Are We Wasting Our Time?

I think SE should give us all of the top Five most voted Jugs. This action would quil all our flames.

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Originally Posted by deces

I think SE should give us all of the top Five most voted Jugs. This action would quil all our flames.

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Not really, considering the issue has nothing to do with jugs.

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Originally Posted by Selzak

It may be enough of a problem for me to quit, which is why I'm trying to better understand it. That's a curious use of the word boycott, you don't seem to be able to comprehend things outside of the context of the U.S. government or something. This has nothing to do with the law. Do you know that SE also has the right to ban you for no reason at all? It's in the ToS. I'm sure if they randomly banned you for absolutely no reason at all you wouldn't complain though- you can't sue them, so it's ok and shouldn't be discussed!

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US Government? What? Where is that coming from? Also sueing a game company for violating their ToS? God, I really hope there is no one in this world who cares enough about this that they would attempt something like that.
Would I be happy if I got banned for no reason? no. Do they have the right to do so? yes. Would I whine on a forum? no.

What is there to understand? This treatment has been going on for nearly a decade.

The simple fact of the matter is: you pay a company to provide a service. If you are happy with the service you keep paying. If you are unhappy you can attempt to change it. When a problem has been going on for EIGHT YEARS and theres zero chance of it changing, you quit. This is logic a 7 year old understands.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Not really, considering the issue has nothing to do with jugs.

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You do understand this tread was started because of Pet jugs dont you?

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Originally Posted by deces

You do understand this tread was started because of Pet jugs dont you?

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Pet jugs were used as an example of the problem this topic addresses. It is not about pet jugs specifically.

I'm not surprised that the Dev team does not take the English speaking community seriously. This thread is a perfect example of how most of the forum posters here act. Someone make a thread with sincerity and gets trolled to hell.

I hope for the game sake they never take this community seriously with any suggestions.

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Originally Posted by deces

You do understand this tread was started because of Pet jugs dont you?

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You did read the thread, right? Like, even the first post? It's absolutely not about the jugs themselves. No one cares if they add Scorpion, or Hippo, or Walrus. The grievance that the thread is airing is that a vote from all regions was asked for, and the subsequent results from Non-JP regions were seemingly ignored.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

I'm not surprised that the Dev team does not take the English speaking community seriously. This thread is a perfect example of how most of the forum posters here act. Someone make a thread with sincerity and gets trolled to hell.

I hope for the game sake they never take this community seriously with any suggestions.

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The JP, EU, and Cthulu regions really aren't any better. The internet is the internet, people are people. That will always be true, regardless of language or geographical background.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

The JP, EU, and Cthulu regions really aren't any better. The internet is the internet, people are people. That will always be true, regardless of language or geographical background.

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OK, you'll have to give me a clue... I googled Cthulu region and all I got was fictional.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

OK, you'll have to give me a clue... I googled Cthulu region and all I got was fictional.

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That's the joke.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You did read the thread, right? Like, even the first post? It's absolutely not about the jugs themselves. No one cares if they add Scorpion, or Hippo, or Walrus. The grievance that the thread is airing is that a vote from all regions was asked for, and the subsequent results from Non-JP regions were seemingly ignored.



The JP, EU, and Cthulu regions really aren't any better. The internet is the internet, people are people. That will always be true, regardless of language or geographical background.

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And that grievance is that who ever is not getting the pet jug they wanted.

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Originally Posted by deces

And that grievance is that who ever is not getting the pet jug they wanted.

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No - the grevience is they asked for player feedback, and then ignored all feedback that wasn't from JP region. If you don't want to discuss the issue, please start a new thread about jugs. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Olor

No - the grevience is they asked for player feedback, and then ignored all feedback that wasn't from JP region. If you don't want to discuss the issue, please start a new thread about jugs. Thanks.

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I did disscus the issue tyvm. In that if they just gave us the top 5 most voted jugs the problem would be solved. and this whole notion that they dont care about what this or that block of people want is and has been obvious from the start of the game just look at this fourm, take all these questions we post every day and only one or two ever get a response in a week.. and mostly really dumber reponses to an even dumber question at that... Yeah we are all wasting our time is that shocking or something new to anyone?

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Originally Posted by Vivik

I'm not surprised that the Dev team does not take the English speaking community seriously. This thread is a perfect example of how most of the forum posters here act. Someone make a thread with sincerity and gets trolled to hell.

I hope for the game sake they never take this community seriously with any suggestions.

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No, he made a thread about stupidity. You think critiques are trolling?
"That word, I do not think it means what you think it means"

You post a controvercial topic, you will get this type of reponse no matter what "community" you are in.
But then again, Im just trolling, right?
Welcome to the Internet, where no one cares if you scream

[QUOTE=deces;214077]I did disscus the issue tyvm. In that if they just gave us the top 5 most voted jugs the problem would be solved. /QUOTE]


The problem will be solved when they don't lie to us anymore. The problem will be solved when they consider every region's input to be just as important as the JP region. You get it now?

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

That really doesn't make much sense at all but either way it was 46-2 in the EN forums and 0-20 in the JP forums. 46-22 total.

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What about in the French and German forums? Did you tally those votes up?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

You don't seem to get it. Look at the thread title. It's a simple question and as accurate as it can be. Why does it matter if they just "considered it" and discarded it, or didn't consider it and discarded it?

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Here, let me answer this: You have a chance of influencing decisions when you give your input. NOT a guarantee but a chance. Would you rather give input a hundred times and influence one out of a hundred decisions, or give input zero times and influence zero out of a hundred decisions?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I don't agree with that 'dishonest with us a lot' bit, but I do agree that in this case, it was handled wrong. Why bother asking us if they're not going to factor it in?

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What makes you think it wasn't factored in? As previously mentioned, other factors aside from player's votes may have altered the decision.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

No, he made a thread about stupidity. You think critiques are trolling?
"That word, I do not think it means what you think it means"

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I didn't say every response was trolling. But there are quite a few. Nice try at taking my words out of context to make your point though. Another "welcome to the internet" for me, right?

Also, community team response on this topic:

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Originally Posted by Camate

For those of you who voted for scorpion, I understand your disappointment. However, please realize that though this was the number one pick for EN players, this selection was based off of all regions. Also, please keep in mind that the dev. team needs to consider all aspects of potential implementation and therefore has to make the final call themselves.

Trust me when I say that your feedback is not a waste of time and you are not being ignored. I make sure that your opinions are properly conveyed to the development as best as I can and I continue to work with them, following up when necessary, to bring them updates and any new suggestions you have.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

The simple fact of the matter is: you pay a company to provide a service. If you are happy with the service you keep paying. If you are unhappy you can attempt to change it. When a problem has been going on for EIGHT YEARS and theres zero chance of it changing, you quit. This is logic a 7 year old understands.

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Oh, so you agree with the thread but you're just one of those types of people.

1. We haven't had an official forum throughout this time.
2. I see this as an opportunity (through the obvious nature of what happened) to have the problem acknowledged.
3. If you think we're just screwed and that they'll never care, why are you arguing with us so much? Do you see the irony in you posting all over this thread arguing that there's no point in us arguing?


Because everyone has been asking, and it's a very valid question:

The French forum didn't have any votes, the German thread had about 1 page of votes and I believe there were four votes for the Hippogryph. The results are the same as has been posted.


So in other words, when Camate said, "Sorry you didn't get the Scorpion guys, but we had to listen to everyone!" he was very off-base and I'm pretty disappointed about that, because I would have expected him (et tu, Bruté?) at least to have a grasp of the situation.

We still have not gotten a satisfactory response to the issue, since no one has acknowledged that there were three other jugs with more overall votes than the Hippogryph. Camate did mention that we weren't being ignored, and as far as he is concerned I believe him- sometimes it's possible to forget that 90% of the "devs" that post here are our busy community rep Camate. I just wish he'd acknowledge the problem we've brought up and answer it- which would really require him bringing it to the development team directly I think.

Apologizing that we didn't get the scorpion since it was the EN winner, pretending like it wasn't the overall winner (it was the hippogryph that only won locally and not overall- yet it was chosen), and treating us like we're just upset that we didn't get what we voted for is very disingenuous.

The issue is that the Japanese players actually got what they voted for locally without out-voting what everyone else wanted. If the Hippogryph would have won overall (and not been fourth), this thread wouldn't exist and no one would really care. Now we have to ask why it happened the way it did.

The question remains:

Why did the development team choose the Japanese favorite despite it being the fourth overall pick? What happened to the three choices that had more overall votes than the hippogryph?

People keep saying throughout this thread that there may have been other reasons that they didn't choose scorpion. Stuff like its TP moves having to be nerfed and stuff like that. My question would be, why did they let us vote on mobs that they wouldn't implement? This thread is absolutely right, why ask for our votes if they ignore it.

Well according to Cremate it was the other regions as well that were included.
Biggest whoosh ever that the guy screaming unfair treatment didnt consider the European + other forums?

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Well according to Cremate it was the other regions as well that were included.
Biggest whoosh ever that the guy screaming unfair treatment didnt consider the European + other forums?

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Apparently you aren't paying much attention.

There were four Hippogryph votes on the German forum, zero votes on the French forum. That doesn't change anything at all.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Well according to Cremate it was the other regions as well that were included.
Biggest whoosh ever that the guy screaming unfair treatment didnt consider the European + other forums?

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If you'd have actually read any of this thread you'd see that, counting ALL regions, scorpion still won and Hippogryph was 4th. So the whoosh here is over you.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

What about in the French and German forums? Did you tally those votes up?

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I just did.
French forums: 0 voted on everything. Not a single vote. Sauce: "Suggestions for the future of Bst
German forums: 5 Hippo, 3 Orobon, 2 Ironclad (lulz), 1 Scorp, 1 Chigoe, 1 Chloris, 1 Opo-opo Sauce: Which new pet should Beastmaster get?
That brings the total score accross all forum'd nations to... 47-27. Accross all nations the scorpion won by twenty votes. You can vote for whoever you want as long as you vote for us.

In mother russia, Pet charms you.

Also, yes, I just called SE communist. What of it?

What are the percentages per region? Thinking they did not go off of votes total but maybe percentage per region? Idk...

41% of germans voted Hippo, 8% of germans voted Scorpion.
0% of french voted Hippo, 0% of french voted Scorpion.
I didn't count the total number of votes for the japanese and english votes, Insaniac can answer those ones for you.

The only logical response they have is saying "We took each regions winner, and tallied the 4 winners" which would come as 2 votes for Hippo and 1 Vote for Scorp (And one vote for N/A) - However, this choice is completely rediculous concidering that the majority of the posting playerbase, by a significant margin, supported the Scorpion. They can justify this all they want but the simple fact is that one of two things happened:
They took the results from the JP Forum, and ignored everyone else.
They had already made up their minds and made a pretend poll to apease the playerbase.

Both of these options are equally appalling, and SE as a company should be ashamed of themselves. Pride is a big thing for Japanese companies, do they realise how much they are embarrasing themselves and how much credability with the western world they are losing?
Also, do you know what is happening right now? I would bet a lot of money on this: Camate and Beyhonne have made comments in their staff forum (which was admitted to exist in Tanaka's post earlier) saying "The english are unhappy" and "They have proven the results aren't accurate" but have been met with absolute silence. You've seen Camate's posts, he reads most of everything, and so doe Bayhonne, they even go as far as responding to jokes and followup questions if they have the answers. But they haven't made a single comment. Know why? Because the messengers have been given nothing by HQ. SE are burrying their heads in the sand and denying the existence of any discontent.

I can't answer that actually. I threw away the paper I tallied on =P.

I think right now they are in the "Let's just see if this goes away" phase. I wonder what kind of post count we would need to get Tanaka to pop in here and say "SO SOLLY!"

You know, I'm not too opinionated one way or another, although I do tend to get prickly when people don't listen to me or, worse, pretend to when they are actually ignoring me. But I don't mind being devil's advocate every now and then, so here goes.

Maybe SE is being truly democratic! Representation by population (a popular concept in USA I'm told). 100% of the player base that represents 2-3 times as many players / subscribers as NA voted for Hippo. Weighting and all ya know.

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Originally Posted by Lokithor

You know, I'm not too opinionated one way or another, although I do tend to get prickly when people don't listen to me or, worse, pretend to when they are actually ignoring me. But I don't mind being devil's advocate every now and then, so here goes.

Maybe SE is being truly democratic! Representation by population (a popular concept in USA I'm told). 100% of the player base that represents 2-3 times as many players / subscribers as NA voted for Hippo. Weighting and all ya know.

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In the US, the largest Portion of the vote with about 45% not voting at all, is people who chose not to vote for any of the laws / candidates. Where is my anarchy?

Based on Camate's feedback and after thinking things over myself, the only straightforward answer seems to be that they took the winner from each region and used that in considering a vote. Thus, hippo would have "won" 2:1, although technically, scorp would have also "won" in terms of physical votes by a 20 vote margin.

Why would they set it up that way? Well, let's consider this: the Japanese player base accounts for the largest playing population in the game. I think we would all agree on that. And so if you were designing a system where you'd want to poll each region's opinions, it might be fair to think, "well hey, if the Japanese vote in proportion to their playing population, things might be biased in a Japanese favor." It might be safe to assume, then, that going by the majority of votes for each region, regardless of their player base, would give each region a fair representation.

Instead, it seems to play out quite differently. The Japanese didn't vote nearly as much as English users, while the Germans voted the least, next to the French, of course, who didn't even cast a vote. Looking at things from this perspective, yes, it's a bummer that despite having over 20 more votes than hippo, scorp was still not selected. (Not because of who was chosen, but because of the circumstances, in case that isn't already crystal clear for some of the slower readers by this point). However, I hope it might quell some of this JP favoritism rage that's starting to develop. After all, it's not the Japanese who this is targeted at, if anything, it would have been at the devs.

People in English-speaking areas love to vote about things that don't matter.

Hence, American Idol and The X Factor.

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Originally Posted by MDenham

People in English-speaking areas love to vote about things that don't matter.

Hence, American Idol and The X Factor.

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Because Japan doesn't have Idols?

I'd like to address the topic title slightly humorously: Are we wasting our time?

Yes, we are. We're playing an MMO. They specifically exist to waste our time.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'd like to address the topic title slightly humorously: Are we wasting our time?

Yes, we are. We're playing an MMO. They specifically exist to waste our time.

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More like life exists to waste time before we die.

(disclaimer: I am not mocking the Japanese pronunciation, I am a student of the language and find the 'jokes' regarding their L and R pronunciations to be more accurate than a form of ridicule, and I am not saying that they cannot pronounce L if necessary)

Did you rearry think we would not be heard? We were heard! We were heard as one, with the voices of many, but just one, that's why! Because we are many voices with one face! Many voices with one vote!

But we do not forgive. We do not forget.

In short...

WE ARE REGION!

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Originally Posted by Selzak

Are we wasting our time?

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If the voidwatch post is anything to go by - then yes.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

In the US, the largest Portion of the vote with about 45% not voting at all, is people who chose not to vote for any of the laws / candidates. Where is my anarchy?

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It's on Telnet.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'd like to address the topic title slightly humorously: Are we wasting our time?

Yes, we are. We're playing an MMO. They specifically exist to waste our time.

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And Tahngarthor wins the thread. Or he would, if it was a competition of some sort.

I always found the japaneses' dificulty with S and TH (Eg Mouth and Mouse) much more funny than L and R whilst I was living out there.

live in any no-english speaking country and people have difficultys with TH and S.

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Originally Posted by Selzak

3. If you think we're just screwed and that they'll never care, why are you arguing with us so much? Do you see the irony in you posting all over this thread arguing that there's no point in us arguing?[/B]

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This was exactly what I was thinking while reading through the thread. Apparently arguing with people about a game you don't find worthy enough of arguing if they decided to ban you tomorrow for no reason is time better spent.

Can you say BS? I'm going to go out on a limb and say if a player bothers activating their account for the forums, you probably have some time invested in the game and your character (it's an mmo ffs). And that you would care.

I've seen this a lot in the forums. Players bring up well thought out, well written legitimate concerns, and they get trolled with the same responses from people that want them to conform to it's flaws/issues or the terri-bad communication between devs and the community. A healthy debate of opposing opinions is great. But telling people to shut up for voicing their opinions isn't the way to a better gaming experience.