic weapon. Maat is at least excusable because with him the entire success or failure of the fight is dependent upon you.

I went on DRK and my group one, the fight is easy

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Originally Posted by Finuve

I went on DRK and my group one, the fight is easy

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Where did you get your group from?

Quote:

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I think people who call this an easy fight (when not being disingenuous because they used some gimmicky setup) aren't grasping the fact that a party fight is like a chain, and only as strong as its weakest link. I may be a great player who has good gear and didn't microwave my job through Abyssea leeching in a few days, but that doesn't matter unless the other 5 guys are too.

Also come on. It should be a challenge? Gimme a break. We're talking about breaking the level cap here, not getting a damn Mythic weapon. Maat is at least excusable because with him the entire success or failure of the fight is dependent upon you.

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Agree with this post. I did this fight with LS mates and tried with a conventional setup of Healers, PLD tank, Support, DD and failed several times despite the group having good gear and knowing their jobs. Then decided to go to a setup of SMN, MNK, MNK, THF, BLU, WHM and used PD, hundred fists then olde rarab tail/sudden lunge to finish him off. Went 1/1 with the unconventional setup.
Can't see how a pickup group of average jobs is going to easily win this fight.

And the big problem with a group fight over a solo fight is that a few bad members will kill you in this fight whereas a solo fight means only you are responsible for the outcome.

In the end I see this eventually coming down to people getting merc'd through it by Alexander wielding SMN and a few MNKs as this seems to be the most consistent way to get a win. While there seems to be some other ways to beat him, the playerbase usually settles on the most reliable and it becomes very much like the ACP fight a few years back.

Boo freaking hoo.

If weak links are getting you killed, kick them and find stronger links. If you're a weak link yourself, have fun at level 95 or get started leveling a zerg job.

If you lose this fight 10 times in a row, think about what the common factor among all 10 of those fights is and then get back to me.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

Where did you get your group from?

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3 from linkshell 3 from shout

Quote:

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I think people who call this an easy fight (when not being disingenuous because they used an Ochain) aren't grasping the fact that a party fight is like a chain, and only as strong as its weakest link.

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ftfy

Not that I'm saying the fight is inappropriately difficult, but I would add my voice to the chorus pointing out that this is going to cause problems for late-comers almost immediately. Took all of three weeks IIRC for the new WoE model to effectively shut off fake Empyreans on Cerberus for anyone who didn't already have one, and I have every confidence SE will drag its feet in reducing the difficulty as quickly as it's probably going to need it.

Basically, the fight's fine right now but will probably be unwinnable by February, especially if getting help/lowmanning will involve getting multiple tails only some kind of asshole would expect friends to farm on their behalf. That's what you get for wanting to play Skyrim, nerds!

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Boo freaking hoo.

If weak links are getting you killed, kick them and find stronger links. If you're a weak link yourself, have fun at level 95 or get started leveling a zerg job.

If you lose this fight 10 times in a row, think about what the common factor among all 10 of those fights is and then get back to me.

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I think this is what people will do. It will become a merc'd fight for those with average players as friends with non-ideal jobs, just like ACP was after a while.
And our group only lost 3 times in a row before we said, "screw convention and go with a better job strategy."

The fight is a joke if you farm the items that weaken him. If you keep losing with no weakened items, I think the answer is simple. If you lose with the weaken items then you are the worst players ever, because with 6 weakened items the taru does nothing abut run around for 12 minutes, never attacking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xbobx

The fight is a joke if you farm the items that weaken him. If you keep losing with no weakened items, I think the answer is simple. If you lose with the weaken items then you are the worst players ever, because with 6 weakened items the taru does nothing abut run around for 12 minutes, never attacking.

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So you can indeed use multiple tails successively?

Might be a silly question but I've been unable to find confirmation on this.


fwiw my adventures in tutori-ing involved my LS leader wanting me to tank on MNK/NIN, so me demonstrating what a bad idea that was by running in, HFing, and WSing once before getting cuffed by Something+Howling=Liquefaction. I got him down to 70% by doing that, though, so yeah multiple tails really will make this a joke.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xbobx

The fight is a joke if you farm the items that weaken him. If you keep losing with no weakened items, I think the answer is simple. If you lose with the weaken items then you are the worst players ever, because with 6 weakened items the taru does nothing abut run around for 12 minutes, never attacking.

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Problem with this is you can't do any damage while he's running around unless you bring ranged DD's (BLM/RNG/SCH). So while you can have him "running around" you yourself won't be doing much without those above jobs. They should of made two items, one being the "running around" and another just locking his WS's out. Honestly it wouldn't be bad if he didn't spam WS constantly and face rape everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saevel

Problem with this is you can't do any damage while he's running around unless you bring ranged DD's (BLM/RNG/SCH). So while you can have him "running around" you yourself won't be doing much without those above jobs. They should of made two items, one being the "running around" and another just locking his WS's out. Honestly it wouldn't be bad if he didn't spam WS constantly and face rape everyone.

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Ever heard of a thing called stun?

or using gravity and turning off lock-on

I mean, yeah, melee might run into some problems landing weapon skills while he's running around but my biggest take-away from my one "attempt" is that he simply does not have enough health for that to matter.

Perfect Defense is basically just another tail. MNK is really good because the mechanics of the fight happen to favor it (and MNK is, of course, really good regardless), but those mechanics are eliminated by tails.

If using one gimmick to get your clear is not sufficiently practical for you, use the gimmick specifically designed for the fight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xbobx

The fight is a joke if you farm the items that weaken him. If you keep losing with no weakened items, I think the answer is simple. If you lose with the weaken items then you are the worst players ever, because with 6 weakened items the taru does nothing abut run around for 12 minutes, never attacking.

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I seem to remember the battle having a time limit of 10 minutes. ^^;

I do wonder how long the effect actually is as I'm seeing everything from 30 seconds to 60 seconds and even up to 2 minutes! I'd imagine 30 seconds would be rather close to the truth... Oh well, I will get to try it out myself soon'ish. Either way, my Ninja will probably never recover from the humiliation.

This is not how the battle should be, dang it! ·~·