Blood Weapon is not a 2hr Camate, please help!

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Maybe its time you level a new job...?

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Originally Posted by Camiie

One major problem with FFXI is this seems to be a serious answer to any imbalances.

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Thank you Camiie. I completly agree ^_-

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I guess this is what SE is doing, but they and we need to ask ourselves "What is a 2-hour ability supposed to be?" Since it's under such a lengthy recast timer shouldn't it be a "broken" ability that has a very good chance of turning a fight around? Not God Mode like a brew, but something that in almost all situations would be very advantageous to yourself and/or your party? The cost being the 2-hour wait to use it again. That's what I expect a 2-hour to be. I'm not sure what the rest of you think. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

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I'm still asking myself that over the tavnazia armor drops. So they think haste for some 3 minutes, is so awesome it needs 20 hours recast? They think refresh is so awesome it needs to have limited casts before you have to go find a new armor?

Sometimes it might be better to ask if they think at all, than what they think.

All I can say about this thread is wow. Nobody is ever happy about anything lol. If you noticed they are adding new updates to the future for merriting 2 hours and a second 2 hour ability. Until then we can only speculate. And as for Drk's 2 hour ability I still find uses for it as all 2 hours. (Hence they are not brew like abilities and dont guarantee you a win. Most are very helpful and do sway a fight) My suggestion would be to lower them to more a one hour ability and incoperate the new ones (not on same timer like you plan) as the new 2 hour ability. Because regardless of what players think every 2 hour ability of all jobs has very good use's. Its the format with which you use it and the dynamics of your group and understanding each others play skills. Thus verstile players who understand this know a 2 hour ability isnt the end all be all. After all we will still get players wanting more, which is fine for avid players wanting this or that to rule #1 job. Which will always happen I think true abilities come with being verstile and understanding dynamics of the game your group and your job. Sure we all want 2 hour instant one shot kill abilities. But each job has pros and cons to it same as its 2 hour ability. Understanding that is whats important. All are good and usefull given the right circumastances.

lolDRK.

I can say that because I lived through the early years trying to scrape by as a DRG main.

Then again, for pretty much all of the endgame stuff I do, If I mention having everything leveled, no one EVER says to come as DRK, DRG, or most of the regular melee jobs outside of MNK, WAR, or rarely RNG. If I mention I have BRD or WHM leveled I may as well just stay on them.

They really need to do overall adjustment on this job, BADLY!!!! It's like they have very little clue on how to do it and keep doing halfway efforts in the past 10 years. Warrior, Sam and Monk are great perfect examples on how to do perfect fine tune on melee jobs. Those three are the best melee DD jobs so far with good useful abilities that sets them apart. Drk on the other hand is like a bastard frankenstein effort to fuse warrior with black mage and the result is neither this or that with a bunch of semi useful abilities and nothing specials on most of their spells. We need new sets of Dark exclusive spells other than absorb and abolish the elemental tier spells (these are pathetic, useless and NOT needed). The existing Dark Spells are good, just need more tweaks. Also for the love of god, give something useful on the AF3 please... Compared to other melee jobs, DRK AF3+1 sets are a bit underwhelming. Lastly just tweak their job abilities and it should be good. Minor updates but yet no one over there seems to even have the capabilities to do it.

DRK is like, one of the best DDs in VW. Its right up there with WAR, SAM, MNK, not below it.

DRK is mostly fine outside of abyssea. In abyssea, it gets trounced because of crit and crit damage dominance.

DRK is more than fine outside. That's really the worst part about all this whining.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

DRK is more than fine outside. That's really the worst part about all this whining.

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There are still things, such as the two hour, as well as other minor stuff, that could use adjustment. It's just not vital to the job's performance.

While I agree Blood Weapon needs a twist to it to make it worthwhile again without it being exploited (I also agree with removing the job from the Kraken Club or limiting BW to the 1st hit of a multihit weapon), I can't agree with the argument that Dark Knight is underpowered. There's no logical basis for it. With the tools that a Dark Knight has, I'm shocked the other jobs aren't looking for boosts to match it.

Here's some 2-hour abilities that need a look:

*Blood Weapon (too short for DRKs main weapons to be effective)
*Eagle Eye Shot (doesn't scale properly in terms of damage)
*Overdrive (Overload-prevention gear pretty much obviates this JA as things stand)
*Invincible (Let's have some truth-in-advertising if spells are going to continue to get past this JA)
*Perfect Dodge (see above. Spells I can understand, not so much when it comes to shots)
*Familiar (If Charming's a thing of the past, let's modify this to benefit the jug pets a little more)

I'd change if I got any serious opposition other than "shut up." Your arguments hold about as much water as 1ply toilet paper in a public bathroom.

Or if SE was like "Yea DRK is fine, suck it. In a dev response."

Last you'd be hearing from me.

Until then.


Because with things like BLU SAM RDM running around, SAM having plague on weapon Bash, BLU getting Doom and DRK getting Occult Acumen and SD. I'll continue posting about DRK and how little things on it make sense.

But don't worry! I am also aware of the other things in the game that make no sense to on other jobs, PLD not having a staple hate generation move for one, PD not working against bolts, Invincible not working against magic (or at least say this).

However this thread was about blood weapon.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Lol.

Souleater.

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You need to go back to elementary school, Souleater doesn't multiply anything.

Sir. . . are you retarded?

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Originally Posted by Nynja

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Phoenix/Urteil

He has ONE job leveled...



If you werent meant to have multiple jobs leveled, then FFXI would be like WoW where you can only play one class per character.

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Nice relic, oh wait.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

I'd change if I got any serious opposition other than "shut up." Your arguments hold about as much water as 1ply toilet paper in a public bathroom.

Or if SE was like "Yea DRK is fine, suck it. In a dev response."

Last you'd be hearing from me.

Until then.


Because with things like BLU SAM RDM running around, SAM having plague on weapon Bash, BLU getting Doom and DRK getting Occult Acumen and SD. I'll continue posting about DRK and how little things on it make sense.

But don't worry! I am also aware of the other things in the game that make no sense to on other jobs, PLD not having a staple hate generation move for one, PD not working against bolts, Invincible not working against magic (or at least say this).

However this thread was about blood weapon.

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Each job has pro's and cons same with 2 hour its how you work with and understand them ^^ :) Its not a once every 2 hour I get a brew button. Undertsanding each 2 hour abilities limits and capablities is key. As i stated in my post though depending on the new abilites we get as a 2 hour. Some these 2 horu abilities we get should move down to a 1 hour ability and them be our 2 hour not share same timer. Blood weapon specificialy is ok to me not best but has its uses. Same all other job's 2 hours.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Nice relic, oh wait.

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I never updated my page for when my server got merged cause I stopped carring about ffxiah ranking, try looking at the Nynja on Gilgamesh.

let me help you
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Gilgamesh/Nynja

dumb fk...

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Originally Posted by Urteil

You need to go back to elementary school, Souleater doesn't multiply anything.

Sir. . . are you retarded?

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D0 += HP*0.12 = D1

D1 = D0*P where P is the proportion between base damage and HP*0.12

Souleater is a damage multiplier. Blood Weapon makes it a free damage multiplier.

:3

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Nice relic, oh wait.

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Wow, way to totally stuff your foot all the way into your mouth...

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

D0 += HP*0.12 = D1

D1 = D0*P where P is the proportion between base damage and HP*0.12

Souleater is a damage multiplier. Blood Weapon makes it a free damage multiplier.

:3

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Soul Eater is not a damage multiplier idiot, it damage is 10% of the drk's maximum HP....where do you come up with bogus information and bogus math????

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Soul Eater is not a damage multiplier idiot, it damage is 10% of the drk's maximum HP....where do you come up with bogus information and bogus math????

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It's a % of the drk's current HP, not max HP. The actual % can vary with equipment. Where do you come up with yours?

Souleater + BW used to be the most overpowered combination in the game. With kraken club or (back before haste cap nerf) apoc, drk was far and away the most valuable DD for zerging DLord. It was souleater + BW that conquered AV and forced them to rebalance. Even on lesser stuff, SE+BW got used to solo the later CoP battlefields with mercurial kris. DRK is the only job to be directly nerfed on endgame bosses simply because of the staggering power that SE+BW provides. Lots of 2hrs suck worse than BW does.

That being said, the situations where BW is useful are not as diverse as the situations some 2hrs are useful. It also sort of lacks that "OH CRAP!" usefulness where you can pop it to save the day when something goes wrong. So in that regard, yes, it's weaker than the other heavy DD 2hr. But I'm hoping that's what the second 2hr release will be fixing.

Overall however, I don't think a 2hr tweak is what drk needs most of all right now. I think other areas of the job should be examined first.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Soul Eater is not a damage multiplier idiot, it damage is 10% of the drk's maximum HP....where do you come up with bogus information and bogus math????

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Can you come up with an actual mathy formula to rebuttal his claims instead of calling him an idiot please? some people are actually wanting to know the answer since you said his math is bogus...

btw from the wiki...

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The Enhances "Souleater" Effect, found on Chaos Burgeonet/(+1), Gloom Breastplate, or Sable Cuisses, adds an additional 2% to the effect, dealing 12% of the Dark Knight's current HP instead of 10%. This enhancement does not stack from multiple pieces.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Soul Eater is not a damage multiplier idiot, it damage is 10% of the drk's maximum HP....where do you come up with bogus information and bogus math????

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It's an ambiguous definition, since a percentage is always a multiplier (x% of y being y*x/100).

As was pointed out, nothing is broken. In fact, the only DD two-hour ability I know that can actually save a party is Meikyo Shusui (if it manages to kill the mob in that time), and occasionally Spirit Surge. Mighty Strikes also doesn't help much, same as Hundred Fists, and that's because these abilities weren't designed to save a dying party. They were actually designed to be able to prepare for harder fights (although Hundred Fists was all around badly designed). And if you prepare for those fights, Blood Weapon still excels, and not only with a Kraken Club. Even Ridill or Mercurial Kris DRK can put out ridiculous amounts of damage in that time. There simply is nothing to complain about.

Don't worry. Some people just don't understand basic algebra. When you can define arbitrary variables, it is fairly simple to treat Souleater as a damage multiplier. You simply have to account for the fact that the coefficient is a variable proportional to the DRK's current HP and inversely proportional to the DRK's base damage/hit.

If Base Damage/Swing is 50, and you have 1000 HP, you are doing 170 damage/hit with Souleater+Blood Weapon. That is equivalent to a Damage Multiplier of 340%.

Yup. I'm an idiot.

Edit: For clarity, you are always able to rewrite Y = A+B as Y = A*C as long as you acknowledge that C is a variable based on the ratio between B and A. hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr high school maaaaath

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Don't worry. Some people just don't understand basic algebra. When you can define arbitrary variables, it is fairly simple to treat Souleater as a damage multiplier. You simply have to account for the fact that the coefficient is a variable proportional to the DRK's current HP and inversely proportional to the DRK's base damage/hit.

If Base Damage/Swing is 50, and you have 1000 HP, you are doing 170 damage/hit with Souleater+Blood Weapon. That is equivalent to a Damage Multiplier of 340%.

Yup. I'm an idiot.

Edit: For clarity, you are always able to rewrite Y = A+B as Y = A*C as long as you acknowledge that C is a variable based on the ratio between B and A. hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr high school maaaaath

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Its just a straight 10% of the drk's current hp thats all....I dont know what type of math your trying to put out but its 10% of drk hp thats it, your formula didnt make sense and soul eater is not a damage multipier but rather a straight 10% of the drk current hp which is convert into damage and with bloodweapon it just augments the hp return

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Its just a straight 10% of the drk's current hp thats all....I dont know what type of math your trying to put out but its 10% of drk hp thats it, your formula didnt make sense and soul eater is not a damage multipier but rather a straight 10% of the drk current hp which is convert into damage and with bloodweapon it just augments the hp return

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How old are you? If you're <=16, I'd understand if you just plain haven't taken many math courses and I'll leave you be. Suffice to say, I'm not sure if I can explain it any more simply =/.

Y = Damage dealt with Souleater+BW.
A = Base Damage dealt w/o SE/BW
B = Damaged added from SE/BW = Current HP * 0.12

Standard equation for SE+BW damage is Y = A+B

This can be rewritten as Y = A*C as long as you define C to be:

C = (A+B)/A

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

If Base Damage/Swing is 50, and you have 1000 HP, you are doing 170 damage/hit with Souleater+Blood Weapon. That is equivalent to a Damage Multiplier of 340%

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Your wrong bud, if Base Damage/Swing is 50, and you have 1000 HP, you are doing 150 damage for the FIRST hit and not 170 damage/hit, its just a straight 10% increase to your base damage. Furthermore its 10% of drk's current hp, and bloodweapon will make the damage static because of the hp return of the 2hr

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Your wrong bud, if Base Damage/Swing is 50, and you have 1000 HP, you are doing 150 damage for the FIRST hit and not 170 damage/hit, its just a straight 10% increase to your base damage. Furthermore its 10% of drk's current hp, and bloodweapon will make the damage static because of the hp return of the 2hr

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1) We're only talking about Souleater in the context of Blood Weapon, so it is always the same damage per hit.

2) Enhances Souleater gear. It enhances the bonus to 12% of current HP. Why do I know more about DRK than you? Mine's 37.

3) Read my previous post if you still don't understand the math.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

How old are you? If you're <=16, I'd understand if you just plain haven't taken many math courses and I'll leave you be. Suffice to say, I'm not sure if I can explain it any more simply =/.

Y = Damage dealt with Souleater+BW.
A = Base Damage dealt w/o SE/BW
B = Damaged added from SE/BW = Current HP * 0.12 Wrong

Standard equation for SE+BW damage is Y = A+B

This can be rewritten as Y = A*C as long as you define C to be:

C = (A+B)/A

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First off I'm a college professor, second how many times can I say your wrong its simple, change your value to 10% and then add in a variable that account for the drk's current HP and then your math formula will work. Basically right now, your souleater percentage is wrong and your missing a variable to account for the drks current HP. Get your math right before you try to use it as a argument or talking piont

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

First off I'm a college professor, second how many times can I say your wrong its simple, change your value to 10% and then add in a variable that account for the drk's current HP and then your math formula will work. Basically right now, your souleater percentage is wrong and your missing a variable to account for the drks current HP. Get your math right before you try to use it as a argument or talking piont

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Enhances "Souleater" Effect, found on Chaos Burgeonet/(+1), Gloom Breastplate, or Sable Cuisses, adds an additional 2% to the effect, dealing 12% of the Dark Knight's current HP instead of 10%. This enhancement does not stack from multiple pieces.

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B also accounts for current HP. B = Current HP * 0.12.

What do you teach?

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

1) We're only talking about Souleater in the context of Blood Weapon, so it is always the same damage per hit.

2) Enhances Souleater gear. It enhances the bonus to 12% of current HP. Why do I know more about DRK than you? Mine's 37.

3) Read my previous post if you still don't understand the math.

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What are you talking about there nothing in you formula that accounts for outliners like gear...how can you give a formula with so many hidden values??? No one can solve a equation with hidden values in the formula, you failed to put any of that in your formula and as result your formula is bogus. Moreover the first formula you put up I believe you did it just to confuse people, however now you trying to clean it up but I'm sorry its still wrong simply based on the formula you have provided

Jesus Christ.

Is it that hard to understand that Y = A+B can be rewritten as Y = A*C when C = (A+B)/A?

Simplify the second equation and you just get Y = A+B, the only difference is you have a product there instead of a sum. Thus, a multiplier.

Please. Please. Please. Just go by the Math department and ask one of the profs there to run through the equation for you. This is really just getting ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

B also accounts for current HP. B = Current HP * 0.12.

What do you teach?

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Do not worry about it, Im just pionting out your math is wrong, and now your trying the place in all sorts of hidden values to clean up your argument. I have articulated and underlined your formulas and stated why they were off, there not much more to argue

I think I just got trolled.

God dammit.

LOL

That whole back and forth reminds me of when i tried to explain Punnett Squares to a hopeless lab partner in Bio. He never got it either.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

First off I'm a college professor, second how many times can I say your wrong its simple, change your value to 10% and then add in a variable that account for the drk's current HP and then your math formula will work. Basically right now, your souleater percentage is wrong and your missing a variable to account for the drks current HP. Get your math right before you try to use it as a argument or talking piont

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It's "you're" professor. Don't sit there and try and pull out your profession when you're making stupid spelling mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Do not worry about it, Im just pionting out your math is wrong, and now your trying the place in all sorts of hidden values to clean up your argument. I have articulated and underlined your formulas and stated why they were off, there not much more to argue

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I'm guessing not an English professor.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

First off I'm a college professor

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There used to be a psychiatrist around here somewhere.

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Originally Posted by BorkBorkBork

I'm guessing not an English speling professor.

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ftfy :D

your right :(

Perhaps a P.E. teacher?

Alright, not everyone can spell correctly, its just human error. This thread was designed to benefit and help improve upon Dark Knight, not slander others. As a community, we should be reflecting ideas on how either improve or adjust the job. Instead were going off topic, either saying the job sucks play a new one, or play a job that's designed for certain circumstances.

The major thing with Dark Knight is yes, were not totally broken. Were totally mediocre.
The things that should be adjusted our are recast timers on drain, a adjustment to Scarlet Delirium, lolzBlood Weapon, and how to make us actually benefit from casting spells.

I'm capped scythe skill, with armor that further enhances the skill, yet I pull a blood weapon, and get something like this:
Miss
Critical Hit! 709 damage
Hit! 330 damage

The blood weapon effect wears off.

Yes, blood weapon has its uses, but its short timer makes it useless. Compared to invincible, its a sick joke. Why drain health, when you can just negate it all together? Were not asking for the moon here, just a few fixes that will allow us to play our job how it was designed, as a "purveyor of pain".

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Originally Posted by Zeroe

Compared to invincible, its a sick joke.

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PLD uses invincible at low HP to survive
Mob casts Meteor / death / any TP move that is non physical
PLD dies
Mob: lol

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Originally Posted by SNK

Wow, way to totally stuff your foot all the way into your mouth...

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Seems he hasnt posted since lol...

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Originally Posted by SNK

It's "you're" professor. Don't sit there and try and pull out your profession when you're making stupid spelling mistakes.

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Nice spelling and grammar attacks on an informal forum bravo to you for correcting me