Blue mage Job adjustments

Fix it fix it fix it!

dang, still no fix to tourbillion/barbed crescent. Bad SE! Bad!

I really don't care about having to wait for spells to be castable after setting, and not having the delay, well, yes it would be extremely abusable, the only time it's annoying is in Voidwatch and Abyssea generally, could drop it to like 30 seconds and the world wouldn't explode though.

But I -DO- care about the maximum set points we have, I realize the Dev's designed Blue Mages around the idea of having variable job traits, and that's really frigging cool, but the reality of it is: If you don't set all your DD job traits, you fall even further behind other DDs.

Yes, you do bring some utility to the party, but you have very few slots for choosing applicable utility spells, and even though we have new spells, it feels like we have so little leeway when choosing spells for a given situation, because we've got to get our DW3, Triple Attack, etc etc.

I'd love to see nearly across the board spells being made cheaper point-wise, or recieving a lot of new set points, or making some of these "necessary" combinations innate so we have more room to actually choose things.

And as someone earlier said, removing the damage-from-skill cap on old spells would be pretty neat, would love to actually use some of those iconic old spells again rather than just set them for traits and forget they exist.

They could also up the duration on our self-buffs, feels like I have to buff myself way too much, and lose a lot of DD, (Hell, do it for everyone, especially Dnc Sambas, between Steps/Flourishes/Sambas/Waltzes and the Attack-Delay from JAs, it's a wonder they ever get an attack round in.)
(Also Fix Tourbillion/Crescent!)

I'm hoping it was a ninja update...first thing I usually test on updates anymore. Of course, there was a recent update where I was just plain lucky and had several barbed and tourbillions land in a row. I guess most people were not pleased by my false excitement.

Still waiting...

At least, they say they are aware of this issue.

Bumping for much desire BLU adjustments. I could see it being real easy. Set your spells to determine the attributes/passives you get (can only be set in a mog house so a blue can't change magic out in the battle for attributes if they worry about such a thing), change it so blue magic can be used any time you want (can leave the unbridled learning ones being inaccessible without unbridled learning), and perhaps the ability to save magic setups into custom things to more quickly switch between your "set spells" in a mog house?

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Originally Posted by Elemmire

Bumping for much desire BLU adjustments. I could see it being real easy. Set your spells to determine the attributes/passives you get (can only be set in a mog house so a blue can't change magic out in the battle for attributes if they worry about such a thing), change it so blue magic can be used any time you want (can leave the unbridled learning ones being inaccessible without unbridled learning), and perhaps the ability to save magic setups into custom things to more quickly switch between your "set spells" in a mog house?

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No thank you.

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Originally Posted by Tennotsukai

No thank you.

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Why not, the set traits are the only reason to set the spells we set now and to be honest the only traits we get that are worth a damn are DW, Auto refresh, DA/triple attack Acc bonus everything else is waste of spells and points. The really crappy thing about this is you would only need to take one blu to VW in stead of two(well crappy for blus but for leaders it would be a god send).

Your not going to set defensive trait if you have half a brain, they suck for the most part for the jobs that get the full unnerfed version or take the right gear set up and atmas to be worth it(counter). The other traits we might set would be MATT bonus but chances are if you are worried about that you are AoE burning and subbing rdm anyway.

I would never change traits and would gladly take having to set them in a mog but getting to cast every spell we have. Some would be useful then for the oh crap moments but setting was a waste 99.999999999% time. The whole over powered crap is right out the window every day that goes that mnk doesn't get nerfed. They can deal both phy and magical damage and have one of the best safety nets in the game. Being able to self heal is still same safety net compared to 3 or 4 mnks boosting the crap out of their HP and keeping it there for the whole fight.

Well I like to have conserve mp set as a job trait on my blu for 2 reasons. {ONE}: It will save on your mp pool points when used. {TWO}: the cost of spells can be reduced when being casted whether it is physical or magical giving you a longer time of a casting mp pool. I don't set triple attack or double attack for 1 reason because it takes up to many blu points from setting up high number costing spells. I don't see conserve mp as a wasted job trait myself Ravenmore.

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Originally Posted by YosemiteYogorockBlondelle

Well I like to have conserve mp set as a job trait on my blu for 2 reasons. {ONE}: It will save on your mp pool points when used. {TWO}: the cost of spells can be reduced when being casted whether it is physical or magical giving you a longer time of a casting mp pool. I don't set triple attack or double attack for 1 reason because it takes up to many blu points from setting up high number costing spells. I don't see conserve mp as a wasted job trait myself Ravenmore.

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You fail so hard at understanding how the game works it is really sad. Conserve MP is truly a waste of points since spell damage falls so far behind auto attack white damage and WS damage. Casting delay is just like JA delay PUPs have to deal with. Simply put the damage your spell done was less then what auto attacking and WSing would have done in the same time it took to fire off that one spell or string of spells that is were muti-hit gear comes in and traits add to it. You failing to understand that I can see what your TP gear looks like and how much it also must fall behind the preferred set up. Blu spells are good for SC with WSs to add to your overall damage but spell spamming is a waste of time and MP and the only spell that should be spammed is sudden lunge or Head butt to stun lock a mob. Spell spamming stops being worth it once your past the low levels and you get better sword WSs.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

You fail so hard at understanding how the game works it is really sad. Conserve MP is truly a waste of points since spell damage falls so far behind auto attack white damage and WS damage. Casting delay is just like JA delay PUPs have to deal with. Simply put the damage your spell done was less then what auto attacking and WSing would have done in the same time it took to fire off that one spell or string of spells that is were muti-hit gear comes in and traits add to it. You failing to understand that I can see what your TP gear looks like and how much it also must fall behind the preferred set up. Blu spells are good for SC with WSs to add to your overall damage but spell spamming is a waste of time and MP and the only spell that should be spammed is sudden lunge or Head butt to stun lock a mob. Spell spamming stops being worth it once your past the low levels and you get better sword WSs.

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I can only agree to this, ravenmore is right in this point. BLU spells may it be physical or magical are in terms of damage lackluster and not worth it to cast unless you stack the physical abilitys with JAs to SC. The most usefull traits for blu are DA/TA/DW followed by (depending on SJ, but the SJ should be WAR wiht tripple attack trait combined) accuracy, storeTP, attack or whatever combination you want to use.

the exeption is if you are playing some form of very lowman group and need to do some other tasks in between, giving up some traits for utility (which happens very very very rarely and even in that case you will have most utility spells equip together with DA/TA/DW traits set).

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Originally Posted by Elemmire

Bumping for much desire BLU adjustments. I could see it being real easy. Set your spells to determine the attributes/passives you get (can only be set in a mog house so a blue can't change magic out in the battle for attributes if they worry about such a thing), change it so blue magic can be used any time you want (can leave the unbridled learning ones being inaccessible without unbridled learning), and perhaps the ability to save magic setups into custom things to more quickly switch between your "set spells" in a mog house?

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It's only this part I do not care about. That's it.

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Originally Posted by Tennotsukai

It's only this part I do not care about. That's it.

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Really sad how you can't see how useful this would make blu and how little it would impact you. The only reason to change magic in the field would be to set a sleep spell or more likely would be to set proc spells, if you could cast them when ever you wanted having to set spells for traits in the mg is a fine trade off. Though it being so good for the player and making sense means it'll never happen and blu will still be feared becoming over powered while monk gets to enjoy it while SE continues to tailor make events that serves mnk so well.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Really sad how you can't see how useful this would make blu and how little it would impact you. The only reason to change magic in the field would be to set a sleep spell or more likely would be to set proc spells, if you could cast them when ever you wanted having to set spells for traits in the mg is a fine trade off. Though it being so good for the player and making sense means it'll never happen and blu will still be feared becoming over powered while monk gets to enjoy it while SE continues to tailor make events that serves mnk so well.

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After a change it would just be BLU & MNK, double the jobs, still a poor choice selection.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

After a change it would just be BLU & MNK, double the jobs, still a poor choice selection.

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With that it won't be any different then it is now any way our nukes still suck and would run out of MP on one mob and still not do what a mnk could. We still wouldn't get taken to anything other VW just you would need one blu instead of 2. It would make our lives easier and less of a cluster then it is now though and mnk would still be the only real DD choice. I already went over what it would take to bring every job up to mnks level and that is a formless strikes JA and a mantra effect JA anything short of those would mean no change at all. Though SE could just stop making events and mobs that favor mnk all together and that would be the easiest way of doing things.

While I don't actually support that change, I think there are better, more interesting ways to fix Blu without losing the interesting design choices at their core, I do agree your proposal wouldn't bring Blu suddenly to monk levels, it would increase our power, but not by all that much, and I think it would weaken the overall design of Blu, and make them hesitant to create new, powerful spells.

As I've said many times, I'd rather see buff durations increased, universal ability/spell delay decreased, set point cost decreased, and useless spells improved, it would improve several jobs that are behind.

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Originally Posted by Selindrile

While I don't actually support that change, I think there are better, more interesting ways to fix Blu without losing the interesting design choices at their core, I do agree your proposal wouldn't bring Blu suddenly to monk levels, it would increase our power, but not by all that much, and I think it would weaken the overall design of Blu, and make them hesitant to create new, powerful spells.

As I've said many times, I'd rather see buff durations increased, universal ability/spell delay decreased, set point cost decreased, and useless spells improved, it would improve several jobs that are behind.

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It no where near interesting and completely retarded since we get traits as soon as we finish setting the spells. Blu at its core is about setting the traits and learning your spells from mobs not dealing with a horrible UI and pointless casting delay combined with not using 90% of your spells ever or on;ly use them for what blu gets from traits like DW/DA/TA/ACC setting anything else in group play is meaningless since every spell you cast is time your not meleeing and no way is SE going to cut down the casting delay enough to fix that. Even in solo play outside of BCNMs and lolaby(really with the campaigns why bother) you can drop healing spells now and buff spells other then haste, you got a healer you can call and dissmiss to gain infinite MP. If we get a healer npc that can cast haste you can most likely drop that top.

We have only gotten two maybe three buffs worth the set cost(one cause it now makes Acc bonus with one spell) and time to cast them in the last...... oh wait since the job was released so what was the reason we haven't gotten anything else.

The only thing that would improve the jobs that are behind is for SE to pull it's head out its butt and do away with niche job thinking altogether and truely make every DD and healer interchangeable and hell even make whm able to nuke and blm able to heal with more and better white magic nukes and black magic heals.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

The only thing that would improve the jobs that are behind is for SE to pull it's head out its butt and do away with niche job thinking altogether and truely make every DD and healer interchangeable and hell even make whm able to nuke and blm able to heal with more and better white magic nukes and black magic heals.

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ugh that is the worst suggestion I've heard yet. Why not just get rid of all the jobs except 3 at that point?

I, for one, accept that jobs will never be precisely equal unless they are exactly the same - and if they are exactly the same there would be no point to having so many jobs.

That said, the developers could do MUCH more to improve job balance. Underpowered jobs should get more power. JA delay should be eliminated or at least cut down significantly. MP should not be such a scarce resource. Blue magic should have improved potency, decreased cast times and decreased MP cost. I can accept BLU not being as good a DD as monk - but really NO DD should be more than 5% worse than another. Maybe jobs that are DDs and also support can be 7% behind. At any rate -things can be improved without making all jobs boring an interchangable.

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Originally Posted by Olor

ugh that is the worst suggestion I've heard yet. Why not just get rid of all the jobs except 3 at that point?

I, for one, accept that jobs will never be precisely equal unless they are exactly the same - and if they are exactly the same there would be no point to having so many jobs.

That said, the developers could do MUCH more to improve job balance. Underpowered jobs should get more power. JA delay should be eliminated or at least cut down significantly. MP should not be such a scarce resource. Blue magic should have improved potency, decreased cast times and decreased MP cost. I can accept BLU not being as good a DD as monk - but really NO DD should be more than 5% worse than another. Maybe jobs that are DDs and also support can be 7% behind. At any rate -things can be improved without making all jobs boring an interchangable.

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While you think that feel good non sense works, it doesn't(hasn't since CoP). If a DD or healer isn't equal it is trashed and the player base takes the best why do you think every other MMO doesn't do this BS and try to get jobs to the exact same level. Other MMOs don't get it right all the time but they come closer to balance then FFXI will ever get(with most of their balance issues coming from PVP). What is so fun about taking the exact same set up to the fight every single time or only resorting to taking the less then perfect set up only out of sheer desperation(damn sure not getting that brd or good whm to go along with it).

Each job could do the same things just with different flavors and still be equal. Really as it is right now not much reason to have more then 3 jobs when all that is ever needed is mnk, whm, brd. I mean you have only to look at the dev post about shields and see how it is not the best players will not even consider it, SE tried and even stated that they went out and made Beatific Shield +1 close to Ochain by about 10% and it is still not even really considered for events. Parties will wait for a pld with Ochain then take a pld with out would be the case if it was 5% behind.

Then we can look back to the 75 day and look at sam. It wasn't the best DD or the most damage, many jobs could come really close to it or even kick the crap out of it with the right gear but being the best wasn't why it was taken over other DDS. The reason sam was taken was it was simply to hard to mess up so that even if you got a Dee Dee hat on foot moron, chances were he was still going to be better then a derp on any other job. It was the safe bet, when dealing with pugs or people in general and trying to put together a event of 18 + people you just went with the safe bet.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

While you think that feel good non sense works, it doesn't(hasn't since CoP). If a DD or healer isn't equal it is trashed and the player base takes the best why do you think every other MMO doesn't do this BS and try to get jobs to the exact same level. Other MMOs don't get it right all the time but they come closer to balance then FFXI will ever get(with most of their balance issues coming from PVP). What is so fun about taking the exact same set up to the fight every single time or only resorting to taking the less then perfect set up only out of sheer desperation(damn sure not getting that brd or good whm to go along with it).

Each job could do the same things just with different flavors and still be equal. Really as it is right now not much reason to have more then 3 jobs when all that is ever needed is mnk, whm, brd. I mean you have only to look at the dev post about shields and see how it is not the best players will not even consider it, SE tried and even stated that they went out and made Beatific Shield +1 close to Ochain by about 10% and it is still not even really considered for events. Parties will wait for a pld with Ochain then take a pld with out would be the case if it was 5% behind.

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well we'll have to agree to disagree then. LSes,friends, and a lot of groups will take less than the 100 per cent perfect optimal jobs if they are at least within striking distance. And there are utility aspects to jobs which are hard to quantify. The problem is MNK is so far and ahead of pretty much everything (not just damage but survivability and utility) that people don't want to take chances. You say only about "10%" from Ochain - but 10% is TOO MUCH. That's a huge difference. If it was a 2% difference then I bet people would be 100% fine with it - but taking 10 per cent more damage is absolutely huge. That's why the playerbase isn't okay with it.

I have personally been in groups where people will take less than optimal. The problem is when the gap is TOO HUGE. Like the difference between a 4-5 song bard and a 2-3 song bard is SO BIG that people aren't willing to budge. I don't blame them.

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Originally Posted by Olor

well we'll have to agree to disagree then. LSes,friends, and a lot of groups will take less than the 100 per cent perfect optimal jobs if they are at least within striking distance. And there are utility aspects to jobs which are hard to quantify. The problem is MNK is so far and ahead of pretty much everything (not just damage but survivability and utility) that people don't want to take chances. You say only about "10%" from Ochain - but 10% is TOO MUCH. That's a huge difference. If it was a 2% difference then I bet people would be 100% fine with it - but taking 10 per cent more damage is absolutely huge. That's why the playerbase isn't okay with it.

I have personally been in groups where people will take less than optimal. The problem is when the gap is TOO HUGE. Like the difference between a 4-5 song bard and a 2-3 song bard is SO BIG that people aren't willing to budge. I don't blame them.

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If it's to close why bother with the niche crap at all, 1% is the same as just equal. But then we go back to what jobs are the hardest to mess up. I can do better then many lolshout trash mnk on my blu but I had to out a lot of work into it anything less and the shout trash would come out on top. So it comes back to what is better when the guy behind the char is Dee Dee, good old lazy or just having a bad day.

Even among friends and LS mates time is the most important thing and if they feel that taking you on a sub par job isn't going to serve them, then they will just shout for a mnk and get one in a couple of mins.

As for the Oahain pld, I have gone with one of my LS Ochain plds on difficult SKCs runs were he has literately gone afk for some of the fight( was just there holding the mobs while the DDs pick them off) so I doubt a 10% difference would had done anything more then make him stay at his KB. People still shout and only take Ochain for that.

Any news on blue mage yet?

I really hope some of these new job points are worth it on blu. More spell points, yes? Macc, spell dmg are already in merit g1 but more of it would be kinda nice.

I have a feeling one of these new JPs are going to affect sp1 (longer duration) so brace yourself for that disappointing feeling among first seeing that.

After some thinking, I have a feeling we are in for a disappointing update, as usual, this upcoming update. No Tourbillion/Barbed Crescent fix, no Macc changes, probably a bad 119 af2+1, and JPs will surely be crap. Perhaps, Ranger or Monk will see some awesomeness this upcoming update, but I really doubt we will see anything on blu.

Do you think Ravenmore is a bit harsh in her language when she posts here? Do you feel she she could swear a bit less in this thread/a bit less when she posts? Do you feel she bashes everyone who doesn't agree in her ways to how blu should be? Well the fact does still remain blu has MP therefore its still considered a mages job and mage jobs usually aren't considered to be a DD job. Monks don't have mp, which makes them more dd dedicated and one less part of the job that they do not have to worry about. If you love monk that much then just play monk instead of blu to which would be a common reply by others inside the game to the job with the comments ravenmore has suggested. I gather she is not one of the religious folks? Anyways, going off the thread a bit again. I would say, you shouldn't set up jobs to rely-on some one else/depend on others or that others will always be there to help you on blu with whm or supportive jobs to be able to set less job traits. I would also say the reason you shouldn't rely on others in your job because there is the fact that mishaps can happen & your blu's jobs instincts would end up defending for your self to stay alive. ravenmore seems to want ffxi to turn out to be like other games while forgetting how FFXI is suppost to be different then other games and how it's an MMO game. Anyways I know Ravenmore will be the one to blow back at me for something I have said here and she will feel her ego has been hurt and needs to defend it in someway? I just don't see anyway around what she thinks how blu should be with out here lashing back at us. I wont continue this any further her simply because now that i'm hardly on topic of this forum at all. Do any of you agree?

While I rarely agree with Ravenmore, I don't think s/he is abusive or offensive or particularly egotistical. Opinionated, sure, but who here isn't?

Ravenmore is certainly no Inafking or even Draylo, whom I agree with positionally a little more often than Ravenmore, but no, I don't think that Ravenmore's posts are very abrasive, is about the normal timbre of post on this forum.

In fact I dislike your posts far more than Ravenmore's, mostly because of formatting/lack of spacing/difficulty to read and follow.

Well, no Tourbillion fix but at least more spell points.

I have played many MMOs and seen how bad SE is at balance and how niche jobs or classes don't work due to human nature. The VW proc system was the closest SE has ever came to real balance and that was mostly a gimmick that forced you to take the weak jobs. It is up to the dev to ensure that jobs are needed or wanted in content other wise the player base will always go with most useful, the easiest to gear and hardest to derp.

I could just join the nerf mnk bandwagon but that doesn't really make things any better and doesn't solve the core issue. Once mnk is hammered down into the ground then the next job that is derp proof would rise and most likely would just be sam again.

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Originally Posted by Selindrile

While I rarely agree with Ravenmore, I don't think s/he is abusive or offensive or particularly egotistical. Opinionated, sure, but who here isn't?

Ravenmore is certainly no Inafking or even Draylo, whom I agree with positionally a little more often than Ravenmore, but no, I don't think that Ravenmore's posts are very abrasive, is about the normal timbre of post on this forum.

In fact I dislike your posts far more than Ravenmore's, mostly because of formatting/lack of spacing/difficulty to read and follow.

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Problem Solved. I'll just stop posting on the forum's all together and leave it to the professionals or professional writters to be the only one's who write on the forums from now on. :mad: :(

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Originally Posted by YosemiteYogorockBlondelle

Problem Solved. I'll just stop posting on the forum's all together and leave it to the professionals or professional writters to be the only one's who write on the forums from now on. :mad: :(

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It's not a matter of being a professional writer, just try to break some of it up here and there. I used to post a lot like how you seem to at times, which is a large mass of seemingly never ending text that just goes on and on. It's not something to leave over, but it is something you can fix if you think about it, just at the end of your post try to look back at it, find parts that don't necessarily need to be connected to one another, and space them out a bit with a few blank lines between. It may not be all that they were talking about, but I admit, it's something that has stopped me from reading some of your posts. Large masses of text just deter me. Either way, I hope you won't leave and instead will change this aspect a bit.

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Originally Posted by YosemiteYogorockBlondelle

Problem Solved. I'll just stop posting on the forum's all together and leave it to the professionals or professional writters to be the only one's who write on the forums from now on. :mad: :(

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Your posts are actually way easier to read now than they were to begin with. You'll need a bit of thick skin to post things on the internet, this forum is no exception. Ravenmore's posts are "fine. This stuff is completely off topic as well.

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Originally Posted by YosemiteYogorockBlondelle

Problem Solved. I'll just stop posting on the forum's all together and leave it to the professionals or professional writters to be the only one's who write on the forums from now on. :mad: :(

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Do you not see the irony in this?

You: "Hey, can we all get mad at Ravenmore's way of posting online together?"

Me: "Ravenmore's way of posting is fine, in fact I'd consider yours more annoying." (a few likes)

Then you get upset that people are bothered at you the way you wanted them to be at Ravenmore.

Doesn't this strike you as a bit hypocritical? At the end of the day, none of it is a big deal to me, you asked my opinion and I gave it.

There are really no professional writers on here that I can think of, but some people make more of an effort for their posts to be readable, and it does help. But I in no way implied that you should leave the forum or that I disliked you personally in any way, I just said I dislike your posts more because I find them difficult to read and follow.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Your posts are actually way easier to read now than they were to begin with. You'll need a bit of thick skin to post things on the internet, this forum is no exception. Ravenmore's posts are "fine. This stuff is completely off topic as well.

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Thanks for the confidence quote with a bit of cheering up and you seem to be a person with good qualities on life.

Now Lets get back to the matters of being blue. {depressed} =)) <-{A Laughing Emoticon.}

Well what I really mean is lets get back to the matter's at hand of getting the blue job to be fixed and we will all have different thoughts & opinions on how the job should be fixed, therefor all of us wouldn't necessarily come into a total agreement on how the blue job should be fixed.

I wonder what the dev team has to say on blu's current state. Fix us

Well... Job points addressed 1/3 if the issue... Still need more blue spell slots !!!!!!

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Originally Posted by evanwimbish

Well... Job points addressed 1/3 if the issue... Still need more blue spell slots !!!!!!

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What are some adjustments you think blu deserves the most now?

I don't agree with OP at all. I don't care if it is annoying proccing in VW, then that issue should be fixed by making less BLU spells proc it. There should be a downside to being flexible.

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Originally Posted by Spook

I don't agree with OP at all. I don't care if it is annoying proccing in VW, then that issue should be fixed by making "less BLU spells" proc it. There should be a downside to being flexible.

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Are you suggesting having less blue spell's as a processor?

No, he isn't.

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Originally Posted by Spook

I don't agree with OP at all. I don't care if it is annoying proccing in VW, then that issue should be fixed by making less BLU spells proc it. There should be a downside to being flexible.

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Sure I would agree with you if not for mnk and how SE was creating content that catered right to it. They have backed away from that a bit with delve 2.0 but not they didn't really solve the problem.