To Dev's, are there any plans to fix Neo Nyzul Isle?

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

I would not consider BLU to be one of the best melees for Nyzul.

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Quit hanging out with bad BLUs then.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

You see that bearded gentlemen with the look of disappointment on his face in the bottom right panel of your sig? That's the face I'm making right now, all of the things you pointed out are game basics, and for all your over-explanation it still boils down to pressing buttons and running forward.

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Why stop there? Why not say it all boils down to breathing, being conscious, and having enough chromosomes to have at least eight fingers to play?

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Originally Posted by Caketime

The details for the most part hardly matter outside of gear choice, being that our characters have a linear stat progression and there are literally zero differences between one character and another of the same job aside from racial bonuses and gear.

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So anyone picking up the controller or keyboard of the same character will preform the same as long as they are not a different race and have the same merits and gear. Gotcha.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

or be told to sit in the corner with RDM and BST.

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Hey, I would take a Guttler BST over a MNK to NNI.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

No.

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You know why I like you? Because you are just so constructive. How many pieces of NNI armor have you acquired too? You never told me.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

You are unable to convince me that your awesome cookie cutter strategies and ability to communicate with 5 other people via voice chat programs makes you more capable of winning an event where luck plays a huge factor in every aspect.

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Than a less skilled group? Yes. What is so hard to understand about that? More skilled players are capable of getting more jumps than less skilled and more win. Nothing hard to understand about that.

Cookiecutter groups? Oh, I see, well then. This is quickly winding down.
The old "cookie cutter" routine egh?

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Originally Posted by Caketime

I play BST and am not ideal for timed events requiring spike damage, so I'm defaulted to the corner to play craps with RDM and discuss our plans for world domination.

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I remember when I had my first job hit level cap.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

if the devs added a voice option compatible between xbawks and PC it would be that much easier to keep everyone on the same page in situations where lamps need to be fondled in a specific order and what have you.

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You are posting on a PC I imagine? How many people have xbox, play this game, and do not have a PC they can use a VOIP program with?

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Quit hanging out with bad BLUs then.

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I go BLU to NNI..

I said it is very acceptable to bring. Certainly not going to keep up with the Rag DRKs using last resort and resolution spam. I did go on about if there is a BLU then there is no reason for a MNK imo too, but perhaps that did not make my feelings to clear on the matter.

90% of the BLUs are bad anyway how can you not hang around with them? My favorite are the ones in VW with almace and genbus shield sub war or blm. See that one a lot somehow.

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Originally Posted by Mostfowl

NNI is boring, lack-luster endgame content that is unimaginative and NOT skill based.

We win...heres how. Go in 2 sch (capped enhancing w/enhancing gear merits), 4 sam all geared to the teeth with macro gear and empy, everyone on vent. Go in buff/embrava sams run in different directions using speed gear like powder boots to make them get where they need to go faster, both sch stay at lamp, sam finish objective > move to the next floor reapply embrava and repeat. NO SKILL NEEDED so I call bs on anyone saying its skill related. Gear yes, skill no.

Lamp floors, easy. Everyone is on vent. Make order and same time lamps easy sch can accession > snk/inv > powder boots for flee, get to lamps using vent to talk you can take down the order fast, by now there is usually someone back at lamp since there is rarely, if ever 6 lamps on a floor. Lamp floors can be faster than kill all floors if everyone knows the drill.

Bosses > buff/zerg/win/disappointedface

All the ppl who win this sans cheats need no real skill. And the ppl who cheat...well thats true laziness. It all really comes down to what floors the rng wants to spit out

sam/sch are the only jobs needed so if you dont have one of these with capped skills and geared to the teeth, you are S.O.L. son.

So yes it does need to be tweaked for time extensions and what not, make it open to more ppl/jobs so more ppl can enjoy it. As it is right now...well there's a reason staff changes are being made

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Wow pal talk about false information, War/Drk/Mnk work aswell as Sam haha muppet.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Why stop there? Why not say it all boils down to breathing, being conscious, and having enough chromosomes to have at least eight fingers to play?

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You're right, we'll go with that.

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You know why I like you? Because you are just so constructive. How many pieces of NNI armor have you acquired too? You never told me.

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Re-read my previous post, I answered your question. Thanks for the compliment, you're a pretty swell guy yourself. :3

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Than a less skilled group? Yes. What is so hard to understand about that? More skilled players are capable of getting more jumps than less skilled and more win. Nothing hard to understand about that.

Cookiecutter groups? Oh, I see, well then. This is quickly winding down.
The old "cookie cutter" routine egh?

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Remember what I said earlier about neither of us convincing the other? This chunk of text supports that.

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I remember when I had my first job hit level cap.

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Oh you. All of my jobs are displayed on the AH website if you really care to look at it and leave a snide comment. I play BST because of my odd work hours and time schedule, properly gearing a solid DD is a massive time investment and I just don't have enough hours in my day to work on it effectively. With BST I can go at my own pace and do whatever I feel like doing within my ability to solo or duo/trio with some buddies. Plus it's my favorite job, kind of reminds me of pokemans. I've got WHM for LS activities, but I require at least a case of beer to play WHM. I wish there was a beer elemental line of magic spells.

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You are posting on a PC I imagine? How many people have xbox, play this game, and do not have a PC they can use a VOIP program with?

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Tablet. I've got a couple of options for voice chatting, but most of the voice chatting in my LS channel is carried out when our DDs are drunk and loud so it's mostly there for comedic purposes.

I will go ahead and say this, those of you gear snobs that play this game for 20 hours a day 7 days a week are gonna be real disappointed when the 70-80% of the population that is casuals on this game leave and then SE cancels it. Which is whats gonna happen if all the content requires Job A + Equipment B = Win. Abyssea brought people back to the game and this attitude of elitism is what is driving them away en mass. If you love this game as much as I do (Been playing 7 years) then stop being such jerks about it and understand content everyone can do leads to content everyone will want to do. Also I think the elitists need to be reminded again that keeping casuals playing keeps the lights on.

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Originally Posted by Razielrinz

*tears*

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Have you ever played this game?
For serious, have you?

Sure have played it. Been playing it fora long time. And I am one of many people who are getting fed up with this crap. Making any event single out jobs and restrict the rest is not good for business. I remember soloing Blm to 72 on Bst pets cause I could not get into any Aht Urgan parties cause they all did birds and birds reflected damage. Why should people be forced to play a certain job to do content they want to do to get w/e gear they want? What if I want to come on my Corsair? What if I want to come on my Blm? What if I hate Sch or Smn or the heavy DD that you require? Why should I have to play something I hate to get gear I want? It should be open for everyone to do without having to cheat or rely on Sch 2 hour and JA or Smn and their 2 hour JA. And content that makes it restrictive chases away people that are casual and reduces the number of people paying for the game. Oh and Plasticleg I like your quote, as it shows your ignorance to a very real problem. I, like many have lots of hours in this game and would like it to keep going and content like NNI is not helping it. That's my opinion. The only real solution is to reduce the overall difficulty (incoming hate I can feel it) and just say W/E to the 4 HDD and 2 Sch parties kicking it's teeth in like they do now anyway. This way everyone can do it (even pick up parties wooooooo) like they used to be able to in regular Nyzul Isle. So hate on me all you want but I love this game and do not want to see it go down the crapper cause of elitist attitudes leading the development team.

Honestly im sick of casuals since abyssea came out i still remember the average casual nobody who got a huge ego when abyssea first came out infact most of them were worse than these so called elitist snobs you are talking about, so why should i care if a casual player can or can't succeed at nyzul, I don't care and it's simply because you are terrible at the game and you casuals seem to think you have the right to have gear handed to you ever since abyssea came out, heres a hint nni wasn't designed so you would win on every run so man up and keep trying to do it and stop crying on here about it

Why do people keep bringing up limited job viability as an issue with Neo-Nyzul Isle?

Compared to Legion or any event where a !! over a monster's head is desired, Neo-Nyzul Isle is open to a huge number of arrangements of a huge number of jobs. Two spots are occupied by Scholars, but the other four are open to almost anything that hits things with things and benefits fully from Embrava.

The huge number of relatively weak enemies makes Neo-Nyzul Isle a walk through the park, naked in April on Free Hotdog Day, for one-handed melee compared to Legion.

Some jobs are definitely left out, but again, there are very few events in all of FFXI that lovingly accept all jobs. An event where a Blue Mage or a Thief can wail on stuff in the same party as a Dark Knight or a Warrior is a pretty open event.

Not to say that Neo-Nyzul Isle doesn't have issues, but it flummoxes me that stuff about jobs keeps coming up in the complaints.

It's a red herring for people who just want the event to be easier so they can beat it.

SE can't put out top tier events that you can literally take any 6 jobs to and win because then when you went with the ideal set up you would fly through it like a cruise missile through wet toilet paper. Imagine if you will, if NNI was set to a difficulty level that facilitated being cleared by a PLD WHM THF BRD RDM DNC party. Now imagine that same toned down NNI with a party of SCH SCH UKON RAG RYU RAG.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Why do people keep bringing up limited job viability as an issue with Neo-Nyzul Isle?

Compared to Legion or any event where a !! over a monster's head is desired, Neo-Nyzul Isle is open to a huge number of arrangements of a huge number of jobs. Two spots are occupied by Scholars, but the other four are open to almost anything that hits things with things and benefits fully from Embrava.

The huge number of relatively weak enemies makes Neo-Nyzul Isle a walk through the park, naked in April on Free Hotdog Day, for one-handed melee compared to Legion.

Some jobs are definitely left out, but again, there are very few events in all of FFXI that lovingly accept all jobs. An event where a Blue Mage or a Thief can wail on stuff in the same party as a Dark Knight or a Warrior is a pretty open event.

Not to say that Neo-Nyzul Isle doesn't have issues, but it flummoxes me that stuff about jobs keeps coming up in the complaints.

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The issue keeps coming up in complaints because LS leaders have it in their heads the only way to do the event is with heavy DD and 2x SCH. My LS leader told me to level SAM for NNI or I wasn't going with them, so I lol'd and still haven't finished soloing SAM to 99 yet or gearing it and I don't plan to. I find it rather boring.

In a game with 20 jobs the community is taking 4 jobs to nearly every event and destroying it. So 1/5th of the game's population is able to do these events, and anyone else who wants to do them has to either level SCH, or gear up SAM/WAR/DRK or gtfo. Call it a red herring all you want, it's still exclusionary content.

Maybe they should just buff the weak jobs so that they are strong enough for NNI instead?

But that would make sense.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Oh you. All of my jobs are displayed on the AH website if you really care to look at it and leave a snide comment. I play BST because of my odd work hours and time schedule, properly gearing a solid DD is a massive time investment and I just don't have enough hours in my day to work on it effectively.

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No, it is not. You can quickly gear a solid DD very well. I took a SAM friend to NNI for his first time last week. Had the TP bonus GK, AF3+2, or AH (miekera-oto etc) gear mostly. Did we win? Yup. Granted you just need a single friend or the ability to dual box a second account and just do it all yourself. Even with a work schedule there is no reason you can't camp the NMs for a Masamune/Almace/etc or solo dynamis for 8 months casually not going every night. If you just do not feel like it there are always magian weapons too for DRG DRK and SAM that are not hard. You have a LS, but perhaps you need a new one.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Plus it's my favorite job, kind of reminds me of pokemans.

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PUP is my first and favorite job and I know not to take it to Nyzul, but that is okay because I have other jobs I can go on. The secret being I have only leveled two new jobs on Spicy since abyssea came out, when was it? Two years ago? Sounds casual doesn't it? Shhh, don't let the secret out of the bag though. No one needs to know about some casuals not going with 'cookie cutters' easily doing this event. It might just shatter perceptions, but then again of course not because people just don't want an event they have to try more at. Should just dbox everyone the gear now so they can be happy.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Tablet. I've got a couple of options for voice chatting, but most of the voice chatting in my LS channel is carried out when our DDs are drunk and loud so it's mostly there for comedic purposes.

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So what was the point of talking about how SE should make a chat channel for PC and lolBox users?

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Originally Posted by Caketime

In a game with 20 jobs the community is taking 4 jobs to nearly every event and destroying it. So 1/5th of the game's population is able to do these events, and anyone else who wants to do them has to either level SCH, or gear up SAM/WAR/DRK or gtfo. Call it a red herring all you want, it's still exclusionary content.

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Hey, someone got specific with this cookie cutter nonsense. Let's tear this one down while swaying no one.
Wish it was someone besides Caketime, but I will take it.
Before I get started too tell your LS leader to not be so narrow minded and include at least BLU and DRG in those three jobs he demanded.

First off something needs to be understood. You can win without embrava. You can put in place of the SCHs a healer/buffer (RDM, WHM, SCH) and a Bard (lamp whore) and 4 DDs.

Is it optimal? No, but it can win. No matter how many combinations of jobs for an event there is always an optimal set up. No matter what event you are in there is an optimal set up. People need to stop confusing cookie cutters with optimal set up. If the someone wants an optimal set up for an event you can either go or take charge and go yourself to the event with the set up you want. No one forces you to do anything in this game.

Now, for first three DDs you can bring to nyzul you have DRK, WAR, SAM, BLU w/ requiscate, MNK, DRG.

For the fourth DD spot if you wanted to you could take these jobs: COR w/ last stand, DNC, emperian NIN, relic THF, k club RNG, relic BST, or even a relic WHM meleeing.

SO, that leaves out PUP (unless it has mythic), PLD, SMN, BLM. Those damn cookie cutters with their 16/17 out of 20 jobs able to come to an event.

However, yes, yes I know what you are saying. "Not everyone can get a k club or relic" while that is not technically true lets subtract those jobs.

So we have about 13 jobs that can go to nyzul out of 20. Such a cookie cutter event.

There are people who have very successful statics who have a THF come along. I personally will not even take THF to VW with me, but you get the point.

Overall, there are a lot of people who sell the gear to others and win with only five actively participating. To that extent any job in this game can go to Nyzul as their 6th.

This is not exclusionary content. This is content people want an optimal set up for even though they can actually win without it. If you have a problem with a group not wanting you then here is the shocker. You can make your own group. Who knew right?

First, to start off: I have 10/15 pieces of Nyzul gear. The group I went with primarily went with 2-3 blu, 2 sch, 1-2 drk. We actually had a very nice success rate (prior to switching out 2 members who either didn't bring meds as necessary, Dc'd during event, or slowed speed down of which were all 2hand DD with relics...go figure) prior to breaking up due to people not showing consistently and running into cheaters who compromised the rest of us. Basically got to the point most of us didn't trust anyone we didn't know personally since SE doesn't wear blinders and will indiscriminately ban not just guilty players but those associated within the same party/alliance. Do I care I'm not 15/15? No, cause I wouldn't use any of the pieces I didn't get and the set bonus doesn't make up for other gear slot choices in particular builds. Moving on....

Does the content need to be adjusted? This is up to some very particular insights on the event in general. The fact that it relies heavily on Embrava being on your DD's is the main nail in the coffin. The content on the other hand is not exceedingly difficult, but it does require that you are a decently-to-well geared player and a competent one as well.

Speaking from legitimate completion of the content it will require you use food, it will require you know how to effectively use gear, spells, ws, meds to your benefit, and it will require that you rely on a decent amount of luck (that you don't get too many kill all floors with HNM, or too many lamp order floors). That being said it is not the most "casual player" friendly since it does require that someone has mid-to-high range gear option available.

Making it a "speed run" type event does have its points and is somewhat enjoyable, but it would make more sense to give players the option to not require the speed run mechanics and instead lower the overall drop rate to compensate. By this I mean you still keep the current build of Neo-Nyzul as an option for certain players, but for those that are "casual" you give them the option to climb it like old nyzul. In this old-style Nyzul you remove the fl100 100% drop rate and possibly make the various KI drop rates less than 100% but greater than 60%. This would still give people who don't want to to speed runs, or can't seem to make the speed runs, work in their advantage without making it too easy to get the prize either.

These are just hypothetical drop rates on items/KI and would be open to further interpretation by Devs, but at least having the option for the casual end of the spectrum would up the overall popularity without compromising the distribution of the gear at the same time. It would just require that the devs put more effort into the content....which they should have done in the first place.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Why do people keep bringing up limited job viability as an issue with Neo-Nyzul Isle?

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Embrava and perfect defense have been the bane of the game since it was released, endgame content now systematically includes mobs that can kill you faster than AV could at 75, it's completely stupid. The reason SE is not going to ajust NI right now is because they cleverly analyzed the main complaints that people have towards the game in their census.

ADL/nyzul/voidwatch/legion = plenty of complaints that you can't kill stuff the normal way. All this comes from either temps or PD/embrava.

it results in job imbalance, systematical use of certain jobs (HELLO SMN and SCH in legion, ADL and nyzul, this leaves only 4 free spots and those have to be DDs)

The main root of the problem is perfect defense and embrava. Once fixed, if nyzul only had random luck factor it would not be as bad ; although they deserve a giant facepalm for not adressing the lamp order "bug" earlier.

With this into consideration, the ajustement I gave previously (F100= %drop rare, each boss drops 1 shard, 100 shard needed) will balance the event. Needless to say that with no embrava you are very unlikely to win even F80. Thus with the perspective of embrava nerf, making F20,40,60 important is going to be a necessity.

Also spicyryan is trying too hard to justify an event that was badly designed from start and everyone dislikes (see the census) and cannot be won legit without cheating somehow.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

People are still defending NNI? It's a horribly designed event and you all know it, lamp order floors and zerg tactics don't showcase your skill, it just showcases your willingness to jog on a hamster wheel for shinies.

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I was shocked reading the posts here till I saw this. Yay for someone that actually thinks.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

The reason it gets defended by a small portion of people is because theyve found it to be winnable, losing to random bad luck is something you have to overlook. Wanting SE to change the bad luck/obstacle element of NNI is about the same as asking for the gear to be handed to you a silver platter. I dont have an exceptionally high rate of victory on this content either and i have no sets of nyzul gear done yet. But the content is beatable. What gets me is why everytime i go to the portal, i see perle drgs and wars, with a whm, or ninjas, and they think they will win with such slow output. Then they wipe, lose, whatever comes about from it, then they come here and rage about how the content sucks and its too hard. Back before abyssea this game had setups and organization for content, its also a piece of content you cannot do everyday, so its not like lvling a job for it is so omg bad. Im glad the game is back to setups and organized job layouts for stuff like this. Running into every bit of content and zerging it with no effort is boring as hell. Say what you like, at the end of the day all the ranting in the world will change nothing.

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Like relics and 'endgame gear' now? What happened to the game anyway. Does not hurt to ask for a reasonable event.

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Originally Posted by saevel

The only places where you need high powered DD are Boss floors or floor 60+ leader / kill all floors. Those places then to have NMs with lots of HP that hit really hard.

We've won with various setups depending on who needed the gear that day.
Our super group / static that consistently won was
SCH
SCH
WAR (Rag)
WAR (Ukon)
THF (Mandau)
BLU (Almace, me)

Ride bergressor and eat meat while running around killing everything. We found a good BLU (read: not an abyssea / voidwatch proc onry BLU) to be invaluable. Requiscat and various damage types are helpful on floors with undead or flan NMs. That and BLU's can destroy EP~EM monsters while also being able to stun most NMs (not boss's though).

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hey guys lets call a causal event that requires people to have emp,mythic, relic weapons while demanding 2 schs have 500 enchanting magic..


riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhht

Can someone explain what Tanaka's RNG means?

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Originally Posted by Rambus

hey guys lets call a causal event that requires people to have emp,mythic, relic weapons while demanding 2 schs have 500 enchanting magic..


riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhht

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Casual events are [a], voidwatch, and neo-dyna.

But again, are you honestly looking for casual content in FFXI?

Honestly, what I wish they would do with NNI is make it more like old Nyzul. I want to be able to shout for a group and get a decent win rate, like old nyzul.

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Originally Posted by Plasticleg

Casual events are [a], voidwatch, and neo-dyna.

But again, are you honestly looking for casual content in FFXI?

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at 75 no, but then there was this huge demand for the game to be more causal friendly and abyssea did that.

Then they made relics causal but mythics hard, I am pretty sure that is the reverse what SE intended. Then we get 99 weapon requirements for emps... then um..

point is i would really like a dividing line what is suppose to be casual or not because how to get emps mythics and relics is mixed with what a causal can achieve in a reasonable amount of time while needing to be hard core for others. (relics 75-99 is easy, afterglow is obnoxious, mythics always been obnoxious, emps are pretty easy casual heavily plates and i thought those weapons was meant to be most causal to do, not relics. There is a lot of mixed messages, would like clearer boundaries instead of changing what is harder to do every 6 months. like 90 emp being ok to do but with the 95 cap it is suddenly hard.)

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Then they made relics causal but mythics hard, I am pretty sure that is the reverse what SE intended. Then we get 99 weapon requirements for emps... then um..

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What makes you think that mythics were ever intended to be casual? Especially at level 75? Assaults and Nyzul may be casual but Einherjar and Salvage were not, and the crazy amount of alex required (50k initially) does not scream casual content to me. In addition, the ToAU beastman kings were a lot more difficult back then between the adds and navigating to the NM's spawnpoint without losing people.

They said it, something about it was quest based version of relics.
30000/50000 is not quest based lol

Oh i would agree with that, I do not think the idea they had matched the outcome lol

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Originally Posted by Mefuki

Honestly, what I wish they would do with NNI is make it more like old Nyzul. I want to be able to shout for a group and get a decent win rate, like old nyzul.

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Shouting for groups for old Nyzul often proved disastrous and was never better than a static. The same is true for new Nyzul. You can easily get a decent win rate in new Nyzul.

Most of my climbs was shouts. I think my static broke because someone did not like the war using a riddle...

and was after the 2h buff where G-axe was standard, very dumb -.-

the reason i had problems making a pt is because people where 20,40,60,80,100 floor only

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Originally Posted by Rambus

the reason i had problems making a pt is because people where 20,40,60,80,100 floor only

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That's the funny thing. People keep asking for the old Nyzul back. The Nyzul that in the same time frame it took me to climb to 100 before even farming the lower floors for gear. I had already finished in the new Nyzul.

Does no one remember killing the floor 80 boss three times and nothing dropping at all? Does no one remember killing the floor 80 Boss three times to get the same piece again and nothing the third time?

In 30 minutes from day 1 you have walked away with 0-4 pieces. The new Nyzul doesn't require you to climb for two months then go back for months to slowly acquire all the gear in wins that are the exact same as a loss when either nothing drops or the drop is what almost everyone has.

The old Nyzul should be respected for the enjoyable progression it brought, but the new Nyzul should be seen as more rewarding and befitting the modern era of FFXI.

Even some of the floor 80 pieces are second best to the floor 100 pieces. The only reason a group can't win floor 80 is because the sad truth is they either need more practice or they just are not that good.

People expect to go from events where there is no contest (any 75 content, any abyssea content, most of VW, in fact 95% of the game) to an area of contest and expect the same results of the game rolling over and giving up. I would rather have an element of difficulty come from a RNG that I overcome almost every single group of runs than the old days. The days of real difficulty where people had to cheat to kill AV or spend 18 hours fighting PW. There is your real difficulty, and what did the players have to show for it besides a pointless carrot and stick struggle? Nothing.

Nyzul Isle Uncharted is fine as is. Go out and enjoy the victory of something that is not just practically handed to you for a change.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

That's the funny thing. People keep asking for the old Nyzul back. The Nyzul that in the same time frame it took me to climb to 100 before even farming the lower floors for gear. I had already finished in the new Nyzul.

Does no one remember killing the floor 80 boss three times and nothing dropping at all? Does no one remember killing the floor 80 Boss three times to get the same piece again and nothing the third time?

In 30 minutes from day 1 you have walked away with 0-4 pieces. The new Nyzul doesn't require you to climb for two months then go back for months to slowly acquire all the gear in wins that are the exact same as a loss when either nothing drops or the drop is what almost everyone has.

The old Nyzul should be respected for the enjoyable progression it brought, but the new Nyzul should be seen as more rewarding and befitting the modern era of FFXI.

Even some of the floor 80 pieces are second best to the floor 100 pieces. The only reason a group can't win floor 80 is because the sad truth is they either need more practice or they just are not that good.

People expect to go from events where there is no contest (any 75 content, any abyssea content, most of VW, in fact 95% of the game) to an area of contest and expect the same results of the game rolling over and giving up. I would rather have an element of difficulty come from a RNG that I overcome almost every single group of runs than the old days. The days of real difficulty where people had to cheat to kill AV or spend 18 hours fighting PW. There is your real difficulty, and what did the players have to show for it besides a pointless carrot and stick struggle? Nothing.

Nyzul Isle Uncharted is fine as is. Go out and enjoy the victory of something that is not just practically handed to you for a change.

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This.
In the game's lifespan where even the hardest VW mobs can be won in shout groups, I'm glad there's something that still requires a higher level of teamwork than simply proc'ing your job's abilities/spells in order to be successful.

Yes it's very job exclusive. And? So was original Nyzul. So was Salvage. You level one of the jobs that's useful for the event you want gear from, or you don't participate. And with how stupid easy it is to level nowadays with the only real time sink/effort coming from skill ups, there's no real excuse to not have some melee job at this point.

I wonder how many people who say this is fine or this is good cause its challenging are using 3rd party tools for the wins and just want to have "Exclusive Gear" to themselves. I see people running around my server with full sets and I just shake my head cause most of them are cheating. You know a event is too hard when the 15/15s are all most all cheaters.

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Originally Posted by detlef

What makes you think that mythics were ever intended to be casual?

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They said so. Sure, their actions didn't match their intentions, but it is what they told us.

They were meant to be casual, and instead have become the most impossible things to make.

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Originally Posted by Razielrinz

I wonder how many people who say this is fine or this is good cause its challenging are using 3rd party tools for the wins and just want to have "Exclusive Gear" to themselves. I see people running around my server with full sets and I just shake my head cause most of them are cheating. You know a event is too hard when the 15/15s are all most all cheaters.

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The old "most are all cheaters" routine egh?

About the only thing they can cheat on now is 'flee hacking' since order lamps are completely random since last update. Running around that fast is easier to catch as well. So the desperate people are more likely to get caught.

The Ukon WAR for our group was at a concert tonight so we had a stand in TP bonus magian katana SAM. Obviously brining our DD down a bit.
Both of our first two runs had order floors that took three guesses and the first had a kill all with WS restricted. We won the first run with 2 minutes left and the second run with over five minutes left. It was all done legitimately, and now I have 15/15 on my main and 15 pieces between the mules. 10/10 for Squishytaru (the popular 99MNK with no sub job) and 5/5 on my general purpose crafting mule for WHM, RDM, and SCH.
After going 30/15 legitimately I will say once again this event is not hard and does not need a change.

The third run we had a DRG stand in that no one wanted to come except one person who has been pushing for it because they feel they owe them a win. Not only were they slower than the SAM for the numerous all floors (gogo struggling to break 2k stardiver) we had time penalty gears get tripped. DRG killing a weapon instead of going to a lamp, etc. Not to mention the bullshit sleepga around the corner from a skeleton for a minute. We still got to 90 anyway despite all that and the low floor jumps at the end.

I don't know how many examples I really need to provide to show this is an easy event that gets offset by bad luck at times.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

The old "most are all cheaters" routine egh?

About the only thing they can cheat on now is 'flee hacking' since order lamps are completely random since last update.

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The fact that you are hiding the common cheating ways people are using tells enough why you are in a crusade to justify nyzul. You still know how many lamps there are and still see through walls which helps for 100% of floor types so yeah.

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Originally Posted by Razielrinz

I wonder how many people who say this is fine or this is good cause its challenging are using 3rd party tools for the wins and just want to have "Exclusive Gear" to themselves. I see people running around my server with full sets and I just shake my head cause most of them are cheating. You know a event is too hard when the 15/15s are all most all cheaters.

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Had the replacements of my group gone to the lengths the rest of us did to keep up our success rate I could have been 15/15 and we didn't cheat. The biggest things that worked against us was extremely large floors, multiple lamp order, poor jumps, or a combination of kill all+lamp order. We had roughly a 40% success rate at reaching floor 100 that dropped to a dismal 5% because of players who refused to get meds, follow direction, or just didn't have movement+ gear. This also happened when people refused to setup preferred list to include sprinters drink...or just didn't use it for some reason.

3 to 4 runs every 2-3 days with only 1-2 wins each time was our average turn around. There were times we got to floor 100 but couldn't kill before time expired. It doesn't take a cheater to only win, they just win easier than intended. It doesn't take a super elite player to win either, but you won't be winning it without average to above average gear and at least a lvl 85 emp weapon depending on job. I honestly don't think some jobs even need a relic or emp to beat this given how good merited WS are, but it certainly helps.

So if you are running around in less than average gear, or can't find a group of individuals that can follow directions, get meds, or use preferred items appropriately then yes...this event will not be easy or totally completable for you. You can however continue to do the event and set goals. Floor 60 and 80 drops the +2, +3, and piece of HQ KI which allows you to at least work on getting better gear as you work through the event. If all you are looking at is floor 100 completion and how "impossibly hard" it is then you missed the point of some of the changes SE has already made to the content.

Did I run around with some +3 items? Yes I did. I used these until I got the HQ items through the chance we actually made it all the way to floor 100, but the rate at which I got KI/+3 was low because we set the goal for floor 100 each run. This means we rarely saw floor boss on 20/40/60/80, but it still happened. If a group purposely sets a goal to hit these floors they still get better than average gear choices (at 80) and a chance to eventually get a HQ item. This is the part that has been set to players that aren't yet situated gear or else wise to reach 100 thus giving them a chance to get there, but at a slower rate.

Suggestion I made in a prior post wouldn't be any faster than this type of progression since the drop rates would be lowered exponentially to compensate for how much easier it would be to reach floor 100 via old nyzul way. You need to look at how adjustments would work in comparison to the gear reward before you automaticaly expect an adjustment. I know that if I ever did want to return to doing nyzul I would need either a semi-competent group with decent gear or a well geared group that is effecient to once again get floor 100 wins, but they would also have to understand that the win rate is rather low when done legitimately. One bad floor can cause the entire run to be lost in the long run, bad jump rates too. That is just how the event is set up, but at least getting to floor 100 is possible and getting at least 1 item 100% at your choice is nice. Some runs we managed to get 2 drops plus the KI giving some of us 2 items for 1 run.

My suggestion to you, before you say only cheaters can complete this, is to at least build a group for it first. The sch requirement is sadly just that...a requirement. They don't need to have 500 enhancing, but it certainly helps as does having +2 emp hands (this more so than 500 enhancing actually). If they can get more enhancing than base that would be ideal, but 500 is not a requirement it is just a bonus. Depending on what sort of DD you can compile and how well you know these people to follow directions, be willing to spend gil on meds, and agree on preferred items setup will be a vast majority of your success rate. I would then do full tags worth of 100 goal set runs just to see what your average attained floor is based on floor jumps. If you at least get 60, but your jump rates are poor (2~4 floors per jump) then you can easily hit floor 80 and possibly get 100 on occasion. If your jump rates are good and still 60 then you might want to see where your problem issues are, discuss it, and then try again to see if you can correct it before setting a goal.

Like I said, the success rate of my group was dictated by this and this above all else. When we ran into members who didn't give it their all and wasted time it created problems and also lowered overall moral (since 3 of the members were actually capped on gear but stuck around to help the rest). Why don't you try doing that first before you see someone with the gear and automatically assume cheater.

You would be credible if you didn't emphasize on gear quality (empy 85+ guys) and not cheating. It's obvious to anyone that has done nyzul that luck factor is 100% of the event. Killall are among the faster floors obviously and time waster are all kind of lamps and bad floor jump# luck.

Incorrect, I stated that based on job emp of 85+ goes a long way. I did not state that gear had to be exceptional, but it couldn't be bad or poor either. And I actually emphasized on the fact of team work and overall utility of meds, spells, preferred items over gear. Gear is only a part of the equation. Do try to understand where I emphasize more over the lesser areas.

I also didn't state that luck had nothing to do with it, hence why I stated our success rate was under 50%, because there were runs where we did get bad luck with jumps, multiple order lamps, or multiple kill all floors. Just so you know, at floors 60+ you will run into HNM in kill all floors such as Hydra, Khimera, behemoth, or fafnir which do take longer than running into normal mobs and trashing them. Thus Kill all floors can be slower than any other floor you'll run into.

Kill all are still a a time waste over Kill spec, Kill fam, or code lamp. Even kill leader is faster than a kill all making the two most time consuming floors a kill all and lamp order floor. The secondary time waster comes from the fact that people are unwilling to use meds, use preferred items when needed, or do not follow directions (namely have one person dictate lamp order so time isn't wasted on two or more calling out orders). The least of these comes down to what you say I emphasized on since it is just a portion of the equation and through effort and time they can upgrade their gear choices (of which is true in any event regardless of how you look at it since more often than not that is the sole purpose of the event, to get better gear).

To further elaborate:
People don't do VW for no reason, they do it for drops which are for gear or items to upgrade certain gear (emp weapons).
People don't do Abyssea NM for no reason, they do them for KI or to upgrade to better gear/weapons, or as a form of income.
People don't do Dynamis for no reason, they do it for gear/weapon upgrades, to make relics, or as a form of income.
People didn't do Sky for no reason, they did it for gear or income.
People didn't do Kings for no reason, they did it for gear or income.
Salvage wasn't done for no reason, it was done for gear or income.

This is the only part of gear emphasizes I made, not that you had to be exceptionally well geared. You could be averagely geared, be competent enough to use different WS sets and tp sets as needed, and still go far in this event so long as team work and effort to use other viable enhancers takes place. That is a given for any event that has ever come into FFXI.

I'm starting to get the idea that some of you are more agitated that you can't do this with a mule or something and still get the gear rather than the actual difficulty. It isn't that hard of content, but it isn't something you're going to get into a pickup group and hope to succeed in with a high success rate either. In the 10 years the game has been around mentality for events has always had to change....this is no different.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

The fact that you are hiding the common cheating ways people are using tells enough why you are in a crusade to justify nyzul. You still know how many lamps there are and still see through walls which helps for 100% of floor types so yeah.

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I am not hiding anything. -_-

I was putting out there that probably the most beneficial and common way of cheating was fixed by SE. The last big thing left is people who flee around the zone. Knowing how many lamps there are on the floor wouldn't change anything. People have to fan out and find them. I know the people I am running with (besides the DRK being on xbox) do not see how many lamps there are. As for the walls it is not game breaking either.

Looking through walls and knowing there is more than one lamp (no one uses their radar anymore..?) must be it! That must be how he generally has such an easy time in Nyzul!

McHammer - Too Legit to Quit.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Looking through walls and knowing there is more than one lamp (no one uses their radar anymore..?) must be it! That must be how he generally has such an easy time in Nyzul!

McHammer - Too Legit to Quit.

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Yeah ok Mr noone, since when can you see lamps on radar when they are further than casting range ? Me think you are mixing somoething with something-radar (common cheat). Try harder ? If you pop on a floor and see a "number 1" lamp there is a chance it's a code floor but if you see "lamp4" you know you'all have at least 4 lamps to seek. Simarly seeing through walls allows you to go quickly to them. Stop acting like you don't do all this lol. I'd say 99% of the player do it.

Name changing and seing through walls still cuts lamps floors, and all type of enemy floors by 2.

Thats the insulting thing about you, no matter what someone says you refuse to believe them because they disagree with what you believe. I cant say hes cheating or not, but either way without knowing, you cant really accuse em of it.

I don't insult anyone, I'm saying claiming that the radar allows you to see lamps is an obviously skewed argument ; the same guy he trying his best on every forum to justify nyzul, even claiming a 50% winrate post VU on some forums.

I'm just saying the way you put it seems insulting, it seems as if you jump to conclusions and think all others much cheat because they make progress in this event, even if you cant. I don't know if you have done this, if you care, or what is said on other forums. I was simply telling you how it sounded from where I'm sitting & how it seemed. In either case if he cheats then oh well, I really couldn't care less at this point simply because this game is disappointing me alot lately, and if they cheat then so be it, they get a reward they don't deserve and likely don't know how to use. This isn't aimed at him either though, its simply how I feel about anyone who cheats for this gear.