Scholar adjustments: Recall and Retrace

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Originally Posted by Sotek

To sum up what I'm saying;
If they can't be asked to change one damn number in their coding to make Libra usable - though still fairly worthless - why would they bother implementing something that could be called a breakthrough?

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Because they are human, and humans don't always make sense.

Haha, don't talk about changing one number. It reminds me how it took 6 years for SE to change ward radius. One single integer to change, and it took 6 years to do it.

At least that event showed me that you might as well ask for the impossible, when the trivial is so hard to do.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

As for Modus. You're joking right? Helices don't do enough damage... Christ, be glad I got most of that ranting out the way.
Back when it actually worked, I was pulling off 200~300 damage Helices which is some godly damage for 78MP. When I added merited Modus Veritas to the mix it was even better, roughly 12% better unless my Modus Maths is off (which it damn well could be). Now I can manage 400~500 damage Helices regularly and I'm blocked from making that better because SE decided to make the ability completely worthless.
Back when MP efficiency actually mattered they were the best damage/MP nukes in the game. Even though that's a completely moot point now - apart from completely countering your out right ignorance for how great they were - they're still pretty damn good. You'd be an idiot not to supplement a one minute nuking barrage with a Helix, unless you don't want to deal an extra 2k~4k damage with virtually no MP, time or hate cost at all. In which case more power to you.

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Thank you for putting words in my mouth. I appreciate it. I've been SCH since well before the MV nerf. I know how it worked. I also never said "Helix spells aren't good", I said they "aren't a big enough deal that MV is worth caring about" as in "I don't think it needs to be fixed BEFORE anything else that is broken in the SCH department". It's obvious that my low opinion of MV means that I totally wouldn't cast a helix on anything that's going to live more than a couple minutes.

But that's ok, keep ranting about MV. Maybe they'll fix that instead of making us a contributing and worthwhile addition to any party. I enjoy being stuck playing WHM 99% of the time (No, not really).

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Originally Posted by Cymmina

Thank you for putting words in my mouth. I appreciate it. I've been SCH since well before the MV nerf. I know how it worked. I also never said "Helix spells aren't good", I said they "aren't a big enough deal that MV is worth caring about" as in "I don't think it needs to be fixed BEFORE anything else that is broken in the SCH department". It's obvious that my low opinion of MV means that I totally wouldn't cast a helix on anything that's going to live more than a couple minutes.

But that's ok, keep ranting about MV. Maybe they'll fix that instead of making us a contributing and worthwhile addition to any party. I enjoy being stuck playing WHM 99% of the time (No, not really).

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I read "Even before it was nerfed, it wasn't "good"." and obviously disagree, mainly because it was great before the nerf because back then mobs didn't live for minutes and was a great addition to a great set of spells. Sorry if I assumed anything; obviously I haven't got all my ranting out of the way.

Though you seem to have missed the point entirely, I only highlight Modus Veritas because it is the perfect example of how incompetent SE is when handling Scholar. I'm ranting equally - if not more - towards "Give Scholar Cure V" as I am saying "Fix Modus Veritas", you'll only see Modus highlighted because I have some hope SE will actually notice such an obviously broken ability and pay attention to any following or preceding suggestions, since they're obviously ignorant of anything related to Scholar. I consider giving Scholar Cure V as an equally obvious adjustment to make as fixing a broken ability, though one is obviously more simple than the other. That and I'm hardly going to highlight half a post explaining the hows and whys Scholar Cure V works.

I'm not quite sure what I'm doing wrong if you see a (fairly long) post with roughly half of it practically dedicated to shouting about White Mage and Cure V, and take the paragraph with an excessively highlighted "Fix Modus!" as the main focus of my post. If my posts were just about fixing Modus you'd have a point, but it's hardly something I'm fixated on, if anything Modus Veritas just happens to be something I'm popularly quoted on - so I probably do end up posting about it somewhat more - but again, that's just because it's so damn obvious that it's in need of an adjustment.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Haha, don't talk about changing one number. It reminds me how it took 6 years for SE to change ward radius. One single integer to change, and it took 6 years to do it.

At least that event showed me that you might as well ask for the impossible, when the trivial is so hard to do.

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Took 6 yrs to find*

Courtesy of spaghetti code.

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Originally Posted by Yugl

Took 6 yrs to find*

Courtesy of spaghetti code.

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Now, now. Don't pretend I'm dumb. All they have to do is search for the number 5!

By the way, as WHM and BLM, I personally am able to cast all transportation spells. I'd just like to do it as the job I play.

Some more responses:

About Scholar not casting area of effect spells: I concede that that is a great point. However, if it weren't for just one spell, Diaga, Red Mage would not have any AoE spells either.

About the hypothetical Berserker job casting Recall and Retrace if it were from the past: Scholar is a mage, Berserker would not be. End of that argument.

Regarding the mention of crags being sealed off in the past: Recall spells do not use crags; in fact, teleport spells don't all use a crag either. All that's required is a telepoint.

About the grimoire: I still believe, being a book of magic, it HAS to acknowledge the existence of telepoints.

About White Mages and Black Mages suddenly becoming time travel mages: I agree. WHMs and BLMs shouldn't have suddenly become time travelers. Scholars, a job that only existed in the past (except for player Scholars who have traveled to the present via maws), would be a more appropriate job to return itself to that time period.

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Originally Posted by Edyth

About the hypothetical Berserker job casting Recall and Retrace if it were from the past: Scholar is a mage, Berserker would not be. End of that argument.

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BLU is a mage, why can't they cast Teleport-Whitegate? Same point.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

BLU is a mage, why can't they cast Teleport-Whitegate? Same point.

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Because BLU casts spells they learned from monsters, and no monster can cast Teleport-Whitegate.

Stop making me defend the recall/retrace people.

PLD and DRK are also mages, so it is many jobs to feed teleports to.

lol of all the things sch needs fixing and the current cost of retrace and warp scrolls how in the world would you be asking for these spells ? i mean sure it is something nice to ask for but really that has to be so far down the list of things to ask for, for sch i have no idea why not use the time for a more constructive thread.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

Because BLU casts spells they learned from monsters, and no monster can cast Teleport-Whitegate.

Stop making me defend the recall/retrace people.

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I'm saying that the argument that because SCH came from the past, they must have the teleport spells is the weakest argument to come out of these forums since melee SMN.

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About the grimoire: I still believe, being a book of magic, it HAS to acknowledge the existence of telepoints.

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Grimoire is for Stratagems, not a list of spells. It's only a big book of magic in the sense that it appears and reappears by magic. The article for Scholar basically says Scholars aren't as proficient with magics, but use the Grimoire (Stratagems) to enhance spells. It's a big book of strategies, not magic.

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About Scholar not casting area of effect spells: I concede that that is a great point. However, if it weren't for just one spell, Diaga, Red Mage would not have any AoE spells either.

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Red Mage doesn't have Manifestation/Accession. Nor does it have Recall/Retrace spells, despite being from the past.

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About White Mages and Black Mages suddenly becoming time travel mages: I agree. WHMs and BLMs shouldn't have suddenly become time travelers. Scholars, a job that only existed in the past (except for player Scholars who have traveled to the present via maws), would be a more appropriate job to return itself to that time period.

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Actually, it's not that White/Black Mage have time travel spells. They have a continuation of their current transportation spells that sent you to way-points (HP Crystal, 'Crag' Crystals) that aren't there in the present, but if you've happened to have time traveled with a Maw they'll send you through the Maw to that point. But if you want to pretend they're actually time travel spells, Scholar still has no sense having them. If anything Summoner should get them in that case, since they're getting an avatar that controls time meaning they have more control over time than any other job in the game; which isn't hard to do when no job has such a thing.

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I'm saying that the argument that because SCH came from the past, they must have the teleport spells is the weakest argument to come out of these forums since melee SMN.

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Actually I was saying that about five pages ago (b'-')b

Seriously, there's very little to add to this thread that I haven't already said pages back. I've only continued here to draw attention to things that are actually important and that's worked to a degree - I think six likes is the most I've ever seen in the Scholar section, shame this bullshit has nine, add a dislike button SE - so I'm done here. Arguing against "Give Scholar Recall/Retrace" is completely pointless since it's never going to happen anyway.

Yeah Sotek, I kindof...um....borrowed or stole, doesn't make any difference, your idea....

Yeah, lets go with that.

It's actually quite amazing that some people don't know what an analogy is. I even said Blue-Warp was an analogy, the least people could do is google the damn word if they don't know what it means.
If I really wanted to go for "Give Blue Mage Teleport - Whitegate" I'd bring up those event buffalo that would knock you into other zones, technically it's not impossibly for SE to make a monster with a move that can hit you all the way to Whitegate and have Blue Mage learn it and cast it on party members.

Actually, I like that idea. This thread is now about getting Blue Mage this spell.

This whole thread is quite ridiculous. The last thing we need is spells that don't improve the job at all. How about spells that actually make SCH more unique rather than just make us a BLM or WHM clone.