Nyzul Isle Uncharted information and feedback

I think three biggest problems with neo-nyzule are that they:
1) Removed the one truly static, saving grace of nyzul that allowed for the randomness to at least be fun (recording progression)
2) Took an event already based around randomness and added another element of randomness to the mix (Floor ???)
and 3) Left the original 30 minute time limit.

The combination of those three factors is what creates, in my eyes, the biggest issue. An idea I had after reading someone else mention that it would be a lot better if it were even just 45 minutes instead of 30, was this: +5 minute time extensions for each boss floor cleared.

My reasoning is this:
- It keeps the random element of luck that SE wants for this event, if you overshoot a boss floor, you can't backtrack to get the time, so you can still get unlucky, and to get every time extension would require a good deal of luck.
- it makes reaching the top floor bosses at 80/100 a lot more feasible, since you can theoretically get a bonus 15 minutes by floor 60, and 20 by 80.
- It also negates the age-old issue of "Beat the boss but the time out hit before we could lot the drops" by giving the five minute window to lot your drops, and the likelihood of being able to get from one boss to the next and still have enough time to fight and kill it in 5 minutes is fairly low unless you're a leprechaun and get back to back 9 floor jumps and super fast/easy floor reqs on both those floors, and the next floor, and the easiest boss of the ones available.

Is it perfect? no. But it's a lot better. I would say it'd also be wise to only apply the time extension to the first 5 20's floors, 20/40/60/80/100, to prevent the likelihood of some group getting insanely lucky and going on indefinitely (or at least until whatever the programmed last floor is, I want to say that they said it was 200 but I can't remember for sure).

Nyzul's always been about luck and being random, the only problem with neo-nyzul is that it's a step to far into being random.

Byrth's point is well-taken in that I have already started viewing Level 60 as the goal, and 80 or 100 as a pipe dream. 80 is possible with some great luck, but 100 takes the luck of the gods. Consider the following PERFECT scenario:

1 - 10 - 19 - 28 - 37 - 46 - 55 - 64 - 73 - 82 - 91 - 100

12 floors, including the final boss on Floor 100. This scenario requires you jump NINE floors every time, the odds of which are astronomical. Even in this best-case scenario, you still have to contend with the luck of not getting too many "Destroy all enemy" floors.

I agree with the people who say the bosses need to drop 5 or 10 minute extensions. This would at least make 80 or 100 challenging but based on your accomplishment within the event.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

You do realize the nerf to bst TH was huge yesterday.

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From what i've heard bst TH nerf didn't happen yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Byrth's point is well-taken in that I have already started viewing Level 60 as the goal, and 80 or 100 as a pipe dream. 80 is possible with some great luck, but 100 takes the luck of the gods. Consider the following PERFECT scenario:

1 - 10 - 19 - 28 - 37 - 46 - 55 - 64 - 73 - 82 - 91 - 100

12 floors, including the final boss on Floor 100. This scenario requires you jump NINE floors every time, the odds of which are astronomical. Even in this best-case scenario, you still have to contend with the luck of not getting too many "Destroy all enemy" floors.

I agree with the people who say the bosses need to drop 5 or 10 minute extensions. This would at least make 80 or 100 challenging but based on your accomplishment within the event.

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to get 9 floors 11 times (w/ 1 in 8 chance for each one)
is a 0.000000001% chance if the 2-9 floor is decide by a random genarator

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Byrth's point is well-taken in that I have already started viewing Level 60 as the goal, and 80 or 100 as a pipe dream. 80 is possible with some great luck, but 100 takes the luck of the gods. Consider the following PERFECT scenario:

1 - 10 - 19 - 28 - 37 - 46 - 55 - 64 - 73 - 82 - 91 - 100

12 floors, including the final boss on Floor 100. This scenario requires you jump NINE floors every time, the odds of which are astronomical. Even in this best-case scenario, you still have to contend with the luck of not getting too many "Destroy all enemy" floors.

I agree with the people who say the bosses need to drop 5 or 10 minute extensions. This would at least make 80 or 100 challenging but based on your accomplishment within the event.

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Let's see if I understood...
The maximum number of floors climbed (through ??? floor random) it's 9.
Every time you enter uncharted region you start from floor 1.

A group of player enter, clear the first floor. Then go to ??? floor and with luck jump to floor 10. Clear this floor and again jump to floor 19 (another climb through 9 floors). They are a lucky group and climb every time 9 floor.
To go to floor 100 (to get the best item) you have to go through a total of 12 floor to be completed, including the boss floor (if my math's is right).
12 floor in 30 minutes, and if you are lucky to get every time a jump of 9 floors. 2,5 minutes per floor.

Is it right?

Then I think I'll save my tag for assault and finally rank up to Captain.

And then multiply that by the 1/15 chance of your item dropping. There's the odds of the best-case scenario. (Yeah Jandel.) Frightening.

Yeah, my point was the PERFECT scenario still takes 12 floors and the luck of the gods. On your runs, if you aren't even able to pass at least TWELVE floors (even if you are only hopping 2-3 floors per hop), you have zero chance of ever reaching 100.

How many people would like to know IF the DEV are able to consistently get to Floor 100 without having to rely on pure LUCK like getting 11 x9 floor jump in a row with each floor in between a easy single lead kill or something?

Better yet, how many people would want to know if Camate has been able to consistently get to Floor 100 without relying on any GM hack or special warp?

I'll shut up if they can proof that there's a method to the madness and that it's up to us as players to figure what the method is.

A screenshot of a Floor 100 win by the Dev and/or any community rep is sufficiently enough for me (I'll trusted that they would not use any hacks or backdoor way to get to 100 that normal player does not have access to).

whats funny is that when they release Neo salvage, even less people will bother with random Nyzlul. Im personally saving my tags to rank up my mules lol (seriously hoping Neo salvage won't suck).

they also really need to remove the cap to assault ID tags... It was one thing back when they were added, but now with the way all the other similar systems work, it's just way to limiting for an otherwise amusing/fun/challenging/grind (depending on the individual assaults) system

Really, I'll never get SE.

Ok lets say that 60 is the average floor SE expected players to reach, my question becomes:

"How does this promote long-term hamster wheel play?" - We're pretty safe to assume these events are designed to be nothing more than large scale timesinks that are extruded until the dev team can hammer together something else, no?

In typical SE grindfests like Voidwatch you're given the chance at least access the monsters and then subsequently not get the drops when you get cells/logs/ores/fish after the battle ends. This creates a system of repetition where people adopt a mindset similar to that of a gambler where you'll get it "next time" where next time can be 1-300runs later.

But that isn't in this Nyzul.

For a casual player, the NQ or +1 gear might be appealing but with no demand for runs, you're going to simply ignore this content and access gear from more popular sources like Abyssea or Voidwatch. The NQ and +1s barely keep up with +2 Abyssean loot and in many cases are trash when lined up side by side. Even the most casual halfwit can see that a Rheic Salade is worse than an NQ Ravager's Mask.

What is the point of floor 20 again?

For the hardcore player the +2s are largely sidegrades to anyone up to date on voidwatch/dynamis+2/abyssea+2s which leaves us with the +3s and +4s which are the true improvements here... except they are damn near impossible to access. One bad floor can throw you off, cheats are going to become rampant if you truly want to access 80 anywhere close to often and 100 will be the rare treat for a group who has the stars at their control.

That's a pretty good point. If people find that the 60th floor is their ceiling, what will keep you going once you've gotten that gear?

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Originally Posted by detlef

That's a pretty good point. If people find that the 60th floor is their ceiling, what will keep you going once you've gotten that gear?

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Why do people buy lottery tickets?

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Why do people buy lottery tickets?

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To get furniture. Oh wait, you weren't talking about the Mog Bonanza.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Why do people buy lottery tickets?

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They want that 1 in 195 million shot at winning millions of dollars.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Why do people buy lottery tickets?

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Buying lottery tickets doesn't require 5 other people to tag along with you on your daily runs.

This isn't even Salvage comparable where you could access the kills every day either then bitch when Arrapago dropped nothing because it'd be a miracle to reach 80 with enough time to kill the boss and sort loot... assuming the loot even drops because we damn well know it isn't 100%. Oh and you need the correct pieces to drop, that'll be fun.

People are going to try regardless but from an event that was originally the casual-mans Salvage, the event is going to be dry due to the Sisyphean task that getting to 80 or 100 is and marks a step backwards for the event as a whole. But this is SE and sometimes I wonder how they get dressed to come to work in the morning with how convoluted everything must be.

There are limits to people's patience with tedious events as we've seen in the past. I really hate when events don't become popular because in this day and age it's ever more difficult to scrounge up people to do runs personally.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Why do people buy lottery tickets?

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Buying a ticket takes a minute and you are done. This event is 35+ min and is pretty aweful unless there is something we are missing in terms of floor progression.

You can be completely cock blocked by some of the mobs. We got a clear all floor 12 with Cronum Chariot that spams brain jack....I mean come on. There is also a rat that tosses bombs and runs around the zone(not too far) and is a total time sink and heaven forbid you randomly hit floor 20-40-60 on the way up and have to fight a boss that isn't hard but kills your clock.

They could have done this event much better and there would actually be the predicted congestion, the way its setup now most people will get tired of the randomness and stop doing Nyzul.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Buying a ticket takes a minute and you are done. This event is 35+ min and is pretty aweful unless there is something we are missing in terms of floor progression.

You can be completely cock blocked by some of the mobs. We got a clear all floor 12 with Cronum Chariot that spams brain jack....I mean come on. There is also a rat that tosses bombs and runs around the zone(not too far) and is a total time sink and heaven forbid you randomly hit floor 20-40-60 on the way up and have to fight a boss that isn't hard but kills your clock.

They could have done this event much better and there would actually be the predicted congestion, the way its setup now most people will get tired of the randomness and stop doing Nyzul.

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Don't get me wrong, I agree with both of you.

I think buying lottery tickets is silly, but it's the same basic mechanic. "You can't win if you don't play". Even if the odds of actually hitting floor 100, or hitting 80 with enough time to actually fight the boss, are astronomical, people will still shoot for it for a while at least.

Personally, I'm more curious about how we're "supposed" to do this. It will be interesting to figure out. If nothing else, greater efficiency and practice might yield more consistent floor 80 runs down the road. I will be disappointed if there's no trick to this, but it just came out so I'm willing to wait it out a bit. Neo-Dynamis, Abyssea, and and Einherjar all the got the same reception on release (though Ein was legitimately screwed and had to be patched).

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Don't get me wrong, I agree with both of you.

I think buying lottery tickets is silly, but it's the same basic mechanic. "You can't win if you don't play". Even if the odds of actually hitting floor 100, or hitting 80 with enough time to actually fight the boss, are astronomical, people will still shoot for it for a while at least.

Personally, I'm more curious about how we're "supposed" to do this. It will be interesting to figure out. If nothing else, greater efficiency and practice might yield more consistent floor 80 runs down the road. I will be disappointed if there's no trick to this, but it just came out so I'm willing to wait it out a bit. Neo-Dynamis, Abyssea, and and Einherjar all the got the same reception on release (though Ein was legitimately screwed and had to be patched).

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No one knew how the proc system worked with neo-dynamis, so everyone hated it until they knew how it worked. Abyssea sucked because no one had any clue what each light did and for 2 days it was misguided information and speculation, especially when we didnt have atma's until that system is figured out. If SE released the area and said what each important thing did in that zone, then it would be welcome in the beginning, not after the second week. So what's the gimmick here huh? Yeah there seems to be none but luck based. It's the same thing as the digging orichalum ore assault 5x in a row and never getting anything but worse, cause you know your odds of getting ore are 87.5% higher than reaching floor 100, killing boss, and sorting drops before getting tossed outside.

Searching Nyzul isle since 5 hours after update proved as many as 20something in zone, and about 80% of the time, there were none. Biggest flop of an update/new zone i've seen since i've been playing

I remember when they added NPC follows and the masive amount of players that were doing it, and that was fluff..this is supposed to be proper 99 endgame. Go read the test server feedback about Neo-nyzul and lol at the reps talking about all the worry they had over congestion lol

Kinda makes you wonder do Squeenix actually want to keep their playerbase or watch them quit one at a time ?

Way to go yet another half hearted event that has no brainpower behind it , I could tolerate it if it wasn't just a blatant cut and paste of Normal Nyzul with the added absurd luck factor - if this is what they've come up with so far , do we really want to see what's next for their "revamps"?

People defending SE's horrible system need to wake up. While those defending it may be happy in perle gear and lvl 40 when they get kicked out, the root of the problem lies in the fact that you absolutely cannot reach floor 100 without apradar, j0wait, clipper, or at the minimum, chocoflee and fillmode. When the majority of the playerbase figures out, if they havent already, that this is not average content, but content that caters to cheaters, they will stop doing it , if they havent already.

If there is no way to save progress or increase time/floors you ascend to, this entire event is a giant FU from SE that obviously rushed it through development. I'm not asking for a way to start at 95 every time, but given the less than 1% chance you even make it to floor 100, and the 30 minute wait, whats the point....

/sea all nyzul > oh 6 ppl inside, 6 that wont go too much longer.

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Originally Posted by Gippo

People defending SE's horrible system need to wake up. While those defending it may be happy in perle gear and lvl 40 when they get kicked out, the root of the problem lies in the fact that you absolutely cannot reach floor 100 without apradar, j0wait, clipper, or at the minimum, chocoflee and fillmode. When the majority of the playerbase figures out, if they havent already, that this is not average content, but content that caters to cheaters, they will stop doing it , if they havent already.

If there is no way to save progress or increase time/floors you ascend to, this entire event is a giant FU from SE that obviously rushed it through development. I'm not asking for a way to start at 95 every time, but given the less than 1% chance you even make it to floor 100, and the 30 minute wait, whats the point....

/sea all nyzul > oh 6 ppl inside, 6 that wont go too much longer.

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MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS

Funny part is, people will be running around with the HQ stuff soon and information will soon be revealed that will help us lol. So far from what I've seen, Is noone offering information on their progress and some of the new Nms. Maybe it was lucky, but I got to floor 37 and we exited and SAVED our progress to our discs. Next time I went, we got to floor 40 with 10 minutes remaining, and 2 floors were lamps that sucked up like 10 minutes due to unlucky orders. Maybe saving progress on higher floors and exiting to get credits can increase the amount of floors you climb to on each ???. Give it a week or 2 and record your progress. Stop complaining about how your never going to get this and it's a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Funny part is, people will be running around with the HQ stuff soon and information will soon be revealed that will help us lol. So far from what I've seen, Is noone offering information on their progress and some of the new Nms. Maybe it was lucky, but I got to floor 37 and we exited and SAVED our progress to our discs. Next time I went, we got to floor 40 with 10 minutes remaining, and 2 floors were lamps that sucked up like 10 minutes due to unlucky orders. Maybe saving progress on higher floors and exiting to get credits can increase the amount of floors you climb to on each ???. Give it a week or 2 and record your progress. Stop complaining about how your never going to get this and it's a waste of time.

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Maybe.

I've been to floor 60, Recorded, and Won, And my next run was a whooping 47. So far, No one has reported any significant difference With higher Recorded Disc.

My opinion on recording? The reason you can record on your Disc is they likely just not only full on Copy > Pasted the Event/Mobs/Floors/Objectives, but the Help-Text too, Including the "recorded" bit.

They forced everyone's disks to floor 100 completion on the test server and there was no difference.

Here are some stats/analysis for the interested: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109...=1#post5049491

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Originally Posted by Byrth

They forced everyone's disks to floor 100 completion on the test server and there was no difference.

Here are some stats/analysis for the interested: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109...=1#post5049491

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Even more depressing to see the impossibility in math form. Yet another event where Square dangles some awesome carrots, but keeps them at a ridiculously low drop rate (Voidwatch) or involves the equivalent of winning a Rank 1 prize in the Mog Bonanza (Neo Nyzul). Each update makes me miss the Abyssea dev team more and more.

Cool thanks lol. But aren't things on test server sometimes different? Like coruscanti working? lol

I wonder, if they gave you a 10 minute time extension for beating a boss floor (20/40/60/80/100) would it be sufficient enough to be able to climb to 100 consistently without luck?

I'd imagine then that you'd have to ??? to get close to a boss floor, then go up in singles though I'm unsure whether that is more viable than going gung-ho ??? and only doing a boss floor if you're 1-2 away...

edit:: and cap it at 30 minutes maximum

If they did? Sure. Did they? No. People have completed multiple boss floors (20 + 40) in a run and never seen a TE.

I have to agree with the vast majority here. I was amped for this content when they announced it. Not only would it provide me with a new outlet to obtain Alex for the Mythic, but it looked like it might be something a lot more fun.

I built a party that looked a little something like this:
NIN/WAR (Empy)
NIN/WAR (Empy)
MNK/WAR (Empy)
THF/NIN (Empy)
BRD/WHM (Very well geared)
WHM/RDM (very well geared)

Our first run was a test to see what the difficulty was. The objective was nothing more than observation.

Floor 1: All
*hit ???*
Floor 3: All
*hit ???*
Floor 11: Specific Enemy
*hit ???*
Floor 15: Lamps (Everyone hit the 1 lamp)
*hit ???*
Floor 21: Leader (Nothing special: Some Porgoggo)
*hit ???*
Floor 27: Lamps (Everyone hit the 1 lamp)
At this point we were at around 2:50 seconds remaining and were supposed to exit... but the WHM hit ???
*hit ???*
Floor 31: All

Result:
- We finished with about 13 seconds to spare and cleared Floor 31
- None of our ??? items appraised for anything... and the most impressive NM we killed was Megalobuggard
- My reward (as the armband) was 650 Tokens
- NMs drop Alex, but at a very low rate. We walked out with 3 of them.

Our remaining runs were spent ignoring floors 20-40-60-80 and trying to climb as high as possible. Of all of our 4 runs, we only made it as far as floor 57 before exiting.

4 runs isn't a lot, but I can say that from our experiences... the 2-9 floor jump is accurate. We never went higher than 9 in one hop.

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Originally Posted by Aleste

I wonder, if they gave you a 10 minute time extension for beating a boss floor (20/40/60/80/100) would it be sufficient enough to be able to climb to 100 consistently without luck?

I'd imagine then that you'd have to ??? to get close to a boss floor, then go up in singles though I'm unsure whether that is more viable than going gung-ho ??? and only doing a boss floor if you're 1-2 away...

edit:: and cap it at 30 minutes maximum

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This would be an awesome addition. Even five minutes would help immensely.

It would also give the lives and deaths of the bosses that live on floors 20 and 40 some meaning, since their equipment is near-useless for 95% and 90% of jobs respectively.

Come on, Development Bros. Dabargar the Stoic can't remain stoic in the face of his own pointless existence forever. He's going to turn to alcoholism or worse if things continue as they are. Help a troll out.

I'm going to have my guess and say that the random number generator is doubled when under the sphere effect from an afterglow 99 R/M/E lol. It just wouldn't surprise me now. Nothing would surprise me.

A price drop in Alex won't happen. The fact that the price of Dynamis currency dropped at all was nothing short of amazing... but even that didn't last. Now that the BSTs (at least on my server) have gotten everything they wanted out of Dynamis, they aren't farming... and yet the demand is still high for currency of all types.

If Alex started to drop in price, people would buy it up for their Mythics that are in progress already. This would then result in demand going back up... followed closely by a price hike once again.

In the past few days alone, I've watched the price of Alex go from 10k to 15k... and yet... people aren't doing more Salvage.

The prices are going up in anticipation of people suddenly saying "Ehh... I should maybe do a Mythic"

Mr. Matsui, we do not all enjoy gambling. We do not like random sh!t.
If you like luck based shit so much, I'll buy you a ticket to vegas. You can retire there and spend all your earnings.

just

please

GTFO of FFXI

Nyzul Isle II is a tragedy of wasted development effort. The game designers actually spent time on this crap when they could have been adding value somewhere else in the game.

Honestly, with way less effort in development, SE could have very easily just expanded the existing nyzul instead:
1. Extend nyzul to floors 101-200, which catered to lvl 99 players
2. Keep the event design completely the same between nyzul 1 and 2
3. Redo the token consumption for warping up floors so that floors 100+ are accessible
4. Redo temp items (allow receipt of temp items during the climb not just at entry)
6. Add alexandrite purse (cotton 20 to 100, linen 120-200)drops to all bosses and single drops from all mobs floors 101-200
7. Bosses on floors 120 to 200 will drop upgrade items to upgrade the base armor pieces from nyzul 1
8. All bosses (10 total) each can drop a key item that grants permanent bonuses specific to event

KIs: increase token rewards, reduce floor warp costs, increase frequency of tag regeneration and storage, start with certain temp items

I pulled all of this out of my ass and its already better than what SE did, and would have taken a fraction of the effort to implement.

Nyzul Isle II is a tragedy of wasted development effort

This is just plain sad all around. I actually feel bad for the dev team that had to create this piece of crap. I haven't seen more than one party in nyzul since the update, and most of the time there are 0. This is another WoE failure.

Not only did they screw up the event, but they also screwed up the alex drop rate BIG time. The event might actually be worth doing if the alex drop rate was increased by, I don't know, ten times?

I don't know how much more I can take of this crap.

Should just ignore the event and pretend like it never happened. Theyre not gonna have a dev respond and say oh my gosh we screwed up totally, we'll fix it for you right away masta. Theyre gonna work on xbox 360 crashing during vw and other events and they are shooting for march. the machine has been crashing since toau besieged and theyre just getting around to it now. Tells you where their priorities are people. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. I think an exec at SE came up with that motto way before it became popularized.

The 30 min cooldown makes a static group take 4 hours to use all 4 tags x.x A static group is one of the best ways to go for the win. Anyways the 30 min cooldown alone is enough for me to not want to go back to the new Nyzul Isle Uncharted... Good in thought but terrible in execution >.< Unless there is some unknown way to start on a higher floor or get more time I have given up hope of getting the HQ version of the brand new shiney items. :( I would even settle for an upgrade system (ie Trial of the Magians) for a lower quality piece.

Back in the days I got half way through my mercenary rank from doing Nyzul Isle alone, did the 1-100 climb three times for friends and still was finding the event enjoyable, it was long after I got every armor I wanted from it and mercing out quite a few too.
I've tried out this copy-paste Neo-Nyzul, looked at what we've gotten from the run (we've overshot boss floor with a 'lucky' +9), found out that we'll have to wait 30min to even retry.
Oh, an it seems armor graphics themselves are just a copy-paste.
I've looked at the probabilities of 6x relic/empy/mythic dream team consistently getting F80 (sidegrade rewards) and F100 (few rewards being improvement to what is currently available) and then 1/15 chance of what you want dropping and then 1/6 chance you will win cast lots.
Here's my impression of the biggest gem from this version update's basket:
Useless. Waste. Of. Time.

I did my first Uncharted run last night. I'd read everything here and on BG so my expectations were low. We pretty much went up ??? floors every time and planned to skip over at least the 20 boss. Unfortunately we were randomly transported to 20 where we fought a troll NM that dropped 2 armor that was autosorted due to it being terrible. We somehow managed to get 3 lamp floors which aren't difficult but still take time. Our random jumps were on the low side. We were on the 38th floor or something with <30 seconds left so we just exited. 500 tokens for our efforts. Lovely.

Also, one of the random NMs dropped a single Alexandrite which should solve the Alex shortage so long as the requirement is reduced from 30,000 to somewhere in the range of a dozen.