Is FFXI getting a cash shop?

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Originally Posted by Blazeoffury

Ok i'm done here. If you think ffxi is going to keep going then fine, I think 14 will keep on taking players the better it gets and that's all i have to say, carry on with your crying over a possible vaniety shop.

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Apples and oranges, it's never going to get better than it is. It will just add more of the same kinda of content that most xi players don't like. Dungeon grinding, over and over and over...and little else. FFXI is made to appeal to players that like everquest type systems in a ff skin, FFXIV is made to appeal to players that want a wow type system with a ff skin. If you don't like the wow style of mmo then you will never want to play XIV long term.

Square want both games to run and be profitable, FFXI gets more updates than XIV does for a reason. XIV was never meant to replace XI, they were always meant to run side by side and attract different audiences or for the players to play both. Which is why you can finish all your weekly content on XIV in a weekend and have nothing left to do for the rest of the week.

You talk like most of us haven't played other mmo titles and we don't know about XIV or something, many of us have played it and/or other titles and left it behind as unsatisfactory. XIV players have this mindset that they can show us the light and we will all quit and play their game. No we aren't ignorant to the game, we just don't like it.

His post on this page was actually trying to save it, some crap like.. 'if you had any brain youd know i switched to my main because people thought i was trolling'. Guess he realized how stupid that sounded and edited it.

No i just couldn't be bothered to fight with you over it so i edited it but as you want to bring it up i'll happily repeat it for you.

There is no winning with you people because if i post on a level 1 char it's considered trolling regardless if what i said is how i feel, so i signed onto my main char and continued on to then have someone as "smart" as you point out that it was stilll me, well no fucking shit Sherlock that's exactly why i logged onto this account.

I love seeing a troll get humiliated by being caught in an act like this. There is seriously no greater satisfaction. The desperate backpedaling only makes it better, lol.

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Originally Posted by Seillan

I love seeing a troll get humiliated by being caught in an act like this. There is seriously no greater satisfaction. The desperate backpedaling only makes it better, lol.

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Omg lol caught in the act. I signed onto my main account so people would stop with the trolling comments you dolt. My points still stand and i stand by them, people are crying over a possible vaniety shop, it's not pay to win who cares. The game is on it's way out a little bit slower than i would personally like but anyone who denys this is in complete denial about the server numbers and a lot of the rehashed content we are getting, not all content but a lot is rehashed. The way some of the fans were acting at the 14 fan fest was cringe worthy at best and down right creepy at worst.

Honestly, FFXI would benefit from adding a Cash Shop. People already buy enough gil on the servers as it is, whether they admit to it or not. By adding a shop, it would cut the middle man and allow you to get the advantage you've been looking for.

Yeah, some people might think that's absurd and totally plays to the rich, but have you ever played any mobile games lately? A couple come to mind such as Puzzle and Dragons and Brave Frontier. Yeah, you can go about playing the games legitimately and say how cool you are for doing it. But who has the time for that any more. If I spend just a few dollars to give me a boost to completion, I'd take that in a heart beat. I mean really, who wants to waste a minimum of 5 months on completing a Mythic anymore, especially if they have a limited time to play in the first place.

Vanity and Promotional items are a given for the shop. But adding a shop to help out in those crunch times would be fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Blazeoffury

No i just couldn't be bothered to fight with you over it so i edited it but as you want to bring it up i'll happily repeat it for you.

There is no winning with you people because if i post on a level 1 char it's considered a troll regardless if what i said is how i feel, so i signed onto my main char and continued on to then have someone as "smart" as you point out that it was stilll me, well no fucking shit Sherlock that's exactly why i logged onto this account.

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Posting on a level 1 character is not an example of trolling I agree. There is a tendency on forums to pile on when weakness is sensed. It's that pack dog mentality and always happens when a lot of animals congregate (yes, people are still animals in my estimation). But your posts are needlessly hostile. But that's ok. I can take it.

But I like to think Final Fantasy 14 will never replace Final Fantasy 11 because they are two fundamentally different games. 14 is more like an arcade-type game - as was described so aptly by another poster - where as Final Fantasy 11 retains at least some of the genre's traditional roots.

That being said though: it's impossible to deny that Final Fantasy 14 has hurt Final Fantasy 11's population. The game was an absolute ghost town shortly after its re-release. Though many players have left Final Fantasy 14 and returned home (I am one of them).

But it's likely many of us still have friends who play 14 and that will remain an incentive for some of us to back regardless of how lacking we find the game. In truth: I really do think the ideal solution would be to combine both games into a single subscription plan. I think it would benefit both games to do so. Just to be clear though:

14 is a shameless copy-cat of World of Warcraft. That's all it is. WoW with moogles. And SE frankly should be ashamed of it. But those are just my opinions :)

Anyway - the cash shop is a bad idea. No one wants Pay-to-Win and it would alienate far more players than it would attract. Cosmetic items I suppose could be thought of as a harmless gesture to boost revenue. A lot of us including myself wouldn't like it. But I doubt anyone would quit over it as long as it stayed purely cosmetic.

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Honestly, FFXI would benefit from adding a Cash Shop. People already buy enough gil on the servers as it is, whether they admit to it or not. By adding a shop, it would cut the middle man and allow you to get the advantage you've been looking for.

Yeah, some people might think that's absurd and totally plays to the rich, but have you ever played any mobile games lately? A couple come to mind such as Puzzle and Dragons and Brave Frontier. Yeah, you can go about playing the games legitimately and say how cool you are for doing it. But who has the time for that any more. If I spend just a few dollars to give me a boost to completion, I'd take that in a heart beat. I mean really, who wants to waste a minimum of 5 months on completing a Mythic anymore, especially if they have a limited time to play in the first place.

Vanity and Promotional items are a given for the shop. But adding a shop to help out in those crunch times would be fantastic.

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everything you said sounds awful (including sold vanity gear), and I still havent gotten my relic past 95.

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Originally Posted by Blazeoffury

Omg lol caught in the act. I signed onto my main account so people would stop with the trolling comments you dolt. My points still stand and i stand by them, people are crying over a possible vaniety shop, it's not pay to win who cares. The game is on it's way out a little bit slower than i would personally like but anyone who denys this is in complete denial about the server numbers and a lot of the rehashed content we are getting, not all content but a lot is rehashed. The way some of the fans were acting at the 14 fan fest was cringe worthy at best and down right creepy at worst.

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Ah, so people that switch accounts so they won't be accused of trolling tend to use that account to agree with themselves as if they're different people, or did you forget you posted this gem?

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Originally Posted by Blazeoffury

I agree it really is time for the game to be given an end date. It has gotten old stale, boring. Watching the playerbase wank themselves silly over redoing af/relic armor to 119 it's time for this old dog to be taken out back and given the old yellow treatment.

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Haha, this is just too effing good. Please, keep it coming. /popcorn

Yeah so what ? As i said you dolt i switched to my main so i could post without the trolling accusations and it was pretty obvious to anyone reading the whole topic it was me. Don't worry i'll write a disclaimer next time and say it's me.

I'm admitting it was me, I would have just denied it flat out if i was trying to hide it you funny little creature.

This is also really quite funny becuase you are doing the same thing you disagree with posting on a low level account to hide who you really are whilst trying to cause trouble but again none of it bothers me it just further proves to me why i pretty much destest the kind of people who play mmos.

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Originally Posted by Blazeoffury

Yeah so what ? As i said you dolt i switched to my main so i could post without the trolling accusations and it was pretty obvious to anyone reading the whole topic it was me. Don't worry i'll write a disclaimer next time and say it's me.

I'm admitting it was me, I would have just denied it flat out if i was trying to hide it you funny little creature.

This is also really quite funny becuase you are doing the same thing you disagree with posting on a low level account to hide who you really are whilst trying to cause trouble but again none of it bothers me it just further proves to me why i pretty much destest the kind of people who play mmos.

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You only admit it because you got caught. You're not very bright are you?

And no, I'm not posting on a low level account. This is my only active FFXI account and as such, I'm posting on it. I'm not so pathetic that I need to troll on alt accounts to give my opinions some sense of validation.

Keep it coming though, really. Each one of your posts makes your initial "dregs of society" comment that much more ironic :p.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

everything you said sounds awful (including sold vanity gear), and I still havent gotten my relic past 95.

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One line replies like this are very constructive to conversations such as this. I commend your critical thinking and focus to this thread.

On topic though, why WOULD a Shop be a good or bad thing to have around? Honestly, who still plays this game long enough to get anything come? You have to play for at least three hours daily to get anything important done. That includes logging in, running around town, doing the event(s) you wanted to touch, and then settling down to log off. Who has time from this any more?

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

One line replies like this are very constructive to conversations such as this. I commend your critical thinking and focus to this thread.

On topic though, why WOULD a Shop be a good or bad thing to have around? Honestly, who still plays this game long enough to get anything come? You have to play for at least three hours daily to get anything important done. That includes logging in, running around town, doing the event(s) you wanted to touch, and then settling down to log off. Who has time from this any more?

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If you don't have time to play an MMORPG though the better solution would be just not to play one. Not to play one anyway and then ask a shop be opened up so you can buy all of the progress you don't have time for.

That's like joining a football team but saying I don't have time for practice so let me buy my touchdowns. How do you think the other players on the team putting in all those hard hours practicing would feel about that?

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Originally Posted by Dale

If you don't have time to play an MMO though the better solution would be just not to play one. Not to play one anyway and then ask a shop be opened up so you can buy all of the progress you don't have time for.

That's like joining a football team but saying I don't have time for practice so let me buy my touchdowns. How do you think the other players on the team putting in all those hard hours practicing would feel about that?

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Exactly. That "Who has time for this any more?" type of reasoning makes absolutely no sense to me in the context of an mmorpg. These games are designed to take time; that's part of the draw. I have limited time too these days, but I enjoy the time I'm able to get something accomplished in game, even if it's only little by little. The last thing I'd ever want to see was the ability to just take out my credit card and buy everything that I was too lazy to earn myself. If that's what you ("You" being general for those that would prefer buying their progress) want, this genre doesn't seem like the best fit for you.

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Originally Posted by Seillan

Exactly. That "Who has time for this any more?" type of reasoning makes absolutely no sense to me in the context of an mmorpg. These games are designed to take time; that's part of the draw. I have limited time too these days, but I enjoy the time I'm able to get something accomplished in game, even if it's only little by little. The last thing I'd ever want to see was the ability to just take out my credit card and buy everything that I was too lazy to earn myself. If that's what you ("You" being general for those that would prefer buying their progress) want, this genre doesn't seem like the best fit for you.

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It doesn't make any sense to me either so you're not alone.

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Originally Posted by Dale

If you don't have time to play an MMORPG though the better solution would be just not to play one. Not to play one anyway and then ask a shop be opened up so you can buy all of the progress you don't have time for.

That's like joining a football team but saying I don't have time for practice so let me buy my touchdowns. How do you think the other players on the team putting in all those hard hours practicing would feel about that?

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That's one way to think about it. However, marketing in games does not think about it that way. They could care less about your practice and more about your touchdowns. So instead of giving you the touchdowns, they give you the boost to perform the touchdown and still make you feel like you've done well within the game. Some players might think that's cheeky, and for sure it is, but not everyone has the same dedication to put into the game. They want to enjoy it, but in a different way.

One way to think of it in this case, how does this give an advantage to other players? Does them getting the item over you hurt your odds at getting the item? Does them getting the boost make them more likely to get stuff done over you? I haven't found an answer to either of these questions to prove them getting any help would make them "Better" than you.

If this was a PvP based game, I might think differently. However, it is not such and any external growth to your own does not effect you.

Goodness, look at the firestorm I started by phrasing something as "a living, breathing world" before I went to bed.

Not that it matters, but just to clarify, I am very aware that Vana'diel isn't real, to the poster who was so deeply concerned for my mental health. But I've been playing FFXIV, which is a pure themepark game. Ie, you log in, get your gear, get out with no real impetus (not the monk JA) to explore around or do anything else but the latest event. That's fine, that's how themeparks are. XI, in contrast, IS designed to be as close to a second home, or even "a living world" by MMO standards, a more sandbox game that allowed you to find something to do the majority of the time, even if the event wasn't new. Hopefully that clarifies my mental health :)

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

That's one way to think about it. However, marketing in games does not think about it that way. They could care less about your practice and more about your touchdowns. So instead of giving you the touchdowns, they give you the boost to perform the touchdown and still make you feel like you've done well within the game. Some players might think that's cheeky, and for sure it is, but not everyone has the same dedication to put into the game. They want to enjoy it, but in a different way.

One way to think of it in this case, how does this give an advantage to other players? Does them getting the item over you hurt your odds at getting the item? Does them getting the boost make them more likely to get stuff done over you? I haven't found an answer to either of these questions to prove them getting any help would make them "Better" than you.

If this was a PvP based game, I might think differently. However, it is not such and any external growth to your own does not effect you.

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It may not be PvP-based, but there are PvP activities. Not to mention there are other types of competition outside of direct PvP - such as competition for monsters etc. where advantages bought from cash shops could certainly come into play. But anyway - I was never trying to frame the debate in terms of the semantics regarding the word advantage.

From a marketing perspective - if a game wants to advertise itself as a pay-to-win style game then that is fine. But that is quite a different matter than to later implement it in on a game where this style of play was never expected or marketed as. A game where players have already spent enormous amounts of time to gather the best equipment only to find out later they could have simply donated some of their paycheck for the week to acquire it. That is almost like a slap in the face. No let me rephrase. That is a slap in the face.

So in other words: I guess what I'm simply saying to you is if a person enjoys that style of game and wants to play a pay-to-win game they should go out and buy a pay-to-win game. Not buy Final Fantasy XI and then ask for it to be turned into a pay-to-win game just to suit them.

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Originally Posted by Blazeoffury

No i just couldn't be bothered to fight with you over it so i edited it but as you want to bring it up i'll happily repeat it for you.

There is no winning with you people because if i post on a level 1 char it's considered trolling regardless if what i said is how i feel, so i signed onto my main char and continued on to then have someone as "smart" as you point out that it was stilll me, well no fucking shit Sherlock that's exactly why i logged onto this account.

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Not true, if you posted on a level one char with its very first Post Number One, and wrote some positive constructive feedback / criticisms, my reply would have been "welcome to the Forums" etc. and I would have replied to the salient points you made in your post in a friendly adult manner, as between equals. The reason you got called a troll is because that account had zero posts, and with your very first post you called fans of this game "dregs" and "fools" etc. That is the classic definition of troll, they are literally flame-spewing on their very first post. Like "I only made this account to post this tirade of bitterness on post number one," lol.

Back on topic though, and being as I am in two ancient linkshells founded in 2004, along with some newer linkshells, I can confirm that none of the established playerbase wants to see Creditcard Leapfrogging added to this game. I feel certain that SE would lose a lot of subscriptions if they added a direct pay-cash-for RME / content clears type of system. FFXI has been changed a lot over the years, but it has never been changed in such a fundamental drastic way. Giving people trusts and homepoint warps and sparks, is not the same as giving them a system where they can use Daddy's mastercard to buy Mythics or w/e. Just listening to the chatter on my LS's, I think the game would lose a lot of loyal fans if this change came to pass. Because it would fundamentally change the FFXI effort-reward structure, and thus make it a different game entirely. So SE would have to balance out the income from selling core content wins/gear, with the money they will lose when the actual play-games-on-legitmode people walk out in disgust.

But again, I don't mind people getting special event stuff like Tidal Talisman etc. I havent used my Talisman at all since the Nashmau home-point-warp was added lol, and I used that body to warp for years before the HP-nexus system arrived. These are fun quirky gift items and I think SE should add them to the management page for purchase. But no currencies / content progress / serious items, because that would upset players who spent years working on those things.

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Originally Posted by Dale

It may not be PvP-based, but there are PvP activities. Not to mention there are other types of competition outside of direct PvP - such as competition for monsters etc. where advantages bought from cash shops could certainly come into play. But anyway - I was never trying to frame the debate in terms of the semantics regarding the word advantage.

From a marketing perspective - if a game wants to advertise itself as a pay-to-win style game then that is fine. But that is quite a different matter than to later implement it in on a game where this style of play was never expected or marketed as. A game where players have already spent enormous amounts of time to gather the best equipment only to find out later they could have simply donated some of their paycheck for the week to acquire it. That is almost like a slap in the face. No let me rephrase. That is a slap in the face.

So in other words: I guess what I'm simply saying to you is if a person enjoys that style of game and wants to play a pay-to-win game they should go out and buy a pay-to-win game. Not buy Final Fantasy XI and then ask for it to be turned into a pay-to-win game just to suit them.

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Thank you for your point of view. And I agree, there are other parts of the game that could be considered competitive but in my observation and 12year knowledge of that game, there would be little obstruction to a player receiving such boosts... If SE were to implement the scaling right.

I also believe there is a lot of ambiguity to the "Cash Shop" idea from the player perspective. Just because there is going to be a shop that allows player to get items, does not mean these items will give the same intense advantage players are making them out to give. A good example of over reacting can be seen in the AA weapons, GK and Scythe. Yes they allow the wielder to use the respective WS but they still have to work for those WS in skill and their stats are no combat relevant.

To touch on the Play-to-win style of gaming. I never came in here asking for it nor did I specify how boosts or products would effect players. I simply stated in my first post that it would be a neat idea and gave a couple ideas of what I thought would be cool to see from it. If the shop is pure novelty, it wont change my perspective on the game.

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Thank you for your point of view. And I agree, there are other parts of the game that could be considered competitive but in my observation and 12year knowledge of that game, there would be little obstruction to a player receiving such boosts... If SE were to implement the scaling right.

I also believe there is a lot of ambiguity to the "Cash Shop" idea from the player perspective. Just because there is going to be a shop that allows player to get items, does not mean these items will give the same intense advantage players are making them out to give. A good example of over reacting can be seen in the AA weapons, GK and Scythe. Yes they allow the wielder to use the respective WS but they still have to work for those WS in skill and their stats are no combat relevant.

To touch on the Play-to-win style of gaming. I never came in here asking for it nor did I specify how boosts or products would effect players. I simply stated in my first post that it would be a neat idea and gave a couple ideas of what I thought would be cool to see from it. If the shop is pure novelty, it wont change my perspective on the game.

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My last points were meant generally. I was never accusing you of wanting to see Pay-to-Win on FF XI. Since you felt the need to defend yourself about that I should point that out.

A novelty shop would annoy me. I won't lie about that because I feel the money I pay each month should be sufficient and grant me equal access to all the content. So if they were to start adding exclusive items players can shop for on the side for it would feel like a lame gimmick to me.

The only way I could ever support something like that is if the items were purely cosmetic in nature and the developers swore an oath that all proceeds from it would go directly into development and not extra drinks in the bar after work. I would also need to see immediate results as well to confirm they were telling the truth. Then I might could hold my nose and support it.

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Originally Posted by Deirdre

Goodness, look at the firestorm I started by phrasing something as "a living, breathing world" before I went to bed.

Not that it matters, but just to clarify, I am very aware that Vana'diel isn't real, to the poster who was so deeply concerned for my mental health. But I've been playing FFXIV, which is a pure themepark game. Ie, you log in, get your gear, get out with no real impetus (not the monk JA) to explore around or do anything else but the latest event. That's fine, that's how themeparks are. XI, in contrast, IS designed to be as close to a second home, or even "a living world" by MMO standards, a more sandbox game that allowed you to find something to do the majority of the time, even if the event wasn't new. Hopefully that clarifies my mental health :)

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I agree with you. So if you are mentally insane so am I.

FF XI is immersive and draws me into the environments as if I were there. Where as on Final Fantasy 14 I feel like I'm just rushing from point A to point B over and over again just so I can say I'm done. There is no sense of a living world as you described it.

The graphics on 14 may be sharper and more colorful. But if all I want is better graphics I'll simply walk outside. I live near a national park with waterfalls, rivers and mountains. What truly matters is a game's ability to hold my attention and allow me to escape into a different world I care about being in. And 11 does this far better than 14 does.

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Originally Posted by Dale

My last points were meant generally. I was never accusing you of wanting to see Pay-to-Win on FF XI. Since you felt the need to defend yourself about that I should point that out.

A novelty shop would annoy me. I won't lie about that because I feel the money I pay each month should be sufficient and grant me equal access to all the content. So if they were to start adding exclusive items players can shop for on the side for it would feel like a lame gimmick to me.

The only way I could ever support something like that is if the items were purely cosmetic in nature and the developers swore an oath that all proceeds from it would go directly into development and not extra drinks in the bar after work. I would also need to see immediate results as well to confirm they were telling the truth. Then I might could hold my nose and support it.

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I assume you find the Tidal Talisman, Moogle Cap, Nomad Cap, etc... are all gimmicks too? These are all purchased items you can't get anywhere else other than the purchased ticket or Real world merchandise. What if they were to add more of these like item to the game for a fee? Would it be any different? Sounds more like your argument to the idea is out of jealousy rather than practicality.

Another point I was subtly trying to make is Time is Money. If I can justify paying for an item that would equate to the time spent getting it, I will pay for the item in time up front. Because as we all know, Time equals Money, right? So why can't I just give my time in advance?

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

I assume you find the Tidal Talisman, Moogle Cap, Nomad Cap, etc... are all gimmicks too? These are all purchased items you can't get anywhere else other than the purchased ticket or Real world merchandise. What if they were to add more of these like item to the game for a fee? Would it be any different? Sounds more like your argument to the idea is out of jealousy rather than practicality.

Another point I was subtly trying to make is Time is Money. If I can justify paying for an item that would equate to the time spent getting it, I will pay for the item in time up front. Because as we all know, Time equals Money, right? So why can't I just give my time in advance?

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Yes, you are right Zephrose. I am jealous of the moogle cap. You have figured me out. :p

Sarcasm aside, a gimmick is just a trick to make money. I think the term applies. And even if you do not, that certainly doesn't make me jealous.

Anyway: I already explained this. This game was not sold as a pay-to-win game. It would be a slap in the face to players who spent vast amounts of time and effort to acquire the best gear only to let players buy it with some of their pay-check and skip all of that hard work.

As I said earlier: if someone feels they don't have the necessary time to play a game then they simply shouldn't play it. That makes a lot more sense then playing the game then asking for the developers to let them buy what other players have just because they don't have the time to put in the same effort.

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Another point I was subtly trying to make is Time is Money. If I can justify paying for an item that would equate to the time spent getting it, I will pay for the item in time up front. Because as we all know, Time equals Money, right? So why can't I just give my time in advance?

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If this is seriously how you want to "play" (and I use that word very loosely here) an online game, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of F2P grinders and facebook games that would gladly accommodate you and your wallet. Let XI be one of the last games with some integrity and without a nickel and diming philosophy for those of us that prefer actually playing the game and earning the rewards we get.

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Originally Posted by Seillan

If this is seriously how you want to "play" (and I use that word very loosely here) an online game, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of F2P grinders and facebook games that would gladly accommodate you and your wallet. Let XI be one of the last games with some integrity and without a nickel and diming philosophy for those of us that prefer actually playing the game and earning the rewards we get.

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Exactly. There are plenty of pay-win-games out there on the market. There is no good reason to bring it here also.

Diversity and options is good for any market place.

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Originally Posted by Seillan

If this is seriously how you want to "play" (and I use that word very loosely here) an online game, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of F2P grinders and facebook games that would gladly accommodate you and your wallet. Let XI be one of the last games with some integrity and without a nickel and diming philosophy for those of us that prefer actually playing the game and earning the rewards we get.

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*slow clap*

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Originally Posted by Seillan

If this is seriously how you want to "play" (and I use that word very loosely here) an online game, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of F2P grinders and facebook games that would gladly accommodate you and your wallet. Let XI be one of the last games with some integrity and without a nickel and diming philosophy for those of us that prefer actually playing the game and earning the rewards we get.

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If you don't believe you're being nickle and dimmed as of now for playing the game, you are delusional. The game charges you 12.99 a month for something that is hardly of value any more. Hell, I know players that are paying more then that just to get more log-in points/goods. Is that not the same things but in a different way? Essentially you are paying 12.99 a month for a single character to purchase items with log-in points. Is that hard work? Is that truly in-game effort to get something spectacular? You can look at it in different ways really. The Cash Shop approach just puts everything up front and available in a different venue.

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Originally Posted by Dale

Exactly. There are plenty of pay-win-games out there on the market. There is no good reason to bring it here also.

Diversity and options is good for any market place.

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Yeah, I understand there are plenty of pay-to-win games out there. But I disagree on "There is no good reason to bring it here also". I would think quite the opposite to this in fact. I'm sure players would love it more than you'd think. Just because there are a handful of you here saying "No, please no..." doesn't mean others are not silently cheering on SE to implement it. Like Abyssea, I believe the shop would add another good facet to this game that players can leverage.

Diversity is good in the market place yes, but why not apply within something that already exists? Just a little effort is needed to get it off the ground. :)

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Essentially you are paying 12.99 a month for a single character to purchase items with log-in points.

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No lol. You're paying 12.99 monthly subs for all of Vanadiel. An immersive online world, full of fun quests, epic missions, a very playable core battle engine, crafting, fishing, in-game friendships formed over many years, community fun. Etc. etc. etc.

The log in points were just another fun new system that were added to the package of experiences we call Vanadiel. Nobody was paying their main account just for log in points. We were paying for FFXI, and then log in points were added as a bonus. I would continue to pay subs if log in points stopped forever. So would everyone on my LS. So your idea that we are paying subs for log in points, and therefor we would all gladly have a cash shop, is madness.

How about all those people who spent years and years building RME, in pre ilvl grind with blood sweat and tears. Do you think they will be happy when some five year old kid buys that same RME with his dad's Visacard, in a five minute shopping process.

SE have made the game easier so you can farm those epic items on solo or in smaller groups. Surely that is enough of a concession, without making those items available in a one click shopping visit.

SE have already added ilvl 119 weapons and armor in the game which you can obtain fairly easily, and at low cost. This means that all players can have ilvl 119 weapons and armor, without feeling they need to spend ages farming RME items and currencies. There is no need for players to get RME to be useful in events. There is no need for players to buy gil, breaking the Rules of the game, and cheating the ingame role playing system, just to take part in the game at 119 standard.

Buying gil is cheating, you are playing a character in a RPG world, that character has to craft and farm and contribute to the Vanadiel economy, in order to obtain the exclusive legendary RME items. Buying gil opens a portal between that atmospheric roleplaying world, and the world of Earthly currencies. In real terms it is as though your character mysteriously got many millions of gil appear out of nowhere, without working for that money in the roleplaying game setting. This totally devalues the roleplaying game system. A cash shop would be the same, but without the official recognition that this process is cheating. Imo that would kill the game stone dead.

Again I agree with making Gift/ Event costumes like Tidal etc available again for more people, I paid for it because I wanted the Tidal Pendant real world item. And my Tidal Pendant purchase never undermined the hard work and devotion that people have put into their RMEs, not did it undermine the realism of a roleplaying world where characters have to earn their own money without it magically appearing in sudden mountains of gil from outside Vanadiel. A Cash-for-serious-gear/currency shop would undermine the years of work people put into gearing their chars by actually playing the game with an rpg adventurer spirit. A cash shop would kill that adventurer spirit dead.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

No lol. You're paying 12.99 monthly subs for all of Vanadiel. An immersive online world, full of fun quests, epic missions, a very playable core battle engine, crafting, fishing, in-game friendships formed over many years, community fun. Etc. etc. etc.

The log in points were just another fun new system that were added to the package of experiences we call Vanadiel. Nobody was paying their main account just for log in points. We were paying for FFXI, and then log in points were added as a bonus. I would continue to pay subs if log in points stopped forever. So would everyone on my LS. So your idea that we are paying subs for log in points, and therefor we would all gladly have a cash shop, is madness.

How about all those people who spent years and years building RME, in pre ilvl grind with blood sweat and tears. Do you think they will be happy when some five year old kid buys that same RME with his dad's Visacard, in a five minute shopping process.

SE have made the game easier so you can farm those epic items on solo or in smaller groups. Surely that is enough of a concession, without making those items available in a one click shopping visit.

SE have already added ilvl 119 weapons and armor in the game which you can obtain fairly easily, and at low cost. This means that all players can have ilvl 119 weapons and armor, without feeling they need to spend ages farming RME items and currencies. There is no need for players to get RME to be useful in events. There is no need for players to buy gil, breaking the Rules of the game, and cheating the ingame role playing system, just to take part in the game at 119 standard.

Buying gil is cheating, you are playing a character in a RPG world, that character has to craft and farm and contribute to the Vanadiel economy, in order to obtain the exclusive legendary RME items. Buying gil opens a portal between that atmospheric roleplaying world, and the world of Earthly currencies. In real terms it is as though your character mysteriously got manymillions of gil appear out of nowehere, without working for that money in the rpg setting. This totally devalues the roleplaying game system. A cash shop would be the same, but without the official recognition that this process is cheating. Imo that would kill the game stone dead.

Again I agree with making Gift/ Event costumes like Tidal etc available again for more people, I paid for it because I wanted the Tidal Pendant real world item. And my Tidal Pendant purchase never undermined the hard work and devotion that people have put into their RMEs, not did it undermine the realism of a roleplaying world where characters have to earn their own money without it magically appearing in sudden mountains of gil from outside Vanadiel. A Cash-for-serious-gear/currency shop would undermine the years of work people put into gearing their chars by actually playing the game with an rpg adventurer spirit. A cash shop would kill that adventurer spirit dead.

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You said everything I was going to say and more, Stompa. To think that being charged a single monthly fee of a measly 13 dollars (which is two dollars less than just about any other subscription mmo, btw), for the hundreds or even thousands of hours worth of stuff to do in the game, somehow equates to "nickel and diming" is not only delusional (using your word here Zephrose) it's just plain silly, imo. Playing a subscription based mmorpg is one of the cheapest forms of entertainment and easily one of the best bangs for your buck that you can find -- and that's hardly arguable. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for online games that use micro-transaction systems that are designed to keep your wallet open at all times. Maybe that's what you want, but it sure as hell isn't what I -- nor I imagine what most other players of this game -- want.

Still don't think you understand the concept of time is money here but that's OK. Jealousy can make you do strange things at times.

And I still stand by my statement to the monthly payment. Yes you gain access to the full game, of course you do. But so do F2P games... Yes you have to pay for some extra resources but so do you in ffxi, it's called a subscription which gives you more time to play. The terms are different but in core fundamentals they are the same. They both allow you to play the game for a longer period and at the height of its enjoyment. Again, delusional...

So what if it's something I am suggesting. Not like the Devs will ever have plans to make it happen. :D

http://procrasti-nation.eu/wp-conten...e-my-money.jpg

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Still don't think you understand the concept of time is money here but that's OK. Jealousy can make you do strange things at times.

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Time is time.

If you want to play FFXI with 119 gear you can do this without the ultra-exclusive gear. If you want to obtain this RME gear, you are accepting a Long Term Challenge. When you accept any challenge, you are accepting the rules of that challenge, as well as the known hardships involved in that challenge. Nobody is forcing you to do it. But if you choose to accept the challenge, you have to accept the rules of the challenge. In the case of RME that involves a large amount of time, if you are playing by the rules.

I've been on the HMP stage of my empy forever lol. But I keep chipping away at it. And one day when my empy is finished, I will rejoice and dance for joy. Because I accepted the challenge and I beat the challenge, I beat it on legit mode without cheating, even though it took me a LONG TIME lol. Playing by the rules and overcoming challenges is what being a gamer is all about.

:)

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Originally Posted by Seillan

You said everything I was going to say and more, Stompa. To think that being charged a single monthly fee of a measly 13 dollars (which is two dollars less than just about any other subscription mmo, btw), for the hundreds or even thousands of hours worth of stuff to do in the game, somehow equates to "nickel and diming" is not only delusional (using your word here Zephrose) it's just plain silly, imo. Playing a subscription based mmorpg is one of the cheapest forms of entertainment and easily one of the best bangs for your buck that you can find -- and that's hardly arguable. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for online games that use micro-transaction systems that are designed to keep your wallet open at all times. Maybe that's what you want, but it sure as hell isn't what I -- nor I imagine what most other players of this game -- want.

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I totally agree, and you really make great points. Especially the "bang for your buck" part. I keep meeting FFXI players who used to spend so much money on alcohol, rave parties, sports event tickets and offical merchandise (lol). They were paying a fortune to basically wreck their health, or sit in stadiums watching some dudes in the far distance getting paid $quadrillions to toss a ball around. Then they discovered Vanadiel, and found that for just small payment per month, they could be entertained and excited and meet new friends all the time. I know people who have said Vanadiel saved their lives, it made them stop drinking or living reckless real-world lifestyles. And it gave them a hobby which was constructive and fun, for the price of a few beers per month.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Time is time.

If you want to play FFXI with 119 gear you can do this without the ultra-exclusive gear. If you want to obtain this RME gear, you are accepting a Long Term Challenge. When you accept any challenge, you are accepting the rules of that challenge, as well as the known hardships involved in that challenge. Nobody is forcing you to do it. But if you choose to accept the challenge, you have to accept the rules of the challenge. In the case of RME that involves a large amount of time, if you are playing by the rules.

I've been on the HMP stage of my empy forever lol. But I keep chipping away at it. And one day when my empy is finished, I will rejoice and dance for joy. Because I accepted the challenge and I beat the challenge, I beat it on legit mode without cheating, even though it took me a LONG TIME lol. Playing by the rules and overcoming challenges is what being a gamer is all about.

:)

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Time is Time... you make me giggle... I can see why you're stuck on HMPs.

I mean, I'm not going to stop you from wasting your time.
http://rs1img.memecdn.com/The-time-y...me_c_95219.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Still don't think you understand the concept of time is money here but that's OK. Jealousy can make you do strange things at times.

And I still stand by my statement to the monthly payment. Yes you gain access to the full game, of course you do. But so do F2P games... Yes you have to pay for some extra resources but so do you in ffxi, it's called a subscription which gives you more time to play. The terms are different but in core fundamentals they are the same. They both allow you to play the game for a longer period and at the height of its enjoyment. Again, delusional...

So what if it's something I am suggesting. Not like the Devs will ever have plans to make it happen. :D

http://procrasti-nation.eu/wp-conten...e-my-money.jpg

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Ha, jealousy. Yes, I'm jealous of people that need to throw money at any obstacle they face in life because they lack the fortitude to accomplish something the hard way like the rest of us -- or simply because they're effing lazy. Makes perfect sense.

And you'd have a point if both models were actually equal, which is rarely, if ever, the case. If you think that a "piece meal" RMT model is going to give you a better deal -- or hell, even an equal one -- compared to a flat rate subscription of 13 dollars a month, I have various bridges to sell you. There may be exceptions to that rule, but in my experience, they are few and far between.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Time is Time... you make me giggle... I can see why you're stuck on HMPs.

I mean, I'm not going to stop you from wasting your time.

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Well yes time is time lol. You can choose to spend your *time* playing a roleplaying game, set in an atmospheric virtual world online, and playing your RPG character. You can choose to spend your time just messing around in that world, having fun and using the normal 119 weapons that are readily available for fairly low effort and gil. Or you can choose to spend your time working on long term goals like RME.

Money is money, and you can choose to play Failga IV games that allow the purchasing of progress. You can savour that empty hollow feeling as you buy another Hero item, that you didn't battle any monsters to get, or have fun memories of farming with your ingame friends.

In the meantime I will look forward to completing my empy, battling monsters, going on adventures with friends while trying to finish my weapon.

And by the way, your slur missed the mark. The reason I haven't finished empy is because I spend my gil on other things too, like crafting and upgrading armor sets. And I help on the LS, do a lot of stuff that isn't going to get me either gil or empy upgrade items. I'm sure if I went /fanaticmode and just put all my time and gil into my empy, it would have been finished a while ago. But I want to play many aspects of the game, such as helping other players and perfecting my crafting skills.

I'm not playing FFXI just to finish a weapon, but it is a long term goal of mine, and I really will get a physical adrenaline hit when that finished weapon is in my hand. And I will feel excited to obtain it, not *despite* it took so long and so much effort - *because* it took so long and so much effort.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Time is Time... you make me giggle... I can see why you're stuck on HMPs.

I mean, I'm not going to stop you from wasting your time.
http://rs1img.memecdn.com/The-time-y...me_c_95219.jpg

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Honestly, with your philosophy, I seriously question why you would ever even humor the idea of playing in a genre like this. What are these games exactly, if not fun, wastes of time? They have always been just that, and they will always -- at least to a point -- be just that. They are designed to take time and to reward people that work for things. If you want every, single thing handed to you up front, there are plenty of genres out there that pander to your tastes. Or, like I mentioned earlier, plenty of F2P grinders and the like that would love you and your loose wallet.

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Yeah, I understand there are plenty of pay-to-win games out there. But I disagree on "There is no good reason to bring it here also". I would think quite the opposite to this in fact. I'm sure players would love it more than you'd think. Just because there are a handful of you here saying "No, please no..." doesn't mean others are not silently cheering on SE to implement it. Like Abyssea, I believe the shop would add another good facet to this game that players can leverage.

Diversity is good in the market place yes, but why not apply within something that already exists? Just a little effort is needed to get it off the ground. :)

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Because if they were to make all games pay-to-win then players who wanted to avoid those types of games would have no where to go. That's why it's not good to make all products the same. It has the opposite effect of adding diversity to the market.

And I suspect if they added Pay-to-Win to this game you would see what population they have left almost completely disappear. Because I think Final Fantasy XI survives largely because of old-school players who appreciate the more traditional aspects of MMORPG. And pay-to-win isn't going to appeal to them at all.

Never have I said a Pay-to-Win game was the right thing to do and is what SE needs to add to FFxi. I was merely throwing the idea around here to see what you guys thought of it. Obviously you three really don't like the idea, so I'll try to shift this back to the original question. What are you're thoughts on a Cash Shop with just Vanity/Novel items being sold?

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/23996705.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Never have I said a Pay-to-Win game was the right thing to do and is what SE needs to add to FFxi. I was merely throwing the idea around here to see what you guys thought of it. Obviously you three really don't like the idea, so I'll try to shift this back to the original question. What are you're thoughts on a Cash Shop with just Vanity/Novel items being sold?

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/23996705.jpg

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Fair enough. I'll refer to my earlier post to answer your question:

The only way I could ever support something like that is if the items were purely cosmetic in nature and the developers swore an oath that all proceeds from it would go directly into development and not extra drinks in the bar after work. I would also need to see immediate results as well to confirm they were telling the truth. Then I might could hold my nose and support it.

That's how I feel about the vanity/novel shop.