Trust, is extremely annoying

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

I doubt anyone condones this sort of action, but just because some people are fools and asses with this system does not mean the system itself is bad, it means the people using it are bad, or rather, the people using it are, shall we say... intelligence deprived.

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That was the entire point of the thread.

Fighting over camps is nothing new and has nothing to do with the Trust system.

No but the system has exacerbated the problem

Well Trust is here to stay so it's time to adapt. In you're truly a better player than those who rely on Trust you'll find better camps then they could ever hope to handle.

If gimps want to use gimptrust then they should be the ones to find exotic camps and not get the luxury of the easiest and quickest, since they're using an entire party to do so.

Take your self centered attitude elsewhere.

I am not gimp, I use Trust unless people offer to team up, why? No reason not to, if that bothers you, that's to bad.

Also, if Trust is 'gimptrust' as you call it and its so bad then really a gimp player using it should be just as good as you at very best, which means they likely need the easier camps more than you do now don't they? Especially when you, a non-gimp as you seem to think of yourself as, can use the same Trust system to get that extra power making you do even better in those harder areas.

Really couldn't care less what gimps need tbh

The last thing we need is more "in the way people".

Play without training wheels and you might actually accomplish something.

If abyssea was allowed to be used on the new challenges it wouldn't be nearly as big of an annoyance, but when you see 30 trust npcs killing mandragoras it makes my blood boil.
Literally disgusting.

So find another place to go, there are plants all over the game, Ceizak, Yorcia, Boyahda, Woodlands, and more, there are no reasons that someone else should go somewhere that do not apply to you just as well except you feel like your special and better and thus deserve to force them to move rather than them bother you with their presence. If you can not live in the areas you goto, shut up, use Trust, get your 2 WHMs and your BRD, cast them, and kill what you need.

Well actually got a few people to respond to team up shouts today. Even eventually managed a full pt lol. But took awhile and for a decent part of the building it was basicaly a bunch of groups of people soloing with there trust npcs hoping to get 1 kill every 5 minutes.

Really though when your doing the same thing as everyone else and refusing to team up (trust or not) it's kinda a jerk move. Trust is just making it easier on harder stuff. If you really hate playing with people that much why not as suggested go somewhere more out of the way so you wont even have to deal with them at all?

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Originally Posted by Karah

Really couldn't care less what gimps need tbh

The last thing we need is more "in the way people".

Play without training wheels and you might actually accomplish something.

If abyssea was allowed to be used on the new challenges it wouldn't be nearly as big of an annoyance, but when you see 30 trust npcs killing mandragoras it makes my blood boil.
Literally disgusting.

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Wait... So using Trust NPCs is "literally disgusting" but loading up with atma and curor buffs while taking on vastly underleveled mobs is not "playing with training wheels?"

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs46/i/20...sethemoose.jpg

Only made mention of abyssea because the enemy fields repop and die very fast, making accomplishing the kill 20 objective take 1 minute instead of 2 hours fighting with 30 other trusts. Therefor not needing them.

Basically, don't use trust if you're worried about Karah's feelings. If you want to play the game, carry on.

Well I guess im unskilled for levelling my geomancer on crawler's nest GoV pages using trust instead of gimping it up as an abyssea key whore.

See you're not understanding.

Using the trusts TO LEVEL is TOTALLY FINE.

Using 3 NPC's to complete the ROE kill 20 enemies when there are 200 other people all doing that instead of team up, IS NOT. THAT is what is EXTREMELY ANNOYING.

Simply, trust should not be allowed to be used in Adoulin areas, problem solved.

NPC fellows had (have) a TON of restrictions, that have been improved every 6 months or so. Trust should've had the same restrictions.

They helped speed up VWNM pops for magian trials, especially for shoggoth and for removing petrifacation. I havent tried it yet but is it even possible to skill up enhancing or healing magics on them? Kind of sucks though, you'll only get songs and whm buffs when engaged with an enemy. Or how the two (assumed) best blm in vanadel become completely useless in long/multi fights after running out of mp. Drawback: can't release them and re summon them when in combat. You can always re summon and Adv fellow though with a charged tactics pearl.

Otherwise I just see alot of people just standing around showing off their new showponies in obscure areas.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Using 3 NPC's to complete the ROE kill 20 enemies when there are 200 other people all doing that instead of team up, IS NOT.

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Reasonable complaint.

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Simply, trust should not be allowed to be used in Adoulin areas, problem solved.

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Unreasonable solution.

I agree with your using 3 npcs to kill 20 enemies where there are 200 other people thing (assuming they are willing to team up, not always the case)

Disagree with blanket statement of gimpness or bad playered-ness.

People bitched about not being able to get some stuff done without seeking or trying to form groups for hours. or not being able to log on for short times and achieve anything cause of lack of available or willing players. Trust is one of their solutions for this (they been mentioning adjustments to solo content for the last few months). The bad thing is the people unwilling to dismiss the trusts when there are others willing to help. Like many magian trials in the past when couple players dont want to team up for a nm trial but i team up with anyone willing to and we outclaim them and even offer an invite when we do and they refuse thats just fucking stupid!

For me if i am playing on my monster and there is say a limited time quest going for a mob in my area, i will sometimes go with my mule somewhere else and use trust to finish the goal for him instead of stopping what i am doin on my monster for 10 or so minutes to finish the goal together. I try to go to out of the norm places where there are tons of mobs available or no players tho cause i dislike competing for 3 mobs, as long as it isnt too ridiculous to get there.

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Originally Posted by Calatilla

Well I guess im unskilled for levelling my geomancer on crawler's nest GoV pages using trust instead of gimping it up as an abyssea key whore.

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Psh screw that leech! That said nowadays I'd actually rather level outside just for more RoE goodness. Daddy needs more RF+1!

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Reasonable complaint.

Unreasonable solution.

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Feel free to think of a better solution, eliminating them from all Adoulin content is the only one I can think of.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Feel free to think of a better solution, eliminating them from all Adoulin content is the only one I can think of.

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Move all the people that don't want to use trust, or abby, or any "easy mode" to another server where everything like that is disabled, go back to the way dynamis used to be, take out the easy mode stuff, no events, because that's not really "leet" stuff, etc... Leave all the people who don't really care about other people using trust alone on their servers.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Feel free to think of a better solution, eliminating them from all Adoulin content is the only one I can think of.

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Stopping people from using them in Adoulin zones won't make them team up though, SE will let trust be summoned while in a party at some point (at least they said they were looking into it) so people can have the best of both worlds I guess, but people who are anti-social will always be anti-social.

I agree that people who would rather fight 30 people for 15 mobs instead of teaming up for quicker kills is annoying, it's the only thing that annoys me about the way some people use trust but Adoulin isn't the only place RoE works and if someone wants to solo 20 mobs instead of teaming up for 5mins then that's their loss.

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Originally Posted by Calatilla

I agree that people who would rather fight 30 people for 15 mobs instead of teaming up for quicker kills is annoying, it's the only thing that annoys me about the way some people use trust but Adoulin isn't the only place RoE works and if someone wants to solo 20 mobs instead of teaming up for 5mins then that's their loss.

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It's not just their loss though, it's aggravating to the OTHER people as well, it's simply just rude quite actually.

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Originally Posted by Bamph

Move all the people that don't want to use trust, or abby, or any "easy mode" to another server where everything like that is disabled, go back to the way dynamis used to be, take out the easy mode stuff, no events, because that's not really "leet" stuff, etc... Leave all the people who don't really care about other people using trust alone on their servers.

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I've asked about new/different servers forever now, never going to happen.

Well the other people can just team up and kill everything can't they, and the solo person will be living off scraps. If they don't want to team up with you and your buddies then just go about your business regardless. Surely you can kill a few mobs faster than 1 person?

I don't quite get why you're placing this on Trust though, some people just refuse to team up, even before Trust NPC`s, hell I had to fight for claim on a trial NM, we were both on the same f'in path but they refused to team up.

It's solely the fault of trust that MORE players think they don't need to team up.

Certainly I can kill 5x faster than some gimp using trust, but you must not understand the pop mechanics if you don't understand why it's annoying.

While they sssssslllllllooooooowwwwwllllllyyyyyy kill one enemy it ruins the entire cycle waiting for the ones already dead to repop.

Being cost 5 seconds of downtime is enough to justify hatred toward these people. Time is money, and you're wasting it.

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Originally Posted by Karah

It's not just their loss though, it's aggravating to the OTHER people as well, it's simply just rude quite actually.

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Then its a problem with players, not with the content, your 'solution' would be punishing every player for the douchebaggery of the people you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Then its a problem with players, not with the content, your 'solution' would be punishing every player for the douchebaggery of the people you are talking about.

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Except it's content enabling it. But yes his solution is poor.

Like I said feel free to come up with something better;

RoE doesn't count while using trust?
Trust cannot be summoned @ 99?

Any possible fix is going to piss someone off, so just straight up elimination would be my vote.

get over it.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Any possible fix is going to piss someone off, so just straight up elimination would be my vote.

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Any fix will piss someone off, so lets just flat out eliminate it so we piss the most people off.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Like I said feel free to come up with something better

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Wait till you can join parties with Trust, thats my solution. If people won't team up after that they they wouldn't have either way so taking it away or keeping it will do nothing regardless and your just pissing people off by restricting it, which does nothing to help anyone.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Being cost 5 seconds of downtime is enough to justify hatred toward these people. Time is money, and you're wasting it.

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Hon, if 5 seconds of downtime bothers you that much then you're playing the wrong damn game.

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Originally Posted by Karah

This is basically what I was really trying to get at.

It's just extremely annoying to see all these trusts... when they're REALLY not necessary... I mean come on, do you really need 3 people to help you kill 20 mandragoras in your ilvl 119 gear in ceizak... serously?

That's what I'm talking about, its a CRUTCH and a huge one, people think they need the Trusts FOR EVERYTHING. It's pathetic.

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I don't need the Trust NPCs, but they make it easier. Why would I intentionally make something more difficult?

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Originally Posted by Karah

Only made mention of abyssea because the enemy fields repop and die very fast, making accomplishing the kill 20 objective take 1 minute instead of 2 hours fighting with 30 other trusts. Therefor not needing them.

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It sounds like your entire complaint is not with Trust, but with competition for mobs for the Records of Eminence special objectives. You're going about this all wrong. I've never had one take nearly that long. It certainly doesn't help your case that you're also condescending people who use Trust at the same time.

Firstly, the limited time objectives aren't limited to the 2 hour window. You have to be logged on during that window in order to receive the quest. You have until the next quest window opens to complete it. So for the 6-8 AM objective, you need to be logged in between 6 and 8 AM, but you have until 3 PM (when the next one comes to overwrite it) to finish.

Secondly, camps will be more crowded early on but open up more as time goes by. I did "Vanquish Beasts" in Uleguerand Range in about 10 minutes at 12:15 AM last night.

Lastly, given that you kill mob families (i.e. plantoids) instead of specific mob types (i.e. mandragora), your options really open up. Also, there's no rule that says you have to do it on a level 99 job. For plantoids, hop on a level 1 job and kill mandragora in the Sarutabaruta region. If you don't have a low level job, use Monstrosity; those kills count too. I've done several RoE objectives in starter zones on low level monstrosities.

It sounds like your problem is that you have a very limited set of options in mind and don't like that a bunch of other people also have those limited options in mind and are overcrowding you. For the "Vanquish" objectives, go look up the FFXI bestiary, pick a mob family, and go somewhere that isn't so crowded.

Speaking of RoE... there are several objectives like "Clear 5 Colonization Reives" and "Clear 5 Lair Reives" in such and such area. These are pretty easy to solo with my Trust NPCs, but virtually impossible without. I'd like to clear these objectives, but nobody wants to go around clearing reives all over Adoulin for nothing. I usually summon Mihli, Trion, and Kupipi because they're all healers, while I dish out the damage.

But see now, you want to eliminate this possibility because you can't do RoE special objectives in exactly the way you want. No thanks. I'd rather have a shot at accomplishing my objectives.

You really try too hard, and must be oblivious to hyperbole, but that happens with text.

I run past these idiots with trusts and go somewhere else, but everytime I see them, it's hard not to literally vomit.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Hon, if 5 seconds of downtime bothers you that much then you're playing the wrong damn game.

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I'm ok with natural downtime, of course that's going to happen, but gimpcaused downtime is unacceptable.

Then go do a different area, I assure you every camp is not populated and if your just doing the common ones where everyone else goes you're the only one to blame.

Hmmm...

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Originally Posted by Karah

Really couldn't care less what gimps need tbh

The last thing we need is more "in the way people".

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You sure have some cute attitude there towards your fellow players. I somewhat wonder how many of those frequenting these particular forums appreciate it. I'm sure you don't mind either way, however. ^^

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Originally Posted by Karah

Play without training wheels and you might actually accomplish something.

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Heh. That's funny, and really makes me think of players using third-party 'helpers'. I think I'll resist going further on that thought for it would be off-topic, and wouldn't accomplish a thing.

Yet it seems I could not resist mentioning it.

Battletoads!

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Originally Posted by Karah

If abyssea was allowed to be used on the new challenges it wouldn't be nearly as big of an annoyance, but when you see 30 trust npcs killing mandragoras it makes my blood boil.

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I believe they already stated that Abyssea will be a thing in the future, but I may remember wrong.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Literally disgusting.

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Literally what one might say about your attitude, too. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Karah

I run past these idiots with trusts and go somewhere else, but everytime I see them, it's hard not to literally vomit.

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Seems perilous indeed. Have you thought about consulting a doctor?

I'm seriously worried about your health especially for when you can find one to three players making a full alliance with these things. :S

Jests aside, I understand that in its current form, and under certain circumstances, one can feel negatively about this Face Faith Trust magic, but to this extent? It does seem a bit much. If players are not teaming up I believe there's a high chance of them not teaming up either way, NPCs or no NPCs.

I haven't had any issues with it, really, but like I said, I can imagine the situation quite easily even though I only did these Records of Eminence objectives a few times, and I haven't used the NPCs myself aside from a few quick tests (I find them a bit creepy, personally).
All in all, I do think it's a nice idea, although obviously not a finished one. I also understand that many a player simply prefers to 'be alone' if they can, and this probably helps those players a bunch. In any such situation, I'm likely to simply relocate myself.

I most certainly can't be bothered to be angry about it, since essentially, the only thing any of us here is doing is wasting time, and if I'm not enjoying a particular waste of time, only then will that time truly become wasted (and I'll perhaps stop wasting it).

That said, I sometimes do wonder how people do it, or why. Why do people use their energy into being angry about things in general. It certainly doesn't seem the most constructive nor the most productive way to suggest adjustments and/or improvements.


Well, that's just a theory. A Dragoy theory.

(No ill meanings went into constructing this post.)

I just wanted to bump this, as I noticed Starcade posted about me #livingthedream.
http://darkrenegadesmusings.blogspot.com/

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

Hmmm...
You sure have some cute attitude there towards your fellow players. I somewhat wonder how many of those frequenting these particular forums appreciate it.

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Apparently none of them =/ no one ever takes the time to complain to me in game ==//

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

Literally what one might say about your attitude, too. ^^;

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I'm a prick, no one is shocked.

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

one can feel negatively about this Face Faith Trust magic

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One can, and should feel negatively about this system

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

Well, that's just a theory. A Dragoy theory.

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Shout out to The Game Theorists;
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo_...EVNcf8hw1Kku7w

Good reply. ^^


As for realistic adjustments, instead of restricting this feature, I wonder if they could create more incentives towards party-play. Perhaps more Records of Eminence objectives that require a party, similar to the level-sync one, and perhaps the reward would scale up as the party gets bigger?

I don't know. I can't tell if people would team up even then.

I do find it amusing that the so called "elite" players expect the so called "gimp/noob" players to party up now because they get in the way of the elite players doing a event/quest. They seem to forget that many of these players got used to playing solo as they could not get into parties because they were "gimp".

I am sure everyone remembers and still sees the shouts for parties, stating "Delve/relic/Mythic/Emperyan" weapons only.

I agree that people should group up for these RoE quests, but you cannot blame people for playing solo when they have been forced to solo most of the time and are excluded from certain events because the "elite" players class them as "gimp".

Karah's view of "Trust is stupid and is training wheels for baddies." is a really ridiculous view, one could say the same of pretty much anything in the game:

"People who use cure spells are baddies who aren't good enough to not take damage, they're training wheels and should be removed from the game, people who aren't good enough to make proper use of Utsusemi and Stuns should just quit, it makes me projectile vomit whenever I see someone casting cure."

Is a statement with equal logic.

That said, there is a problem with trust, as much as I like it, this is a situation that comes up often:

Six people need 20 merits to go fight an AA battle, their options are as follows:

1.) Create a fast paced xp party and go fight things, Bard+Whm+Mnk x4.
2.) Everyone go Monk, pull out Trust NPCs, and fight solo in seperate areas.

The problem is that option two is CONSIDERABLY faster than option 1, to such an extent that grouping really punishes players and delays the time they take in accomplishing goals, therefore, people don't team up.