We'll by looking at the art work for Final Fantasy XIV Version 2.0 it looks complete revamp indeed, so your right. As for the base model designs Male Mithra seems to be added to the mix no idea if there be playable or NPC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nala
http://www.creativeuncut.com/art_fin...rsion-2_a.html
Why Cant Final fantasy 11 get the same treatment?
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10-29-2011, 04:17 AMShadobi
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10-29-2011, 07:27 AMAtomic_SkullBecause if they gave it proper attention it wouldn't be dying? and also because FFXIV is almost certainly going to fail anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by Seiver
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10-29-2011, 07:56 AMSeshThat is the real issue most people seem to understand and SE doesn't. FFXIV currently has about 30k players or so that's what everyone says. They are going to start charging customers this December, which will certainly hurt the "Active" player status, because lets be honest there are more than a few that still have their character on FFXIV because it's free. On top of that the 2.0 wont be complete for nearly 2 years as a finished product. So let me get this straight SE (and the people speaking up against a XI remake) truly believes that during this two year period people will come in mass to subscribe to 14, players will start quitting XI to join XIV, and somehow the game will shoot up to some phenomenon level of awesomeness. Let's live in reality, over the next two years more MMOs will flood the market, SE won't do any advertising anywhere except japan and 14 will linger and sit at 100k subscribers for the next five years. Most people on this thread would rather see a remake of a dying game, than one that is already dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull
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10-30-2011, 01:29 AMllello
Im glad everyone for the full revamp of FFXI in here are business majors. I see all your posts are based on investment,growth,gain, and profit margin charts and graphs, rather than your and your LS buddies want new graphics to oh an ah about and a built in interface for unlimited macro lines cause "its hard yo" to use 3 macros to change into a full gear set. 1st thing would be to stop citing pop numbers that FFXIAH tells you or your LS buddies "know for a fact" cause it makes you sound kinda silly tbh.
Please don't confuse my post as Im against the idea. Its just the same people keep quoting the same "outta the air" numbers and the same lame reasons why FFXIV will never do good. Whats so hard to understand FFXVI has a much newer engine and code base soooooo its much easier to build upon and improve than a 10+ year old engine and source. -
10-30-2011, 02:21 AMFrankReynolds
You seem to be confusing new with good. I know commercials tell you to go buy something just because its new, but that doesn't always equal good. Also since you mention ROI. What are my chances of a good ROI for me if I start playing FFXIV? Because when I check my magic 8 ball, it says "Not so good". See from Squares perspective, obviously the newer game has more potential, but from a customer standpoint, its not looking so good.
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10-30-2011, 02:52 AMGreatguardianI'm glad you're a computer science major with experience in software programming and engine design.Quote:
Originally Posted by llello
The biggest hurdle I could imagine with regards to upgrading FFXI's engine would be the fact that the people that designed it are no longer working with Square Enix. Even then, though, SE would be much better off just licensing an existing engine regardless of which game they apply it to. Crystal Tools is extremely screwy and they've poured far more money into it at this point than it would have cost them to license a better engine. Even now, scrapping it and licensing a new engine would likely be cheaper than fixing the damn thing.
Even if they were to "upgrade" FFXI, that doesn't mean that it would have to be in CE3 or its equivalent. Because it's such an old game, the standards for basic interface and graphical upgrades are much lower than those for a brand new game. I don't care about DX11 support in FFXI, I'd be happy with DX9!
The fact of the matter is, SE corporate is screwing itself over pretty hardcore. They posted terrible losses last year, and part of their marketing plan to recoup those losses was to "revitalize existing MMOs". Unfortunately, they're trying to do this without spending very much money by forcing the 6 Devs and 1 Hamster still working on the game to work overtime and crank out whatever they can with the same, or fewer, resources than they've had previously. It's a sad situation, because you know anyone still working under those conditions is either a hardcore masochist or legitimately loves the game, but love for your work isn't going to magically add more hours to the day.
The point is really this: They could try revitalizing FFXIV-2 and hoping it will turn out well, despite the fact that its record is terrible and it had one of the worst MMO launches in recent memory. They could do this while directly competing with TERA, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft, and their own flagship MMO. Or they could allocate even half as many resources to an already-established MMO with a solid market and rabid subscriber base that would gladly sell their souls for a client upgrade.
This has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with corporate executives taking an extraordinary gamble with our money because they're too stubborn to scrap a failed project. -
10-30-2011, 04:54 AMkatoplepa
everyone is talking about graphics and redesign... but, honestly, who really cares about graphyc?
I don't know 1 player who are quitting (or quitted) because of the out-dated graphycs... there are many mmo there are still active and played, loved from playerbase, and the graphyc is still the same...
FFXIV is beautiful to see, very great graphics, but it's a fail and nobody wants to play it, anyway, even if the graphic is good... and I'm sure when SE will start to ask fee, half the active players will quit... Friends that I know are playing it only because it's free...
in the end, FFXI is loved and played NOT for the graphics, but for the contents and because is well projected...
give us some new contents, some new areas designed for liv.99, give us new challengings events, with the same graphics, and we will continue to pay for it, for sure... -
10-30-2011, 05:15 AMGreatguardian
It's not about quitting due to graphics. It's about potentially adding a new playerbase with an updated graphics engine.
Most of us who play now don't care about the graphics because we've been playing the game since the graphics were relatively good for the time, and we have a combination of nostalgia goggles and a personal investment in the game. Neither of these mean anything to people who may potentially pick up the game on steam or at best buy. -
10-30-2011, 05:18 AMSeshAt this point, with the skeleton crew, and the level of how much the higher ups care about anything regarding FFXI, asking for simple practical requests much less a 2.0 version is nothing but a dream. It really is to bad that they have such a disregard for FFXI and its loyal fans(aka the people that are paying for FFXIV).Quote:
give us some new contents, some new areas designed for liv.99, give us new challengings events, with the same graphics, and we will continue to pay for it, for sure...
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10-30-2011, 05:59 AMLuso
I wouldn't say that many MMOs are still the same graphics-wise; they might have had tweaks such as advanced lightning and anti-aliasing or better support for higher resolutions, but nothing too major like what MMOs like XIV, WoW, or RuneScape are going/went through. This is because they aren't limited by a platform that can't get a hardware upgrade, aka the PS2. I'd like to know what MMOs haven't had any sort of graphics update and how many players play such, because it's all conjecture until examples are given. FFXI had minor tweaks in the form of resolutions and font recently, but the resolutions, to my knowledge, aren't really what I'd call exact as there are still two different kinds of resolutions you're dealing with here. It'd be better to combine both to save the user the trouble of figuring out what is what and what setting to put which at, but that might be just me.
Besides, I'm pretty sure most of the player base isn't asking for an actual graphical remake of FFXI: they simply want support for DX9+ (and newer graphics cards, as well) among other things, which isn't as tedious and time-consuming as remaking the engine would be, I'm sure. Or, they could do what someone else suggested and license a third party engine. Either way, it's better than what FFXI is running on now, and it would solve a whole slew of issues this game has running on the PC, at least. This would probably eliminate things such as FPS issues in content like Campaign, Besieged, etc.
Most of my friends who play this game on PC actually WANT to use the extra power they have on their card, such as VRAM, but can't because of the limitations this game has without circumventing something internally in the game. -
10-30-2011, 02:02 PMllello
Lol says the person who stated that mmo's run on drama and bs politics.
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10-30-2011, 03:11 PMAtomic_SkullI'm not sure I understand you, please explain this further.Quote:
Originally Posted by llello
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10-30-2011, 03:54 PMllello
The point is why start drama and post stupid stuff in response to me when I haven't said anything negative to you. It detracts from the discussion.
In fact , if you read the last part of my post I actually agree an upgrade would be nice. And additional features like an improved inventory system would be welcome. I just think its foolish of people to expect SE to throw everything FFXIV related in the incinerator and allocate the personnel and funds to FFXI. Like other people have posted if that were to ever happen the staff and funds would go to a new project. -
10-30-2011, 04:35 PMMolech
FFXIV is only getting the attention its getting because the game was so bad that it damaged the entire brand. Japanese people are very prideful people, there is no way they were going to just let their flagship title go down in flames just to appease FFXI players by shifting more resources to an almost 10 year old game from when the Japanese service started which is basically what you're asking them to do.
FFXIV is and was always going to be the next MMO, you can't look at SE's decisions any differently because you have 8 years invested in this game.
People are just QQ'ing that they will eventually have to accept that this game is old and the bare minimum is being done to keep people playing it. -
10-30-2011, 06:16 PMkatoplepaI'm not sure about the fact "new graphics = new players"Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
because of FFXIV is very good at graphics, but even the oldest even the newest players, don't want to play it and sure don't want to pay for it, so the graphics can't help totally, graphics can help at the start, when you see screenshot or video before the launch of the game, but when you start to play it, graphics go down in front of gameplay.
think about a FFXI with HQ graphics : sure, it's cool! the actual players will be very happy and maybe someone who quitted will reactivate, but if the contents are still the same, the cool sensations will finish within a couple of months.
so, my opinion is : more and new contents (not only battlefields, but new areas and so on) are more important then graphics and anyway an update in the graphics can't come without new contents. -
10-30-2011, 11:52 PMZagenBetter graphics has always brought in new players if this wasn't the case the push for increasing graphical potential in video games over the past 10 years wouldn't have been so strong. Though it doesn't keep those players if the game play isn't there to back up the pretty looks.Quote:
Originally Posted by katoplepa
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10-31-2011, 12:26 AMVoldMeme: It's okay to continue to pay 12.95+ a month on a MMO and not get the expected service for your dollars. Just say that it's old and the dollars are for keeping the servers up so you can sleep better at night and don't ask any questions. K, got it. Glad we get these memes. We wouldn't know wtf was going on, otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molech
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10-31-2011, 02:27 AMRunespider
All I want from my FFXI is more money spent on good content, graphics updates although very nice would not alone keep me playing. I had a very pretty FFXIV on my pc for a long time and logged on twice at most.
Logging into FFXI and having nothing to do is the game killer (adding cheap shallow content with horrible drop rates is not doing it), add more staff, increase the games budget, release more expansions/addons and keep us paying you for many years to come. -
10-31-2011, 05:08 AMMiiyo
Everything that everyone is complaining about for ffxi... new areas, new content, updated graphics... it's all right there in FFXIV 2.0. They're adding jobs, adding male kitties and female tanks. It'll officially be the next FFXI. Really, it won't be anything revolutionary because you level, you quest, you kill bosses. It's the formula for mmo's. What makes a good mmo is how you have to go about doing these tasks that you'll constantly repeat. No, we can't just do that to ffxi because the game is old and coded so much differently coded. All FFXI can do is add more zones, and add more nm's. It's very limited on it's growth without having to completely disregard all current content. FFXI would have to become FFXI.2. A new game. Aka, FFXIV. So there's an extra V on the end of the name. Get over it.
I'm sorry but I'm not convinced that the fail of 14 (and 13 for that matter) wasn't planned. I just see a really good marketing scheme by gaining immense popularity by being such a renown company and blowing these games, and then the sudden change of heart in customer service and communication, and what you would gain by creating an epic fail and turning into a glorious game. Everyone didn't know FFXIV or FFXIII. Everyone does now because of all the horrible press. People are watching SE right now. Everything they release is being paid attention to. Especially their most popular series. Bad news always travels faster than good news. So now that these games have their fame, for good or bad, what happens when they make it great? Risky, and some definitely won't give it another try, but I only see them gaining from this. -
10-31-2011, 05:33 AMcidbahamutI'm sorry but this is absolutely batshit fucking insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miiyo
No one intentionally sabotages a project that has had millions put into just so they can try to pull some extra press by making a miraculous comeback. -
10-31-2011, 05:51 AMSeshSorry but the only people that know about 14 are people that were already playing XI, and it will probably stay that way for the next few years. 9/10 gamers have a vague clue about FFXI and even less of a % know or care about anything FFXIV related.Quote:
Everyone didn't know FFXIV or FFXIII. Everyone does now because of all the horrible press.
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10-31-2011, 05:52 AMTybudXThe problem with this situation is that SE has never had a clue as to why one title was successful while others were absolute shit, and they have such a huge fan base that going off of sales alone is a terrible indicator as to which titles were actually good. Right now they are propping up a terrible game with continued sales from a relatively successful game. There is ironing there if you look hard enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molech
Also, SE can take their pride and shove it up their asses. They have been trying for years to figure out what the "American" consumers want in a game. They came up with flashy graphics and what amounts to playable books. We used to get Tactics, Chrono Trigger, FFVI, Vagrant Story. Now we get FFX and XIII. We went from well thought out battle systems with great story lines to the same rehashed neo-cyber punk emo BS, turn the page and play paper - rock - scissors, watch the game play itself. Really? There's more ironing there.
I couldn't care less about a graphical upgrade to FFXI, I just wish that the people in charge of the flow of money at SE could grow a set of eyes on the back of their necks. At least then they would be able to see what's going on while their heads are planted firmly up their own asses. -
10-31-2011, 06:08 AMHelel
People keep posting that because FF14 is "new" it's more attractive than FFXI (for SE). This is just plain wrong. Anyone who's played other MMOs will tell you that the majority of the subscribers are the ones who signed up from day one. People don't just randomly decide to try out new MMOs on a whim (most don't). Many people, including myself, enjoy the rush to the highest level, to the best gear, etc. but that's all far past now. FFXIV is actually very old for the MMO market, and trying to revive it is ridiculous. It ALWAYS fails, every, single, time. SE is just wasting their time.
Here are some examples:
Asheron's Call 2: also similar to the original like FFXIV. They eventually shut down the servers because of a crappy launch.
Everquest 2: still alive, but numbers are around FFXIV I would guess. I heard they did attempt to revamp this game quite a bit, but still it's far behind XI.
I played both of those games, and I've personally experienced how a MMO dies. FFXIV is clearly on that track. SE should just let it linger in existence until it fades away--like it's going to do anyway. -
10-31-2011, 11:12 AMXellith
2.0 will have to be something epic in order to make FFXIV survive. It's got all the subscribers it's going to get until this fabled 2.0 which will be around in 1-2 years... Even then I honestly don't know if re-marketing it is gonna do the trick. The damage has been done.
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10-31-2011, 10:57 PMCapriciousOneKeyword meaning not guaranteed. Most of the money being used to do all this revamping is coming for previous Final Fantasy games including Final Fantasy XI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
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10-31-2011, 11:03 PMCapriciousOneTrue but they are only doing that because they know there is no decent alternative MMO for the PS2/PS3 and are taking advantage of it. It's called a monopoly. When a Rival MMO not made them comes into the marketplace then they will act like they care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
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11-01-2011, 02:19 AMLuso
Actually, Free Realms and DC Universe Online are doing decently on the PS3; both also have PC counterparts, but they are available on the PS3, too, much like XIV will be. Also, since both are using a F2P model, I imagine that the amount of players as well as micro-transactions will only increase as time moves on.
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11-01-2011, 02:26 AMZagenDo you know if either of them will support cross platform playing? Looking this up for DC Universe atm but maybe you'll respond before I find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luso
Edit: Just found it in the FAQ console and PC can't play together. -
11-01-2011, 05:32 AMOlorYeah, if people can continue to pump out expansions for Everquest 2 and WoW, which are in the same generation as XI, there really isn't much of an excuse to abandon XI players/let the game languishQuote:
Originally Posted by Runespider
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11-01-2011, 05:33 AMOlorYeah... I guess that is why WoW never gets any new subsQuote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
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11-01-2011, 05:47 AMZagenQuote:
Originally Posted by Olor
- WoW is easy to jump in and walks you through the first few levels, actually up until around 20 or so it holds your hand. Even then quests/missions never really stop holding your hand they just tone it down.
- WoW is also free to play now for the lower levels.
- WoW gives new and old players incentive to play new characters (Hi, rested EXP being character specific and not account specific).
- WoW allows the option of a new player being "power leveled", through content. FFXI does this now to a degree but its much weaker. Not saying this is a good thing just that it is a factor for new players or a friend of a friend joining the game.
- WoW isn't crippled by locking the game's potential by a console.
I could keep going on about how many things WoW did right to gain the subscription base it has and to continue gaining new subscribers but that doesn't help FFXI because these are things the devs could see on their own and "steal" for FFXI or FFXIV but they've chosen not to in a lot of cases. -
11-01-2011, 06:35 AMOlor
Honestly there are a lot of reasons people could give why building on XI has a lower potential ROI than rebuilding XIV, but "too much content to catch up with" shouldn't be one of them
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11-01-2011, 06:54 AMZagenI never said that in and of itself it was. It is a factor tied in to what is putting off new players, not the content itself or really the amount of time it might take but the fact that there is so much content no one is doing anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olor
The last time I reactivated my WoW account (Wrath of the Lich King had just come out if I remember right) I created 3 new characters 1 to play with a few friends in a static, 2 others to fill the time while they were doing endgame on their mains. While leveling all 3 characters I was almost always around lower level characters doing the same quests/missions as me.
Outside of taking my mule through Gusgen Mines 19-30 I was solo the whole time, even with my flag up.
WoW is obviously doing a lot of things right when it comes to the outdated content, some of which I mentioned to many other likely factors involved that FFXI doesn't have going for it, but it doesn't really matter that WoW has them. FFXI doesn't meaning a lower appeal to new players, meaning another notch against being a good ROI candidate. -
11-01-2011, 06:58 AMOlor
But who is to say that a XI revamp wouldn't be able to include systems to make the game more appealing to new players? Nevermind that doing a revamp itself (and advertising it) would bring in new players, which is half the problem at the moment - still - it isn't difficult at all to get "caught up" on anything essential in XI right now.
I don't think players are put off by content - by horrific time sinks? Sure - but not by content.
Also as someone who is quite familiar with XIV - I would say the situation for a new player in that game is MUCH MUCH WORSE. Pretty much everyone is capped on multiple crafts (which they probably used bots to level cause it is excruciating) and you NEED multiple jobs leveled to high levels even do 1 job well (gladiator is a perfect example) and the grind is sort of soul destroying... sure there is hardly any content to "catch up" on, but I don't think the game being almost barren of content should be considered a selling point. -
11-01-2011, 07:09 AMZagenNo one can say for sure, all they can do is look at current information available. XI is running on a 10 year old core engine, supporting a deprecated console, functioning on PC through a wrapper meaning expansion is severely limited, 360 is likely running trough the same direct x wrapper as the PC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olor
PS2 limitations. Take away the PS2 and those become limitations of an engine designed to function on a PS2.
All content is a Time Sink >.> And again it isn't the content itself its the fact that there is so much content no one is doing anymore and some of that content is still important to the current content.
Edit:
Oddly enough it is because it can be spun as room for growth, more so room for growth that welcomes a new player base because there is more content for them to do with old players because the old players couldn't have done it yet. I'm not saying this is a great argument just one that I've seen spun successfully in the game industry several times before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olor
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11-01-2011, 07:53 AMOlor
Spin might get people in the door for a first try... but given how badly they burned everyone who originally bought the game, they will need a heck of a lot more than spin to make XIV pay for itself, let alone make money.
Much easier to spin a relaunch of a game which didn't go down in flames, imo - there are probably a crap ton of players who dropped the game over the years who have some fond memories who would probably come back if they saw a good advertising campaign that specifically addressed some of the big reasons ppl quit (high time investment - low reward was probably the biggest one)
Imagine a welcome to Vanadiel campaign that included a new expansion, with a focused pitch about how much easier it is to get into the game now (complete with a smattering of revamped lower level content/quests - especially ones that LEAD new players to maze of shakrami and gusgen etc at appropriate levels so they can easily get in on the GoV action) - doesn't even need to be a lot of new lower leveled content - just enough to ease new players into the revamped leveling system
If they added a whole new nation on a different continent - made speedy travel more accessible at a lower level (maws etc - and more teleport npcs!) - and allowed new players to roll as a member of that nation it would be even better, but really, just adding a real expansion (with some solo-low-man content for all levels - but heavy on 6 man (max) endgame) would do wonders for the game if they actually advertised it a bit. -
11-01-2011, 08:22 AMZagenYour ideas cost much much more money than SE's ideas for FFXIV. Why you might be asking? When looking at both game's life span, to make FFXI survive 2 things have to happen PS2 must be dropped or no longer updated, and the core engine must be rebuilt for PC, 360, and PS3 respectively. Either individually or PC downgrades for 360 and PS3. All of this equals more money and/or time invested. More money invested means less potential ROI in the same time frame or a slower potential ROI, neither of these are things investors want to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olor
That right there makes FFXI a bad investment not to mention the other factors (outdated content current players don't do, large top heavy player base, etc.) when comparing it to XIV. -
11-01-2011, 08:57 AMLuso
I don't think the core engine has to be remade entirely; maybe for more things such as the inclusion of flying mounts, jumping, etc, but I think most people prefer adjustments or additions that could be made if the limiting factors weren't a) the amount of RAM the PS2 has and b) the amount of hard drive space the PS2 has left. The 360 isn't and shouldn't be included in this, because it has access to 512 MB of RAM minus the amount of RAM needed to operate a background OS (which would be quite minimal) and the option to increase hard drive space (plus, if you even plan to play XI on the 360, all game boxes have a notice on the back and in the manual stating you need at least a 20 GB hard disk to play and that you should keep a reserve amount for future updates). It isn't bound by a strict 40 GB hard disk with an apparent 10 GB or so partition-size for FFXI. Correct me if I'm wrong about the latter, anyone.
I would prefer higher res. textures, really, as oppsoed to a whole graphical remake. The geometry is fine, still; for a PS2 game, XI's use of polygons is still good to me. However, with textures, I believe that dev's start out with higher resolution textures and then downscale them as needed in order to fit the specs of platforms accessing the game. I'm sure that for the PC and possibly 360 clients, this could be a possible update without really changing anything engine-related other than requiring more VRAM and possibly more CPU power given the way the game generates its imagery. Still might be a thing to look at.
That, or just update the DirectX version used with the game to a much higher version; if that was all we could get in terms of graphics, I'd be more for it since a lot of the issues I have with XI are technical-based and not graphics-based (FPS, collisions of objects, etc).
Several things that could be fixed include item space, new areas and not just re-skinned versions, higher resolutions which mean that things the dev's wanted to include but couldn't now can (mini-map as an example), possibly more enemies and/or NPCs on-screen due to increase of VRAM available in events such as Besieged, Campaign, etc. I for one would love this, but hopefully SE tells us what the survey they requested we take was about. -
11-01-2011, 12:25 PMAtomic_SkullXbox 360 only has DirectX 9, it does not have the DLLs for previous versions of DirectX. Microsoft saw no need to create 360 versions of those because nobody would ever need them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
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11-01-2011, 01:14 PMFrankReynoldsYour just making things up. First off, you have no Idea what that costs to do. Second, ROI - I'm not sure that means what you think it does. We're talking about completely overhauling 2 games. Before the over haul, game 1 has 10 times the subscriber base of game 2. After the overhaul, we have 2 newly rebuilt games, game 2 has made 1/10 the profit of game 1 during the lengthy overhaul (if that), and now needs to increase sales ten fold to even come close to game 1. In order for game 2 to surpass the profits of game one and thus become the better return on investment, 2 things need to happen. Game 2 needs to A) maintain its new 300k player base for at least 2 years, and B) game 1 needs to fail entirely in those 2 years. Game 2 then needs to survive longer than game 1 would have given the same opportunity. Just looking at that you see that game 2 possesses limited potential for ROI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
All of that is completely ignoring the money that has already been thrown out the window on FFXIV. The chances of even breaking even on investments won't be realized for years to come, if ever.
Rebuilding FFXI might bring in some new players, it might not. Adding new content will likely keep the player base at about the levels that they are now. Given the fact that most people did not quit FFXI to go play FFXIV, it is likely that the 2 games could co-exist.
With the number of players that FFXI has, it wouldn't take long to recoup the costs of a rebuild, and considering that the other option is to do nothing and lose all the players, it really isn't even a risk. It's either A) slowly stop making money because the game withers and dies, or B) invest money in it and keep it making money. The only question really is: How much of an overhaul to do, in order to maximize profits.