What ATMAS to use

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Originally Posted by Zagen

If you can't see how Fast Cast 2 and convert add to your spell damage I don't know what to say.

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Observe, as this is what I was responding to. If you can't keep your MP pool at a level where you can most efficiently use your spells, you're not playing the job correctly.

Or I can use up my mp for dealing damage and still have regain ticking while casting spells because mp conservation doesn't really matter inside? Outside yes it's important but with all the methods for recovering MP inside I fail to see how conservation is as important as you're trying to advocate it as.

Convert's just icing if spell spamming, I didn't even use it last party.

CLARIFICATION: No idea why he said it increases spell damage myself except in the context it lets you cast spells more often, it's still not even that necessary, it just helps.

I.E. /RDM offers nothing for offense.

Moving on, spamming spells and not letting your swords do work is inefficient and a decrease in overall DPS.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

CLARIFICATION: No idea why he said it increases spell damage myself except in the context it lets you cast spells more often, it's still not even that necessary, it just helps.

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I said adds to your spell damage as in overall spell damage not increases a given spell. So yes allowing you to cast more often.

Why do you need Convert to be able to cast?

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

I.E. /RDM offers nothing for offense.

Moving on, spamming spells and not letting your swords do work is inefficient and a decrease in overall DPS.

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It's only a loss in dps if your spell damage is so poor it can't outweigh your melee dps.

Regardless this is off topic and most other posts in this thread are also off topic people should just put what atmas they use so people have an idea of what is good in differant situations not try to belittle others for the atma choices it's childish even if you have math to back it up.

The nice thing about blue mage is that its a hybrid job and there can be many differant play styles and just because one atma doesn't increase your damage specifically, doesn't mean its the same for everyone.

Players should only use this thread as a starting point as to what atma to use if they have no clue how blue mage works with differant atmas and try each out for themselves not blindly follow others choices because they say its the best. Regardless of w/e math or parses they did every blue is not the same.

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Originally Posted by Habiki

It's only a loss in dps if your spell damage is so poor it can't outweigh your melee dps.

Regardless this is off topic and most other posts in this thread are also off topic people should just put what atmas they use so people have an idea of what is good in differant situations not try to belittle others for the atma choices it's childish even if you have math to back it up.

The nice thing about blue mage is that its a hybrid job and there can be many differant play styles and just because one atma doesn't increase your damage specifically, doesn't mean its the same for everyone.

Players should only use this thread as a starting point as to what atma to use if they have no clue how blue mage works with differant atmas and try each out for themselves not blindly follow others choices because they say its the best. Regardless of w/e math or parses they did every blue is not the same.

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The problem with ignoring Sword DPS in favor of spell spamming, can be summed up in 1 factor:
Haste
Haste does next to nothing for your spell DPS. Maybe shaves a second off your recast timers. But your spike dmg will always be from Chain Affinity/Efflux, and last I checked, Haste doesn't reduce JA timers.

Sword DPS that's supported with Haste buffs and proper Atma's like Razed Ruins will pull ahead of spell DPS, especially since a Sword reliant BLU can still use spells just as effectively.

The difference between the spell spammer and the balanced BLU, is that the spell spammer spends their time waiting on recast timers for their good spells, and spamming less effective spells in between. Time that could be better spent having significant sword damage output.

This notion is true both Pre and Post-Almace. And that's not even including things like Food or BRD buffs.

Alright, I'm going to have to tilt this in favor of the /RDM, and see, he has it right in the parse, if your just going to use your melee weapon (Aside from maybe an almace), go play WAR or a DD job that only usese their weapon. Something tells me that before BLU you played RDM and were one of the big advocates for DD RDM thinking it was such a great idea, aside from the fact it feeds mad TP for more then the damage its creating... BUT! At least it hits more!.... Right, anyway. Now is spell casting much better? Hell no, your still feeding mad TP (unless using magical based blue magic) on NMs and thats a bad idea, but I can tell you right now, unless your packin an Almace, or solo'n, no BLU is going to be caught dead TP'n on a NM with their swords (unless your solo). Good f*c*ing luck on that one, cuz I can tell you right now, if your not a THF, NIN, MNK, or WAR your not going anywhere near that mob with your swords. So you can try to say that you can hit more blah blah blah w/e, your not going to even use them practically anyway unless you want your party getting pissed at you, or its an exp party. I'm siding with /RDM because it is practically for spell casting in general which, is 80% of what your doing the 20% is trying to get TP for Spike Damage or Solo Skill Chains (WHICH! Is supported by VV, not Apoc, so I don't know why you would be using Apoc, unless you have no one to raise you, solo'n, have an almace, or in magic based blue magic set up. To try and argue that your triple attack VS Regain and double attack is better.... I'm sorry I'm callin BS on you, and you should know better) . VV is going to beat Apoc in DD for BLU any day of the week for DoT, WS, and Physical casting.

The guy has a point, faster casting of magic is faster casting, doesn't matter if its a couple of seconds or not, when you can make dual wield with spells alone, its not great, but it works, and yet your magic will be stronger in over all damage because your casting faster (and I'm assuming your using an isador or various other items that enhance faster casting, if not you should be). If your using magical blue magic, you got a boost from /RDM (And I don't believe in using magical accuracy swords, but I am working for 2 magical attack ones which will be nice for magic casting on my BLU, not for physicals of course thats why I have a +2 Shamshir for STR ;-)). For you to ask for the parse in which BLU over all damage is better, and then deny it saying that you can't prove it in a parse is just silly. What proof do you need? His argument is sound. If BLU was only about sword DoT you might actually have a valid argument, but unless you zergged the job and only have Pollen in your magic abilities, BLU is a job that uses magic, and contrary to popular belief, uses it a lot. And here is the real shocker! Uses it more then Melee DoT.... Hence the Blue Mage *shocker* Pretty sure if SE wanted us to focus on our Sword DoT they would of called the job Blue Warrior or something silly of that nature.

To disregard BLU's magic makes me wonder what on god's earth made you pick BLU and not PLD or something since hell at least its got an A in sword and sounds like a better fit for ya bro. I mean this kinda reminds me of a RDM that was like "Ya with all my accuracy gear i'm out parsing you in sword DoT" and I simply said "ya but at least I'm killing the mob, not acting like a poison effect" And thats what its going to come down to, who cares if you can beat on a mob and slowly widdle it away, BLU is a drag racer job, and was evident when you had to do the 70 Cap fight, its about the fastest casting and the smart casting all in one. If it were a mob that had like 30 million HP, congrats with your sword (if you haven't already died or lost the means to keep yourself alive) might actually beat out the amount of damage you could generate with MP (not counting MM, cuz god you never run out lol), but there is no such mob, nor will there ever be. So lets stop living in some fantasy world in which BLU's only use swords and disregard that weird bar that is below the HP bar, and acknowledge that the job is Blue Mage, for a reason.

Thank you =)

P.S
I would pay to see a BLU with swords only out damage and kill a mob (not using an almace) faster then me using spells, and I doubt anyone will ever deliver this, because its not possible. 4.5 QC > 1.7k Vorp Blade, end of story, debate over. =)

On weaker mobs yes, but as Prothscar pointed out in this and another thread on stronger mobs Physical spell damage is going to drop fairly drastically due to their dependence on Blue Magic attack which is pretty low and Magical nukes typically aren't worth using due to casting and recast times, in which case DoT from swords is going to win out.

Again I will say this, the day a BLU using only swords beats out my physical magic, and I don't care how big the NM I still haven't seen that happen, I'll pay some fat gil for it lol. Because I can tell ya if your doing 4k on a mob and go down to 500 on an NM or 1k, your swords going to be doing maybe like ~50 damage, and even if it did do damage. I can tell you NO LS is going to let you TP on your BLU on a big NM to begin with unless you got mass subtle blow + AGI, and even then they might still say no because your not a NIN, THF, WAR, or MNK. Pretty much if your BLU ain't packin an almace, doesn't matter how much damage your packing, your not going to be up there anyway. So the argument again, is invalid.

You might as well melee a mob if you're there for grellow anyway.

Also, crits/haste. If subtle blow/agi is an issue use GH, gives an additional +20% crit rate as well.

lol Only if its a Tier 1, you sure as hell wouldn't do that with Orthrus, or any other higher Tier NM because you could get the party killed before you proc grellow like that.

If the Blu tping on Orthrus is getting your party killed your party has more serious problems than the Blu Tping. At least mention something like Apademak.

You would tp after grellow proc anyway unless it's something you seriously can't handle.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

If the Blu tping on Orthrus is getting your party killed your party has more serious problems than the Blu Tping. At least mention something like Apademak.

You would tp after grellow proc anyway unless it's something you seriously can't handle.

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lol because Archeron Flame spam is welcomed by parties all over FFXI, though I know your point.


Anyway...

It's probably been said but:

Melee:
GH/RR/Apoc

Physical Spell Spam:
VV/RR/ your choice of STR or DEX atma. Omnipotent is really nice for them recasts and it makes Vanity Dive and Disseverment hit like a monster.

Charged Whisker:
Lion/MM/Ultimate or Lion/MM/(insert karkidan's atma here) or anything with lightning potency magic attack and MM.

Healing:
MM/Rescuer/That other cure potency atma. Say hello to 800 Plenuline and 650 Magic Fruits, and then say goodbye to RDM and SCH thinking they can cure people.

For melee, due to the crit hit damage cap being removed Sanguine Scythe currently does abit more than GH but less agi if Benthic damage/ dAGI matters, I find the 10% counter somewhat neglible for damge (nice, but it doesn't add alot).

For physical spell spam I use MM to offset the mp costs and to spam occultation.

CW: MM isn't very good if all you do is BACW, Razed Ruins would beat it, only use for MM is if you can't keep mp up (I typically /rdm and use vert/meds/soothing lights from chests).

Are you trying to tell me that you don't melee on Blue Mage? And your reason being is that you feed the monster TP? Idiocy. You're sacrificing a massive portion of your damage by thinking that you not meleeing the monster is making a lick of difference. The TP spam will happen regardless of whether you're meleeing it or not. Your wall of text concerning /RDM being favorable in comparison to /NIN is all moot as I don't believe your experience with Blue Mage is adequate if you don't even understand that meleeing a monster is beneficial. You listed THF and NIN as jobs to switch to if you want to melee, news flash: BLU is on par with or more powerful than both of these jobs. I have two Kannagi NINs in my linkshell, and a Twashtar THF, and I can say that I very comfortably match or overtake their damage on a nightly basis. Your Blue Mage is bad if you can't claim the same.

An average of roughly .1-.2 seconds of casting time on any blue magic spell is not worth losing 10% delay reduction on your swords. Plain and simple, this is not a pro to the /RDM argument. It's a negligible bonus that is completely useless. You shouldn't be using magical blue magic outside of a whisker burn, and why in God's name would you be using Magic Attack Bonus swords if you were nuking? Elemental staves say hello. I never said to base BLU's damage solely on sword DoT, but to ignore it completely is incredibly foolish and downright gimp. Your reasoning on the name of the job made me facepalm in the most literal sense of the term. Dark "Knight", where's my horse?

You need to reread everything I've said and tell me exactly where I said to completely ignore BLU's spells. I can already tell you that you've said to completely ignore sword DoT, which is the most stupid thing I have EVER read. Using BLU's 75 cap as a benchmark for how to play the job is just incredibly, frustratingly imbecilic. So stop living in a fantasy world where BLU's only form of damage is magic and swords are useless. Thanks.

P.S. I'd gladly take you up on that offer, demolishing you and watching you eat your words would be most pleasing. I'll be using my Almace, too.

P.P.S. If Acheron Flame is causing your group to wipe, get better mages and an MDT set. Seriously, that is not a reasonable excuse for leaving melee off of the mob. I've duo'd Orthrus over a dozen times and had no problems with the "incredible" amount of "tp feed" that BLU apparently causes. (Hint: THF feeds more TP than any other job in the game).

P.P.P.S. You're an idiot. Apocalypse annihilates Voracious Violet every day of the week and on days of the week that don't even exist. If you're a competent BLU that's worth a slot in the alliance that you're a part of, you're meleeing. If you're in an alliance that isn't letting you melee, leave the group. Seriously, leave the group. If you can't understand how 15% Triple Attack is leaps and bounds more useful than 5% Double Attack and 2TP/tic regain, then you need to do a lot, and I mean a LOT of research.

Your a tool lol

1. The Staves are great, sure, but I can't use any of the WS, so if I'm dd'n or need to pull out something with my swords I have that option, not to mention Charged Whisker is greatly boosted by Magic Attack more so then its Dex multiplier.
2.You clearly were starting that there is no "hybrid damage" which implies its one or the other, so get your terms straight or give more reason why nobody should listen to a ranting fool. If your not going to consider magic damage on a BLU, then your obviously only considering Melee.
3. I clearly said "not an almace" so how about you take your nose out of the sky for a moment and wake up and realize its in a pile of s**t (because again, it can't be done, thanks for proving that statement by trying to get your almace in order to prove me right, good job!)
4. 15% thats nice.... Doesn't mean it procs as often as a 2 tic regain, or the fact that BLU has access to gear that clearly supports double attack and NOT Triple attack, but hey good job, you try to get that 15% to proc while I'm sporting my Brutals, my actual JA for Double Attack (through BLU spells), my atheling mantle, my twilight Belt, and my VV, and guess what! My Physical spells will still be out damaging you any day of the week, so not only will I be beating you on WS and double attack proc, but I'll be beating you on phsyical spell damage, which is a greater portion of our damage. If your using Apoc, your a moron (or you just die alot because you were a moron to equip Apoc in the first place) and you obviously picked up BLU playing it SSA backwards because last time I checked the objective is to get our spells to do large amounts of damage not to gimp it for 15% triple attack you fool (And I'm pretty sure the only way your going to boost that is through the Homam body and Epona's Ring.... Which also boosts Double Attack, since ya know.... triple attack is a JA we can't make with BLU so ..... ya your soooo smmmmaaaarrrrtttt god I'm so jealous that I can't be as ignorant as you and think of myself as brilliant).

and just becuase I emphasized Blue Mage doesn't mean its the same emphasis for every freakin job you fool. Thats like saying if I put an emphasis on one part of a term and you putting it on that same part of every term to prove me wrong, of course the emphasis changes, in this case it would be Dark Knight since their magic is dark based. I don't think the face palming is doing you enough justice, how about you just go straight to head desk and keep going as hard as you can until you knock yourself out so we don't have to read anymore of this filth. Thank you =)

Your grammar and spelling make my eyes bleed. Also, you said that you don't melee NMs so I'm going to go ahead and say that you're fabricating everything about you meleeing.

I never said that there's "no such thing as hybrid damage". Putting words into my mouth won't win you an argument, it only makes you look like a liar and a moron. I said that the only type of damage is damage. Point me to where I said never to cast magic, go ahead.

The fact that I have an Almace changes nothing. Vorpal Blade is still a very strong weaponskill, perhaps you should take some of the dung that my nose is apparently in and wipe it all over your equipment to compliment it, because clearly you aren't using anything better than the full AF in your avatar if your Vorpals can't hit high enough to be worth using.

15% is nice, yes. 2/tic Regain is worth nothing by the time you reach 100TP. It won't be able to tic enough times to make any difference. My 18% Triple Attack will continue to outmaneuver your Double Attack while you muddle about in your incredibly awkward idiocy. if you looked passed your also caked in dung nose you would see that every single BLue Mage worth more than a farthing uses Apocalypse over VV for a very good reason: it's superior.

By your very own logic on the nomenclature of jobs, DRK shouldn't melee and should only cast their dark magic.

So call me a fool to mask your obvious inability to string together a cohesive argument and your clearly ineffectual playstyle.

Well I can see why the other guy stopped posting here, and I'm going to do the same, because you have absolutely no proof to back your standpoint in anything your saying, and well, I've given you enough to prove my statements, as so did the /RDM point of views of the other BLU, yet you want to be a stubborn @$$ who doesn't want to drink from the oasis in a desert. So keep walking around in your ignorance that is just fine (beecause hell, in order for us to know what is RIGHT, we need people who can be WRONG, so waita own up to that public duty and be the moron we all need in order to be better. There is nothing more need said with you because well.... your an idiot that figured "Hey I used to be a RDM/NIN! Why not apply the same principles to BLU/NIN! GENIUS!"

And on that comment about putting words in your mouth... oh no sir, you do that just fine on your own, its just unfortunate that you have no idea what is coming out of that hole that would be better served with a sock stuffed in it.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

It's a hybrid job, but there's no such thing as hybrid damage. You either do damage or you don't.

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And a Farthing? Really? Do you feel clever saying that? Ok Mr. Smart Stuff, how about you stop playing BLU WRONG, go back to wearing a kilt and grabbing sand and throwing it at kids shouting "Lightning Bolt!", and going into a bar demanding a "Grog of Mead" lol.

ITT: DA > TA, you heard it here first.

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Originally Posted by Scuro

And on that comment about putting words in your mouth... oh no sir, you do that just fine on your own, its just unfortunate that you have no idea what is coming out of that hole that would be better served with a sock stuffed in it.

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Statement: It's a hybrid job, but there's no such thing as hybrid damage. You either do damage or you don't.

Accusation: You clearly were starting that there is no "hybrid damage" which implies its one or the other, so get your terms straight or give more reason why nobody should listen to a ranting fool. If your not going to consider magic damage on a BLU, then your obviously only considering Melee.

Defense: I said that the only type of damage is damage. Point me to where I said never to cast magic, go ahead.

Good god you're dense. I can assure you that I'm playing BLU correctly. In fact, since you're not posting here, go ahead to a credible forum like BlueGartr with your ramblings. On second thought, don't. People don't need those such as you polluting their bandwidth. You're the very personification of why BLU is considered a weak job, (well, besides the fact that it is a weak job, but that's another day). Your stoic defense of an incredibly inefficient and wholly ineffective method of damage is in the same vein as BLUs that fulltime M.acc swords. Your ignorance blinds you. Also, I'm not from the UK nor do I plan on moving there, but my adequate usage of a recognizable and completely accurate term hardly denounces an entire culture. Racist.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

ITT: DA > TA, you heard it here first.

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Does it make your brain hurt too? 'Cause mine is gonna require an entire bottle of advil by night's end.


Here Scuro, some math to back up my claims.

1 + 1 = 2

Don't go at it all at once, take it slow. I don't want your brain to melt, that would be unfortunate. :(

P.S. My proof is common sense and putting my methods into practice for the past 6-7 months, and even before that, but before then atma wouldn't be a valid source of argument as they didn't exist, as well as the hard work of very credible posters on more credible boards than these. Where's yours?