Rebalancing and Redesigning Red mage (Suggestion)

Not necessarily on GoH but I loved doing that Idk what you talking 'bout.

I love RDM. I like casting spells and supporting the party. But, I like swinging my sword too, when it doesn't bring the party down.

The two biggest obstacles I see for RDM melee is counter-productive TP feed and lackluster non-Empyrean weaponskills. Shouldn't need a completed Empyrean for one aspect of the job to function "normally." Accuracy and Attack can be raised with food, atma if in Abyssea, etc. I melee pretty often, and against the mobs that are melee-friendly, Accuracy is barely an issue. And no, that does not include Voidwatch/HNM's. Let's not go there.

We're already getting some decent melee buffs in the next update, with more magic/enfeebling buffs on the way. Let's see what else SE has in store, and go from there. Even after we hit 99, we're still going to get updates. No need to panic, this isn't "last call" or anything.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

this isn't "last call" or anything.

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If that is the case, I now have one or more serious regrets about the Galka in a subligar whose tail I just complimented.

Please excuse me while I make a most gentlemanly exit through the unlatched bathroom window.

The "community" gave RDM and several other jobs the roles they play because, guess what? It works. Game mechanics were not designed for a RDM to be a DD job. Just because it can swing it's paper cutter around doesn't mean it will be effective or beneficial in any party situation. It's completely counter-productive to feed TP to something when you can't put out any numbers to make up for the damage you are causing to your own allies. Hell, even in most solo situations for a RDM you are mostly better off grav/dot/nuking whatever NM assuming it is a worthwhile opponent.


However...
In an EXP party (alliance) of today's standards, I'm sure a well geared melee RDM could outperform over half the garbage DD that trail along with the groups. BTW (off topic) alliance parties are stupid. You have 16 leeches and 2 people actually doing any work. How do you expect people to learn to play their respective roles properly in that fashion? That's where all these "innovative ideas" are coming from...

Grav Nuking would be legit if, most of the NMs released after RotZ and not certain Nms in scars/visions weren't immune to it. At 90 I'd rate it far slower than Rdm/Blu facetanking unless you really need shadows/it's something like JoT. Blm or Sch would most definitely be faster if it's a nuke solo.

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Originally Posted by Gokku

as long as blu exists you KNOW rdm is never getting the A- it needs

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BST and WAR have A- Axe Skill
COR and DNC have B+ Dagger Skill
MNK, SMN and WAR have B Staff Skill
RDM and WAR have B Sword Skill
BLU and WAR have B- Club Skill

I'm sorry, what?

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

BST and WAR have A- Axe Skill
COR and DNC have B+ Dagger Skill
MNK, SMN and WAR have B Staff Skill
RDM and WAR have B Sword Skill
BLU and WAR have B- Club Skill

I'm sorry, what?

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i dont get the what your trying to point out , but regardless ill direct you to pup who was promised an A- in hth and when it came down to it they were given a B+. if any skills got a raise it would be dagger / sword to B+ and healign /elemental to B/B-. i honestly dont see them making Rdm a better sword user then WAR the Duke of all things pointy.

My suggestion to rebalancing RDM. SE must first decide what they want to do with the job. Healer ? Enfeebler ? wannabe DD ? Support ? Cure V fixes the first part. Tier 3 enfeebling fixes the second part. DD traits and WS fix the third (dual wield, strong ws). aoe mages or melee buffs fix the last part (can think of aoe haste or spike or magic acc or refresh). With whm cure VI enfeebling is completely pointless so abilities that cut/increase physical or magical damage seem more interesting. I was thinking of another spell like bio that would stack (attack down) or another spell like dia that would stack.

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Originally Posted by Gokku

i honestly dont see them making Rdm a better sword user then WAR the Duke of all things pointy.

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Explain PLD and BLU then.

in before "they were made for it"

My point was, what would it matter if RDM and BLU had the same sword skill? With WAR and BST having the same Axe Skill, it's not going to make BSTs any more of a party job than WAR is. And WARs don't even use Axes anymore. So, really, why NOT give RDM an A- Sword Skill? What would it hurt?

I could agree to RDM getting B- to both Healing and Elemental, however.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

My suggestion to rebalancing RDM. SE must first decide what they want to do with the job. Healer ? Enfeebler ? wannabe DD ? Support ? Cure V fixes the first part. Tier 3 enfeebling fixes the second part. DD traits and WS fix the third (dual wield, strong ws). aoe mages or melee buffs fix the last part (can think of aoe haste or spike or magic acc or refresh). With whm cure VI enfeebling is completely pointless so abilities that cut/increase physical or magical damage seem more interesting. I was thinking of another spell like bio that would stack (attack down) or another spell like dia that would stack.

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im all for tier 3 totally love me some enfeebles lolo

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Originally Posted by Gokku

i dont get the what your trying to point out , but regardless ill direct you to pup who was promised an A- in hth and when it came down to it they were given a B+. if any skills got a raise it would be dagger / sword to B+ and healign /elemental to B/B-. i honestly dont see them making Rdm a better sword user then WAR the Duke of all things pointy.

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Erm... WAR is capable with all weapons, this doesn't mean they are masters of all weapons.

WAR are only truly masters with Great Axe and Axe.

They honestly cant justify giving rdm an A+ / A / A- in sword or dagger skill without raising holy hell from any other respective job.

A+ sword = PLD has been replaced for tanking alot of critical mobs even with shield skill RDM can null a fuck ton of dmg

A- sword = rdms now out DD and out Nuke blue and feed less tp

B+ dagger = dancers would rage and Cor

A- dagger = Thfs would rage

and god forbid

A+ dagger = cor thf dnc would lose there shit

from a realistic balance aspect with en spell and phalanx and fencer they will never give rdm the A level skill it needs to be a mainstay as a melee on the front line.

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Originally Posted by Gokku

They honestly cant justify giving rdm an A+ / A / A- in sword or dagger skill without raising holy hell from any other respective job.

A+ sword = PLD has been replaced for tanking alot of critical mobs even with shield skill RDM can null a fuck ton of dmg

A- sword = rdms now out DD and out Nuke blue and feed less tp

B+ dagger = dancers would rage and Cor

A- dagger = Thfs would rage

and god forbid

A+ dagger = cor thf dnc would lose there shit

from a realistic balance aspect with en spell and phalanx and fencer they will never give rdm the A level skill it needs to be a mainstay as a melee on the front line.

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Up blu to A sword skill, the only real bonus from sword skill now is from an accuracy standpoint.

As for B+ Dagger, I don't think I've even seen COR use a Dagger (But still they could up them with RDM), and DNC has enough traits to make them superior, they are already +35 Accuracy on traits which puts them above A+ Thieves on the base Accuracy front.

Personally I'm not for, or against a skill raise. I'd be fine with more WS's like RDM should have had in the beginning, but regardless it's impact on other jobs would be minute.

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A- sword = rdms now out DD and out Nuke blue and feed less tp

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...........lol............

right so Almace * what a rdm should have dont argue it * + enspells + bliz / thunder 5 + phalanx + enfeebles + grav / bind + composure.

rdm would wipe the floor with blu if they were put on the same tier melee wise.

Currently bluemage outheals, outmelee dd's, and outnukes RDM. A- sword skill changes NOTHING.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Currently bluemage outheals, outmelee dd's, and outnukes RDM. A- sword skill changes NOTHING.

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Yeah, yeah...we get it, already. You want to change RDMs AF armor to pink cloth and take away Sword & Dagger skill and replace it with watered-down Staff skill. And for what? To pander to a playerbase that has no imagination or originality.

I see no rational reason for S-E to not make Red Mage as advertised--a fighter-mage, for those who don't remember. Game Balance is a weak dodge since they threw that concept out the window with 2-handed weapons. How is it overpowered for a Red Mage to have quality Weapon Skills in the weapons they are most capaple of using or to be able to augment their weapons with quality enhancement spells that kick in on every swing?

This irrational fear among the developers about jobs like Red Mage outshining the flavor-of-the-month melee jobs needs to be done away with and soon.

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Originally Posted by Gokku

right so Almace * what a rdm should have dont argue it * + enspells + bliz / thunder 5 + phalanx + enfeebles + grav / bind + composure.

rdm would wipe the floor with blu if they were put on the same tier melee wise.

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erm, I hope you're not suggesting that RDM nukes and melees at the same time. Either way, How would RDM outnuke BLU in this instance? I have no intention of believing that RDM nukes would ever keep up with BLU's Physical Magic. It's not like Nukes are insta-cast, and you would have to swap into some major fast cast gear to alleviate the 10-14 seconds it takes to use Blizzard/Thunder 5. BLM has the advantage with Elemental Celerity as well as a certain degree of fast cast gear, -Jas, and higher Skill+/MAB, I don't see what your point is.

If anything, A- Sword Skill with the current gear options for RDM probably still wouldn't outdamage BLU. It may come close at points, but you can't ex

Let's NOT nuke in elemental staves now~

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Originally Posted by Zatias

Let's NOT nuke in elemental staves now~

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I know, right?

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Originally Posted by Zatias

Let's NOT nuke in elemental staves now~

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MAB/M.Acc magian swords FTW!

I kid, I kid.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Currently bluemage outheals, outmelee dd's, and outnukes RDM. A- sword skill changes NOTHING.

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I think you are little optimistic here. It reminds me of RDM outtanking pld on bulbleberny. They didn't outank any DD though which means RDM was actually a pretty bad tank. Who cares if blu outheals rdm ? Does blu have refresh2? nope. It means that you must compare what is comparable. Right now you invite a RDM if you need refresh2, otherwise you don't care. You don't invite blu because they are useless. The idea of this thread is to make RDM more usefull though as anyone guessed.

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Yeah, yeah...we get it, already. You want to change RDMs AF armor to pink cloth and take away Sword & Dagger skill and replace it with watered-down Staff skill. And for what? To pander to a playerbase that has no imagination or originality.

I see no rational reason for S-E to not make Red Mage as advertised--a fighter-mage, for those who don't remember.

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So wait, to you the player base going against what you see as SE's design does not show imagination, but sticking with the cliche 'fighter-mage' of some of the older FFs does? You didn't waste any time showing your hypocrisy there.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Currently bluemage outheals, outmelee dd's, and outnukes RDM. A- sword skill changes NOTHING.

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I get the first two, but the "out-nuke" bit doesn't really make sense to me. Unless you mean physical spells, being extremely limited by casting range and selection of elements pretty well sinks Blue Mage's battleship compared to any other job with magical damage.

If you do mean physical spells, that's a very odd comparison.

Ok so I heard all the feedback sorry it took me so long to adjust the thread been busy playing lol :p. anyways in the Original post is all the changes. enjoy

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I get the first two, but the "out-nuke" bit doesn't really make sense to me. Unless you mean physical spells, being extremely limited by casting range and selection of elements pretty well sinks Blue Mage's battleship compared to any other job with magical damage.

If you do mean physical spells, that's a very odd comparison.

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I have no idea what you're talking about, my poison breath is boss.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I get the first two, but the "out-nuke" bit doesn't really make sense to me. Unless you mean physical spells, being extremely limited by casting range and selection of elements pretty well sinks Blue Mage's battleship compared to any other job with magical damage.

If you do mean physical spells, that's a very odd comparison.

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Shock whiskars or whatever it is called can with MAB atmas do about 5000+ AOE thunder damage. I've seen BLUs kill 30 mobs instantly. I've yet to see any BLM attempt to one shot all abyssea mobs with one -ja nuke.

Of course if you just look at nuking a NM, I doubt BLU beats BLM.

-Ja and -aga spells deal reduced damage to multiple targets, CW does not... that's why blms don't attempt to one shot stuff with a single -aja/-aga spell.