New 2-hour Abilities

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Fantod Back Heel Fantod Back Heel Fantod Back Heel Fantod Back Heel Fantod Back Heel Fantod Back Heel Fantod Back Heel Fantod Back Heel Fantod Back Heel.

I like the sound of that.

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I'm interested in seeing how much Enmity is generated when using the ability and if strategic use of Snarl will be required to not get smashed by an angry NM. Also wondering if this ability will give Nazuna more trolling potential, looking forward to spamming Sheep Song.

E: Fargann can spam Suction, possible alternative to chain stuns. This ability gets better and better.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Why would you spend a jug on Back Heel? Assuming this will spend all TP upon execution and force Leave > Call Beast for more TP, you'd probably be better off with: Purulent Ooze > Stank Breath > Fantod > Fantod etc.

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Please re-read Camate's explanation post.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Why would you spend a jug on Back Heel? Assuming this will spend all TP upon execution and force Leave > Call Beast for more TP, you'd probably be better off with: Purulent Ooze > Stank Breath > Fantod > Fantod etc.

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According the most recent post, a new pet isn't needed to obtain 300 TP:

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Originally Posted by Camate

Let me clarify a bit more on how this ability will work…

• When you use Charm or Call Beast, your pet will instantly receive 300 TP, and it will remain at 300 TP while the effect is active and will not decrease.
• The recast timers for both Sic and Ready will become 0 while the effect is active.
• Charges will be set to the maximum, and while the effect is active they will not be consumed even when using Sic or Ready.

With that said, if you don’t want to change your pet to use different abilities, it will be possible to use abilities back to back even on a single pet.

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The last part is the big part, literally and figuratively in this case, since it means you can use Suction or Whirl Claws over and over more easily or rotate Fantod and Backheel.

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Finally, there was a request to make it so this new special ability steals a beneficial effect as well as deals major damage. While this is technically possible, the current effect makes it so the steal is 100% accurate. If we were to tack on the damage effect as well, we would have to change it so there is a possibility of a miss. Also, even if we were to add a damage effect it would not be a very high value.

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Yeah, don't try to mix in damage complications with a utility ability like this. I think we would much rather it steal more than one effect than any kind gimicky weak damage.

Even if, only when not stealing an SP ability....say...give it the ability to steal three enhancement effects? That way its slightly more powerful than aurasteal (can steal 2 debuffs currently) and can be useful in situations where no stealable SP1 ability is present. Which will be the majority of the time.

As is, SP2 sounds cool, but doesn't really seem all that useful to me. There will be a very select few situations where I'm sure it will be quite useful, but I'm more concerned with the fact that the majority of SP1 abilities that a mob uses are instant, and this ability will be powerless to counter.

And you have chosen to limit this ability to SP1 abilities for some reaosn? So theres that limitation.

Even if you just allow SP2 to steal mutliple enhancements in the abscence of an SP1 ability to steal would make this ability useful a lot more frequently.

As it stands there are actually very few instances SP2 would be actually valuable strategically imo.

All right, now we're talking. 60 seconds of your pet going nuts? Awesome. I take it you still have to dismiss and recall your current pet to grant the effect though?

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

According the most recent post, a new pet isn't needed to obtain 300 TP:



The last part is the big part, literally and figuratively in this case, since it means you can use Suction or Whirl Claws over and over more easily or rotate Fantod and Backheel.

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Thanks for clarifying. It's sounding much more wallet friendly than before.

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Originally Posted by Leonardus

All right, now we're talking. 60 seconds of your pet going nuts? Awesome. I take it you still have to dismiss and recall your current pet to grant the effect though?

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There is no need to leave your pet.

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Originally Posted by Xilk

There is no need to leave your pet.

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"When you use Charm or Call Beast" was where I was wondering. As in, if you already have a pet up, then use the SP. You'd have to leave your current pet in order to "use Call Beast" to activate the SP effect? (Where then you could spam moves on a single pet)

I'd prefer the SP to act retroactively and just take effect on whatever you have out at the moment, so you could (for example), retain your 10% Familiar haste.

A big thank you for the developer for actually taking our comments and suggestions to heart and made Bstmaster JA very useful and working as intended. As well as coming up with JA for Thief and PLD that works good. Congratulations again for a job well done. Perhaps you could show some love for RDM?

Can Drk get its fixes, new SP need to effect weaponskills, BW needs and help badly, and these two SPs need to have the ability to be activate together

Know what would be even better? If the pet tp moves skillchained like blu's 2hr!
OMG what a concept!

These three SP abilities sound very good. This is close to the excitement level I felt when Embrava was first introduced on the test server and SE continued to buff it.

With that in mind, I'll enjoy these new SP abilities while I can.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

These three abilities are definitely in the "win" column.

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Agree with the exception of THF, still feel like thats in the meh category and why the heck would the addition of damage to the ability mean it HAS to have the chance to miss? right now of jobs that are meant to melee as a primary source of damage it's not inaccurate to state that THF is damn near scraping the bottom.

Also the fact that you stated the BST SP2 can effect charmed mobs and considering there are few to no post 75 content charm-able monsters will SoA include a variety of charm-able mobs (speaking of which GoV mobs charm-able?)

P.S. would seem at least a few peeps are interested in the way THF SP2 is now, honestly THF needs about the same attention as RDM and the emity system need though...

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Originally Posted by Nala

Also the fact that you stated the BST SP2 can effect charmed mobs and considering there are few to no post 75 content charm-able monsters will SoA include a variety of charm-able mobs (speaking of which GoV mobs charm-able

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Most places outside abyssea which actually received changes/additions to the mob configurations have high level mobs which are charmable.
There is just little practical use for them.

SO RDM IS STILL GETTING NOTHING?

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Originally Posted by Camate

[*]Beastmaster
Let me clarify a bit more on how this ability will work…

• When you use Charm or Call Beast, your pet will instantly receive 300 TP, and it will remain at 300 TP while the effect is active and will not decrease.
• The recast timers for both Sic and Ready will become 0 while the effect is active.
• Charges will be set to the maximum, and while the effect is active they will not be consumed even when using Sic or Ready.

With that said, if you don’t want to change your pet to use different abilities, it will be possible to use abilities back to back even on a single pet.[/list]

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Even the no-recast part alone would be a great ability for PUP... able to use maneuvers with no recast and automaton being able to reuse HP, MP or TP gain abilities instantly (if maneuvers are reapplied.)

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

SO RDM IS STILL GETTING NOTHING?

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Yet, tbh they just gave good news, I hope in a few days we will hear about our double potency Enhancing Magic coming to us.

They won't. Just like they didn't listen to us for nyzul and legion. I'm quitting.

Just making this post to display my satisfaction with the abilities presented in Camate's last post.

Thank you, developers, you've hit the nail on the head this time. The THF and BST abilities are very useful and open up for a lot of new strategies in lots of events, both old and new. I'm not too familiar with PLD, but that ability seems useful too, if it is as potent as you make it sound like.

Keep up the good work, and if you keep these three abilities in mind when you look into the new RDM ability, I think RDM's new Special will turn out well too.

Im happy about the Thf and Bst ones! That about the Jobs i play and its about 2 out of 4!
Congratultions to the Dev Team: You got these right! Thank you!
Im not a Pld but i sounds Good and promising.
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Im still not to happy with the Dnc one tho... Hope this will change...
(in like supporting the Pt... be it Double potency and duration of Sambas)

As for Pup well it ain't bad but... looking at Bst... i feel left out XD
Not asking for 3 minute Ironclad or something,
but you coulda came up with something better than old Job 2hs.
as thu... Benediction is kinda nice^^

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Aura Steal stealing enemy SP abilities? No, this is definitely not how Aura Steal should have been. I know it's just one detail, but it's a very important one. This is better than most jobs' SP abilities (old and new), very strategic and useful. This on a 5min timer would be broken. You could have Hundred Fists up all the time in Dynamis, or Invisible, or Perfect Dodge, Meikyo Shusui, etc.

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That's like maybe 20-30 more coins per run? I know there are a few fights where mobs would have to be resistant / immune to the effect to maintain balance, but lets be honest. Most fights where this would matter are less than 5 minutes long anyways.

Think about what they are proposing. All jobs get a 2 hour... yours gets a chance at stealing a 2 hour. If your group needs to block an SP ability during a fight, are they going to bring a job that can pop an ability before the fight and stay out of range the whole time thus guaranteeing that it works? or a job that has to run into range and stay alive until the mob pops an SP and then hopefully not be stunned / paralyzed etc. when it does? Also keep in mind that you can only block / steal one SP ability, while chain stun / shock squall / PD etc. have a duration that can last through multiple SPs on mobs that do that sort of thing.

You guys seriously gotta aim higher. If you need $5, you don't ask for $2. You ask for $10.

Sorry but with them giving us alot of shit left and right most of the time, the THF one is badass by most standards, especially when you think about Perfect Dodge or the other one we were to get, which was Trick Attack 2.0.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

That's like maybe 20-30 more coins per run? I know there are a few fights where mobs would have to be resistant / immune to the effect to maintain balance, but lets be honest. Most fights where this would matter are less than 5 minutes long anyways.

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It's not about the yield at all, it's about disabling almost all mobs' SP abilities with a regular THF ability. That doesn't sound too balanced. With that you'd remove almost all enemy SP abilities from the picture when devising strategies. SP abilities can't get paralyzed, you don't have to stay engaged the whole time, Flee > run in > steal SP ability takes seconds and since it's 100% accuracy you can do it in a full PDT/MDT set, depending on the mob. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. It would make dealing with all Gallus you do in one Hall of Mul run trivial, for example.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

You guys seriously gotta aim higher. If you need $5, you don't ask for $2. You ask for $10.

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I honestly do feel it's the other way around. It's not exactly what I wanted (I was hoping for something more solo or damage oriented), but it's still great in its own right. In fact, now I wouldn't wanna exchange it for 30s worth of forced Triple Attack, which already sounded pretty badass.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Think about what they are proposing. All jobs get a 2 hour... yours gets a chance at stealing a 2 hour. If your group needs to block an SP ability during a fight, are they going to bring a job that can pop an ability before the fight and stay out of range the whole time thus guaranteeing that it works? or a job that has to run into range and stay alive until the mob pops an SP and then hopefully not be stunned / paralyzed etc. when it does? Also keep in mind that you can only block / steal one SP ability, while chain stun / shock squall / PD etc. have a duration that can last through multiple SPs on mobs that do that sort of thing.

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You're right that the new new Thief ability isn't that profoundly potent, and that damage or more stolen buffs could be added to it with no effect whatsoever on balance.

The important thing is that the new Thief SP will have strategic value. This is a huge step up over the Eagle-Eye-Shot-esque absurdity that loomed over Thief before, which would never have been used in the same sentence as "Shock Squall" or "Perfect Defense" in any context. Being in that category, even as a lesser option in most cases, is a good thing.

The ability has value and use and if there are still plans for merits towards SPs, that value can be built on further. Actually, I'd love to hear if that's still planned given all the changes that have taken place. My pessimist senses are tingling.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

SO RDM IS STILL GETTING NOTHING?

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Their thinking how to make it worse then it currently is. They have to think really really hard, it may take them a couple of months to come up with one.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Their thinking how to make it worse then it currently is. They have to think really really hard, it may take them a couple of months to come up with one.

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They'll call the guy who made evoliths back in for a consult next month, because the insane asylum lets people go home for Christmas anyway, and he will come up with a real whopper:

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Super-Convert: Converts all HP to MP, increasing MP bar above maximum for 120 second. Does not convert MP to HP.

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Sadly, Super Convert would still be useful if you had a Mythic with Chain Spell. Of course, Super Convert wouldn't have to stack with Mythic. So SE win again.

I guess they'll just give us a SP ability called 'lip service'. When you activate it, a long audio file will play for just the RDM.
"RDM is a powerful job. We didn't think that for the sake of balance that you should be given a 2nd SP ability." Then loop it 8 times so that it sinks in to the player. After only a couple of uses, we will obviously believe that they are justified in their adjustments. Also, as a side benefit to the devs, they don't have to take the time to delete all the code corresponding to RDM. We will just ignore it's existence. Excellent.

That is the game, isn't it? See how much abuse RDMs are willing to take? See how undesirable you can make a previously popular job? Do you win when almost everyone stops playing RDM, when no one plays RDM at all, or when we all block out the existence of the job?

Happy Thanksgiving. We appreciate Temper. Seriously, what else has the development team done for RDM besides that since 75? Gains that don't stack with Boosts? Enhancing magic that doesn't scale in a realistic manner? Enfeebling being completely unreliable? SHIELD MASTERY? How about that new SP ability?

Seriously, why was something so obviously terrible even allowed to see the light of day on the forums? Is demoralizing and discriminating against RDM that fun?

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Sadly, Super Convert would still be useful if you had a Mythic with Chain Spell. Of course, Super Convert wouldn't have to stack with Mythic. So SE win again.

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Maybe I didn't word it right. I wanted to make it really clear that using the job ability would reduce your HP to 0 and kill you.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

It's not about the yield at all, it's about disabling almost all mobs' SP abilities with a regular THF ability. That doesn't sound too balanced. With that you'd remove almost all enemy SP abilities from the picture when devising strategies. SP abilities can't get paralyzed, you don't have to stay engaged the whole time, Flee > run in > steal SP ability takes seconds and since it's 100% accuracy you can do it in a full PDT/MDT set, depending on the mob. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. It would make dealing with all Gallus you do in one Hall of Mul run trivial, for example.

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It's useless for basically anything. It's never going to make people stop using PD or shock squall. Most of the mob's SP are not dangerous. The only one would be chainspell, but really it's completely limited and please don't make a JA good or bad based on it's usability in legion, which nobody does because the rewards are subpar (actually assuming that this would change anything - feint is game breaking in legion but nobody uses it..).

So... I'm assuming the reps name is Gilderan or something close like that. But. He spells out "Invisible" every single time he posts the new PUP ability instead of Invincible. Not sure if he's doing it to see if we catch it. But it throws me way off.

Oh but you're forgetting one important thing, Arcon. Any content that Markovchain doesn't do and any abilities not native to his main jobs are completely irrelevant to the entire game. I thought you knew this by now!

Markov? I thought you said you were rage-quitting? why are you still here?

Most of the SP availiable for thf to steal are useless to the thf. Can we get at least some sort of buff to the thf when stealing a "useless" SP? Manafont is worthless to thf, Sam SP is actually detrimental to thf unless the thf had 300tp at that exact moment which they shouldn't be stupid enough to hold in the first place, drg mobs dont have spirit surge as far as I know,drk is just lulzy although you're gonna probably think it's overpowered like you mistakenly claim Aura steal is uber powerful,chainspell is actually good enough since when it's active it's possible to hurt alot of people so the utility of stealing it is more than enough, a large chunk of monsters wont be affected by this due to instant JA usage and Aura steal can take two buffs at once thanks to relic+2 so the new SP arguably lacks some overall utility/power. Would it be too much to ask to allow more buffs to be stolen at a time for this since it does have a long timer on it after all?

There's also a strong suspicion that all of the new content is going to give the monsters the new SP's which means the JA might be effectively useless against many monsters that are a part of new content.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Oh but you're forgetting one important thing, Arcon. Any content that Markovchain doesn't do and any abilities not native to his main jobs are completely irrelevant to the entire game. I thought you knew this by now!

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I do, and I wasn't talking to him. I'm neither brain damaged nor drunk enough for that.

They keep saying Invisible for probably the same reason they kept saying Araise a while back (whatever that is)

Eventually they will be like "oh yeah, obviously we meant Arise/Invincible, herpderp"

Please + this post if you aggree.

Although the New Bst SP 2 ability is a really great ability, There is a small change which would be very good.

Currently, the special ability does NOT reset Call Beast Recast timer.
What it does is prevent the recast timers from activating at all.
This is just right for spamming the moves AFTER you use the special ability, but there is a scenario which will cause this special ability to be largely wasted.

I use Call Beast and right away use the special ability. I will still be able to use many ready moves, but I will NOT be able to change to another Called Beast. The call beast timer is Down, and it will not be back until long after the special ability has expired.


It would be best if using the SP2 for bst also reset the timers when you use it.

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Originally Posted by Xilk

Currently, the special ability does NOT reset Call Beast Recast timer.
What it does is prevent the recast timers from activating at all.

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This may be just a mistake or oversight on their part, as even the new SMN SP ability resets the BP delay timer, as far as I understand.

It also restores the SMNs MP, which is another similar problem.

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Originally Posted by Khajit

Most of the SP availiable for thf to steal are useless to the thf. Can we get at least some sort of buff to the thf when stealing a "useless" SP? Manafont is worthless to thf, Sam SP is actually detrimental to thf unless the thf had 300tp at that exact moment which they shouldn't be stupid enough to hold in the first place, drg mobs dont have spirit surge as far as I know,drk is just lulzy although you're gonna probably think it's overpowered like you mistakenly claim Aura steal is uber powerful,chainspell is actually good enough since when it's active it's possible to hurt alot of people so the utility of stealing it is more than enough, a large chunk of monsters wont be affected by this due to instant JA usage and Aura steal can take two buffs at once thanks to relic+2 so the new SP arguably lacks some overall utility/power. Would it be too much to ask to allow more buffs to be stolen at a time for this since it does have a long timer on it after all?

There's also a strong suspicion that all of the new content is going to give the monsters the new SP's which means the JA might be effectively useless against many monsters that are a part of new content.

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Exactly. This ability is going to end up being like hide. It'll be nice to pop it once in a while if it happens to be up, but it's not going to change how any content is done at all.

It has strategic value, which is something THF never had before at all. It could be argued that, at one point, Trick Attack had strategic value, but that was not really used by THF mains, but DDs that subbed THF to Trick Attack Weapon Skills on the actual tanks. The only strategic value to the job at all was not combat-related, namely TH. This is about to change. Since THF often get invited regardless, I can see people including targeted removal of enemy SP abilities in their strategies, something that would have been desired in much of older content. Admittedly, it won't be as useful on current content, simply because there isn't much current content that's being done, and I can't predict how that's gonna change during SoA, but for now it helps me in both solo and group efforts and gives THF a raison d'être except for TH.