Macro/Books/Pages.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

You really need to get over yourself.

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In what way do you mean... do I intimidate you?

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Windower is a reality. It exists because the playerbase got fed up with SE's nonsense and found a solution to the problem rather than endlessly petitioning a brick wall.

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So you're fine with using "Windower" to fix this problem because Square Enix chooses not to address it?

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Originally Posted by Krashport

In what way do you mean... do I intimidate you?

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http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1492qxvl91qbpsgg.png

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Originally Posted by Krashport

So you're fine with using "Windower" to fix this problem because Square Enix chooses not to address it?

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Yes. Windower is a superior fix to whatever SE could come up with. That's the unfortunate reality of our situation. You can either accept that, or wail about it to no effect.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Zumi, How would you feel if Square Enix lowered the number of Books to (10) and pages to Macro's within said Book to (5) getting the consoles more RAM to add new lines if in fact it is a RAM issue?

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...ookspart01.jpg

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PS2 is so ancient the way it works is it only holds 1 set of ctrl and alt macros in the ram at once. If you switch to another line of macros, like go from 1-2 there is a noticeable pause and it loads the macro data into the ram from the hard drive. You can see the orange hd light lite up when you switch between rows and the game stutter a little bit.

So reducing the number of books would do nothing.

Now SE could do this on PC and 360 if they wanted if they change their policies about the whole deal.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

On the contrary, I just repeated to you what you said to me, to point out to you how you were the one acting childish this time. I know very well when I'm being childish and immature and I have no problems at all to admit to it, but this wasn't one of those times. This was you being childish and me calling you out on it. You asked me why I'm in here, which is a pointless question because this is an official forum where every currently paying customer may express their opinion, so I directed the same question back at you.

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V

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I said plenty of intelligent things about it supporting this very cause in other threads.Repeating myself in here would do no good to anyone. You're just taking it personally that I told you that there's been threads about this very issue before, which you shouldn't have, because it wasn't.

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If you don't want to repeat yourself and obvious you said it yourself and still repeating yourself, See bold. having nothing to add besides what you have said in other threads, Which in fact you are repeating yourself. that is the question that I have asked you.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Bolded your error in judgment, which is exactly what I was talking about. "You shouldn't need anymore" is just you imposing your ideas and your style of playing on others. You're not in any position to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't need. Just earlier Thanotos told you that gear swapping is wrong and shouldn't be a part of the game, which you immediately dismissed. It's the same thing. You're not comfortable with his judgment of what you should be allowed to do. Yet you feel you can judge others on the same matter?

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Originally Posted by Thanotos

I just want to say that swapping gear in itself during combat is a retarded concept, and I would be happy to see it removed period. Being able to use and benefit from every piece of armor in the game equipable by my class, in a span of seconds while engaged to an enemy is just ridiculous.

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^

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Seeing that swapping gear, gear in general is a big part of Final Fantasy XI. Why do you feel it's ridiculous and it should be stopped?

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Gotta get your facts straight... It's call asking a question.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I wouldn't, and I never said it was for me. Very few of my macros even exceed one line, so I don't care at all about how many in particular it is. All I'm saying is that 12 is a completely arbitrary number to other people. You picked it because it would fit your playstyle and now you seem hell bent on it being "just right", and keep listing weird and incomplete examples that I can't even make much sense of, although I admit it may be the alcohol, so I'll review it in the morning. It still doesn't change the fact that there's certain actions for which I want to change 15 pieces of gear, which is not possible with your suggested "solution".

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Bold: Everyone posts a bit with themselves in mind, but knowing it's on the forums other people opinions will come to surface.

Bold:You really have a habit speaking for others, But I know you're really speaking for yourself and using the words people, us, everyone, players as a handicap.

Bold:Wrong I picked it because it will convert Macro set 2-A into macro set 1-A giving more space to the macro bar and not having 2 or more Macro sets for a gear swap.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Nope, again not. That was a perfectly valid argument, and I have to admit I feel a little disheartened that you ignored it based on your perception of my attitude, which wouldn't, in any way, invalidate the argument itself, even if that perception was accurate. I've been feeling especially chipper today and I was never in the mood to behave immaturely at all. I'm simply telling you what your argument sounds like to other people. It sounds like you picked a number that just suits you, and you defending it and telling others that they change too much gear or shouldn't need anymore just makes you sound arrogant and fascist, placing your own opinion over other peoples'. Because in the end, that's all it is, your opinion. And while you're entitled to it just like everyone else, it doesn't make it special, right or even appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

12 simply doesn't feel logical to me. The 6 we have now are arbitrary. 12 is 2x arbitrary, picked by you because that's what you deemed necessary for efficient gearswapping. However, that's only the case for you and how you play. Others have their macros laid out differently and wanna swap more gear. Some wanna combine macros into one, with a wait command. There's plenty of reasons why 12 would be bad as well. It would only suck half as much as 6, but it would still suck.

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This is what you're calling a valid argument, everyone knows that all members playing the game plays it differently. so you're pointing out the obvious. But it's called "Gear swap" Sword,Shield,Bow,Ammo are considered weapons. but yeah I can see and understand how one can look at weapons being gear... and wanting to swap them out.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Now, I've explained to you why just 12 slots are unreasonable, and the only counter-argument you had was "you shouldn't need anymore", which is as wrong as needing anything in a game can be, as Thanotos' pointed out with his opinion that you shouldn't need any gear swaps at all. So your only counter-argument was your opinion of other peoples' playstyle.

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Bold: You did? you just said awhile back in your post you only just use one macro line and seeing we have 6 atm how would 12 effect you? "Remember this is just a question"
Bold:Show me where I did this, I know that I asked Thanotos a question, which they never answered... :(

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Originally Posted by Arcon

You, however, never explained to me why 32 slots would be unreasonable. Your bolded reply seems to indicate that you're quite shocked at that suggestion, because you seem to have read into it that that I actually wanna change 32 pieces of gear with one press of a button or something, which isn't the case. But even if it was, why is that bad? Would it hurt you if I had 32 macro lines? Or even if you had it? Why is it excessive? Of course we're still under the assumption that PS2 memory isn't a limitation for this, because otherwise all our arguments would be pointless, but if we disregard that restriction, why is it excessive? Do you know how little memory storing every single macro takes? Around 140 KB to have one entire macro book loaded. That's less than 0.05% of my FFXI's average memory consumption (running on a PC). So from a technical standpoint it's obviously not excessive. From a gameplay standpoint? You can't change more than 16 pieces at a time anyway, and if you wanted to, for whatever reason, why shouldn't you be able to do so?

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Bold:I personally would like to see this happen see figs.

Macro having 6 Lines:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n.../Macrofix2.jpg

Macro having 12 Lines:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n.../Macrofix3.jpg

Bold:If you can come up with a need to have so many lines within a macro for said use. I might understand your question Edit: 20~30+.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Gotta get you're facts straight... It's call asking a question.

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I guess I was too subtle last time.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-i...lling/your.png

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Monitoring the forums, spell checking threads or just the OP, cause you feel the need to find a word to point out is pathetic. you gotta get out more. Edit yeah.. I corrected myself. :p

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You know what's sad?
Your inability to deal with the reality of a given situation.

You know what's even more depressing?
Your butchering of the written word. You're shaming grade school children everywhere.

Also: RL card, classy.

Also also: You only fixed the one error I specifically highlighted. You have learned nothing apparently.

I've been sitting here for ten minutes trying to come up with an appropriate response, but nothing I can come up with is going to be of any worth. At this point you are simply determined to refuse to learn anything from this exchange.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

What I understand from Hiromichi_Tanaka post that they added more space to the Macro title where one can input more characters same with the lines, I didn't get they could not add anymore lines to a macro, I'm not saying that's what you read, but I can see people getting confused after all the main reason to this thread as well of all those other threads out there is to wonder why we could not have more lines within a macro and there is pretty much no facts or much facts that can be fond.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...Bookspart2.jpg

But yeah I do agree there is a issue in coding though in some way. seeing there is a Max of 368 characters 8 in the Macro title and 60 in 6 lines, that being said what if lowering the number to 30 in 12 lines question is could that solve this issue or maybe Square Enix just doesn't want this headache.

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I don't know just how to explain it in a way you can understand it, but you can't just truncate the fields and then magically create more fields. It doesn't necessarily work that way. This is not a PC environment that is desinged with that flexibility in mind. It is a very restricted 32 MB memory space, that has not had any changes from Sony in ages.

In this particular instance, they likely could not display beyond the 8 characters on the name of the macro because those "objects" were defined a limit at the system level on how long they can be ages ago. To make them longer may require a deep retooling of the interface that simply may not a viable investment of resources for a game of this age. These fields are likely streamed as a fixed length field. If you put 1 character or 8 in there, it is probably still parsed in the format of an 8 character field. If the field were to overflow when parsed, it could get truncated to 8 characters when it is sent to the screen. By doing this, the same resources are used to display them whether it originated as 4 bytes, or 10...8 are read and sent to the screen each time. Simply going back and changing the length of the field we are allowed to put in there does not alter the resources reserved for displaying that item. A similar thing likely goes for each line in the macro. Probably a fixed length they are prepared to parse from each line, or it may be done as a single stream of text that is parsed out as a fixed-length per line, or some EOL character we don't see ourselve....who knows. That object is likely managed the same way whether it has all lines full or not. I doubt they recompile our macros every time we edit them--they are probably saved in a uniform format, so the system has a certain space and format reserved for that object so that it knows how to process them every time they are called and streamed. Think of the Windows Registry--how many values are saved as 0x00000001 to simply represent the state of on/off, True/False?

Adding additional objects in this already overtaxed memory space of the PS2 can involve a much deeper problem that can go all the way back to bootstrapping that has to be adddressed and balanced. To register placeholders to represent more lines, they need empty slots available for declaring those fields. If there are no slots available--than something has to be removed to make room. Which begs the question, what do you remove so you can inject more code?

This is something that is specific to the PS2 structure that SE is intent on using as the foundation for the core features of the interface. It's structures are more or less replicated to the other platforms, even though those platforms are technically capable of much more. The core design is sort of recycled and modded to run on these other systems. So long as SE is determined to keep all platforms in synch like this, if it is not worth investing in making the necessary changes for the PS2 console to support the changes then it likely won't be done.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

If you don't want to repeat yourself and obvious you said it yourself and still repeating yourself, See bold. having nothing to add besides what you have said in other threads, Which in fact you are repeating yourself. that is the question that I have asked you.

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I wasn't repeating myself at all, I was repeating what you said. And the question was still pointless, which is why I didn't answer it then, but I did answer it in my previous post, so you should be happy now.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Seeing that swapping gear, gear in general is a big part of Final Fantasy XI. Why do you feel it's ridiculous and it should be stopped?

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Gotta get your facts straight... It's call asking a question.

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You are extremely selective when you're reading. Apparently you skipped over the first part, the part where you told him that gear swapping is a "big part of FFXI", which is again your opinion and not at all a question. It is also precisely what his problem is, so you just took the fact that he's dissatisfied with (gear swaps) and evaluated it according to your opinion. That is very far from a question. Just because you turned it back to him and asked his opinion again it doesn't change the fact that you assumed something completely contrary to his judgment and posed it as a fact, when it really isn't.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Bold: Everyone posts a bit with themselves in mind, but knowing it's on the forums other people opinions will come to surface.

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I don't get what you mean by that. Of course what I said is my opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm not using more than two macro lines at most, so this wouldn't very much affect me. I just want SE to make a better game, because it deserves to be better.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Bold:You really have a habit speaking for others, But I know you're really speaking for yourself and using the words people, us, everyone, players as a handicap.

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I am speaking for the people in this thread who disagreed with your judgment, and if you think there is no one, then why do you think there's 6 pages of everyone arguing against you? I never claimed to speak for everyone. I also never claimed that you're alone in your opinion. I'm just telling you there's another. If no one agreed with me they wouldn't have liked my posts. So yes, I am, as a matter of fact, representing more opinions than just my own. I'm not saying it to make myself sound superior, because, again, these are opinions. All of it. All of what you said and all of what I said. We can define who's reasonable or not, but we can't define who's right, because there is no right. But I not alone in thinking that 12 lines are not enough (apparently).

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Bold:Wrong I picked it because it will convert my Macro set 2-A into macro set 1-A giving me more space to the macro bar and not having 2 or more Macro sets for a gear swap.

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Added the bolded words, to make you understand my point. It would work for you, not for everyone. Hence, you picked it based on your playstyle, which is exactly what I said.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

This is what you're calling a valid argument, everyone knows that all members playing the game plays it differently. so you're pointing out the obvious. But it's called "Gear swap" Sword,Shield,Bow,Ammo are considered weapons. but yeah I can see and understand how one can look at weapons being gear... and wanting to swap them out.

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So you're arguing syntax now? Why is gear swap okay, but weapon swap isn't? And yes, weapons are, as a matter of fact, gear (and no, a shield is not considered a weapon, even though you can hit people in the face with it).

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Bold: You did? you just said awhile back in your post you only just use one macro line and seeing we have 6 atm how would 12 effect you? "Remember this is just a question"

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Just because it doesn't affect me personally, it doesn't mean it can't be unreasonable. I don't steal apples, that doesn't mean I think shooting every apple thief is reasonable just because it doesn't affect me. I gave you one very valid reason for why it's unreasonable, one you're still yet to refute: it doesn't work for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Bold:Show me where I did this, I know that I asked Thanotos a question, which they never answered... :(

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I drew Thanotos' post as a parallel to show you how other people disagree with your judgment in the exact same way that you're disagreeing with mine. He thinks gear changing is unreasonable, you think changing more than 12 pieces is unreasonable. The latter part of that sentence was not directed at your response to him.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Bold:I personally would like to see this happen see figs.

Macro having 6 Lines:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n.../Macrofix2.jpg

Macro having 12 Lines:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n.../Macrofix3.jpg

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And that still doesn't at all say why 32 slots are unreasaonable. I know what you want, you said it in your first post. But that doesn't help everyone. Other people would still be stuck on the same problem you're having now afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Bold:If you can come up with a need to have so many lines within a macro for said use. I might understand your question Edit: 20~30+.

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Again, completely ignoring the question. I ask you, why is 32 lines bad? What speaks against it? I explicitely stated that I have no use for it and that I don't know what people can use it for. That's not the point. The point is, why not?

Here's a fictional scenario:
- Change 15 pieces of gear
- Cast a spell
- Change 15 pieces back

Happy? Now tell me why I shouldn't be able to do that if I wanted to.

I think it's about time that a moderator closed this thread.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

I think it's about time that a moderator closed this thread.

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Not before they respond to my idea, it's the only good one in here anyway. ^^

so just because im on pc my point was irrelevant? been on pc for a year now and was only recently that i transitioned away from that style of macroing, if your looking for longer macros that will get the job done.

it still wont solve the problem of the more intuitive gear control that other programs will give you but with using my example you can rapidly tap the same macro combo 3x in a row in less then .5 seconds swap out 15 pieces of gear, which in most cases you're only going to want to swap 12 if not less.

I had been working with an idea that I never quite finished, but that might be worth mentioning in this thread.

If you would be able to "lock" your items before you left your mog house, you would recieve a bonus. It could be "Haste+20%", "Magic attack+ 20%", "Double attack+20%" etc. This would stop the need of swapping gear constantly and and free up macro space.

This suggestion probably should have gone in the "Gameplay-thread", but it seemed fitting to put it here ^_-

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Originally Posted by Kaych

I had been working with an idea that I never quite finished, but that might be worth mentioning in this thread.

If you would be able to "lock" your items before you left your mog house, you would recieve a bonus. It could be "Haste+20%", "Magic attack+ 20%", "Double attack+20%" etc. This would stop the need of swapping gear constantly and and free up macro space.

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It really and truly would not.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I wasn't repeating myself at all, I was repeating what you said. And the question was still pointless, which is why I didn't answer it then, but I did answer it in my previous post, so you should be happy now.

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Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Arcon

You are extremely selective when you're reading. Apparently you skipped over the first part, the part where you told him that gear swapping is a "big part of FFXI", which is again your opinion and not at all a question. It is also precisely what his problem is, so you just took the fact that he's dissatisfied with (gear swaps) and evaluated it according to your opinion. That is very far from a question. Just because you turned it back to him and asked his opinion again it doesn't change the fact that you assumed something completely contrary to his judgment and posed it as a fact, When it really isn't.

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Your whole argument from the start is about "same thread" and "your opinion". Sounds to me you're against people voicing their opinion, and mad at the reps cause all that your enlighten on those threads You've posted in, really didn't get any feed back as to much facts and picking that this thread is the same and similar to others, sure I agree it's kinda the same trust me if a rep want to delete more this or anything they will in their own time. You know how many threads are the same and similar in ways.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I am speaking for the people in this thread who disagreed with your judgment, and if you think there is no one, then why do you think there's 6 pages of everyone arguing against you? I never claimed to speak for everyone. I also never claimed that you're alone in your opinion. I'm just telling you there's another. If no one agreed with me they wouldn't have liked my posts. So yes, I am, as a matter of fact, representing more opinions than just my own. I'm not saying it to make myself sound superior, because, again, these are opinions. All of it. All of what you said and all of what I said. We can define who's reasonable or not, but we can't define who's right, because there is no right. But I not alone in thinking that 12 lines are not enough (apparently).

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There isn't 6 pages arguing against me, it's just you, your OCD and your opinion that has been stepping out of topic since you started posting in this thread, are you mad? As you can see most posters are suggesting to use windower. Which I disagree because we all know the reasons why. I am sure there are others within their own opinions that would like the Macro system adjusted. Mostly many in this thread agrees with me, That having (6) lines sucks cause having 2 macro sets or more for a gear swap and we would like it changed. It's seems you're shy voicing your own opinion and worrying about others, you should have just said from the start that you would rather have 32 lines. You're judging the whole side of a argument on the like Score!!.:D

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Added the bolded words, to make you understand my point. It would work for you, not for everyone. Hence, you picked it based on your playstyle, which is exactly what I said.

So you're arguing syntax now? Why is gear swap okay, but weapon swap isn't? And yes, weapons are, as a matter of fact, gear (and no, a shield is not considered a weapon, even though you can hit people in the face with it).

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That's a very interesting thought you have there. The main, sub, ammo you can do an action with and main, sub, ranged you'll reset TP, although head, body, hands, legs, feet, back, etc will not. Is one of the reasons I feel you shouldn't be able to. Hmm thinking about 32 lines, only would need 1 macro to do said action/gear swap/weapon skill/nuke etc, the mentality you have on this subject kinda gives me the impression "Go big or go home?" I do find both ways helping though.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I drew Thanotos' post as a parallel to show you how other people disagree with your judgment in the exact same way that you're disagreeing with mine. He thinks gear changing is unreasonable, you think changing more than 12 pieces is unreasonable. The latter part of that sentence was not directed at your response to him.

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Ask yourself can we gear swap now within FFXI, have we always been able to gear swap from release. How does it effect someone that does not gear swap. We will never know the answer to said question cause that falls into personal preference. The only thing we could do is assume. But asking questions and having your own opinions when others are involved using their opinions isn't wrong. Things that should matter is having an open mind. Also I'll let you in on something not everyone uses a keyboard nor only uses a controller to play FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

And that still doesn't at all say why 32 slots are unreasaonable. I know what you want, you said it in your first post. But that doesn't help everyone. Other people would still be stuck on the same problem you're having now afterwards.



Again, completely ignoring the question. I ask you, why is 32 lines bad? What speaks against it? I explicitely stated that I have no use for it and that I don't know what people can use it for. That's not the point. The point is, why not?

Here's a fictional scenario:
- Change 15 pieces of gear
- Cast a spell
- Change 15 pieces back

Happy? Now tell me why I shouldn't be able to do that if I wanted to.

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I never said 32 slots "lines" are unreasonable, Yeah my main OP is for 12 Macro lines and you feel the need to have 32 Macro lines that's fine. Seeing that there is 20 macros within one book and 10 pages I feel 32 lines for each Macro is a bit much. One macro page would be 640 lines, Books 6400 lines, all Books 1,128,000 lines. no matter what Square Enix do if they do anything to the Macro system hopefully it's a blessing. The main reason why I chose 12 lines, I found it to be more reasonable. At the end of the day we will have our 6 lines and you'll have your;

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I wouldn't, and I never said it was for me. Very few of my macros even exceed one line, so I don't care at all about how many in particular it is. All I'm saying is that 12 is a completely arbitrary number to other people.

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That's the problem with all your posts, "You don't care" all you're looking for is an argument.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

There isn't 6 pages arguing against me, it's just you, your OCD and your opinion that has been stepping out of topic since you started posting in this thread, are you mad? As you can see most posters are suggesting to use windower. Which I disagree because we all know the reasons why.

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Bolded the contradicting statements.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

I am sure there are others within their own opinions that would like the Macro system adjusted. Mostly many in this thread agrees with me, That having (6) lines sucks cause having 2 macro sets or more for a gear swap and we would like it changed. It's seems you're shy voicing your own opinion and worrying about others, you should have just said from the start that you would rather have 32 lines. You're judging the whole side of a argument on the like Score!!.:D

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No, I agree with you too. I agree that 12 is better than 6. I already told you that I liked your suggestion because of that. Why do you think I'm arguing against increasing the lines? I have no issues with your suggestion, I only have an issue with your insistance on being "just right" with 12 slots and everything more is stuff that we "don't need", because you're not in any position to decide that. If they went with this suggestion and increased it to 12 I'd be sincerely happy for the people who get more use out of it.

And I don't care for the like score at all (aside from hoping that the reps will pick up on it and promote those threads more enthusiastically to the devs if they get a higher score), I just used it to point out to you that I'm not just having the voices in my head who support me, but actual human beings who agree with some of my opinions (since you said that I don't and that I'm only talking for myself).

And again, I don't want 32 lines, I'm just not afraid to admit that I'd be happy about it. If they added it, it would certainly be a welcome change from my part. That doesn't mean I'll post a suggestion for it or that I pray for it every night. It would be of no use to me, but maybe it would to some people.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

That's the problem with all your posts, "You don't care" all you're looking for is an argument.

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Again with your selective reading. I do care, about many things. I care very deeply about starving children, homeless dogs, censorship politics, what dip to use for chicken nuggets and most of all about the difference between "affect" and "effect". I also care about improving FFXI, and this would be a step towards that. If you read again, you'll see I said "I don't care about how many [lines] in particular it is", which is very different from saying that I don't care. I'm not arguing with you over the number of lines, at first I argued with you because you felt offended that I called this thread a reposted idea (which you shouldn't have been, as that was simply a factual statement), right now I'm arguing with you because you're stubborn and you don't wanna bulge, you don't wanna admit that maybe your solution is not perfect. You kept bringing excuses and justifications for why 12 would work for you, which no one ever doubted in the first place, because if it wouldn't work for you, you wouldn't have suggested it.

Lastly, I'm never looking for an argument. As in, ever. I don't feel like arguing with you either, for that matter, but as I said before, I can't let your groundless accusations and misinterpretations stand without commenting, especially on a matter which I care about.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I am speaking for the people in this thread who disagreed with your judgment, and if you think there is no one, then why do you think there's 6 pages of everyone arguing against you?

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^

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Originally Posted by Krashport

There isn't 6 pages arguing against me, it's just you, your OCD and your opinion that has been stepping out of topic since you started posting in this thread, are you mad? As you can see most posters are suggesting to use windower. Which I disagree because we all know the reasons why.

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Bolded the contradicting statements.

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People suggesting a 3rd party tool, and I chose not to use it, as others do. How is this arguing against me?, I have been talking about the official macro system, PS2>PC not 3rd party tools [6] lines this whole time. any number to the official system would help out. Yes and you agreed.

So no one is arguing against my OP, But arguing against I am not using "Windower" you're implying.

I'm going to take this moment and ask could a rep come in this thread please and tell us is "Windower", a 3rd party tool official or not. Can we use it cause there is a lot of members in this thread suggesting it to other members and openly using it.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Just asked, actually. To my knowledge it hasn't been officially answered yet.

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it was answerred, one of the 1st we got actually. It was no. Something about client limitations on the max lines that could be produced. IIRC it was what launched the 300+ "stop supporting the PS2" threads--also answerred, as "no". I'd give you the link, but I'll be damned if I put myself through rereading all that drivel just to find it. Seem to recall it was a Dev post though, not Camate or Bayhonne.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krashport

I'm going to take this moment and ask could a rep come in this thread please and tell us is "Windower", a 3rd party tool official or not. Can we use it cause there is a lot of members in this thread suggesting it to other members and openly using it.

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someone theorized that the reps were not responding to this question-which you're not the 1st to ask-because it's a "see no evil" attitude by SE. The theory was "yes, it IS a 3rd party tool and a technical violation of the ToS". Considering the prevalence of Windower users however they don't want to take "official" notice of it, because the resulting bans would kill too much of their revenue stream. As long as you don't blatantly discuss it in game, or use the tools in such a way that you are obviously playing with an unfair advantage they kind of let it slide.

Not to mention enforcement of it would be a bitch...

Since when does SE care about getting less money? The salvage bans proved that they're willing to take a hit already. SE simply doesnt care about windower unless it starts auto fleehacking.

And to the people nagging about macros; Use your /macro commands and stop sucking already. I easily had my macro swaps done for all slots after SE release those commands on my ps2.

SE said you weren't intended to use large macros...

SE absolutely cares about the bottom line, and yes, I do remember the salvage bans. The difference is that they had a TON more subscribers than they have today. They even had that giant pool of RMT accounts to fall back on, these days they are barely functional by comparrison. 14 was a flop, 11 is dated and WoW is beating them both, despite being rather dated itself.

The other big difference is that salvage banned characters tried to get back in because the playstyle itself wasn't affected. Take away windower and I doubt more than maybe 5% would bother even trying to come back, because it's integral to their style as players. Optomistic view no, but realistic I think so...