Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

You posted while I was editing my post. lol...


Over 1000 posts now! Do we get a prize?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muse

You posted while I was editing my post. lol...


Over 1000 posts now! Do we get a prize?

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The only thing we get to do is continue the thread till it gets closed, thats our prize.. that and the continuing agony of not having the old way of paying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joslyn

The only thing we get to do is continue the thread till it gets closed, thats our prize.. that and the continuing agony of not having the old way of paying.

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I'm being pessimistically optimistic... I doubt that that SE will listen, I'm beginning to realize, deep down inside that they really don't give a flying fart... but I'm hoping that I'm proven wrong in the end. =/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NkaiMoonwatyr

I'm being pessimistically optimistic... I doubt that that SE will listen, I'm beginning to realize, deep down inside that they really don't give a flying fart... but I'm hoping that I'm proven wrong in the end. =/

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If SE's decision of keeping C&B is more important that their customers, then I guess they really don't deserve to get paid.
And, loosing customers is really what they expect in the beginning.

It will be one of those "let it pass and see what happens" incidents. First they'll notice how many cave in and do the terrible options. Then they'll check how many can't stay away and re-register a month or two later. If things go bad, they'll just add another system around christmas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neika

I'm all for them adding new payment options to give people more choices, but they shouldn't also be taking away the one payment method we've been using for the last almost 10 years that people have been used to and that people are still ok with using (i've never had an issue with PoL billing my card, even during the july billing screw up). I would be "ok" with using crysta, except that i can't buy the ultimate game cards here for it, and i'm not comfortable buying it online. And I'm sure as hell not using clickandbuy...I live in Canada and i'm not about to start paying a 5.9% convertion fee now that I'm actually paying less per month since the Canadian dollar is higher than the US dollar.

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wait wat, i'll be charge a 5.9% convertion feee? F that, i'll be cancelling my account then,

I know they wanted to use the same system as ffxiv but could this be cause they promised click and buy certain amount of people to use their service? FFXIV never entered pay mode or click and buy loses out? or is their a contract regardless of how many that use it?

I was talking with a friend who have JP account, apparently, they do not even need to transfer their account even after Aug 31 and still be able to play (given that their credit card isn't expired anytime soon).

This is so unfair... I don't like SE anymore.

So not only are my wife and my accounts not being transferred over, and thus being canceled because SE won't give us a proper way to directly pay them like they still have for their JP player-base, but 2 friends that used to play that were going to come back next month have decided to not come back due to the billing kerfuffle, and one of them was gonna start up a new account for his woman. Also, my wife's parents will be killing their accounts. So there's over $96 per month, over $1000 a year, that SE won't see (main characters and mules) just from people that I personally know.

Good job, SE. Good job. Next time, just find some bleach and drink it, it'll be a faster death for your company than pissing off your users.

Quote:

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Aug. 15, 2011 12:21 [PDT] From: FINAL FANTASY XI

ClickandBuy Maintenance (Aug. 16)



Access to ClickandBuy will be unavailable due to maintenance at the following time. During this period, users may be unable to perform the following:

- Purchase Square Enix Crysta using ClickandBuy
- Purchase Security Tokens using ClickandBuy
- Register ClickandBuy as their payment method
- Update their ClickandBuy account information

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

[Date & Time]
Aug. 16, 2011 from 20:00 to 21:30 (PDT)

[Affected Service]
Square Enix Account Management System

---

From FFXI Main Page.


Could this mean anything good?

It pisses me off that the Japanese players get special treatment.

It pisses me off more that Square refuses to address this issue publicly.

Those update notes for the next version update better be amazing, and the notes better come out in the next two weeks, or I'm letting my bill just lapse and walking away until they fix this.

I don't mind putting up with a little bit of nepotism, (or blatant racism, you can choose the word that applies more accurately) but I want to at least have something to show for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panthera

From FFXI Main Page.


Could this mean anything good?

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OMG,...............but it's only for 90 minutes so who knows. Fingers crossed though for all of you. :)

I also wonder how often this will happen IF C&B is retained.

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Originally Posted by Octaviane

OMG,...............but it's only for 90 minutes so who knows. Fingers crossed though for all of you. :)

I also wonder how often this will happen IF C&B is retained.

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I don't think C&B is being disposed of. At the very least, it will be kept as an option.

Admitted: speculation.

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Originally Posted by Panthera

I don't think C&B is being disposed of. At the very least, it will be kept as an option.

Admitted: speculation.

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What I'm thinking is that they're finding a way to make sure people don't get charged the international processing fee by their banks, which was BS anyway. I doubt there are any other substantial changes other than that. Unless perhaps they were adding more countries to the allowed list, but somehow I doubt it... >.>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panthera

I don't think C&B is being disposed of. At the very least, it will be kept as an option.

Admitted: speculation.

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Thing is, i don't think SE simply CAN just get rid C&B. I stumbled across C&B's merchant contract and saw something mentioned about a 4 year minimum contract with some pretty stiff fees if the contract is broken early. Not sure if this applies to the situation between SE and C&B, but it might explain why they aren't ditching them and running like hell, especially with all the uproar about using them. They may be stuck with them for the duration of whatever contract they entered into and so are trying to put a 'positive spin' on the partnership in the hopes that they can fool people into thinking that it really really is a good thing...

Not that any of that justifies anything, they should have done some better research beforehand. But still.. makes ya wonder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NkaiMoonwatyr

They may be stuck with them for the duration of whatever contract they entered into and so are trying to put a 'positive spin' on the partnership in the hopes that they can fool people into thinking that it really really is a good thing...

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The spin machine has been working marvelously thus far, and I don't think it can work much better.

Signed up just to scratch my mark here, not that I think it'll make any difference. SE has been messing us about for years and more than a few of my close friends in-game have quit over this. If nothing else that's hardly motivation for me to stay. Someone at SE really needs to get a grip.

eh... they actually need to keep C&B, as it does provide an alternative for those that couldn't pay with the old POL system (non-3DS cards, etc.).

What they need to do is continue the direct-pay 3DS option in addition to C&B/Crysta options so they are covering all the bases.

There is a way you can judge for yourself how reputable Clickandbuy is without having to sign up with them first or believe any second hand information on forums or other websites (which I'm not doubting is correct!). Just go to their website and go to the 'shopping' tab. I didn't count but I must have gone to the websites of at least 15 of the companies listed, and only one of them actually accepted Clickandbuy as a payment method. Even Absolute Poker, listed on the Clickandbuy site, do not appear to accept Clickandbuy as a payment mechanism when then seem to accept just about every other payment mechanism. Clickandbuy is not on the list:
http://www.absolutepoker.eu/poker-mo...-funds-account

So, either Clickandbuy are just plain lying about having arrangements with these companies, or they had an arrangement but the company cancelled it for some reason (we can all guess why) and Clickandbuy haven't updated their site.

If this was the case with just one or two companies I could understand it, but it's most of them from what I can see!

That alone seals the deal for me as far as Clickandbuy are concerned, and I most defintely will not be using them.

There is a huge post about this on the FFXIV forums too, the devs are also ignoring it there.

Intresting read.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Payment-System

To everyone who refuses to update their payment using the provided methods (myself included), there are probably some things you should know. SE will not offer another payment option by the end of the month. Depending on how this goes for them, they might never offer another payment option. Giving us choices costs them money, so they need to justify their costs. That's just good business. Angry posts on the internet prove nothing. In fact, many of the people who claim to be quitting may be lying and you'd have no way of knowing. As such, SE will wait until after the end of the month. Once they find out how many people refused to update payment out of protest instead of just ignorance over the transfer, then they will make a decision as to whether or not it is in their best interest to seek new options.

So ultimately what I'm getting at here is: If you want SE to offer you alternate methods, you have to be willing to quit FFXI for several months. Holding out until the last minute will not do the trick. Find some other games you've been wanting to play and occupy your time with them (might I suggest Skyrim? It's coming in November.) Heck, maybe even get a temp job to fill the time and make some extra money while you protest these changes. But don't expect to get what you want just because you made an angry post on the internet. They're playing hard ball. You have to show them you mean it.

Don't worry, it won't be all that hard to catch up on everything if/when you come back. FFXI is still on easy mode, and content from patches has been pretty low lately. But if you want changes, make the decision now that you're quitting for 3+ months.

Hey all, I have no intention on participating in ClicknBuy what so ever and I am not willing to make the transfer and take such an unreasonable risk with them. I have a couple questions though for anyone who knows since I haven't initiated the transfer;

1. My POL account is linked to SE management system (I did this around the time XIV was released and to set up my token, thats all I've done) In order to discontinue XI's service do I need to cancel my IDs and unlink the account or just cancel the IDs normally?

2. I haven't checked the billing page in PlayOnline viewer recently, but is there a way to remove my information from there when I cancel my service? Although SE already has it, i'd rather not keep it in there in case some automatic transfer to click and buy happens at the end of the month.

3. What happens if I don't transfer at all?

If you don't transfer and on a NA/EU account, FFXI service will just get deactivated, just like how your credit card expired and the payment could not go thru when you were on POL. When you are ready, you can manually go into SEAM to reactive it while choose another payment method, unfortunately, this time there wouldn't be direct CC payment like the JP. Don't worry, your character data will still be there.

Me and a couple of my friends will just let our accounts deactivate on sept 1st, and take a break.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Find some other games you've been wanting to play and occupy your time with them (might I suggest Skyrim? It's coming in November.)

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That's what I intend to be doing, as there are a few coming out that I'm particularly interested in (Warhammer 40k Space Marine, Assassin's Creed Revelations (I still need to finish ACII and ACB >.<) and Saints Row The Third... while also rebuilding my save files for Mass Effect 3 in March next year) as well as other games I've left by the wayside. Time to dust off the Dreamcast/PS2/SNES/Saturn etc methinx.

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Don't worry, it won't be all that hard to catch up on everything if/when you come back. FFXI is still on easy mode, and content from patches has been pretty low lately. But if you want changes, make the decision now that you're quitting for 3+ months.

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SE will eventually do something about this, after all... the changes in XIV SE did only happened after people complained for awhile. As FFXI is one of the only sources for regular revenue for SE, they'd be foolish to not add additional payment options alongside clickandbuy/crysta and playspan/gamer cards.

Still... even if SE doesn't do it, there are plenty of other MMO's available, so for those who are raging etc about this, may want to look at the alternatives. Myself, Star Wars The Old Republic is looking quite appealing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

To everyone who refuses to update their payment using the provided methods (myself included), there are probably some things you should know. SE will not offer another payment option by the end of the month.

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You state this as if it's a fact, when it's merely speculation. They still have two weeks from tomorrow before X-Day. There's still time, and anything can happen. I'm going to bet that some damage has already been caused, and they've already lost a little money here and there for those who have lost faith already.

I see what you're trying to do. You're saying that words are not enough, and that only action can solve this. I say we should keep posting away like this until X-Day. Bluffs can win poker games, words can move men to action. For Square-Enix, it's not really a question of what are the odds they're going to win, but rather, can they afford to lose?

And to be honest, some people are bluffing. Saying that isn't something that SE doesn't already know anyway. The question for them is, how many? If the majority weren't, could FFXI still be sufficiently profitable?

It may come down to just what you say. We'll have to stick to our guns, and go a month--or more-- for SE to see things from our side.

I for one am not bluffing. Go ahead, call it in two weeks and see what happens. While I still want to play, I am not going to go to any and all lengths to, FFXI seems passed its prime. I won't be going to other MMOs. I'm here because it was Final Fantasy, not because it was an MMO.

This is a Formus for "gamers" to voice their opinions about "Final Fantasy XI Online" to the "developers":

[...]
These forums are a venue for players of FINAL FANTASY XI to communicate with each other and submit feedback on the game, as well as being a centralized location for the development and operations teams to gather user suggestions concerning current and future game content.
[...]

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/67


The concerns are addressed to the wrong employees of SE.
The concerns are addressed to the Development Team where they should be addressed to the Customer Service.

The impact would be the same as if the very same comments were sent to the Customer Service using the following "Suggestions & Feedback" form:

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&p=0&fo=41


The best developers could do regarding threads related to this topic is to refer the comments to Customer Service.
Also hoping that developers don't pay to much attention to those threads and focus more on how to make FFXI a better game (Read: ... and focus more on the job they are paid for.)


If it's to verbalize opinions... alright... exert the freedom of expression.

If it's to resolve the issue:
[...]
Users can select from over 85 different payment methods (although the specific details will differ from country to country).
[...]

Source: http://www.square-enix.com/na/accoun...ta/charge.html


Hmmmm! Impressive!
Well, if ClickandBuy International Limited doesn't fulfilled your needs, try PlaySpan Inc then.

@Madjam

Considering how they're inundated with new threads and posts everyday, I'm sure someone somewhere has let the higher-ups know that we're less than enthused about Click'n'fail. While all of what you said may be true, the community representatives have responded once--if not twice-- in this very thread. In other words, I don't think the reps themselves are concerned about that either, or they would have moved everything weeks ago, rather than allowing a single threads to remain in the wrong place for weeks, letting it gather 1000 replies.

I don't think where we post matters very much. Mods can sort out what threads go where, and even if they tried, moving threads around would be a full time job at this rate.

I think it's a bit late in the game to worry about a disorderly forum. People are more interested in the billing issue than the game itself! In two weeks, it won't matter anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Madjam

If it's to resolve the issue:
[...]
Users can select from over 85 different payment methods (although the specific details will differ from country to country).
[...]

Source: http://www.square-enix.com/na/accoun...ta/charge.html


Hmmmm! Impressive!
Well, if ClickandBuy International Limited doesn't fulfilled your needs, try PlaySpan Inc then.

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The problem is, neither ClickandBuy nor Playspan are available in many countries, mine included. Even for those people in the countries where the current options are available, people don't want to have to pay more than their monthly fee because of "international processing fees" from C&B or their bank, or by buying Crysta in bulk amounts.

I have already allowed one of my accounts to lapse, my mule account which I transferred before the end of July but was unable to pay for. My other 2 accounts will lapse at the end of this month, and I plan to leave them inactive for as long as it takes for more payment options to be added. $60 a month will be lost to SE from me alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panthera

You state this as if it's a fact, when it's merely speculation. They still have two weeks from tomorrow before X-Day. There's still time, and anything can happen. I'm going to bet that some damage has already been caused, and they've already lost a little money here and there for those who have lost faith already.

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You are completely correct, and I was using hyperbole there. The truth is I cannot predict the future with 100% accuracy. However, I feel it is important that everyone who wishes for change to be willing to accept this. If I'm wrong, we're all happy, we get a better payment option and we don't have to quit, but you're completely prepared for the likely scenario that nothing will change in time. If you expect them to change something before the end of the month, you are more likely to break down and use CnB when proven wrong.

So yes, I can't prove it, but I think we should all expect (if not believe) it.

Quote:

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I see what you're trying to do. You're saying that words are not enough, and that only action can solve this. I say we should keep posting away like this until X-Day. Bluffs can win poker games, words can move men to action. For Square-Enix, it's not really a question of what are the odds they're going to win, but rather, can they afford to lose?

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Exactly correct. I'm fairly certain when they were going into this, they already expected losses. However, just as I cannot predict the future with 100% certainty, they cannot be certain how heavy those losses will be. About a week after the month ends, they'll know. If enough players protest the change like I will, perhaps they'll take the necessary steps to get us back ingame, or maybe they'll just take it in stride, who knows?

Quote:

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It may come down to just what you say. We'll have to stick to our guns, and go a month--or more-- for SE to see things from our side.

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Yes, and even then, it may have all been for naught. SE might lose 5,000 accounts and still decide it's an acceptable loss, leaving us protesting something that will never change. And then I have to decide exactly how long I am willing to stick to my guns.

Quote:

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I for one am not bluffing. Go ahead, call it in two weeks and see what happens. While I still want to play, I am not going to go to any and all lengths to, FFXI seems passed its prime. I won't be going to other MMOs. I'm here because it was Final Fantasy, not because it was an MMO.

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Bravo, sir. I agree whole-heartedly with your post.

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Originally Posted by Revanchist

...SE will eventually do something about this, after all... the changes in XIV SE did only happened after people complained for awhile...

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But this time is different, the JP weren't complaining about click and buy. SE will need to force the JP to use Click and Buy before SE might actually do something sooner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niyariko

But this time is different, the JP weren't complaining about click and buy. SE will need to force the JP to use Click and Buy before SE might actually do something sooner.

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We all know SE won't force the JP playerbase to use Clickandbuy... only the non JP's have to do that. Still... all we can do is hope that the amount of people who can't/don't want to use either of the new payment options, the loss of income from all the locked accounts, changes SE's mind...

Somehow I doubt it though...

im currently having an argument with click'n'buy or what everyou want to call them... theyve already blocked my account !.. saying that the date of birth i entered was incorrect.. (even though its not) and they are at this time refusing to unblock my account !... whats all that about..

my details are correct, my passwords are correct, my security questions are correct.. but because there system says its not im blocked !!!

well EFF YOU click'n'sh**e thanks for nothing !

hoping i can speak to somebody higher up there, if there is such a person !.. get this mess sorted out !..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maacha

The problem is, neither ClickandBuy nor Playspan are available in many countries, mine included. Even for those people in the countries where the current options are available, people don't want to have to pay more than their monthly fee because of "international processing fees" from C&B or their bank, or by buying Crysta in bulk amounts.

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Then again...
Source: https://developer.playspan.com/devel...xt/payments.do

In the following tabs:
- Credit / Debit Cards
- Phone and Mobile
- Prepaid, Cash & E-Wallets.

Under the following colum:
- Supported Countries

Seeking for payment methods saying Global or Globally might reveal certain options available.

Global means all 204 countries on this world...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states


Please see the following: http://www.playspan.com/pcgames
SE isn't the only video game company to rely on that method to get paid.


Also, please consult the following documents, there might have some answers to some questions...:

- Press Release for Fiscal Year Ended March 31, 2011
Source: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/11q4release.pdf

- Results Briefing Session for the Fiscal Year ended March 31, 2011
Source: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/11q4slides.pdf

[...]Appendix: Change in Units Sold by Region[...]
Read the colum 1212E for Asia, Etc. => 0.00

Aftermath... They'll be doing better than in 2004...


Question:
If the community wants to get ride of PS2 platform to support FFXI Online, wouldn't it be the first logical move from SE to get ride of the PlayOnline payment system which PS2 is bound to?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Madjam

Then again...
Source: https://developer.playspan.com/devel...xt/payments.do

In the following tabs:
- Credit / Debit Cards
- Phone and Mobile
- Prepaid, Cash & E-Wallets.

Under the following colum:
- Supported Countries

Seeking for payment methods saying Global or Globally might reveal certain options available.

Global means all 204 countries on this world...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states


Please see the following: http://www.playspan.com/pcgames
SE isn't the only video game company to rely on that method to get paid.


Also, please consult the following documents, there might have some answers to some questions...:

- Press Release for Fiscal Year Ended March 31, 2011
Source: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/11q4release.pdf

- Results Briefing Session for the Fiscal Year ended March 31, 2011
Source: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/11q4slides.pdf

[...]Appendix: Change in Units Sold by Region[...]
Read the colum 1212E for Asia, Etc. => 0.00

Aftermath... They'll be doing better than in 2004...

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The gamer cards for PlaySpan aren't available for purchase in every country yet, and Crysta isn't legally accepted as a viable payment option in every country either.

Quote:

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Question:
If the community wants to get ride of PS2 platform to support FFXI Online, wouldn't it be the first logical move from SE to get ride of the PlayOnline payment system which PS2 is bound to?

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Then that'd kill the Xbox 360 version as that uses POL as a springboard into playing FFXI... so SE wanting to get rid of it, will affect PS2 and Xbox 360 gamers.

POL is more than just a billing system--it's highly integrated into the shell of FFXI, so they can't just get rid of it yet. Certain portions of the shell would have to be recoded to replace the same functions it provides to support various features in the game (like messaging and such).

They don't have to keep the POL bililng system to accept the credit cards either, as evidenced by them not using POL to store and process CC payments for the JP players through the new SE ID system.

And that is the whole point--it's a web based solution, a large part of which is provided by the CC processor. You tell them what type of pages you are using (.asp, .do/.jsp, etc.) and they give you the code to paste into your pages. You stitch it in, edit it to include your account and server specific info, set the test flags--and start making dummy payments to test it. When you're ready to accept payment, clear the test flags and go live.

They've already done all of this for the JP Region's system and pages....they've just elected to not do it for anyone else.

As far as Billing Update Notes (which they did say they'd do), today was the last day I was expecting them to do anything, while still providing us with enough time (2 weeks) to go through the procedure. Anything after today is pushing it to the last minute--if they do anything that actually fixes the problem at all. After today, I think we have the right to really start getting anxious, and grow more anxious about it each day until the end.

They said some time ago they would try and make it easier. I would just like to know when that will happen, and what they'll do.

I think we should be kept informed not just about the direction of the game, but about our relationship to them as customers of Square-Enix. If we write 1000 posts in one thread, as well as 4 dozen other threads, and they say,"we'll try and make it easier," we need to know how and when before we experience a service interruption.

I wish they'd just said,"We understand that some of our players are uncomfortable with the changes to the billing process. If you choose to discontinue playing for any reason, we respect that decision, and hope you have enjoyed your time in Vana 'diel. Please understand that the changes were unavoidable, and we deeply regret that some may be unable to continue to play using Chrysta. We intend to use the payment options as presented, as they are the ways in which we are best able to continue providing service to our customers."

That's the best I can do. It's direct, doesn't offer false hope, is apologetic to those who must be left behind, respectful to those who decide to leave, and provides reason as to why everything changed. There's a difference between walking away on good terms, and stalking off, never buying another FF game again.

My content ID's are cancelled by SE, guess this is it then :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ExeorRag

My content ID's are cancelled by SE, guess this is it then :(

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Good to know that people can still post even if their IDs are cancelled, I guess we can continue this debate past Sept 1st when alot of other people's accounts expire.

I think anyone can just create a SEAM account and make post, even they never register with any SE products. (edit: I was wrong, SE don't want anyone to talk about their game unless you are current customer) I guess i'll complain in ffxiv forum past aug 31.

One way to make a successful business is to provide ways of easy payment to customers, so they can pay them even blindfolded. SE has failed acknowledging this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maacha

Good to know that people can still post even if their IDs are cancelled, I guess we can continue this debate past Sept 1st when alot of other people's accounts expire.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niyariko

I think anyone can just create a SEAM account and make post, even they never register with any SE products.

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No. It just takes a while to turn off. SE cancelled my IDs on July 30, and I was able to post until like August 3 (not exactly sure). Then I could still log into my SE Account, but it said I have no active Content IDs to post with. I guess it's the same as when they added the character selection thing, where you had to pick a character to be able to post. And without Content ID, no character, can't post. I reactivated my account on the 13th, after I got a new credit card that ClickandBuy would accept.

So I guess after September 3 no one will be complaining anymore, at least not on here. SE might take that as a sign that it's all ok now. It would fit their logic.