Our solo in abyssea is over~

If you going to take away -100% PDT for pets you need to take it away for any class that can get it and on the same note take away super high Evasion where some classes all most never get hit. PLD can get Magic and Physical damage taken to -100% its not hard atma Earth Wyrm, Ducal Guard and Zeuith = -70% damage taken 30% more is not hard to get. So if you do not want to put in the work you self to get there don't dump on the ones that are will to do it.

assuming SE gimps it down beyond the viable use of PDT to tank a mob.. it just means Dipper price is going to sky rocket. anything that can be evasion tanked will get dipper and evasion atmas/axes and same issue will occur with ppl waiting for a bst to finish his fight. doesnt change the QQ issue. just changes the tactics bst will have to use to handle their business.

So to silence all the whiners SE has (as usual) just completely nerfed BST by not allowing Atma's to transfer over to pets.... Check it yourself Atma's no longer transfer over to pets as of today

This is your fix? so since you have taken it upon yourself to satisfy the whinners and now have made the BST job completely useless in parties and now solo I would like to request my money back for all three Abyssea exp.

Why?

BST is a solo based job so all the work BST's in general have put into DG and PDT gear in general for use in Abyssea no longer have any effect.

A well thought out solution (to your oversight) would have been to reduce the effect within reason, make Pet WS's such as Spiral Spin, Sheep Charge and a few others to be a part of the necessary proc's, in essence making BST's an integral part (as other jobs) of Abyssea.

But as we have seen in the past (even under the new development team) is to simply take the quick easy fix for your own blunders. So how many pet based jobs complaining will it take to implement a proper fix...50 80 100 it appears from the threads I have read approx 30-40 whiners gets you off your butt.

Or should the collective pet based jobs simply ask for their money back as we bought the expansions under the assumption that PDT gear and the corresponding Atama's would allow us to continue to play the job as intended/designed...solo

BTW you do realize that the above constitutes "Bait and Switch" which in most countries is illegal so requesting our money back would be within our legal realms...get your lawyers to check that one out

~Metal~

And people have just gone and tested and found that the previous post is not true.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

And people have just gone and tested and found that the previous post is not true.

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thank god! I'm going to go change my pants now...

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Originally Posted by Keinn

PS: SE, Please fix Cloudsplitter. It really is terrible.

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God yes. You compare Cloudsplitter to some of the ws other jobs got and it's really just a hammerblow to bst's balls.

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Originally Posted by ShadowHeart

pardon you don't know me dont bash me all 20 jobs were 70+ before abyssea i have every single weapon leveled over 300 every wsnm done including ranged 20/20 af 1 18/20 afv3 +1 or better and ur telling me learn how to play XD i been playing and doing it well for 7 years son so step off quit crying and learn to play with the people around you its a MULTY player game lol

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Learn to ignore Draylo. He fails so hard it's not even funny. Only thing he is good at is bitching and being a total jerk.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

They way you make Ilax's life miserable WITHOUT getting banned is to /blist and boycott Ilax. Help with nothing, never raise, boot from your shell if Ilax is in there, remove or raise prices in your bazaar if Ilax is trying to buy, refuse to share camps (clearly within the ToS) and MOST OF ALL, use only +eva atma on an evasive jug and hold an NM you know Ilax wants, but for over an hour now and refuse to invite or relinquish to Ilax; feel free to ninja claim any NM Ilax is fighting that goes yellow as well-that is apparently within the rules. Also, watch Ilax for anything s/he does that is within the design and rules of the game (like your -pdt build) but that you could call "exploit" on, and start a thread on here demanding that it be removed.

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Please don't. Player harassment is not a solution, and only contributes more to the problem.

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assuming SE gimps it down beyond the viable use of PDT to tank a mob.. it just means Dipper price is going to sky rocket. anything that can be evasion tanked will get dipper and evasion atmas/axes and same issue will occur with ppl waiting for a bst to finish his fight. doesnt change the QQ issue. just changes the tactics bst will have to use to handle their business.

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Evasion caps same as PDT will, once they fix this exploit though evasion tanking will be the next avenue yes. Be thankful to Square they gave you such an awesome pet to fall back on. Old school bsts had crappy selection of pets, you guys have it easy.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Evasion caps same as PDT will, once they fix this exploit though evasion tanking will be the next avenue yes. Be thankful to Square they gave you such an awesome pet to fall back on. Old school bsts had crappy selection of pets, you guys have it easy.

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the real funny part is this "exploit" (which wasn't) being "fixed" is going to make Ilax's QQ worse. We beasts will still solo, and still win, but it will take us longer to get the kills is all, "holding" the NM even longer. Only wish I was on that server so I could Laugh at it when it screams... ToS clearly state that it's 1st come 1st serve on any mob including NMs.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Old school bsts had crappy selection of pets, you guys have it easy.

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ive been playing 8 years~ lol I've dealt with the CC monopoly. laughed at the HQ pets added that offered nothing but a lower budget on the next set of pets to buy. I've leveled preTOA with exp penalties.

my point was that anyone who knows how to PLAY beastmaster wont be slowed down by this patch. ppl will still find a reason to dislike BST sharing a zone with them. i myself wont be saddened by this. i will continue finding ways to deal with my NM's.. even if it means buying a more expensive pet.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Evasion caps same as PDT will, once they fix this exploit though evasion tanking will be the next avenue yes. Be thankful to Square they gave you such an awesome pet to fall back on. Old school bsts had crappy selection of pets, you guys have it easy.

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wow, you trying to play that card? You think there are no "old school" bst here?

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wow, you trying to play that card? You think there are no "old school" bst here?

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There are some, but not many. Most are noobs that tacked onto bst cause of a broken mechanic and you know it.

Also for people with sour grapes over this and thinking to take it out on the playerbase at large, if you become a problem you will be treated as such. It's very very easy counter any kind of tactics you care to mention to grief.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

There are some, but not many. Most are noobs that tacked onto bst cause of a broken mechanic and you know it.

Also for people with sour grapes over this and thinking to take it out on the playerbase at large, if you become a problem you will be treated as such. It's very very easy counter any kind of tactics you care to mention to grief.

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I don't know it. neither do you. You do a survey? Its your opinion based off who knows what assumptions.

I have noticed alot more bst after scars, but it was never clear to me if they were new bst, or old players breaking the job out again. i saw alot of old players break the job out around the time scars came out, or a bit before.

I assume you are responding to some other players about 'giving grief'
I would not condone such a thing and I certainly wouldn't waste my time harassing another player. I don't find that sort of thing amusing in the least. I wouldn't waste my time on it either.

I don't think anyone suggesting a nerf to other jobs is serious. It is merely a comparison to make a point. Plenty of the features in abyssea are very comparable to 100% pet damage reduction. Many have a much larger impact.

Well I for one plan on takin whatever dings the nerf hammer has to offer with a smile.

All it tells me is that they know we're dangerous.

By the same token though, might we suggest that Nin/Dnc and Dnc/Nin are overpowered too? I defy anyone to tell me they solo an NM any faster than Bsts do, and that's entirely without one of our signature abilities(Charm). I'd like to see how effective other soloists would be were they in our shoes.

Maybe this'll be huge. Maybe it'll be nothing. Whatever happens, we'll find a way.

It's what we do.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Soloing with a pet that takes 0 physical damage is more broken than a melee in a party with 80% haste. Pets will probably still be able to get 87.5% damage reduction. It's not the end of the fucking world.

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I like this. It's the general consensus of people that feel we were broken and don't understand beast at all.

I solo'd bst to 75 before Abyssea because I enjoyed relaxing without drama and not relying on other's for things. I'm sure this patch won't effect us as much as some may think. The reason behind their crying was we could solo nm's taking 0 damage and hold nm's forever. Guess what? We've been solo'in for years. We can hold mobs forever one way or another. It might require some merit changes. Might require eta food instead of zeta. Might require more pet swaps. Either way we will still have a fairly high amount of defensive gear / atmas for our pets even if they drop the pdt cap. All this does is make our solo'in just a tad longer.

Congratulations you got your patch. I'm still gonna solo. Now you gotta wait longer. :P

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Congratulations you got your patch. I'm still gonna solo. Now you gotta wait longer. :P

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For most, waiting was never the issue, just playing your job with a little more skill than an almost invincible pet allowed. Bst is an awesome job but noobs using it in this way was really sadening, good bsts will still get their kills, just with a little more ability and knowledge than abusing a broken mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

For most, waiting was never the issue, just playing your job with a little more skill than an almost invincible pet allowed.

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My impression was waiting was most definitely the issue. Bst holding mobs for 40+ min trying to proc or having friends zomby nm's for wins. If your issue is a noobs ability to get away with success using atmas why single out bst? Abyssea has bread nothing but noobs from day one. I personally am saddened by the lack of skill almost any player has on at least one of their jobs. I did nm farming with a nin that was wearing AFv1 weilding AH katana's and only using utsumi. No spells to sneak around, no spells for yellow procs, no weapons for red procs, no skill to actually evade anything. Yet threw atmas (mostly auto reraise) he was successful at getting what he wanted.

So again if people were complaining because of lack of skills why single out bst?

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Pets will probably still be able to get 87.5% damage reduction. It's not the end of the fucking world.

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If you don't mind indulging me, what's your reasoning for assuming that 87.5 will be the new cap? Because that's what they settled for smn's avatars? That's pretty faulty reasoning considering that avatars have native pdt- and most pets don't.

For the most part, SE does two types of adjustment to jobs: those that are completely ineffectual and those that totally annihilate former styles of play. I'm leaning towards total annihilation of pet pdt- cap.SE's treatment of the job hasn't prepared me for any better scenario.

Because its been tested to be about that already.

All it took away was the ability for gimp bsts to throw a pet at some mob and afk for an hour, like nearly everyone expected and wanted.

Good bsts are mostly unaffected.

precisely, the issue was the holds, the "exploit" complaint was simply a way to disguise the hold complaint. Same thing happens with any other job that tries to solo, but they don't get complained at because the complainer relies on the same mechanism they would have to complain about to be able to solo it themselves. The next complaint won't be to get rid of evasion or regen atmas, it will simply be to get rid of Atma on pets altogether because the pets can hit harder than players. It has the added convenience that it doesn't even have to be true... and it allows my dnc to take the NM that your bst/pup/smn/drg no longer can!

It is for precisely this reason that I solo in Aby now with my bst or my pup even tho' my dnc or thf can do it just as well but without the expense of the jug/food/oil, to annoy the QQ. If it sounds like I don't care about their concerns... good, since that is precisely the message I'm trying to get across. I really need to work out a method to solo this crap on my bard, that'll prolly take 2-3 hours a kill...

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Originally Posted by Runespider

For most, waiting was never the issue, just playing your job with a little more skill than an almost invincible pet allowed. Bst is an awesome job but noobs using it in this way was really sadening, good bsts will still get their kills, just with a little more ability and knowledge than abusing a broken mechanic.

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Really? You might want to go read Ilax's original post in the locked thread again. Waiting an hour for "his" nm seemed to be the primary motivation behind the post in the first place. General whining about 'noob' groups taking too long to kill nms on other ff forums is pretty consistent.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Because its been tested to be about that already.

All it took away was the ability for gimp bsts to throw a pet at some mob and afk for an hour, like nearly everyone expected and wanted.

Good bsts are mostly unaffected.

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On jugpets? You're going to have to provide a link to prove that.

Here you go (clicky)

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Because its been tested to be about that already.

All it took away was the ability for gimp bsts to throw a pet at some mob and afk for an hour, like nearly everyone expected and wanted.

Good bsts are mostly unaffected.

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You can still "afk kill" with ducal MC and stronghold. U keep acting like this is sumthing we did. Nobody AFK kills. Even if we can, we dont.

Obviously some people did, though. Just because good bsts don't, doesn't mean that gimp bsts didn't.

Edit: All this update did was force the bottom tier of bsts to step up their game and learn the job better. I think everyone can agree this is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Obviously some people did, though. Just because good bsts don't, doesn't mean that gimp bsts didn't.

Edit: All this update did was force the bottom tier of bsts to step up their game and learn the job better. I think everyone can agree this is a good thing.

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actually, I prefer bad players to just die and delvl.... unfortunately XP is too easy for that to be an option.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Here you go (clicky)

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Cool, tyvm. Was there an update overnight? Or is there possibly another fix coming?

The update was about an hour ago. It's about 200 files to download when you log in next time. No more changes have been mentioned yet.

Wait so have they fixed it with the update today? Has it been confirmed because i haven't seen anybody post about it yet.

Cool this means I can switch out an axe probably for MDT axe and still average same damage taken as I never was a 100% pdt.

Has anybody tried out Ironclad's after the patch with Fatso? Wondering if his -PDT bonus for blunt is taken into account when calculating PDT cap.

next up, phalanx stoneskin pdt nerf. Cuz getting hit for 0 is apparently a gross violation of all things holy.

I already thought about the Giants but havn't tried it yet. I am only assuming they wouldn't be immune anymore because SE took into consideration avatars natural -pdt as well when gimping them. This would mean we are not more flexable on what atma's / gear we can equip which makes me happy. :)

Also side note because less is required to cap pdt noobs will have it easier with this update. lol

I just want to know that there is an army of bst with eva and regen atmas currently monopolizing the Scorp on Ilax's server, solo.

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I already thought about the Giants but havn't tried it yet. I am only assuming they wouldn't be immune anymore because SE took into consideration avatars natural -pdt as well when gimping them.

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Well, it seems like the extra 7.5% we're seeing from Stout Servant isn't considered in the new cap unless I'm mistaken?

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Obviously some people did, though. Just because good bsts don't, doesn't mean that gimp bsts didn't.

Edit: All this update did was force the bottom tier of bsts to step up their game and learn the job better. I think everyone can agree this is a good thing.

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Obviously someone did? If you want to make statements like that, back it up!

"It happened because I said so!" Sorry, but do you have a vid of someone sitting there w/out moving? Do you have screenshots w/ timestamps?
The only way you could be sure if someone did this is:
A. You sat and watched them not move.
B. You Did it yourself

you are running in logical circles
"They are nerfing it cuz bsts afk kill NMs!"
"Obviously someone afk killed, because they are nerfing it!"

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Originally Posted by Xilk

Obviously someone did? If you want to make statements like that, back it up!

"It happened because I said so!" Sorry, but do you have a vid of someone sitting there w/out moving? Do you have screenshots w/ timestamps?
The only way you could be sure if someone did this is:
A. You sat and watched them not move.
B. You Did it yourself

you are running in logical circles
"They are nerfing it cuz bsts afk kill NMs!"
"Obviously someone afk killed, because they are nerfing it!"

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The logic stick is a dangerous weapon in the hands of a Xilk.

The main issue really does come down to taking long periods of time to solo things. I'm not saying it to be pro-BST, but I do know from years of scrutiny I've seen the RDM community receive for the same reasons. Despite the overwhelming ability RDM has to solo and how many people leveled back when it was a bandwagon job, only 2-3% of the playerbase actually had the skill to solo something halfway decent, hell most couldn't solo their way out of a paperbag if you gave them half a chance. However, despite how few could actually solo worth a salt many have literally scream out Nerf against RDM for years, just for being able to "solo" that took longer than 15 minutes to kill. I know BST's have been in the same boat, and I also know as long as SE knows/thinks they can still do their job they'll give them as little as possible to do it.

But I can't help but think if these people were pushed into a position where they couldn't abuse game mechanics like with Kirin Zergs or "Zombie" (Apoc Atma) tactics, if they could really do anything halfway challenging with a moderate level of success.

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Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung

The logic stick is a dangerous weapon in the hands of a Xilk.

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Actually, I'll tone this down abit, even though the logic of the statement I was responding to was ridiculous.

I think there is a valid point hidden underneath.

The POTENTIAL for a player to do this in some rare and very limited ways DID exist.

I took the opportunity to quickly use my 100% pdt pet to gather the atma's from Emperador de altepa and Cuijatender right before the maint today.
Cuijatender still took about 30 min to kill. w/ 7 people and my pet tanking. I went back solo just to check some measurements. There is no way a master can be w/in range to fight this NM. shucks if you have 18 members in an alliance to mitigate 64k damage spread evenly you are still getting 3.5k damage.
So the only way a BST could take this NM on is by sending pets w/ 100% -pdt (even w/ 87.5% reduction pet will take 8k damage).. by my calculations it would take a bst over 3 hours to kill Cuijatender in the that way...

Which if anyone was stupid enough to attempt, COULD impact other players in a significant degree. The POTENTIAL for abuse was there, and that MIGHT be a justification for SE. However, I'm the first to suggest it, it seems. Which continues to imply to me that the vocal detractors really haven't touched the real reasons they find 100% -pdt so offensive.

I see the arguments as thus:

detractor: 100% -pdt is broken
supporter: its not broken, it is comparable to the rest of abyssea (crit damage+, haste, infinite whm mp, etc.)
detractor: Nope, its just broken (brawndo's got what the body needs!!)

I can think of plenty of things a detractor might say to follow the argument up. A real discussion, a real COMPARISON of abilities. However, I just hear the same thing repeated, along w/ "shut up about it". Ageed, there ARE "whiners" on the bst side of things as well. However, there are also several serious posters who have been addressing the isue w/ points that have valid points that have been blatantly avoided. This really discredits the detractors.

i hear the detractors trying to silence, I hear supporters trying to engage in conversation. If you don't want to hear it, you don't have to listen. I got tired of the argument and stayed away for a few days. These things all point to an ulterior motivation for many detractors.

ps.
I"m not even sure if BST could defeat cuijatender this way, as the regen from photosynthesis might outdo the rate of damage the pet can do. It would work for Emperador de Altepa, but that would take about 1 hour, and I've never had the patience for that, because you won't get anything from the fight at all...