Costume system

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Originally Posted by Edyth

Is anyone else a bit sad that no more blinking will mean that gear swap macros will no longer allow us to sheathe/draw weapons while moving, and to use JAs while moving? It's been years since I've been forced to stand still for a blood pact command. I'm always running while issuing those now because the mandated gear changes for blood pacts have eliminated the animations for issuing a pet command.

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Technically it sounds like an option you can not use if you'd like. So there's that.

I have wanted a costume system forever, this makes me so happy to finally get it.
I've mainly wanted this for my character when its fighting in the tp building phase because that tends to be the most visually ugly and mismatched set that you spend a majority of your time in.

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Originally Posted by Eaglestrike

Technically it sounds like an option you can not use if you'd like. So there's that.

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It would be the best if we can choose whether we blink or not. Utilize blinking to get rid of animation lock is 1 way of playing the game.

On the other hand, playing healing without using 3rd pt tool is quite annoying because of blinking.

I can finally wear full blu relic!

Ok. That's...nice and all. Now that:

• We've lost 3/4 our player base to XIV or other alternatives
• You are recycling content we've had since 2003 (RoZ)
• Important events REQUIRED for weapon upgrades are dying/dead (Voidwatch)
• REM players are forced to spend weeks/millions to make their weapons viable again after being shafted to begin with for almost a year.

The fact that a project level of this capacity is even being CONSIDERED by the staff bothers me. The new armor sets, including these new sparkly new AF upgrades, look like Vana'diel just puked out a 99 [insert job here] from Valkurm Dunes. While I always appreciate new things to do and new content to be challenged with, am I supposed to expect to be fighting Hard/Extreme mode Promathia in a year from now in my Leather Jerkin? A simple adjustment to a monsters level and SE labels it as new content. That's pretty embarrassing, even for me.

Vanity system is great. I'm sure a lot of players will be happy about it. But SE, you have far bigger problems to worry about. You're not going to win back players and retain current ones without picking up your slack everywhere else. You've deemed it necessary to give us vanity slots, before we ever get race changes, character customizations, a plethora of other additions or fixes for bugs that have existed for years, and updates for currently viable (but now dying/dead) content.

I've been fairly quiet and understanding over the past 12 years, but this bothers me.

I'm all for the "blink me not" integrated functions, but while what I'm about to say may seem anachronistic, I'm against features that allow you to look like you're equipping an item different from the one you're equipping.
I know such a feature became quite liked in other games (WoW, soon FFXIV too) but personally I don't like it.
I recognize its value and its pros, but they do not counterbalance their cons, imho.

Especially in an "old" game like FFXI, child of another era, how your character looks is part of your "social status", of who you represent, of the hardship to obtain that specific item you're showing off.
Destroying this "social mechanism" would mean that yet another thing of what FFXI used to be and represent would be lost forever because of fanservice.
I know I'll probably be a lonely voice, but I'm against such a feature if it's not LOCAL on your machine, but for everybody.
If it's something just local (like some Windower addons) then it's no problem. It would change how YOU see your character, not how OTHER PEOPLE see you, I have no problem at all with this.

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Originally Posted by Blace

Ok. That's...nice and all. Now that:

• We've lost 3/4 our player base to XIV or other alternatives
• You are recycling content we've had since 2003 (RoZ)
• Important events REQUIRED for weapon upgrades are dying/dead (Voidwatch)
• REM players are forced to spend weeks/millions to make their weapons viable again after being shafted to begin with for almost a year.

The fact that a project level of this capacity is even being CONSIDERED by the staff bothers me. The new armor sets, including these new sparkly new AF upgrades, look like Vana'diel just puked out a 99 [insert job here] from Valkurm Dunes. While I always appreciate new things to do and new content to be challenged with, am I supposed to expect to be fighting Hard/Extreme mode Promathia in a year from now in my Leather Jerkin? A simple adjustment to a monsters level and SE labels it as new content. That's pretty embarrassing, even for me.

Vanity system is great. I'm sure a lot of players will be happy about it. But SE, you have far bigger problems to worry about. You're not going to win back players and retain current ones without picking up your slack everywhere else. You've deemed it necessary to give us vanity slots, before we ever get race changes, character customizations, a plethora of other additions or fixes for bugs that have existed for years, and updates for currently viable (but now dying/dead) content.

I've been fairly quiet and understanding over the past 12 years, but this bothers me.

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You sound like a homeless person who when given an apple says "what's the matter mr. Money bags? Too cheap for a hamburger?"

When the previous director answered people's cries to fix blinking he basically said it was impossible, now we have a new director who is looking for a way around it AND giving us a system where we can wear what gear we want and all you can say is "why you no do good things?"

Yaaaaay they do listen *dances happily*

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

I'm all for the "blink me not" integrated functions, but while what I'm about to say may seem anachronistic, I'm against features that allow you to look like you're equipping an item different from the one you're equipping.
I know such a feature became quite liked in other games (WoW, soon FFXIV too) but personally I don't like it.
I recognize its value and its pros, but they do not counterbalance their cons, imho.

Especially in an "old" game like FFXI, child of another era, how your character looks is part of your "social status", of who you represent, of the hardship to obtain that specific item you're showing off.
Destroying this "social mechanism" would mean that yet another thing of what FFXI used to be and represent would be lost forever because of fanservice.
I know I'll probably be a lonely voice, but I'm against such a feature if it's not LOCAL on your machine, but for everybody.
If it's something just local (like some Windower addons) then it's no problem. It would change how YOU see your character, not how OTHER PEOPLE see you, I have no problem at all with this.

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I like how you look reflect your social status too, but I think they're planning an option to turn it off or something. So you can still show off gears if you just choose to turn it off.

Imho it all depends if it's a local client-side feature or a server-side feature.
1) Client-Side => You change how your character appears on YOUR screen. Everybody else will see the gear "normally"
2) Server-Side=> You change how your character appears on EVERYBODY'S screen.

Number 2) is how things workin WoW, soon in FFXIV and other games as well.
I don't like it but in WoW works for some simple reasons, mainly because there is a lot of low quality gear, and because in WoW tipically you have ONE item per slot, and you don't change it until you get an upgrade. Progression is very linear and side-grades are almost non existant.
In FFXI the model is very different. Even after the addition of ilevel, we still have a plethora of gear that we change and swap for several purposes (JAs, precast, midcast, spells, WS, idle, PDT, blahblah) and sometimes an higher ilevel doesn't even mean that the item is going to be completely better than a lower ilevel one.

In a game that uses such a model allowing people to set how OTHER PEOPLE see the gear you're equipping is, imho, very wrong.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

You sound like a homeless person who when given an apple says "what's the matter mr. Money bags? Too cheap for a hamburger?"

When the previous director answered people's cries to fix blinking he basically said it was impossible, now we have a new director who is looking for a way around it AND giving us a system where we can wear what gear we want and all you can say is "why you no do good things?"

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Terrible, terrible analogy. It shows you either skimmed my post or missed the point entirely.

What I sound like is a homeless person who's been given new shoelaces when my shoes are falling apart. New shoelaces are nice, but do absolutely nothing for me in the long run when things as a whole are breaking down. [EDIT: And if we're considering this analogy, I'm not a 'homeless person', I'm a consumer that has paid upwards $3,000 in subscription fees in support of SquareEnix's continued operations.] "We're aware the game is falling apart, dying because we aren't making proper adjustments for the player base and the game's current condition. To compensate, here's a cookie."

So no, Cabalabob. What I am saying is "why you no do relevant things that affect the game's drastically failing health". People have dealt with the gear blinks for all these years and it's never been game breaking, and this is coming from a WHM. To try and pose it as some sort of godsend of an adjustment in comparison to real game problems is laughably ridiculous, at best.

I dunno but it sounds kinda optional to me, AKA you have to lock it so you can still blink if you prefer. Personally i think it might be annoying having to lock every time you zone or having to remember to but we will see how it is implemented. Too bad avoiding the movement lock using gear swaps doesnt work with dancer JAs.

I dunno bout tthis "social status" thing you are speaking of, I never saw someone in particular gears and though "oh wow that guy is soo cool and better than me." I honestly could care less what you look like or what you are wearing. But im pretty sure this is just an appearance thing, when you check someone you would probably still see what gear they are wearing, and I dont think you will be able to lock the appearance of an item you havent obtained. But it sure would be nice if you could lock in say full Charis gear which looks great instead of a mixed set, where you might be wearing 2 or 3 aurore gear which ruins your whole look with blaring pink against the dark color or charis armor (just an example though it would prolly be outdated now)

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Originally Posted by Blace

So no, Cabalabob. What I am saying is "why you no do relevant things that affect the game's drastically failing health". People have dealt with the gear blinks for all these years and it's never been game breaking, and this is coming from a WHM. To try and pose it as some sort of godsend of an adjustment in comparison to real game problems is laughably ridiculous, at best.

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Yeah, how could adding an industry-standard feature do anything to keep people from leaving?

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Yeah, how could adding an industry-standard feature do anything to keep people from leaving?

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You must be new to gaming, but that's ok. Industry 'standards' for games do not involve fluff content. Standards are structures that affect day to day operations within the game's environment, economy, and player progression. I'm sure it must be very difficult for you to comprehend so I'll put it another way.

At this point in a game's age, it doesn't matter how much extra fluff content there is or how many vanity options there are. A vanity system is not, and will never be a "standard" of games; it's an option. Regardless, the player base needs more than Barbie Dress-up for the last remaining 500-1000 per server if they expect the lifeline to lengthen. If that's your highest expectation from the dev team's resources towards this game's future then there's a problem. Logic dictates otherwise, but it's becoming very clear that's not a strong area for some here.

Most major MMOs released in recent years have a vanity option. No MMO released in recent years has the targeting problem*. To me, that means they're standards, even if it doesn't fit your customized-for-this-discussion definition.

I'm not really sure where you got the idea that anyone holds this feature as their highest expectation. I didn't say that, and I certainly don't feel that way. However, features like this, and their other recent quality-of-life updates show that the game is definitely going in a different direction than it has in the past. No, it's not making me log in every day, but it's definitely keeping my account active.

When the game has been updated so people don't feel like they're going back to the stone-age of gaming and there's some real, lasting, worthwhile content to do, they'll be able to bring the servers back to life.

*I'm aware there are workarounds, but the problem is still there. You can walk around the dogshit in the yard, but you should still probably still clean it up.

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

I dunno bout tthis "social status" thing you are speaking of, I never saw someone in particular gears and though "oh wow that guy is soo cool and better than me." I honestly could care less what you look like or what you are wearing.

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Social study 101:
Social status is part of human nature. That's why doctors/lawyers dress differently from workers. Once I dress up more formal than usual irl and another guy asked if I'm a manager or something, with a "omg you must be rich and successful" attitude, even though I'm not. In FFXI I sometimes got /tell from others if I'm wearing something rare.

Just because you don't have the thought, doesn't mean everyone else won't have. So yes, social status exist everywhere, irl and FFXI.

I agree with you that the targeting problem is non existent in other games. Saying that "most major MMO's" have a vanity option however, is very generous. In fact, there are very few top titles that come to mind; those that do only offer it as re-skins and/or appearance tabs in which the stats aren't even carried over. My definition isn't customized for this discussion. If you're using the term 'standard' you're stating something that is considered a general accepted guideline that top title MMO accept as.. well.. a standard:

• Currency, trading system (auction houses, personal stores, etc.)
• Personalized character development options (stat distribution, skill allocation, gearsets)
• Functioning and balanced class/skill system
• Challenging fights intertwined with character progression (raids, instances)
• Sources for player income (equipment/item/material sales, crafting, quests)
• Alternative leveling methods (repeatable quests, randomized instances, experience boost systems)
• Expanded content/updates to retain playerbase's interest (expansions, events, promotion of character growth, etc)
• Continued maintenance to address bugs

You will not find a successful MMORPG that does not have what is listed above. That is because these are the standards, and only a few are listed. That being said, PVP is not a standard. Vanity items are not a standard. A game being either open world or instance based is not a standard. Payment options are not standard. Heck, even character customization options don't have a standard. These are all things that would be considered to affect quality of life or are things at the developer's discretion. There is nothing "custom fit" about my statement, it's pretty straightforward.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Matsui here.
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However, as this is a very large change it will take us some time. We’ll first be looking into a feature that will allow you to keep a certain appearance temporarily.

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What I see when I read this is that a lot of time is being divulged into a system so people can look pretty. That's great, and honestly I'd be all for that... if this was about 5 years ago and I didn't feel it was a cop-out for them to counter their lazy recycling of crap gear models and forcing people back into AF1.

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For example, we are imagining a system where you could equip cosmetic equipment and lock your appearance, and then switch to your practical equipment. As an added effect, we are also planning to make it so you no longer blink when switching equipment.
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Locked appearances will automatically be removed when changing areas.

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So.. what I get from this is that this "lock" will only be activated manually every time we enter a zone, and has to be manually repeated every time. And this is only a convenient side-effect of the vanity system, and not an attempt to actually resolve the blinking issue.

Is a vanity system nice? Sure, and I wouldn't mind it. But will putting in a vanity system keep the 3/4 of the playerbase which have been playing for 5-10+ years on end? The same people that leave for something new because of severe mismanagement of endgame processes and lack of pre-planning/maintenance for content? No, it will not.

XI is dying, and its not because of XIV, or WildStar, or EQN, or any other top titles set for release this year. It's because players are done putting all their work into a game only to see it turn worthless after a single update. Players realize that they can't progress on something because SE once required large numbers for it, and since the interest and numbers no longer exist, said player is unable to progress because no update was made to adjust. Players look for new environments, new challenges with interesting mechanics, awesome looking loot, etc.. and we get.. well I've said it enough already. Point has been made.

Convince me that a vanity system is the best allocation of the developers time over the above, and I will concede. Otherwise, I feel my stance on this is entirely valid. A vanity system is the last thing we need. We've dealt with the distractions for far too many years, and it's time SE's stepped it up before everyone else steps down.

FFXI is one of the few MMO games where Server-side community still has some sort of relevance.
Much less than in the past, but it still exists as a macro-social mechanism, and personally I love it.

The amount of things you can (or can't) tell by looking at what someone is wearing and when is a beautiful additional level of depth which disappeared from modern games. It's a channel of communication we're mostly unaware of, unwilling users.
I understand how this won't matter for the majority of people, but I'll be very sad on the day when looks on gear won't matter anymore in FFXI :'(

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Originally Posted by Blace

I agree with you that the targeting problem is non existent in other games. Saying that "most major MMO's" have a vanity option however, is very generous. In fact, there are very few top titles that come to mind; those that do only offer it as re-skins and/or appearance tabs in which the stats aren't even carried over. My definition isn't customized for this discussion. If you're using the term 'standard' you're stating something that is considered a general accepted guideline that top title MMO accept as.. well.. a standard:

• Currency, trading system (auction houses, personal stores, etc.)
• Personalized character development options (stat distribution, skill allocation, gearsets)
• Functioning and balanced class/skill system
• Challenging fights intertwined with character progression (raids, instances)
• Sources for player income (equipment/item/material sales, crafting, quests)

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Currency, trading system (auction houses, personal stores, etc.)

Would love to see this happen, a personal store is something that we have already, it's a bazaar. The currency trading could allow people to get the last needed points for maybe that set of vanity armor for their mannequin.

Personalized character development options (stat distribution, skill allocation, gearsets)

That's the merit system, where we allocate our merits into additional stats and job specific abilities.

Functioning and balanced class/skill system

Yeah this one is a biggy, a lot of classes still to this day get screwed out the hoo haa. SMN being one with no different gear, and RDM? Nope, they don't even get the Atinian staff...

Challenging fights intertwined with character progression (raids, instances)

This already happens with the old endgame, which is being revamped.

Sources for player income (equipment/item/material sales, crafting, quests)

^!!!!! THIS AND THIS SO MANY TIMES. You will not believe how miserable it is making money in the beginning on just FoV and GoV for newer players. I used to make my money off of NPC'ing bird blood from Buburimu, but there needs to be something that players can do to get some good money into their pockets.

Alternative leveling methods (repeatable quests, randomized instances, experience boost systems)

Quests never really yielded much experience, I don't see them doing this any time soon. I would however like to have a quest that afte turning in listed items, you get a special dedication effect, since the cooldown on the emperor and empress bands only cover a few levels if you're low, and then you gotta wait like 16 hours, and can't hold another exp band, whereas the anniversary rings allow you to use them every hour.

Expanded content/updates to retain playerbase's interest (expansions, events, promotion of character growth, etc)

From what I've heard, FFXI has 1 more expansion coming out for sure.

Continued maintenance to address bugs

They are already doing this and are still doing this.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

how your character looks is part of.....who you represent

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This is exactly why FFXI needs such a feature. So people can look like what they want, rather than what gear currently gives them the best stats/bonuses.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

....of the hardship to obtain that specific item you're showing off.

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The system mentioned by Camate states you can lock an appearance of gear, meaning you have to actually have the gear first. Your shinies will still be shiney.

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Originally Posted by Blace

Convince me that a vanity system is the best allocation of the developers time over the above, and I will concede.

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No.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

I'm not really sure where you got the idea that anyone holds this feature as their highest expectation. I didn't say that, and I certainly don't feel that way.

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Originally Posted by Twille

Your shinies will still be shiney.

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Until they give them away on a mog pell.

I WANT TO CROSS DRESS

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Originally Posted by Numquam

I WANT TO CROSS DRESS

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I think you'll have to wait a little bit longer for that one.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

No.

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Glad we're in agreement.

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Originally Posted by Numquam

I WANT TO CROSS DRESS

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Have you tried DNC?

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Originally Posted by Blace

Glad we're in agreement.


Have you tried DNC?

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I have, but its not the same. I want a folklorico dress.

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Originally Posted by Twille

This is exactly why FFXI needs such a feature. So people can look like what they want, rather than what gear currently gives them the best stats/bonuses.



The system mentioned by Camate states you can lock an appearance of gear, meaning you have to actually have the gear first. Your shinies will still be shiney.

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It should be noted though that one of the rules states changing zones will remove the lock. This means you can't be on BLM lock appearance in AF and then switch to WAR and look like a BLM. So your shinies will still be shiny but only if you can equip them on your current job in a given location. Kind of a bummer because it'd be neat to have a SMN horn on WHM to roleplay Dagger/Eiko.

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Originally Posted by Flyinghippress

It should be noted though that one of the rules states changing zones will remove the lock. This means you can't be on BLM lock appearance in AF and then switch to WAR and look like a BLM. So your shinies will still be shiny but only if you can equip them on your current job in a given location. Kind of a bummer because it'd be neat to have a SMN horn on WHM to roleplay Dagger/Eiko.

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A FELLOW RP'ER, that's why this entire system was pitched in the first place. The players can look the part of their character while having the stats of the current fugly stuff (Sorry Yayaotl Helm, I don't mean you...you're cool)

Looking forward to giving this new system a try.

I like all of this these are incredible.

I also like the explanation in regards to PvP. The task of picking a single gear set to maximize your strengths/weaknesses then trying to leverage a particular point over an enemy in regards to their job /gear combination.

Solution System:
Open the Equip menu, and these options pop up:
Equipment (Go to your actual equipment like normal.)
Automaton (Puppetmaster or sub PUP only, still functions normally.)
Vanity (Equip armor to change appearance, rather than stats.)

In the Vanity menu, you can equip an extra head, body, hands, legs, and feet, limited to equipment you can equip normally. This gear has no effect on your stats, but overwrites your currently equipped armor in appearance. Leaving the slot empty allows you to look like your regular armor allows.

Yes yes yes I wholeheartedly approve of this!!! My character looks so dumb from the waist down cause his outfit doesn't match at all. I don't know how hard it would be to implement, but I think a lot of other MMOs have it and I've heard FFXIV will have it in the future...

Greetings,

Sorry to bump this thread, but I have some additional information regarding the new feature that will allow you to lock you appearance temporarily based off of some questions we have been receiving.

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Will using /displayhead after using /lockstyle remove the lock on my appearance?

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After locking your appearance, if you use the /displayhead command to hide your head equipment your appearance for everything else will remain locked, but your head equipment will be hidden as usual. Likewise, if you use /lockstyle while your head equipment display is turned off and then choose to display your head equipment afterwards, the gear you were wearing when you activated /lockstyle will be displayed.

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Will appearance locks be reset if we change instruments?

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Yes. More specifically, if you change your main, sub, or range equipment, the temporary lock on your appearance will be turned off. This is because these are closely related to animation and we wanted to prevent cases where you might be blowing into a boomerang when it should be a wind instrument. :p

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When this command is used, will it show the skill chain damage in the chat log that is usually hidden when changing equipment?

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Yes, both the damage and the animation of the skill chain will be displayed.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Sorry to bump this thread, but I have some additional information regarding the new feature that will allow you to lock you appearance temporarily based off of some questions we have been receiving.



After locking your appearance, if you use the /displayhead command to hide your head equipment your appearance for everything else will remain locked, but your head equipment will be hidden as usual. Likewise, if you use /lockstyle while your head equipment display is turned off and then choose to display your head equipment afterwards, the gear you were wearing when you activated /lockstyle will be displayed.



Yes. More specifically, if you change your main, sub, or range equipment, the temporary lock on your appearance will be turned off. This is because these are closely related to animation and we wanted to prevent cases where you might be blowing into a boomerang when it should be a wind instrument. :p



Yes, both the damage and the animation of the skill chain will be displayed.

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Camate, just tell the dev team to add a keyboard instrument for bards! Problem solved!

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Originally Posted by Vivivivi

Camate, just tell the dev team to add a keyboard instrument for bards! Problem solved!

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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_yIakcziNM4...zfest_2006.jpg

I was kind of hoping this costuming could include less ugly weapons as well. Would be nice to use nicer weapon models....

As i understand it, not blinking comes as a side-effect of using the feature that locks appearances. Perhaps you can just not use the appearance lock and not have to deal with animation lock?

Mr. Camate - As much as I love the idea of this costume system, it looks like I'm not going to be able to use it, as I play back line jobs. This means that I have to swap my weapon pretty much constantly, which will keep unlocking my appearance. I was really, really looking forward to this part of the March update, so it's really disappointing for me to learn this.

Could you please feed back to the developers that a solution to this problem would be really appreciated? I do understand the issues behind animations going wonky, but there must be a way to prevent this happening. I know that most of the issues with weapons will only be a factor when engaged - so perhaps the costume can disappear when we perform a problematic animation, instead of in anticipation of one? Dropping the costume when a melee attack is made with a different type of weapon would still work but let back line jobs maintain their costumes much more easily!

As for instruments, shield blocks and ranged attacks, maybe you can introduce a "generic equipment" type item to be displayed if the costume item doesn't match the action being used. In your example, if a bard is playing a song but has an incompatible boomerang equipped, the song would instead be played using the model of a generic Maple Harp or Cornette. The same would go for a player who has swapped from a bow to a crossbow or gun - a generic weapon would be used.

I really hope this can be improved soon so all players can enjoy it!

They should just make you blink when you change weapons, but always appear in the armor set you locked.
That sounds like the easiest solution.

Well alright...it's been out for awhile with not too many bugs...how about expanding it to include weapons and finding a way to let us zone to different areas without it coming off and perhaps even having a save feature so we can toss the stuff if we need to? :)